Josh is rough around the edges but man kid has potential

[DuckyBoys]

I'm excited to see him progress and grow over the course of the year.  Saw more good then bad.  I'm very hopeful we finally might have the long term qb

[Bob in STL]

30 minutes ago, DrDonut said:

Accuracy problems? Besides the throw to Demarco I thought he was fine

 

 

Overall a good effort for a rookie, playing against a good defense with a bad OL and bad receivers. 

 

The accuracy questions are very real …  he missed a few easy ones, especially a few short ones,  and throwing behind his receivers on occasion.

 

Obviously he was playing under big pressure as our OL is putrid.  I like the leadership he showed.

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Bob in STL

[teef]

Development is going to take time and that’s ok. Rich Gannon gave such a great analogy to being a new qb. He equated it to being a new driver. At first, you’re just so concerned with the car in front of you. After a while, you start noticing the car in front and back of you.  As time goes on, you notice the car getting ready to turn left, the pedestrian crossing the road, and are anticipating what the traffic around you is doing.  It takes game time/driving time to figure it out. 

[ColdFront_USAF]

29 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The flaws he has always shown are still prevalent.  

 

Most disconcerting is his accuracy, which remains a problem.

 

The narrative in pre-season was that he was improving in that area with better footwork.

That almost never works.

 

 

 

I disagree. One of his biggest problems in college was hitting the dink and dunk passes, screens and swings. He was perfect on those today. In college you would see throws where it was hard to understand how he missed it, and today he didn't miss any easy throws. He did miss a few intermediate throws, but if you didn't expect a rookie in his first start to miss some passes, I don't know what to tell you. It was mostly ball placement that worried me and that will get better over time. 

 

29 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Positives

 

Stands tall in the pocket and is not phased by the rush

 

Goes through his progressions

 

Can make any throw 

 

Mobility and toughness

 

Isn’t Nate Peterman

 

Negatives

 

Doesn’t recognize pre-snap looks (shifts, blitzes, protection adjustments)

 

Footwork regressed today

 

Drifts sideways under pressure instead of stepping up into a muddy pocket

 

Doesnt trust his eyes - waits too long to make throws to open receivers 

 

Mental clock is still too slow

 

Accuracy remains an issue 

 

Good assement. Once he sees the tape, hopefully he starts to learn how to recognize pressure before it happens and make the necessary adjustments. That's advanced stuff that I don't expect him to be proficient at just yet, but he needs to notice the obvious things like a safety standing on the LOS. He's a smart kid, I don't think it will be a long term problem. 

 

As for his pocket presence, the "stepping up" move that great quarterbacks do is to avoid the pressure that usually comes on the edge, and takes advantage of the tackles that won't have as much penetration. But with two pee wee caliber guards and a center that gets blown backwards quite a lot, I don't think he has that available to him very often. Not sure yet, I'll have to watch the all 22 to be sure about that one. I'm at least glad he gave us something to be genuinely excited about in the future. 

[Big Turk]

47 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The flaws he has always shown are still prevalent.  

 

Most disconcerting is his accuracy, which remains a problem.

 

The narrative in pre-season was that he was improving in that area with better footwork.

That almost never works.

 

 

Even on completed passes his ball placement is really bad.

 

What's worse is that the first 4 games are the easiest for a rookie QB to look good before DCs find tendencies. Carson Wentz looked amazing his first 4 games...the rest of the year not so much.

 

By mid year if he doesn't improve he will look really really bad.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2018 by matter2003

[#34fan]

This kid is in big trouble... Whether or not he'll get the help he needs to develop, remains to be seen... Personally, I doubt it.

 

He'll be visiting the turf a whole lot this season.

[CamboBill]

36 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Really liked what I saw the game wasn’t to big for him just keeps needing more and more reps with his receivers 

There is so much to criticize ---- 2 interceptions (the 1st being particularly ugly), horrible ball placement limiting yac, ugly duck throws (like the complete to Jones), misread blitzes, decision making in general .......

 

But you watch the kid play and it is obvious he is a total gamer.  He is also only 22 years old.  He has the raw material to grow into a special player.

 

I am very much in the bring him along slowly camp and am very critical of Bills management of not having a vet QB to mentor him and serve as nominal starter until Josh is ready.

 

That said I enjoy watching the kid.  It is only one game, but he does not have the sane deer in the headlights look that Peterman gets.

 

I took more positive out of this game than negative.

 

As long we  can keep him healthy .... those sacks added up pretty healthy.

