Josh is rough around the edges but man kid has potential

[Ned Kelly]

Well done Josh ⚡. Congratulations on the first start.

Onwards and upwards ?

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Just look at where Bortles is now, with a strong team around him. His first few years in the league, people were calling him a bust. 

 

Allen is a lot more talented than Bortles. Give him a good supporting cast, and it's obvious he will flourish. 

I agree with the rest of the comment, but I can't agree with this - Bortles' problem never was lack of talent. Allen was noted as having more pure arm strength, but Bortles really had it all as far as the athletic talent needed in a QB. Mayock compared him to Big Ben coming out of college.

[stony]

What I expected.  Take the good with the bad.  The kid is tough, gotta respect that.  

 

I do think his accuracy will be an issue his entire career.  Probably the only worrying thing from today.  

[Victory Formation]

39 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Serious question: Josh Allen has been compared to many other recent high draft picks, but one of the most common (and, to my mind, the best) comparisons is to Blake Bortles. If Josh Allen = Bortles v. 2.0, are you happy with that scenario? Do the Bills have the patience for that scenario to play out? The fans?

I liken him to Joe Flacco as a passer with Big Ben's mobility. He should be an above average passer and long-term starter, nothing great but steady and pretty solid.

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

Such an embarrassing post...  I’m sad for you.

Substantive post.

[The Frankish Reich]

5 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I liken him to Joe Flacco as a passer with Big Ben's mobility. He should be an above average passer and long-term starter, nothing great but steady and pretty solid.

Flacco took a while to develop too (some would say he never really did develop with the exception of that uncharacteristically great playoff/Super Bowl run). With 4 years + 1 option year, I just don't know about these "project" passers under the current CBA. No knock on Allen; I'm still relatively high on him. But will he emerge as a finished product before his contract runs out? Before the Bills have to decide whether to exercise that pricey 5th year option?

EDIT: my other issue - my impression is that what separates future top-rank QBs from the others (the busts as well as the solid starters) is the ability to recognize defenses and to respond immediately. Think about the recent success stories who started as rookies: Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott ... they all seemed to "get it" almost immediately. That seems more important than flashing pure athleticism. Allen's first start was a bit worrying from this perspective, although certainly we need to give him half a season or so to make this call. Again, no knock on him, but he didn't show that immediate ability to adapt to the NFL game that we've seen in a number of other successful QBs. (Goff may be an exception here ...)

Edited September 16, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[Tyrod's friend]

10 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Just look at where Bortles is now, with a strong team around him. His first few years in the league, people were calling him a bust. 

 

Allen is a lot more talented than Bortles. Give him a good supporting cast, and it's obvious he will flourish. 

One of the things that Bortles does now, is something Allen should adopt - Bortles has this way of stepping forward in the pocket and throwing even while it looks for all the world like he's about to run. 

I said this in pre-season and I'll say it for a long time. If we are lucky, we'll see a ton of those 4th down boondoggles over the next 15 years. It is who he is - he is a hero in his own mind. If the talent approaches the image he'll still throw 25 interceptions in a bad year.

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Flacco took a while to develop too (some would say he never really did develop with the exception of that uncharacteristically great playoff/Super Bowl run). With 4 years + 1 option year, I just don't know about these "project" passers under the current CBA. No knock on Allen; I'm still relatively high on him. But will he emerge as a finished product before his contract runs out? Before the Bills have to decide whether to exercise that pricey 5th year option?

I'm cautiously optimistic, the tools are there but will he step up or step back as teams collect film on him? Could be Paxton Lynch, could be Cam Newton. It all depends on if he develops mentally and keeps his composure.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

11 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I liken him to Joe Flacco as a passer with Big Ben's mobility. He should be an above average passer and long-term starter, nothing great but steady and pretty solid.

My thoughts as well, Flacco with mobility 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

I'm cautiously optimistic, the tools are there but will he step up or step back as teams collect film on him? Could be Paxton Lynch, could be Cam Newton. It all depends on if he develops mentally and keeps his composure.

Agreed. The way the schedule works, we will learn a lot more when the Packers-Titans-Texans (depending on who's healthy/playing on the Texans D)-Colts part of the schedule rolls around. Next week, I think we'll see a very tentative Allen vs. the Vikes defense. Just a tough time for him to have to take over as QB right now, but that's on McBeane and Peterman, not on Josh.

[Coach Tuesday]

26 minutes ago, Rico said:

About what I expected from Allen, needs a lot of work. I do think that if instead we picked Rosen, he'd be on IR.

 

Rosen would’ve applied to law school during halftime.

