O Line Troubles Start With It's Coach !!

[T master]

Sorry i don't usually like to be a hater & still don't think i am being a "hater" per say but Juan Castillo has never really done any thing for me or relevant in the NFL ! Oh he did get SB ring with the Ravens because they brought him on as a irrelevant assistants assistant near the end of the year they won the SB that's the reason why he has a SB ring but other than that & that he has a bunch of experience at coaching he really hasn't proven he's a winning coach at his chosen trade !

 

I never did like the choice of him by McD because i remember the debacle in Philly with Andy Reid when he got fired from there because of changing him from one coaching position to another . Here's some old reading material about all that & notice who Castillo took over in place of !! 

 

https://philly.sbnation.com/2012/10/17/3517294/revisiting-the-juan-castillo-hiring 

 

I think he is a good person kind of like the Tyrod thing ! A great person, great work ethic, good leader, but when it comes to results it just doesn't come to be & if last years tape & this years 2 preseason games, the one AJ started & then this one with Allen starting shows anything then it could be time to move on already !

 

Sure i know you all will say what every one else is saying about the loss of Wood & Incognito that the O line is in flux but a good coach can at the very least see the strengths of the players he has & devise something that looks better than what was seen on the field for the start of the last 2 preseason games ! 

 

Also with the Rookie talent they have gotten in the draft & the fact that no one on the team can see that Ducasse & Mills are average at best & that Castillo was more than likely one that wants to keep Ducasse in the line up as a starter sends a huge red flag to me ! Yes i am only a fan but I've  seen Ducasse & read other so called experts say he is past his prime & it shows ! 

 

Mills has been talked about as being such for 2 yrs & he's still a starter so if he can't see that weakness how can things get any better ?

 

It all starts up front & on both sides of the ball & we saw the difference in the Bills D when it went from Shwartz to Rex & when they changed & brought Kromer in to be the O line coach, so coaching is HUGE !! 

 

 IMHO this guy (Castillo) ain't getting it done & I hope McBean sees it sooner rather than later !! If not it could be a short honeymoon !!

[NewEra]

Everyone in the world seems to know all of this except for McDermott.  It’s pretty sad and is killing this team.

[BillsFan130]

While Castillo should share lots of the blame, at the end of the day the Bills really don't have much talent on their o line

[The Jokeman]

I think the issue stems that we we tfrom a man blocking to zone blocking scheme. We had the talent to run man but not zone. As we do t have nimble olineman. 

[billsfanmd07]

Being pushed backwards 10 yards into your QB every snap to me is lack of talent or brute strength

 

[Dr. Who]

Most likely the answer is we need both much more talent and a much better o-line coach.

[klos63]

We are missing 3 starters from last season. Our best 3 linemen at that. To me it seems we don't have enough talent on the line. Not sure if that's coaching or Beane's fault. Regardless, it's a huge problem.

[SoTier]

3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

While Castillo should share lots of the blame, at the end of the day the Bills really don't have much talent on their o line

 

This.  I'm not a Castillo fan, but let's get a couple of things straight here. 

1. Castillo didn't decide on the zone blocking scheme the Bills changed to in 2017 and have kept in 2018.  That was Dennison and Daboll.
2. Castillo didn't decide to bring in Ducasse or Newhouse or Bodine.  He didn't let Seantrell Henderson walk in FA or trade away Cordy Glenn.  He didn't ignore OL in the draft until very late in the fifth round, either.  Those "sins" all sit squarely on McDermott and Beane.

IOW, Castillo is dealing with the hand he's been dealt by those higher up the Bills food chain than assistant coach.

[dave mcbride]

The problem is talent, not Castillo. Castillo coached the Eagles' offensive line from 1998-2010, and they finished in the top 12 in points in 9 of those seasons and the top 11 in yards in 7 of those seasons.  Using Football Outsiders' DVOA metric, from 2001-10, the Eagles' offense finished in the top 12 nine out of ten years and the top 10 seven out of ten years. 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

The problem is talent, not Castillo. Castillo coached the Eagles' offensive line from 1998-2010, and they finished in the top 12 in points in 9 of those seasons and the top 11 in yards in 7 of those seasons.  Using Football Outsiders' DVOA metric, from 2001-10, the Eagles' offense finished in the top 12 nine out of ten years and the top 10 seven out of ten years. 

Nah, I want to still hate Castillo, stop with this stuff?. I do think talent is the main issue, though.

[Jpsredemption]

He did what football coaches do...hired a guy because he knew him..certainly can't be solely based on past success.

