Draft "misses" by Buffalo

[davefan66]

We tried hard to move up for Big Ben, couldn’t make it happen.

 

As far as misses?  Every team has missed on great players, that’s how he draft works.  My question is, what makes anyone think great players on other teams would still be great on the Bills?  

 

Where would Jerry Hughes be today without the trade to the Bills?  Could have died on the vine with the Colts and out of the league forever.  Scheme,  coaches and rosters have a big part in a lot of players being great.  Some just are the best, some need help getting there.

[Artem Lipatov]

1) When I see succes of Mahomes and remember that Chiefs traded up with Buffalo for him, I feel some regret that he coud be our guy. But I am not sure he would be the same succes in Bills. And I still hope Allen will develop to the franchise QB. But Mahomes is already leader in passing among all elite star QBs

2) I am sick of draft where we spent 2 1st rounds on Sammy Watkins. When Bills traded up I thought it's about Mack. WR OBJ was in that draft also.

3) the draft in which we had #3 overall and took Dareus ((   Carolina and Denver who had #1 and #2 were in Super Bowl 2-3 years later. Cam was MVP of season. Von was MVP of SB. Dareus was bust. #4 was AJ Green. #9 was JJ Watt.  

[IgotBILLStopay]

11 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

See now this would be an interesting topic. Why isn’t Hughes Elite? He’s so darn close. There is just something missing I can’t quite peg it. His motor is relentless, he flashes elite playmaking, his size isn’t far off from Mack... he certainly has a edge to him. What’s missing 

Hughes outside speed and moves are elite. Only issues as far as I can see is that the Olineman can push Hughes so wide that the QB gets rid of the ball before Hughes gets there. I have always believed Hughes should do an inside move just to keep the Olineman honest but he just does not do it often.

[BillyWhiteShows]

11 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

This is a tired subject.  You can’t change the past no matter how much you whine about it.

 

Yep....if you wanna play “coulda, woulda, shoulda” we’d have 100+ pages

[gjv001]

12 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

You always hear about the players the Bills have passed on in recent (20) years. But how many of them would have even had success in the team that we had at the time? Biggest names we hear are

 

• Brady (Who was a diamond in the rough that every other team passed on 6 times)
• Gronk
• Could have traded up for Big Ben
• Russell Wilson 

Just to name a few. 

Talk about beating a dead horse.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Can I get my money back for my ‘Earthquake Enyart’ jersey?  

[Pbomb]

12 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

There are alot of them..we are one of the worst drafting teams in the league by a large margin with the amount of drafted players currently on the roster... but let’s hope we finally got our act together with this being the first full year with Beanes scouts in place 

The last 2 drafts look pretty good for the bills so far, hopefully with prolonged stability they can keep it going

[billsfan_34]

12 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

It's not as simple as we missed on player X. Team/scheme fit and opportunity are overlooked factors for certain players.  What happens to Brady's career if Bledsoe doesn't get hurt?

Teams that stick to BPA and tailor around those players tend to succeed in todays NFL. When teams reach for players to fulfill a position of need more times than not it implodes on them.

[Thriftygamer83]

Doug Whaley and Buddy Nix were abysmal failures as general managers.  Including as advisors as well to the Pegula’s Watson over Mack was one of the absolute failures of having an over promoted Whaley and a “genius” for Nix in his advisory capacity.  Watson is an average receivers who shows flashes otherwise completely replaceable in any system.  

11 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

The last 2 drafts look pretty good for the bills so far, hopefully with prolonged stability they can keep it going

Best players don’t come during the draft for us.  Filling in the holes and gaps it’s a fair assessment we’ve added to our roster and made out like bandits on cast offs and undrafted free agents.  Which means with confidence in that respect; loyalty for remaining and staying knowing McDermott will get what’s best our od them.  