[Jerome007]

12 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

EDIT: my other issue - my impression is that what separates future top-rank QBs from the others (the busts as well as the solid starters) is the ability to recognize defenses and to respond immediately. Think about the recent success stories who started as rookies: Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott ... they all seemed to "get it" almost immediately. That seems more important than flashing pure athleticism. Allen's first start was a bit worrying from this perspective, although certainly we need to give him half a season or so to make this call. Again, no knock on him, but he didn't show that immediate ability to adapt to the NFL game that we've seen in a number of other successful QBs. (Goff may be an exception here ...)

Get it right , get it right away... that was his very first game as a starter, 5 and a half quarters. Damn people are impatient.

 

Dak had a superb OLine his first year, no fair comparison. Wentz is awesome but you know, surrounded by Superbowl quality talent. Wilson and Watson, OK, fair. Still, it was the first game of a guy supposedly not ready. We waited for Tyrod to finally grasp throwing with anticipation, over the middle, etc. and it never happened. So maybe Josh will reach his ceiling fast... but give the kid a chance.

 

I can't believe all the negative Nancys (not the post quoted) on here saying he is a bust already! Are you mad? You just come to spew vomit? GTFO with that non-sense. If he is a bust, it's not from this game anyone will know it. Not anyone can know from this one game. He looked like a rookie that belongs in the NFL. What more you expect at this stage with his surrounding cast, really?

[TheBrownBear]

I wasn't excited about drafting the guy, but I'm on board now.  Guy has all the physical tools and the "it" factor too.  We knew he was raw coming in.  Just need to support him and have a little patience with the kid as he learns on the fly.

[CommonCents]

3 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Color me shocked that the same people who've hated the pick since day 1 are still hating on it.

 

I thought he looked great as the game went on. Obviously he isn’t picking up blitzes like a veteran but who would expect that? Anyone without an agenda knew this would be the case. 

 

The fire ire he showed after scoring the touchdown is something that’s been lacking in Buffalo for years. If the rest of the team wasn’t such **** the discussion would be different. 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Jerome007 said:

Get it right , get it right away... that was his very first game as a starter, 5 and a half quarters. Damn people are impatient.

 

Dak had a superb OLine his first year, no fair comparison. Wentz is awesome but you know, surrounded by Superbowl quality talent. Wilson and Watson, OK, fair. Still, it was the first game of a guy supposedly not ready. We waited for Tyrod to finally grasp throwing with anticipation, over the middle, etc. and it never happened. So maybe Josh will reach his ceiling fast... but give the kid a chance.

 

I can't believe all the negative Nancys (not the post quoted) on here saying he is a bust already! Are you mad? You just come to spew vomit? GTFO with that non-sense. If he is a bust, it's not from this game anyone will know it. Not anyone can know from this one game. He looked like a rookie that belongs in the NFL. What more you expect at this stage with his surrounding cast, really?

Hey, I'm not negative at all about him! I think he'll be a good starter, with a reasonable chance of emerging as a star. My question is whether WE (Bills management/Bills fans) will have the patience to suffer through what will likely be an extended growth period. I hope I'm wrong and he breaks out as a big-time NFL QB before the end of the year. But I don't think that's likely, and I'm simply pointing out that with some of these other guys it WAS immediate and obvious that their teams had found a franchise QB.

[Buffalo Boy]

Just watched a video of his highlights. Florence killed our satellite reception and internet connection. We missed the TD at the end of both halves?

He does look like he has considerable potential. Happy with what I saw from a rookie.

He did have stupid Ints which is to be expected. He also is visibly not mentally processing/ over thinking . He needs to learn to trust himself and I think he will.

He also needs to learn to step up into the pocket as a first step. It seemed he was moving laterally when he had space in front of him causing a couple sacks unnecessarily.

Considering what a rag tag bunch of “ help” he has and crappy route designs Daboll seems to employ it was pretty impressive.

[Jerome007]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Hey, I'm not negative at all about him! I think he'll be a good starter, with a reasonable chance of emerging as a star. My question is whether WE (Bills management/Bills fans) will have the patience to suffer through what will likely be an extended growth period. I hope I'm wrong and he breaks out as a big-time NFL QB before the end of the year. But I don't think that's likely, and I'm simply pointing out that with some of these other guys it WAS immediate and obvious that their teams had found a franchise QB.

Fair. But let's see what Watson does this year. As for Dak and Zak, it's the media making them superstars because their OLine was so damn dominant. I don't think they suddenly went from studs to average because of 2nd year blues or whatever, or the defense "figured them out". Their Oline was really that good. I recall a a game when they ran down the middle for 8-10 yards a play, and the coaches still had to outsmart themselves and throw a pass. 

