Buffalo picked the right Josh

[GunnerBill]

The story today does seem to be that Wilkes is out in Arizona. Which gives Josh Rosen a much better chance of turning his career around.

[Chicken Boo]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:56 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Arizona as of last week had had more drops than Buffalo. 

 

Nonsense.  Josh Allen is the only QB in the NFL whose receivers drop passes.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It's always amusing to see the Rosen fan club show up to support THEIR QB.

 

 

[WhyteDwarf]

8 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Nonsense.  Josh Allen is the only QB in the NFL whose receivers drop passes.

 

That's what I was told

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

It's always amusing to see the Rosen fan club show up to support THEIR QB.

 

 

My QB is whoever QBs the Bills - for good or bad - whether I like them (Fitz) or not (Tyrod). I know it fits the narrative to portray anyone who wanted one of the other pre-draft as people who are upset that Allen is succeeding and maybe some are, but I'm not. I couldn't be happier. I have opinions and I express them on this board. I don't hold back or follow the crowd or try and fit in with any consensus. They are my own opinions based on what I watch. I didn't like Josh Allen pre-draft, I liked all the others better. He was my QB6 and yes, Rosen was my QB1. I'm absolutely delighted to be wrong because it means the Bills have the chance to be really good.

[tumaro02]

On 12/17/2018 at 12:51 AM, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Wtf is this? We're crowning Allen off a 13/26 204 yard performance. I'm a fan of the Bills, not Allen. It's not begrudgingly, it's not in silence. You make it into this weird personal thing.

 

He has been better than I thought he'd be, he's showing potential. Better than I thought. That said, it's not saying much. That stat line and 14 points vs a bad team isn't proving much at all to me. I hope he ends up the best, because he's a Bill.

 

That post seems a bit backwards coming from a Bills fan.

 

Fans are delusional at this point. Did anyone hear the postgame show? How many of you called?

 

Bulldog kept saying how he thought Allen played good and all everyone did was call in and say how he said Allen was sucking. It was a joke. 

Bulldog DID say he thought Allen played good but since he was drafted he has been critical of Allen, the Bills, McD and everyone else associated with pick. Allen was not his choice. We have heard his "attitude" non stop since April. This is why many called to call him out. The fans are correct. This is NOT a joke. Bulldog opens his mouth true, but the fans HEAR what he is saying an he just doesn't get the backlash, nor do you.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, tumaro02 said:

Bulldog DID say he thought Allen played good but since he was drafted he has been critical of Allen, the Bills, McD and everyone else associated with pick. Allen was not his choice. We have heard his "attitude" non stop since April. This is why many called to call him out. The fans are correct. This is NOT a joke. Bulldog opens his mouth true, but the fans HEAR what he is saying an he just doesn't get the backlash, nor do you.

Same thing on this very board. The same vocal wrong-joshers have been complaining about the pick since april, and it's about time they're shown the same courtesy in return.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

The story today does seem to be that Wilkes is out in Arizona. Which gives Josh Rosen a much better chance of turning his career around.

Perhaps. Or it could also be the start of a string of coaching turnover for him, which will not be easy in and of itself, as we all know stability is one of the key ingredients to long term success sustainability. Blowing everything up and starting over is usually not conducive to that, as a new system has be taught, learned, etc. That said, so far in Cleveland those sorts of changes were necessary and are paying off for said rookie. Be interesting to see where Rosen goes from here.  

35 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Same thing on this very board. The same vocal wrong-joshers have been complaining about the pick since april, and it's about time they're shown the same courtesy in return.

 

Hard to find them right now though Joe, so many have gone AWOL back to their trolling safe spaces underneath bridges and overpasses, leaving nary a trace of bread crumbs to follow--I for one will enjoy the quieter/more sane moments here as a result!  

[oldmanfan]

It's too early to know about Rosen or Allen or any of these rookies.  But here's my question:  why do we insist on making comparisons?  Going into the draft one could have made a case for any of the 5 guys drafted in the first round, and history tells us drafting a Qb round 1 gives you around a 50:50 shot at being right.  So we took Allen.  So far he looks like he might have the goods, but we'll see.  If he winds up not being the guy, and say Rosen does, I won't be sitting here crucifying management because of the pick, nor would I crow over it if Allen succeeds and Rosen doesn't.  Same with Mahomes; no one (if they're being honest) saw what was coming with him, many saw a kid coming out of a program that had not produced any solid NFL Qbs and with a lot of footwork issues.

 

You take your shot, and you see what happens.  You scout the best you can and make the best decision you can.  And if GMs make more wrong decisions that right, they lose their jobs.  No reason to continually beat the decisions to death IMHO.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Mountain Man said:

Right now it doesn't matter. No one cares about his performances his year. Like Allen he has shown moments of potential and moments of rookie stupidity.