[Fadingpain]

7 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

 

 

Overall a good effort for a rookie, playing against a good defense with a bad OL and bad receivers. 

 

The accuracy questions are very real …  he missed a few easy ones, especially a few short ones,  and throwing behind his receivers on occasion.

 

Obviously he was playing under big pressure as our OL is putrid.  I like the leadership he showed.

 

No doubt the OL is putrid, but that does not lead to total duress every time Josh throws the football.

There were plenty of plays where it was fair to judge Josh based on what he was in control of.  Things are not totally out of his control on all plays, though many here like to suggest that is the case.

 

Obviously if pass blocking is blown on a given play and Josh is immediately under duress, that play should be thrown out in terms of evaluating Josh.  But there are many others where he can be judged.

 

He is not anticipating open receivers, he is throwing way late consistently, and his ball placement/accuracy is pretty bad.  

 

These are the things he will need to improve and will be interesting to follow throughout the year.

 

 

 

[CEN-CAL17]

45 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

The flaws he has always shown are still prevalent.  

 

Most disconcerting is his accuracy, which remains a problem.

 

The narrative in pre-season was that he was improving in that area with better footwork.

That almost never works.

 

 

Like not getting time, can’t establish a run game, mediocre WRs... yep just like Wyoming.

 

Solidify the Oline, get him a true #1 WR and a young talented RB... that’s when you’ll see things change. But that’s the 2020 season at the soonest.

 

Be patient this year.

[TH3]

It is almost like he needs...you know like game experiences....followed by tape review and coaching....followed by repeating this over fo a season or two...I could be wrong tho

[Kelly the Dog]

Pretty much what I expected. There is a lot of hope for him. He missed a few he shouldn't have, clearly held the ball too long at time, didn't always make good reads. But there was a lot to like. Our WR and our OL is the very worst in the league. 32. Our run game cannot really get going, partly because our defense stinks too. We get crappy field position. Considering all of that he did pretty good. The next two weeks are going to be more of the same. Really tough games. 

[Domdab99]

As soon as he learns to recognize the blitz packages, the kid will have no limits. 

 

I love him. ?

[HappyDays]

33 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Now just think how this kid would have looked with quality offensive linemen who know how to block properly and know their responsibilities.  

 

It's hard enough to watch those O linemen whiff on blocks. It's quite another to see them block the wrong man so a defender comes free and untouched. 

 

McCoy getting tackled in the backfield as soon as he touches the ball at times. The Bills receiver corps is another sad story. 

 

It's hard for any QB to play well with no run game, let alone a rookie in his first ever start. Defenses aren't going to stack the box against Allen so I don't know why we had so much trouble.

[finn]

41 minutes ago, The Red King said:

He was a project.  And he wasn't given enough time to bake in the oven.  I liked what I saw.  Still areas that need work, but that's why he's got another 14+ games to develop.  He was never meant to light up the league this year.  This year is to set him up to do so next season.

 

I don't get the negativity.  Rook has a horrid line, terrible receivers, and still looks promising in his first start.  I honestly think his biggest critics here are bashing him because they're upset we didn't get Mahomes or Darnold instead.

The most germane post I've seen so far on Allen.

[One Buffalo]

He looked like a rookie out there... but man he showed some flashes of what he can become with time and reps...  he has a fire in him that you can't coach or teach.  

 

Better days are ahead  as we  build the core around him.  

[zonabb]

Watching Goff make some inaccurate throws... and Bob Woods and Kupp making great catches. QB accuracy is not all on the QB. I was not an Allen fan when he was picked but I think he showed promise today, especially with his willing to stand in there and make throws. Maybe I've been so oversaturated with TT and EJ setting off to run at the first sign of trouble. Kids got the guts necessary to be successful in this league. The rest you hope he can improve on. 

 

One thing that's stunning today, from maybe 20 or so years ago (when I was a kid!), is that patience from fans and owners seems to be non-existent. In a QB-driven league with a deficit of good QBs, no one seems to want to be patient. Everyone expects every QB to be excellent from day one. Just not the reality for all. Heard on the radio today Manning had 28 INTs his first season. I think Aikman and Kelly had 3 wins. 

 

And unfortunately for Allen, he doesn't have the hand-sy guys like a Woods and an OL that could get him killed. Hard for the game to slow down, for perfect progressions, and great footwork on all throws. And reading the D pre-snap.... no one is good at that with 6 quarters of NFL regular season action. Takes time. 