 

Mahomes has killed it today, but it's fairplay to think what Allen could do with a year on the bench, with good coaches, solid Oline and offensive weapons. 

 

Anyway, point is, no way for now to anoint Josh "THE GUY" and certainly not saying he's a bust!

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Josh reminds me of Bortles.

 

Big kid with legs , not the most accurate but improves over time, with talent added to him.

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

2 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

Fair. But let's see what Watson does this year. As for Dak and Zak, it's the media making them superstars because their OLine was so damn dominant. I don't think they suddenly went from studs to average because of 2nd year blues or whatever, or the defense "figured them out". Their Oline was really that good. I recall a a game when they ran down the middle for 8-10 yards a play, and the coaches still had to outsmart themselves and throw a pass. 

 

Mahomes has killed it today, but it's fairplay to think what Allen could do with a year on the bench, with good coaches, solid Oline and offensive weapons. 

 

Anyway, point is, no way for now to anoint Josh "THE GUY" and certainly not saying he's a bust!

 

 

OK, no argument there. I don't like how we got to the point of having to start Allen virtually right away (after one half game), but I'm fine with the result - given the 4 year rookie contracts, you can't really lose a whole year of QB development. Unless, of course, you're Andy Reid, in which case it seems just fine ...

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I thought he looked great as the game went on. Obviously he isn’t picking up blitzes like a veteran but who would expect that? Anyone without an agenda knew this would be the case. 

 

The fire ire he showed after scoring the touchdown is something that’s been lacking in Buffalo for years. If the rest of the team wasn’t such **** the discussion would be different. 

 

I know its the QB's job to pick up blitzes but a good O-line will help in that regard too. The Cowboys center would make the protection calls for Dak in his rookie year for the most part and it resulted in good protection. Not making an excuse for Allen, but I am saying that the supporting cast particularly on the O-line isn't doing Allen any favors. 

 

I wasn't initially on the Allen train (I wanted Rosen) but I have pseudo come around to him as a QB prospect. To all the idiots saying Allen is a bust (He might be but it's his first !@#$ing start) or that his ceiling is an above average QB you could not be any more up your own ass. 

 

Allen has literally the first or second strongest arm in the league, he is a 6 foot 5 mobile QB with Big hands and all the intellect and intangibles/work ethic you would want from a QB. Yes he needs to work on his decision making but there are few rookie QB's that don't, yes he needs to work on his footwork and that might ultimately lead to his accuracy issues but he is a hard working guy at least you know he will put in the effort. 

 

If Allen finds his footwork look out because he has top 5 QB potential. Now that's not to say he will find his footwork or that his accuracy issues will iron themselves out but rather that it has the potential to in a realistic manner. The future is still uncertain with this kid but at least the sky is the limit. 

[Luka]

38 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I liken him to Joe Flacco as a passer with Big Ben's mobility. He should be an above average passer and long-term starter, nothing great but steady and pretty solid.

 

So you liken him to two Super Bowl champions? Yea, "pretty solid."

38 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Flacco took a while to develop too (some would say he never really did develop with the exception of that uncharacteristically great playoff/Super Bowl run). With 4 years + 1 option year, I just don't know about these "project" passers under the current CBA. No knock on Allen; I'm still relatively high on him. But will he emerge as a finished product before his contract runs out? Before the Bills have to decide whether to exercise that pricey 5th year option?

EDIT: my other issue - my impression is that what separates future top-rank QBs from the others (the busts as well as the solid starters) is the ability to recognize defenses and to respond immediately. Think about the recent success stories who started as rookies: Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott ... they all seemed to "get it" almost immediately. That seems more important than flashing pure athleticism. Allen's first start was a bit worrying from this perspective, although certainly we need to give him half a season or so to make this call. Again, no knock on him, but he didn't show that immediate ability to adapt to the NFL game that we've seen in a number of other successful QBs. (Goff may be an exception here ...)

 

You can't really tell if he's diagnosing the defense because the line can't block even if he calls the correct protection. That's going to be something discussed while watching film. "What did you see on this play, what protection did you call, etc."

The defense has given up 78 points in two games so that's going to make it even tougher to assess him as a player.

 

It's certainly going to be a year full of adversity for him. His mental makeup and willing to lead will get him through year one. With the expected large sum of cap money available in the offseason and a potentially high 1st round pick, I would expect year two will be a much better environment to judge his individual performance.