 

You don't judge players after 1 year

 

Stop just stop forcing words in my mouth when saying after 1 year. It's like trying to talk to a robot at this point lol

[dave mcbride]

23 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sadly I agree and sadly I expect they will at least start 2019 with Wilkes as Head Coach. He is totally, utterly, inescapably, out of his depth. He should be fired.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/17/report-steve-wilks-firing-seems-a-foregone-conclusion/

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/17/report-steve-wilks-firing-seems-a-foregone-conclusion/

 

 

Yea I have seen that today. It is the right decision as well. I can only think of four NFL Head Coaches in my 16 years watching the NFL that I'd have fired after one year: Shurmer (Browns), Ryan (Bills), Joseph (Broncos), Wilks (Cardinals). He might be the worst of the four.

[BillsfanAZ]

15 hours ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

I think he will be extremely polarizing if his game remains relatively similar to how it has been his college and rookie season in the NFL.

 

There is enough mediocrity in this league that the type of QB Allen is shaping up to be, a BOOM/BUSTER, that with a good defense you will win your fair amount of games and at least be close enough in 4th Quarters where it’s coin flip time.  So it’s importent for Buffalo to maintain that defense with Allen.  (He’s going to have to prove he can be a gunslinger of the surgeon variety that can come back from 2-3 scores down before I beleive it.)

 

But I suspect that when you look at Box scores Allen’s will look very similar to his entire career so far.  Sub 60% completion and not many 300 yard games and hovering on the low end of points scored.  THAT is when the fun debates and screaming at each other will really begin!

I think you are holding the bar awfully high for Allen. He needs to come back from 2-3 scores down? You know it takes more than a QB to make that happen. I was curious about this so I tried to do a quick search. Brady and Romo lead the way with 4th quarter comebacks. Those are the only two QB's that are over 30% of the time. Average points to come back from.....7.5. Not sure how accurate this is but here is the link...  

 

[Logic]

Just wanted to chime in and add myself to the long list of people who were disappointed on draft night when the sentence "the Buffalo Bills select Josh..." ended with the word "Allen" rather than "Rosen".

So far -- and it is EXTREMELY EARLY to be talking this way -- I appear to have been wrong.

Allen has been better than Rosen in their respective rookie years, there's no doubt about it.

Both guys have bad o-lines and suspect "weaponry". The key difference is that Allen has the athleticism, toughness, and improvisational ability to overcome this. Rosen does not.

[Talley56]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:27 PM, Bangarang said:

Hopefully. Still too soon to say definitively 

^^ This, while I haven’t been hesitant to call out bad throws from him I like how Allen has progressed but way too soon to say who the best is definitely.  Throughout 2012 an argument could have been made that RG3 was the better pick than Luck.

[billsfan89]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

 

McKenzie is a slot wide receiver. That’s not a gadget.

 

If I am evaluating this team I am not going to be comfortable with only acquiring one receiver and then leaning on Zay, Foster, and Mac. Mac is a nice player but I don't look at him as a top 3 caliber WR. He is a player that you bring in for gadget plays or if a top 3 WR is hurt. He is a good player and adds depth but I don't look at him and think he is good enough to be a top 3 WR. Foster to me is looking like he can be a top 3 WR and Zay flashes at times the ability to be a top 3 WR. I think it would be too dangerous to just add a Tyrell Williams and think Foster, Zay, and Mac can hold down the WR2 and WR3 positions. I would rather draft a WR in round 2 to be the heir apparent to Williams and push Zay to beat him out. 

[thebandit27]

16 hours ago, Doc said:

 

McKenzie is a slot wide receiver. That’s not a gadget.

 

That's fine, but I have two thoughts on this:

 

I would treat him like Jakeem Grant, who Miami uses as a gadget player.  That shouldn't sound like a diss either; that's the same role that Tarik Cohen has in Chicago.  He's really small, so you don't want him taking 40+ snaps per game.

 

It would be a bad decision to go into the season thinking that McKenzie playing 16 games next year is a foregone conclusion. Best bet is to add a WR1 and find a complementary slot option.  You don't want to be in a situation where your only slot threat twists and ankle and you don't have another guy to play that spot.

 

I'd rather have a guy like McKenzie in a Cohen/Grant "gadget" role and have the flexibility to use him as my primary slot WR when I want/need to than having my hand forced.

 

Just my 1 cent.