 

I'd be interested, after a game and a half, if these national (and of course local and TBD) experts can discern any improvement in his footwork/mechanics. 

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's hard for any QB to play well with no run game, let alone a rookie in his first ever start. Defenses aren't going to stack the box against Allen so I don't know why we had so much trouble.

 

You are a jinx bro, no more predictions out of you.

[billsfan89]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

His flat feet was the reason for that underthrow on that 2nd INT.

 

Im interested to see how Daboll can help him correct that if he can at all.

 

I think it is possible Allen's footwork can improve with experience as I think the game will slow down for him as he starts more. 

[Klaista2k]

Allen's accuracy issues weren't exaggerated at all. 

 

Can't say I feel great about picking him right now.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Klaista2k said:

Allen's accuracy issues weren't exaggerated at all. 

 

Can't say I feel great about picking him right now.

It's posts like these that make me wonder if people actually watch the games.

 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

It's posts like these that make me wonder if people actually watch the games.

 

He did have some inaccurate passes in some big moments.

 

Anyone thinking Allen looked more like Watson than he did EJ is fooling themselves.

[transplantbillsfan]

58 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Color me shocked that the same people who've hated the pick since day 1 are still hating on it.

 

 

We can always count on that kind of tribalism here.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

He did have some inaccurate passes in some big moments.

 

Anyone thinking Allen looked more like Watson than he did EJ is fooling themselves.

 

Really? Tell me more. Break it down for me, coach.

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We can always count on that kind of tribalism here.

LOL, the people who didn't like Allen as a player aren't blown away by his 1 TD 2 INT performance!  More news at 11.

[Gray Beard]

He has to get the internal clock going and learn to throw it away.

He has to learn that if the sack looks likely, throw it away.

 

A rookie attitude that he can make something happen, when he would be better off throwing it away.

[Jpsredemption]

He may be salvageable with a new coaching staff and front office.

[Jerome007]

He looked like a rookie out there all right, but a super talented one! He missed some blitzes, misread some plays, looked left first when he should gone right, etc. All these you sense he can and will clean up his act with experience so it is exciting.

 

Even in preseason he had shown he could master the clock. Hell he's way ahead of Tyrod in two minute drills!

 

He is tough to bring down, which this time cost an INT and should have also caused a fumble. Still, overall, that should help.

 

As for the more worrisome aspects, it's the first game of his 5 outings so far I found his inaccuracy troubling, as it seems it might be a recurring pattern. Before this game, I felt it was just needless parroting of this supposed trait.

 

While he throws darts and bombs as good as anyone, we don't see many throws with anticipation, if any. Is it something he'll learn overtime or never be good at? No one can tell now. His high score on the Wonderlic test makes me hopefully he'll quickly improve. Exciting.

 

 

 

[Klaista2k]

3 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

It's posts like these that make me wonder if people actually watch the games.

 

I watched the entire game.

 

I saw some good stuff from him but how could you ignore his accuracy issues?

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

Really? Tell me more. Break it down for me, coach.

 

Poorly accurate ball to wide open Dimarco that he had to spin around and cost him a good 15 yards.  A miss to a wide open crossing Marcus Murphy thrown behind and above him.

 

Allen wasn't horrible.  He was inconsistent. He had some wow plays and some bad plays.  

[Roundybout]

Just now, Jpsredemption said:

He may be salvageable with a new coaching staff and front office.

 

[yungmack]

58 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Positives

 

Stands tall in the pocket and is not phased by the rush

 

Goes through his progressions

 

Can make any throw 

 

Mobility and toughness

 

Isn’t Nate Peterman

 

Negatives

 

Doesn’t recognize pre-snap looks (shifts, blitzes, protection adjustments)

 

Footwork regressed today

 

Drifts sideways under pressure instead of stepping up into a muddy pocket

 

Doesnt trust his eyes - waits too long to make throws to open receivers 

 

Mental clock is still too slow

 

Accuracy remains an issue 

I intend to wait until the post preseason is over at the end of the month before I get too critical but so far, your analysis is exactly what I'm seeing. BTW, the much-maligned O line gave Allen a ton of time to throw today most of the time. 

[Nihilarian]

Now think about Peterman getting most of the first string reps in camp and getting all the first string reps for the Ravens game. 

 

Allen really hasn't played that much with the starting offense so his timing and getting to know what to expect from each receiver should get better as the season goes on. 