[Steptide]

When we got Sammy Watkins, nobody in media thought he'd be a bust. Everyone said he was the best reciever in the draft. Local media criticized giving up a 1st rounder for him, but at the end of the day, everyone thought drafting Watkins was a great choice. Then, he ends up not being worth what it cost to get him. He was never that great and still isn't. My point is, you just don't know who's gonna be great and who's not. Yes the bills have had some really bad picks (Maybin) and I put that on the front office at the time, but Imo beane and McDermott have done pretty well with the draft and free agents in their time here 

[MrEpsYtown]

24 minutes ago, Steptide said:

When we got Sammy Watkins, nobody in media thought he'd be a bust. Everyone said he was the best reciever in the draft. Local media criticized giving up a 1st rounder for him, but at the end of the day, everyone thought drafting Watkins was a great choice. Then, he ends up not being worth what it cost to get him. He was never that great and still isn't. My point is, you just don't know who's gonna be great and who's not. Yes the bills have had some really bad picks (Maybin) and I put that on the front office at the time, but Imo beane and McDermott have done pretty well with the draft and free agents in their time here 

 

Yeah I think the issue Sammy thing is the idea of the trade up in a really good wide reciever draft class. They made a mistake on the player, but, as you said, that happens. I think the issue is more the thought process of making the move.  

 

Same with JP Losman. They reached on the 4th best quarterback in the draft and they forced the pick when they just could have waited a bit, or waited a year. Like I said, teh player did not work out, but the thought process on the trade up is the problem. 

 

Trading up for Zay Jones when Cooper Kupp, JuJu, Curtis Samuel, Dede Westbrook and Chris Godwin are still on the board. Forcing a move and a reach to get TJ Graham. Forcing the move up for Reggie Ragland when you could have gotten Nick Vigil, Blake Martinez or Joe Schobert later.Those are the issues to me. 

[wppete]

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

24 minutes ago, wppete said:

They say he sounds like Kermit, but that headband makes him look like Beaker...

[skibum]

Hindsight is always 20/20. I think it's only fair to judge bad picks if they also looked bad the day they were made; 'reaches' that didn't pan out.  Even the infamous Mike WIlliams pick seemed like a good decision on draft day.

 

The most egregious examples I can think of in recent Bills history were Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, CJ Spiller, Leodis McKelvin, and Sammy Watkins. None of these passed the smell test on draft day. And to be fair, only one of them (Maybin) was a complete and total bust - meaning he never provided anything of value to the team whatsoever. The rest were certainly over-drafted, but they at least contributed something on the field, and/or brought something back to the team in a trade later on. 

 

 

[DasNootz]

In recent memory - these are the 1st round picks that had me screaming at the TV.

 

Whitner of Ngata
Maybin over Orakpo
CJ Spiller

Moving up for Watkins in a WR deep draft

[Ramza86]

Drafts are a little more complex than that. Some of these players that succeed or fail....could be because of the team that drafted them. 

 

Would gronk be the same gronk on another roster? what if the team in question has a scheme that only uses their TEs to block?

 

I mean...nobody is going to draft a guy with a 6th round grade in the 1st round because they believe he is transcendent.

 

[Captain Hindsight]

14 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

 

...shoulda...coulda...woulda.....a/k/a hindsight is a beautiful thing, right bud?...............even before we indict clubs/their GM's, how about the highly paid "draft experts" first?.....1994 Kiper vs Tobin over the Albert vs Dilfer pick to which Tobin replied, "who the hell is Mel Kiper?"......or Kiper's drool about Tony Mandarich......"a behemoth....man among boyz...can't miss future HOF'er..."........the list goes on......

Aw thanks man

[ROCBillsBeliever]

9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

How has this obvious elaborate conspiracy eluded the press for so long?  

 

I cant belive no one has come forward on this league wide conspiracy...

Nobody... not even the NFL that put one particular ref (who wasn't calling holds against Hughes) on administrative leave... that didn't happen...

 

oh wait... 

 

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000996246/article/ref-accused-by-jerry-hughes-placed-on-admin-leave?networkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Daround-the-league%3Bteam%3Dbuf%3Bconf%3Dafc%3Bdvsn%3Dace%3Bplyr%3Djerry_hughes%3Bplyr%3Dtrenton_williams&p.ct=Around the NFL&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

 

Looks like the NFL doesn't admit it, outright, but when egregious behavior and blatant non-calls occur, even the NFL sometimes takes actions. If you believe that a ref calling a player the B word will consistently fairly judge their play... well... you must be a wonderful judge of character. 

 

[Buffalo03]

15 hours ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

You always hear about the players the Bills have passed on in recent (20) years. But how many of them would have even had success in the team that we had at the time? Biggest names we hear are

 

• Brady (Who was a diamond in the rough that every other team passed on 6 times)
• Gronk
• Could have traded up for Big Ben
• Russell Wilson 

Just to name a few. 