[billsfan_34]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Positives

 

Stands tall in the pocket and is not phased by the rush

 

Goes through his progressions

 

Can make any throw 

 

Mobility and toughness

 

Isn’t Nate Peterman

 

Negatives

 

Doesn’t recognize pre-snap looks (shifts, blitzes, protection adjustments)

 

Footwork regressed today

 

Drifts sideways under pressure instead of stepping up into a muddy pocket

 

Doesnt trust his eyes - waits too long to make throws to open receivers 

 

Mental clock is still too slow

 

Accuracy remains an issue 

Agree besides “can make every throw”. Has to learn to take some off his “fastball” in certain situations and has to learn how to drop throws “into a bucket”. That said, the kid had a solid first start behind a crap line and subpar receivers.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

I’m not sure if Allen can ever be someone who will elevate the play of the players around him like Brady, but get him a line and weapons he will be good

[dezertbill]

4 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

but we knew TT wasn't going to amount to anything.

 

Allen is a rookie with a much higher ceiling.

 

 

This.

 

TT was too expensive to keep on the team.  I love Allen and what he brings.  He's young, and comparisons to Mahomes are way premature since we got Tre White in the deal and in a few years Allen could have a way higher ceiling.  Everyone right now is panicking off of a few games.  It's ridiculous

[HappyDays]

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I agree.  Confused by those who thought he was going to be a finished product in his first start.

 

He improved over week 1 and I expect he will continue to do so over the next 14 weeks.

 

Heck I even expect some up and downs, not just weekly improvement but hopefully a general trend up

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I give him an A- simply because of the game situation. It was a B performance, but carrying 21 grown men worth of dead weight can be troublesome. 

 

That is right  21 players worth of players are dead weight - name them.

 

Or maybe you thought you were playing catch with him and counting yourself only 21 times?

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

That is right  21 players worth of players are dead weight - name them.

 

Or maybe you thought you were playing catch with him and counting yourself only 21 times?

 

I really don't understand what you're trying to say. 

 

My point was that Josh was pretty much the only part of the team that worked today. The defense did better in the second half, but still was not impressive. He was the best player on our team, and he still didn't play lights out. 

[billspro]

5 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

His accuracy is better than I imagined, I was expecting a guy that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but that simply has not been the case! That throw to Benjamin between two defenders for the first down was very encouraging to me, not to mention Allen is very hard to bring down, strong runner, I'd like to see more QB sneaks in short yardage situations, Allen is very good at it.

 

It's only one game though, he WILL have some bad games though but today, the game did not seem too big for him and he did not seem overwhelmed. That's huge to me, the fact that he did not seem overwhelmed today is by far the most encouraging aspect to today's game. I will not jump ship on Allen until it seems like the game is too much for him, until then I will ride it out until he cuts his teeth.

 

That TD pass was amazing as well. There are very few QBs in the NFL that can make that throw.

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Flacco took a while to develop too (some would say he never really did develop with the exception of that uncharacteristically great playoff/Super Bowl run). With 4 years + 1 option year, I just don't know about these "project" passers under the current CBA. No knock on Allen; I'm still relatively high on him. But will he emerge as a finished product before his contract runs out? Before the Bills have to decide whether to exercise that pricey 5th year option?

EDIT: my other issue - my impression is that what separates future top-rank QBs from the others (the busts as well as the solid starters) is the ability to recognize defenses and to respond immediately. Think about the recent success stories who started as rookies: Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott ... they all seemed to "get it" almost immediately. That seems more important than flashing pure athleticism. Allen's first start was a bit worrying from this perspective, although certainly we need to give him half a season or so to make this call. Again, no knock on him, but he didn't show that immediate ability to adapt to the NFL game that we've seen in a number of other successful QBs. (Goff may be an exception here ...)

 

If he is still having trouble with that six weeks from now I would be concerned. You have to give him a chance to learn from his mistakes though. I’m excited to see how he plays the next couple weeks.

[BillsFan130]

6 hours ago, joesixpack said:

If you can't see how solid of a first start that was, that's a you problem. Not an Allen problem, a you problem.

 

I would personally give it a 6-7 out of 10.

 

Not a Allen hater at all, I actually like the kid.

 

He made some very nice plays, but definitely had a few negatives. Holding the ball too long was one of them for me.

 

In saying that, it was his very first game and the more reps he gets, the more he will learn.

 

Encouraging for sure.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I know its the QB's job to pick up blitzes but a good O-line will help in that regard too. The Cowboys center would make the protection calls for Dak in his rookie year for the most part and it resulted in good protection. Not making an excuse for Allen, but I am saying that the supporting cast particularly on the O-line isn't doing Allen any favors. 

