BillsFan130 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: I can’t with good conscience call a hall of fame player like larry fitzgerald “awful” but yes, he’s a marginal guy at this point. Still better than what Allen has? Sure, but not by that much. And I like Kirk as well but like Gunner said he drops the ball A LOT. Again, similar to our situation. Which was my point. Fair enough. I’m nitpicking with your post. All im saying is I still think FItz is still descent. I don’t disagree with what else you said 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Allen does this a lot and I love it. I will sacrifice stupid stats like completion % if we develop a vertical passing game that takes advantage of the kid’s arm. I think they need to be a little careful with it. They should absolutely be calling 5 or 6 deep shots a game. But at one point in the 3rd today they got carried away with it and it was basically every other play. We still need to be effficient. The first 10 or 12 passes Josh was playing the intermediate passing game and was on point. That is ultimately what wins sustainably in the NFL and then you sprinkle your deep shots in to take advantage of his arm. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Honestly, I think every rookie QB is right where they should be. If all goes well this looks like one of the best QB classes in quite some time. The next 15 years should be fun if all of them can stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I figured Allen was wildly inaccurate based on scouting and would miss dudes by 10 yards, but he’s been solid. Even several of his misses are fingertips and *could* be caught. my only concern right now is that every week he settles into 50% completions. That has to get better next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I've watched more Cardinals games than usual and Rosen has shown some flashes of his pre draft stock with flawless footwork, stepping into the pocket when it's there, manipulating the defense, and very accurate when not rushed. The problem is the o-line is so bad and their WR's have trouble getting separation. Fitz is his best receiver but he's not as good as he once was. Kirk has been disappointing. Their pass protection is at least as bad as ours and Rosen isn't a scrambler like Josh is. It's just too early to tell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) I admit, on draft night my initial reaction was, "Oh no, they took the wrong Josh!" But I have since seen the error of my ways and am all in on this kid. Had they taken Rosen, I guarantee the dude woulda been sidelined with a season ending injury by week four given this OL. Rosen doesn't have the mobility Allen has in the slightest. It's scary how fast the dude is, he can get that 6'5", 240 lb. frame truckin' when he wants to. Yeah, Allen's numbers don't look super but he hasn't gotten a lot of help. I saw at least five dropped balls today. Was the ball placement perfect? No, but these were passes that hit these guys in the hands and they dropped it. I'd love to know Allen's adjusted completion rate where they take away drops and throwaways. Allen just has that stuff that tells you, "He's gonna make a play." Love watching this team grow right now but McBeane has a lot of work to do in the off-season to help the kid out. Edited December 16, 2018 by blacklabel 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I've watched more Cardinals games than usual and Rosen has shown some flashes of his pre draft stock with flawless footwork, stepping into the pocket when it's there, manipulating the defense, and very accurate when not rushed. The problem is the o-line is so bad and their WR's have trouble getting separation. Fitz is his best receiver but he's not as good as he once was. Kirk has been disappointing. Their pass protection is at least as bad as ours and Rosen isn't a scrambler like Josh is. It's just too early to tell. ^this is so measured and so on-point I can’t ? it enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I wanted Josh Rosen bad on the Bills going into the draft. Once Allen was picked, I of course deferred to the process, and I'm glad I did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I've watched more Cardinals games than usual and Rosen has shown some flashes of his pre draft stock with flawless footwork, stepping into the pocket when it's there, manipulating the defense, and very accurate when not rushed. The problem is the o-line is so bad and their WR's have trouble getting separation. Fitz is his best receiver but he's not as good as he once was. Kirk has been disappointing. Their pass protection is at least as bad as ours and Rosen isn't a scrambler like Josh is. It's just too early to tell. I have watched every single Cardinals game and not just the offensive plays but the whole games to get the context. You are absolutely 100% right. He has made some awful mistakes and he is never going to be as able to make up for the supporting cast as Josh Allen because he doesn't have that mobility. But he has shown some real flashes in there too. They need to put talent around him and they desperately need better coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I liked Rosen better too at the time and was wrong. Allen is an amazing prospect who could be HOF level and can make plays out of nothing. Rosen is a smart, efficient passer who might be able to succeed with a very good supporting cast if he's lucky. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, Rico said: I wanted Josh Rosen bad on the Bills going into the draft. Once Allen was picked, I of course deferred to the process, and I'm glad I did. The process is much better than the dufus which was the whaley era montra. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 30 minutes ago, zow2 said: I figured Allen was wildly inaccurate based on scouting and would miss dudes by 10 yards, but he’s been solid. Even several of his misses are fingertips and *could* be caught. my only concern right now is that every week he settles into 50% completions. That has to get better next year It will with improved WR & TE play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I have watched very little Right Josh games because I could not care less about Arizona. Only game I saw was on TNF and he looked like Peterman. I’m sure he’ll improve. I’m more surprised he lasted this long without getting injured. That was the big knock, no? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trogdor said: Speaking of hills to die on, do you ever add anything of substance or just attack other people's opinions? Anyone being objective would say Allen looks good, but that the Cardinals are the biggest mess in football. It's amazing that any negative Allen has is his supporting cast but with Rosen It's all his fault. You can really like Allen's progress and dislike the comparison. Rosen was supposed to be the pro-ready QB. I just find it ironic he is performing the worst out of all the rookies and more excuses are made for him than anyone. The pre-draft narrative with Rosen was that he would step right in and produce, and the only worry was that he had already reached his ceiling. Turns out he has a ton of work to do and maybe being a statue in the pocket doesn't translate in the NFL. Edited December 16, 2018 by HappyDays 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 hour ago, TigerJ said: Do we really need a new thread saying the same thing after every Bills win? And I like Josh Allen. We also need a pro-Sam Darnold thread every time he does something good. Or even reasonably o.k. And an accompanying joke thread about how Sam Darnold caused a field goal to be missed, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Andy1 said: JA averaged over 15 yds per completion today. That is huge! Probably tops in the league this week. And if Zay and Deonte come up with those "catchable" balls Josh has 300 yards. The problem is not Allen. It's our embarrassing wrs and zero TE's.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I have watched very little Right Josh games because I could not care less about Arizona. Only game I saw was on TNF and he looked like Peterman. I’m sure he’ll improve. I’m more surprised he lasted this long without getting injured. That was the big knock, no? No, his big knock was that he was a douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 If you put Josh Allen on the Steelers right now I have no doubt that he would be rookie of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I am happy with how Josh Allen looks and I was very pleased with him today. But Josh Rosen is on the biggest mess of a franchise in the NFL with very little talent and a coach a million miles out of his depth. And he has played well in parts. Way too early to write him off. For full disclosure, you basically had a meltdown when the bills took Allen over Rosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, SWATeam said: For full disclosure, you basically had a meltdown when the bills took Allen over Rosen. A meltdown? Hmmm. No. I would have picked Rosen. I have never hidden that. I didn't like Allen's chances, I am pleased he looks much better than I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: A meltdown? Hmmm. No. I would have picked Rosen. I have never hidden that. I didn't like Allen's chances, I am pleased he looks much better than I expected. Yes, it was a meltdown. I was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, SWATeam said: Yes, it was a meltdown. I was here. No it wasn't. Stop being an idiot. I said I thought it was the wrong pick. I wasn't one of the people starting threads about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No it wasn't. Stop being an idiot. I said I thought it was the wrong pick. I wasn't one of the people starting threads about it. Ok, we could argue about semantics but you were very vocal about it being the wrong pick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, SWATeam said: Ok, we could argue about semantics but you were very vocal about it being the wrong pick. My thoughts are at the below. I said it was the wrong pick but if you consider that even close to a meltdown then I'll have some of what you are drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Big congrats to the other Josh, Josh Johnson with the big win today! If he started in London 2015, the drought may have been over 2 years earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: My thoughts are at the below. I said it was the wrong pick but if you consider that even close to a meltdown then I'll have some of what you are drinking. I don’t see anything that says meltdown to me i do hope next year you have to change your sig line ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: I don’t see anything that says meltdown to me i do hope next year you have to change your sig line ? Haha me too John. I thought he was really, really good today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Haha me too John. I thought he was really, really good today. You know I respect your opinion on this stuff who should we take in this next draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: My thoughts are at the below. I said it was the wrong pick but if you consider that even close to a meltdown then I'll have some of what you are drinking. It’s not a big deal, but I have a good memory for this stuff. I’m specifically remembering the shout box on draft night. You had a tantrum. It’s ok, we all get stuff wrong. Just own it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: i do hope next year you have to change your sig line ? Dumb question: how are you seeing signatures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I think people are overall more pleased with this garbage season over last years playoff season. Weird ha? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SWATeam said: It’s not a big deal, but I have a good memory for this stuff. I’m specifically remembering the shout box on draft night. You had a tantrum. It’s ok, we all get stuff wrong. Just own it. I always own it when I am wrong. I hope Josh makes me eat my words and I have already said he is playing better than I feared. Edited December 17, 2018 by GunnerBill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: I always own it when I am wrong. I hope Josh makes me eat my words And I appreciate your contributions. Just wanted to point that out. I have had my share of misses myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: I think people are overall more pleased with this garbage season over last years playoff season. Weird ha? Because by the end of last year Tyrod proved we didn't have a franchise QB, and by the end of this year it's starting to look like we might. Which is far more important than one year sneaking into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderbill Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: My thoughts are at the below. I said it was the wrong pick but if you consider that even close to a meltdown then I'll have some of what you are drinking. Green Lightnings reaction was common in the threads following the draft and continued till the Vikings game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, SWATeam said: It’s not a big deal, but I have a good memory for this stuff. I’m specifically remembering the shout box on draft night. You had a tantrum. It’s ok, we all get stuff wrong. Just own it. I also had a tantrum in my living room. I didn’t want Allen. But as soon as they picked him, I did my best to keep an open mind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 1 hour ago, zow2 said: I figured Allen was wildly inaccurate based on scouting and would miss dudes by 10 yards, but he’s been solid. Even several of his misses are fingertips and *could* be caught. my only concern right now is that every week he settles into 50% completions. That has to get better next year Don't get hung up on completion percentage, it is a truly misleading stat. Does not take into account dropped passes, or times when the best play is to throw it away. On the flip side, there are guys with ridiculous completion percentages and QB ratings who will without fail take the easy dump off pass 4-6 yards short of the sticks on every 3 and long play. Sure they completed the pass - meaningless in the grand scheme of the game as you have to trot out your punting unit. Rather have someone with the stones to try to get the first down or more. Best thing you can do is see if Allen is making passes he missed the week before, is he throwing it away when he should, is he getting it into his WRs hands, is he pushing it down the field to move the chains... work in progress folks, but I am more stoked by this kid's play than I have been for a Bills QB in a long time and I am going to allow myself to have a bit of hope for this team. And sure, I may end up crying in my beer - been there done that enough, but why not enjoy the ride a bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBean Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Azucho98 said: To all the draft analysts out there that said the Bills made a mistake - eat crow. We picked the right Josh. And I absolutely LOVE it. Jeremy White and Ledyard in basement crying on each other’s shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Jasovon said: I had Rosen as my top guy and Allen as my second. Rosen looks awful, yes he has no talent around him but Allen makes guys around him better. Goff looked awfulhis first year. Im not a Rosen fan but my concerns are if he can keep his focus on football and can stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I didn't want Rosen, part of the issue was the history of concussions, and part as a result of his attitude based on some of the things I've read. Seemed sort of arrogant to me, i wondered how that would play out on the field, but had he been our selection that would have been fine. To flip that around a bit, I look forward to watching JA play. His enthusiasm is infectious (to me anyway, i know some posters here got the JA flu shot and dont see it that way), he lays it all on the line and seems to be improving as he goes. His interaction with his teammates seems excellent, he shows great leadership skills and seems to love the game. I wish the other Josh no ill will, and if he turns out to be a gelreat player and this Josh does not, well, sometimes that happens. For now though, JA is the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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