We did try to trade up for Big Ben. We called the Jags who were really high on Reggie Williams and were told by the Jags that if a "particular" player was there that they were taking them. If he wasn't they would make the deal. Williams was there, the Jags made the pick and we lost Big Ben for a major first round bust WR

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said:

Teams that stick to BPA and tailor around those players tend to succeed in todays NFL. When teams reach for players to fulfill a position of need more times than not it implodes on them.

I agree with that.  A lot of fans look at the needs and want to fill them all in the draft, doesn't work that way.  Unless you are looking for a QB, always go BPA.  Free agency is there to fill in the gaps.  Plus, a team can always trade to fill in other needs.  

[corta765]

15 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

Every story leading up to that draft was that the Bills did try to trade up for Roethlisberger. They wanted to move up from 13 to 9 for the Jags pic but Jacksonville decided to stay and picked a WR who ended up being a bust from Washington, the name escapes me. After the Steelers took him the Bills settled for Evans and eventually traded up for Losman. 

 

My understanding is that the Bills wouldn't give enough for Jax or Hou to match what they wanted. If Buffalo really wanted Big Ben they would've moved heaven and high water but Ralph at the time refused to do so non surprisingly. What's annoying is they were willing to trade a second first for Losman which at that point you might as well give what it would've taken for Big Ben.

 

One thing I like with Beane was his willingness to move for his pick of Allen, Rosen, or Jackson rather then just settling for whoever came out of it. Far too often it felt like we have been adverse to going after QB's and instead we play it safe.

11 hours ago, dubs said:

Applying the standard set in this thread, every single team has draft misses. Every one. It’s not something really unique in the NFL, when a guy drastically outplays his draft position and in any redo draft he’d be taken much earlier. 

 

Correct. The Bills issue has been they would draft 3 years worth of players for a coach and fire him forcing them to dump a lot of those players for the next coach to get his guys etc.. The lack of vision and continuity up until the last 2 years really bit the team in the butt.

 

In the end most teams hit on 1/3 of your picks which is why collecting picks typically is preferred for a building team as opposed to spending them. That's why the 2014 Sammy pick is so incredibly frustrating in hindsight because they could've had an extra 1st and 4th to work with while still getting a WR like a Mike Evans or ODB by not moving.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

22 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

Nobody... not even the NFL that put one particular ref (who wasn't calling holds against Hughes) on administrative leave... that didn't happen...

 

oh wait... 

 

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000996246/article/ref-accused-by-jerry-hughes-placed-on-admin-leave?networkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Daround-the-league%3Bteam%3Dbuf%3Bconf%3Dafc%3Bdvsn%3Dace%3Bplyr%3Djerry_hughes%3Bplyr%3Dtrenton_williams&p.ct=Around the NFL&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

 

Looks like the NFL doesn't admit it, outright, but when egregious behavior and blatant non-calls occur, even the NFL sometimes takes actions. If you believe that a ref calling a player the B word will consistently fairly judge their play... well... you must be a wonderful judge of character. 

 

 

I wonder if the nfl was in on 9/11 and the moon landing too? 

3 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Hughes outside speed and moves are elite. Only issues as far as I can see is that the Olineman can push Hughes so wide that the QB gets rid of the ball before Hughes gets there. I have always believed Hughes should do an inside move just to keep the Olineman honest but he just does not do it often.

 

I will look for this. Think you have something. Weak bull rush / inside game.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I wonder if the nfl was in on 9/11 and the moon landing too? 

 

So, you do believe that a ref who calls a player the B word can be an impartial judge of their play? Just admit that you believe this, and I'll stop arguing. You win, if this is what you believe. Enjoy your cake. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

I miss having Molson on draft, if that counts.

[McBean]

So many misses over the years. It’s just disgusting.

 

The one that really stings is how Ben went one spot ahead of us. We were rumored to love him. Why the heck did the FO not move up a couple spots to make damn sure he was a Bill?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

So, you do believe that a ref who calls a player the B word can be an impartial judge of their play? Just admit that you believe this, and I'll stop arguing. You win, if this is what you believe. Enjoy your cake. 

 

I do t buy one issue with 1 ref is representative of a league wide officiating conspiracy to marginalize an elite player into an average stater.

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Yeah I think the issue Sammy thing is the idea of the trade up in a really good wide reciever draft class. They made a mistake on the player, but, as you said, that happens. I think the issue is more the thought process of making the move.  