 

I wasn't initially on the Allen train (I wanted Rosen) but I have pseudo come around to him as a QB prospect. To all the idiots saying Allen is a bust (He might be but it's his first !@#$ing start) or that his ceiling is an above average QB you could not be any more up your own ass. 

 

Allen has literally the first or second strongest arm in the league, he is a 6 foot 5 mobile QB with Big hands and all the intellect and intangibles/work ethic you would want from a QB. Yes he needs to work on his decision making but there are few rookie QB's that don't, yes he needs to work on his footwork and that might ultimately lead to his accuracy issues but he is a hard working guy at least you know he will put in the effort. 

 

If Allen finds his footwork look out because he has top 5 QB potential. Now that's not to say he will find his footwork or that his accuracy issues will iron themselves out but rather that it has the potential to in a realistic manner. The future is still uncertain with this kid but at least the sky is the limit. 

 

Well said 89.  The OL is bad and it will affect his play/development this year.  I mean Allen tried to hand off one play and a defender almost took it away.

Stat line shows a big negative on his part.  He has to plow thru all of these issues and do the best he can to keep improving.

 

3 hours ago, Luka said:

 

So you liken him to two Super Bowl champions? Yea, "pretty solid."

 

You can't really tell if he's diagnosing the defense because the line can't block even if he calls the correct protection. That's going to be something discussed while watching film. "What did you see on this play, what protection did you call, etc."

The defense has given up 78 points in two games so that's going to make it even tougher to assess him as a player.

 

It's certainly going to be a year full of adversity for him. His mental makeup and willing to lead will get him through year one. With the expected large sum of cap money available in the offseason and a potentially high 1st round pick, I would expect year two will be a much better environment to judge his individual performance.

 

How he gets thru this year is everything right now.  I was hesitant about starting him because he might not handle the adversity with a weak talent offense.

After a game and a half it seems maybe he can.  Now it's going to be can he learn to improve even though they keep losing a lot of games.

Another thing I will watch is can he keep this not so good offense enthused to play.

[Jay_Fixit]

I was pleasantly surprised.

 

First start ever, the kid did pretty well. We can all sit back and say what he could improve on but that does no good. He knows it, the coaches know it.

 

I liked what I saw.

[VW82]

 

 

[Success]

It was great to see him going through the progressions like he did.  Pretty impressive considering how little time he had in the pocket, and it feels like it’s been a pretty long time since a Bills qb did that consistently.

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

 

 

So he is like Kroger (Pinto) in Animal House.  1.2 GPA..... 2-Cs 2-Ds and an F.

Head of the Delta pledge class!

 

Much better than 0.0.

Edited September 17, 2018 by ColoradoBills

[PatsFanNH]

Ok I watched the Bills Yesterday and here is my impression on Allen:

 

1. Accuracy :  for me this was tough to judge, because of the drops (I think like 5?) and an O line that had him running for his life most of the day, and when he did have time I didn’t see many Bills receivers running wide open.

 

2. Toughness:  I define toughness as keep fighting no matter how bad it looks.  I think Allen showed a lot of this yesterday. Dislike being down 28-3 he kept fighting and never stopped.   Yes they lost but that will help him a lot when they finally have an O around him.

 

3. Overall Performance — Again hard judge because outside of McCoy I don’t see one player on that O that any D would be afraid to go 1 on 1 with.  I saw little separation from any WR and the O line acted like Matadors most of the game.

 

my overall opinion — I like Allen I think he will be at worse an average starting QB given the proper supporting cast and at best a top 6 or 7 QB.

 

so in other words this year may be tough to watch, but you have IMO the most important piece at QB and now need get an Oline and maybe a defense so he doesn’t have to do it all by himself.

[26CornerBlitz]

11 hours ago, Success said:

It was great to see him going through the progressions like he did.  Pretty impressive considering how little time he had in the pocket, and it feels like it’s been a pretty long time since a Bills qb did that consistently.

 

It's hindsight, but too bad the kid didn't get more meaningful reps in the offseason with the 1st unit instead of wasting time on the other QBs.  

[BmarvB]

Who's going to guide Josh Allen, Nate Peterman? Really? Seriously??? 

Your thoughts?

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/17/buffalo-bills-josh-allen-brandon-beane/

[PatsFanNH]

13 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

Heck I even expect some up and downs, not just weekly improvement but hopefully a general trend up

Your smart to expect that! When he faces a D that is very good he will struggle even more, or when he faces a team where he has no choice but match their O score for score.   What I’m saying is the kid looks good IMO. Imagine how good he look if he had some time in the pocket?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 hours ago, VW82 said:

 

 

 

QBR.