 

Now, If Daboll can get the run game working to help this rookie out he won't always be passing and be in third and longs. 13 touches is not enough for McCoy and 39 yards rushing didn't cut it either. 

 

Five sacks today and it could have been much worse If Bosa had played. 

 

So much is wrong with this offense right now and the least of the worry is the QB. 

[longtimebillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Klaista2k said:

Allen's accuracy issues weren't exaggerated at all. 

 

Can't say I feel great about picking him right now.

I am sure with the speed of the game and the pressure he felt in the first half, he forgot some of the things he had worked on in the preseason to improve his accuracy.   He made some very nice throws today as well.  What about those?   With a rookies qb. You look for positives, and there were plenty.  It is easy to find flaws with a rookie qb making his first start. But come on, get real.   Brady would not have looked good in the first half with the lack of protection Josh had to deal with.  Slow down and enjoy watching him grow.   What is the point in being so negative?

 

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

Now think about Peterman getting most of the first string reps in camp and getting all the first string reps for the Ravens game. 

 

Allen really hasn't played that much with the starting offense so his timing and getting to know what to expect from each receiver should get better as the season goes on. 

 

Now, If Daboll can get the run game working to help this rookie out he won't always be passing and be in third and longs. 13 touches is not enough for McCoy and 39 yards rushing didn't cut it either. 

 

Five sacks today and it could have been much worse If Bosa had played. 

 

So much is wrong with this offense right now and the least of the worry is the QB. 

Great points.  Thank you. 

[Bob in STL]

18 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

No doubt the OL is putrid, but that does not lead to total duress every time Josh throws the football.

There were plenty of plays where it was fair to judge Josh based on what he was in control of.  Things are not totally out of his control on all plays, though many here like to suggest that is the case.

 

Obviously if pass blocking is blown on a given play and Josh is immediately under duress, that play should be thrown out in terms of evaluating Josh.  But there are many others where he can be judged.

 

He is not anticipating open receivers, he is throwing way late consistently, and his ball placement/accuracy is pretty bad.  

 

These are the things he will need to improve and will be interesting to follow throughout the year.

 

 

 

So I am going to give  Allen a few YEARS  to develop.  Not a game, not a few games.  At least a few seasons. 

 

Others can pick apart every play but IMO he is learning and he has a lot to learn. 

 

 

[Don Beebe]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

Color me shocked that the same people who've hated the pick since day 1 are still hating on it.

 

Haters have to hate.

[Ittakestime]

For someone with such a big arm, too many times he plays like he doesn't. Same stuff happened at Wyoming. 

 

The kid is mentally flawed and it will never change. He will always be the same player due to his mental limitations. Whether here or Wyoming. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Ittakestime

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, Ittakestime said:

For someone with such a big arm, too many times he plays like he doesn't. Same stuff happened at Wyoming. 

 

The kid kid is mentally flawed and it will never change. He will always be the same player due to his mental limitations. Whether here or Wyoming. 

 

[Victory Formation]

His accuracy is better than I imagined, I was expecting a guy that couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but that simply has not been the case! That throw to Benjamin between two defenders for the first down was very encouraging to me, not to mention Allen is very hard to bring down, strong runner, I'd like to see more QB sneaks in short yardage situations, Allen is very good at it.

 

It's only one game though, he WILL have some bad games though but today, the game did not seem too big for him and he did not seem overwhelmed. That's huge to me, the fact that he did not seem overwhelmed today is by far the most encouraging aspect to today's game. I will not jump ship on Allen until it seems like the game is too much for him, until then I will ride it out until he cuts his teeth.

[transplantbillsfan]

12 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

LOL, the people who didn't like Allen as a player aren't blown away by his 1 TD 2 INT performance!  More news at 11.

 

I don't think anyone is blown away, just really encouraged.

 

But like I said--tribalism 

 

[VW82]

8 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

So I am going to give  Allen a few YEARS  to develop.  Not a game, not a few games.  At least a few seasons. 

 

Others can pick apart every play but IMO he is learning and he has a lot to learn. 

 

 

 

I'm afraid the days of developing a QB for years before making a determination are over. No one does that anymore which is why it was such a bad decision to throw Josh in there this early. He's going to get this season to show improvement. If he shows enough he'll get next season too, or at least most of it unless he's terrible. 

 

The issue is you can't afford to lose the locker room at the expense of developing a QB. They're important, but not THAT important. At some point a young QB needs to show he's worth it, and most guys only get a season or two now to do that.