 

Same with JP Losman. They reached on the 4th best quarterback in the draft and they forced the pick when they just could have waited a bit, or waited a year. Like I said, teh player did not work out, but the thought process on the trade up is the problem. 

 

Trading up for Zay Jones when Cooper Kupp, JuJu, Curtis Samuel, Dede Westbrook and Chris Godwin are still on the board. Forcing a move and a reach to get TJ Graham. Forcing the move up for Reggie Ragland when you could have gotten Nick Vigil, Blake Martinez or Joe Schobert later.Those are the issues to me. 

Not as simple as you make it sound.  Say we drafted JuJu.  There's no guarantee that he does anything here.  Same with all of those players.  There are so many other factors that come into play.  Scheme, locker room vibe, leadership around the young players, talent around these players...the list goes on.  Finding the right fit is a crap shoot in the draft.  There isn't a team in the NFL that have perfect drafts year in and year out.  Underperforming players can be a product of their own personal problems as well.  It's just not that simple.  

 

Many players in FA go from one team to another and look far worse than they did for the previous team and vise versa.  

[ROCBillsBeliever]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I do t buy one issue with 1 ref is representative of a league wide officiating conspiracy to marginalize an elite player into an average stater.

 

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said leaguewide conspiracy. I watch every game, and every game, Hughes is held, repeatedly. There is no denying that.

 

Also, the NFL realized it cannot support refs who cannot make fair judgements, because they badmouth players, and turn their heads when they are blatantly being held. That's also been proven, by the NFL's decision to suspend that particular ref. 

 

If you want to call those two points a crazy conspiracy theory, you sure well can. I can call ranch the right thing to put on wings... 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by ROCBillsBeliever
I didn't pluralize "point"

[MrEpsYtown]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Not as simple as you make it sound.  Say we drafted JuJu.  There's no guarantee that he does anything here.  Same with all of those players.  There are so many other factors that come into play.  Scheme, locker room vibe, leadership around the young players, talent around these players...the list goes on.  Finding the right fit is a crap shoot in the draft.  There isn't a team in the NFL that have perfect drafts year in and year out.  Underperforming players can be a product of their own personal problems as well.  It's just not that simple.  

 

Many players in FA go from one team to another and look far worse than they did for the previous team and vise versa.  

 

All very valid points. But think you may have missed my point. I was trying to say the trade up for Zay was stupid and short sighted because there were like 5-6 comparable receivers on the board at the time of the trade up. They forced that pick when they didn't' need to and lost assets doing so. Same with the trade up for Sammy and Reggie Ragland, and Dion Dawkins as well. One could argue the Tremaine trade up is one as well. LVE, Evans etc were still on the board, but the Bills moved up for him because they felt they were getting a top ten talent who dropped a bit. I'm simply saying that that thought process doesn't make a ton of sense. You still have to develop the player but trading up to grab a guy who is similar in potential to 5-6 guys who are still on the board is a poor way to use assets. 

[ALLEN1QB]

Everyone calls Belicheat a genius how many times did he pass on Brady before drafting him? The draft is a crap shoot 50-50 at best. I do remember losing Big Ben to the Steelers. If I remember correctly they picked 1 or 2 spots ahead of us. Sure would have been worth trading up. Missing on him and Rogers set us back for many years. I think we got it right with Allen time will tell.    

[Nuncha]

Eric Flowers

Aaron Maybin

Mike Williams

CJ Spiller

Marshawn Lynch - good player after he left.  Didnt' want to be in Buffalo.  We got nothing in return.

Willis McGahee

JP Losman

2005 no pick because we moved UP to get Lostman. 

John McCargo

Marcell Dareus

EJ Manuel

Sammy Watkins 

Sammy Watkins

 

Yes Sammy twice becasue he cost us two number 1 picks.  Way too many misses here since 2000.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Azucho98

[RoyBatty is alive]

16 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I would've loved for us to have traded for Mack, the dude is a generational player. 

 

That's not even getting to how sickening it is that we could have drafted him and took Watkins instead. 

When the Bills traded up i thought, wow, they have balls and are going for Mack, i was thrilled, for about 20 seconds. Mack Manhandled Ohio State, it was pretty obvious he was something special.

[blacklabel]

You can apply this stuff to the 31 other teams that also didn't draft Brady, Gronk, Roethlisberger, Wilson, etc.