[Zerovoltz]

Josh just needs a better Oline, better weaponry, more experience...etc....This could apply to BOTH josh's.  I would say that the Josh who is athletic and can run is better than the Josh that can't.....but if both josh's get a line and some weapons and one Josh is completing 65% or better of his passes an the other Josh is only completing 55% or so....then that Josh will liekly pass the other Josh in the race to see who got the best Josh.  Still hard to say.  I predicted both would be busts...won't really be able to call it until sometime next year at the earliest.

[Chandler#81]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:40 PM, RobbRiddick said:

There was a point earlier in the season where I was worried about Allen as he didn't seem to be getting it at all. Since he came back from injury I've become more and more confident in him. Still has a way to go but I think with an extra off season of work, plus a revamped offense around him he could be ***** deadly next season!

 

While I disagree with your take completely, it’s worth noting the kid not only hasn’t really had a single day off in what will be the biggest, most impactful 18 months of his life. Full season at Wyoming, 2 Bowl Games, Outrageous pre-Draft Meat Market process, the Draft, instantly becoming the hopes of an entire teams’ fandom, moving his entire life to a new city with overwhelming expectations, insane pressure from the Press, mini/Training camp, PreSeason, Starting early, injury, learning new things about the position daily he already thought he excelled at and becoming a huge, national celebrity. That’s way more than any of us will do in a full lifetime. Did he also get engaged?? 

  

Anyway, Lighten Up, Francis. After a much deserved off-season rest, going forward, we surround him with talent & skill to maximize his other-worldly talent.

[Mountain Man]

15 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Stop just stop forcing words in my mouth when saying after 1 year. It's like trying to talk to a robot at this point lol

If you are making a judgement now comparing Allen Vs Rosen IT IS after 1 year.

[billsredneck1]

i think both will improve a lot over the next year.  i'm glad we got allen. i heard however, that rosen has either tied or passed peterman for pick sixes....

and nate got tarred and feathered. hmmmm

[GunnerBill]

17 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That's fine, but I have two thoughts on this:

 

I would treat him like Jakeem Grant, who Miami uses as a gadget player.  That shouldn't sound like a diss either; that's the same role that Tarik Cohen has in Chicago.  He's really small, so you don't want him taking 40+ snaps per game.

 

It would be a bad decision to go into the season thinking that McKenzie playing 16 games next year is a foregone conclusion. Best bet is to add a WR1 and find a complementary slot option.  You don't want to be in a situation where your only slot threat twists and ankle and you don't have another guy to play that spot.

 

I'd rather have a guy like McKenzie in a Cohen/Grant "gadget" role and have the flexibility to use him as my primary slot WR when I want/need to than having my hand forced.

 

Just my 1 cent.

 

Agree. The way Kyle Shanahan used Taylor Gabriel is how I described it. He played in the slot, caught bubble screens, but he'd also line up at running back and catch passes out of the backfield and they'd run sweeps, reverses, even the odd bit of traditional stretch zone with him.

 

My suggestions elsewhere was sign Thomas if Houston cut him. Draft a guy early and have your two primary personnel groups as:

Thomas and rookie outside with McKenzie in the slot; or

Rookie and Foster outside with DT playing inside as a big slot.

 

That way you are essentially asking McKenzie and Foster to split the 3rd starting job. Doesn't mean I wouldn't try and add complimentary slot guy too if I could but finding someone impactful for a fair and reasonable price might be tricky.

[Doc]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:32 AM, GunnerBill said:

The story today does seem to be that Wilkes is out in Arizona. Which gives Josh Rosen a much better chance of turning his career around.

 

How so?  Wilkes was a defensive coach.  And someone was telling me that they had Byron Leftwich, who as supposed to be some sort of QB guru.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

How so?  Wilkes was a defensive coach.  And someone was telling me that they had Byron Leftwich, who as supposed to be some sort of QB guru.

 

Wilks is hopeless, out of his depth and as a result the team looks badly coached, badly prepared and an absolute mess. That affects all elements of a team from top to bottom and you only have to watch a single Arizona game to see it. 

 

As for Leftwich - there is nothing to say whether he is good or bad. The one thing for sure is it isn't his offense, it is Mike McCoy's. That's right - three firings in three years - that Mike McCoy. When teams fire offensive coordinators in season there are only very minor tweaks a new coordinator can make to a playbook because there simply isn't time to scrap it and start again. It was the same for Anthony Lynn here. It was Greg Roman's offense, Lynn improved things by having fewer plays in the playbook each week and being a more decisive play caller. It wasn't his offense though.

 

Look, Josh Rosen needs to play better. No question about it. But if you think the coaching in Arizona has been anything other than the absolute worst in the league I think you should watch them some more. Clown show. I am not saying a change in coaching WILL make Rosen better, I am saying with THIS coaching he has no chance.