 

Brady was an afterthought to most teams, viewed as barely a backup. 

 

Other teams passed on Gronk for the same reason the Bills did, dude had a laundry list of injuries throughout college and was seen as a guy that would spend more time in the training room than on the field. 

 

Every other team in the league had Russell Wilson projected as a 4th round or later pick. Seattle was the only team that had him projected as a 3rd round guy. Wilson met with the Bills at the Combine, came to Buffalo for a pre-draft visit and word was, the Bills wanted to take him in the 4th, Seattle just beat everyone to it.

 

This kinda hindsight stuff is a little silly. You never know who's going to work out and who isn't when it comes to the draft. There have been a bunch of "sure thing" players that have been colossal busts and plenty of "this guy is a bust before he even plays a down" players who have turned into All-Pros. You just never know.

[PatsFanNH]

Gronk - had back issues I do believe a lot of teams were scared off by that

 

Brady — Pats got lucky.. NO one expected him be well Brady lol

 

pats have missed plenty on drafts.. but it is usually the trading of a pick for a player stands out to me like:

 

Moss - 4th round pick (steal)

Welker - 2nd and a 7th rounder (also Steal)

 

as examples some dont work like

 

Haynesworth - 5th rounder (he wasn’t worth a bag of used umm socks)

[mannc]

1 hour ago, McBean said:

 

 

The one that really stings is how Ben went one spot ahead of us. We were rumored to love him. Why the heck did the FO not move up a couple spots to make damn sure he was a Bill?

Allegedly, they tried.  Think about the Texans and the Jags, though.  Both were at least as QB-deprived as Buffalo and they passed on Roethlisberger for a journeyman-caliber CB and WR, respectively.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, ROCBillsBeliever said:

 

You are putting words in my mouth. I never said leaguewide conspiracy. I watch every game, and every game, Hughes is held, repeatedly. There is no denying that.

 

Also, the NFL realized it cannot support refs who cannot make fair judgements, because they badmouth players, and turn their heads when they are blatantly being held. That's also been proven, by the NFL's decision to suspend that particular ref. 

 

If you want to call those two points a crazy conspiracy theory, you sure well can. I can call ranch the right thing to put on wings... 

 

 

Slow your roll brah...  

 

I pontificated how interesting the topic about Hughes being so close to elite was, how he’s just lacking something to push him over the top and sons posters said suggest lack of holding calls. 

 

I’m saying that doesn’t wash.

 

Are you Following the debate or just looking to argue to justify your irrational need to ranch up perfectly good wings? 

 

 

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, Azucho98 said:

Eric Flowers

Aaron Maybin

Mike Williams

CJ Spiller

Marshawn Lynch - good player after he left.  Didnt' want to be in Buffalo.  We got nothing in return.

Willis McGahee

JP Losman

2005 no pick because we moved UP to get Lostman. 

John McCargo

Marcell Dareus

EJ Manuel

Sammy Watkins 

Sammy Watkins

 

Yes Sammy twice becasue he cost us two number 1 picks.  Way too many misses here since 2000.

Sammy didn't cost us 2 number 1 picks. We just used our pick the year we drafted Sammy to move up. We didn't lose the pick. The only number 1 pick we lost was the following year when we gave up a 2015 first rounder which is only one pick we actually gave up

Edited December 21, 2018 by Buffalo03

[billsfan_34]

4 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

I agree with that.  A lot of fans look at the needs and want to fill them all in the draft, doesn't work that way.  Unless you are looking for a QB, always go BPA.  Free agency is there to fill in the gaps.  Plus, a team can always trade to fill in other needs.  

Exactly- and by going BPA your not just slapping a band aid on things. 

[Freddie's Dead]

16 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Everyone gets held, but we think a league wide conspiracy against Jerry Hughes is the thing? 

 

I have never seen anyone get held as much as Jerry Hughes, with no calls.

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Slow your roll brah...  

 

I pontificated how interesting the topic about Hughes being so close to elite was, how he’s just lacking something to push him over the top and sons posters said suggest lack of holding calls. 

 

I’m saying that doesn’t wash.

 

Are you Following the debate or just looking to argue to justify your irrational need to ranch up perfectly good wings? 

 

 

Easy man, we're all bills fans, no need to throw ranch at the guy.  I think his point is valid that Jerry's poor rep with officials doesn't do him any favor when it comes to holding calls.  These refs are human too.