 

Maybe he should have taken the Daboll route with many of his hires....you know actually look outside the box.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Jpsredemption said:

He did what football coaches do...hired a guy because he knew him..certainly can't be solely based on past success.

 

Maybe he should have taken the Daboll route with many of his hires....you know actually look outside the box.

Castillo has actually had a lot of success in the past. I don't even blame him for last season -- that falls on their garbage OC. 

[thunderingsquid]

I think we need to approach this year with skepticism.  We have a dumpster fire on our hands at o line, the big glaring reason but not the only is the disappearance of Wood and Incognito.  A talent flush.  

 

The silver lining is that we have a lot of cap space next year, the draft is deep at tackle (but not guard or center) but the free agent market is deep at all three OL positions.  

 

I trust the law firm of McDermott and Beane to get us some help but it won't come very soon.  

 

Hoping some creativity on offense, some run game help from Shady and Dawkins' return can mask some of our woes.  I'm not sold on Peterman as starter but he does not hold on to the ball as much as Allen.  

 

 

[Rock Pile Guy]

This is just another example of a stupid thread. Players have to perform, no matter who the coach is 

 

Doomed...lmao

[boater]

You can't coach corned beef hash into prime rib.

 

Unless some pretty good OL talent get's cut from other teams next week (very doubtful), it's going to be a disappointing season.

[jr1]

does Castillo have "compromising" pics of Sean?

[bmur66]

I won't defend Castillo because I don't know enough but I do know you can't make chicken soup out of chicken $#!+

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

This.  I'm not a Castillo fan, but let's get a couple of things straight here. 

1. Castillo didn't decide on the zone blocking scheme the Bills changed to in 2017 and have kept in 2018.  That was Dennison and Daboll.
2. Castillo didn't decide to bring in Ducasse or Newhouse or Bodine.  He didn't let Seantrell Henderson walk in FA or trade away Cordy Glenn.  He didn't ignore OL in the draft until very late in the fifth round, either.  Those "sins" all sit squarely on McDermott and Beane.

IOW, Castillo is dealing with the hand he's been dealt by those higher up the Bills food chain than assistant coach.

Yeah, losing Seantrel Henderson was a huge loss. How will we ever survive?  As was Glenn, who didn't play hardly at all because of injury.

 

The O line needs help to be sure.  Groy needs to get back to playing as he did when Wood got hurt a couple seasons ago.  They need to let Teller in there, at least he won't get manhandled.  But to bring up Seantrel Henderson as an indictment against Beane and McDermott is just a ridiculous stretch by someone who seeks to do nothing around here but be critical.

 

[TFBillsfan]

This OL is a hot mess from the starting five. Heaven forbid someone gets hurt as we have no depth outside of Teller. It’s going to turnstile city this year trying to pass block. I normally discount the preseason but our OL is consistently losing basic one on one matches. Our coaches would have to be blind not to have the same concerns.

[Woodman19]

Think this is clearly a case of having a lack of talent, not coaching.  No coach in the world could make this group look good.

[SoTier]

38 minutes ago, thunderingsquid said:

I think we need to approach this year with skepticism.  We have a dumpster fire on our hands at o line, the big glaring reason but not the only is the disappearance of Wood and Incognito.  A talent flush.  

 

The silver lining is that we have a lot of cap space next year, the draft is deep at tackle (but not guard or center) but the free agent market is deep at all three OL positions.  

 

I trust the law firm of McDermott and Beane to get us some help but it won't come very soon.  

 

Hoping some creativity on offense, some run game help from Shady and Dawkins' return can mask some of our woes.  I'm not sold on Peterman as starter but he does not hold on to the ball as much as Allen.  

 

 

 

I've been a Bills fan since I was about 13.  I'm 68.  I no longer trust anybody in any position of authority in the Bills FO or on the coaching staff to actually have a clueabout how to build a winning team.  The late John Butler was the last competent exec at OBD, and he left for California back in 2000 or 2001.

Edited August 27, 2018 by SoTier

[ndirish1978]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

While Castillo should share lots of the blame, at the end of the day the Bills really don't have much talent on their o line

 

They had Wood and Incognito last year and consistently ran the wrong blocking scheme for them. 

[MAJBobby]

I see more are getting on my Fire Juan bandwagon. 

[Bills4Ever4Life]

1 hour ago, T master said:

Sorry i don't usually like to be a hater & still don't think i am being a "hater" per say but Juan Castillo has never really done any thing for me or relevant in the NFL ! Oh he did get SB ring with the Ravens because they brought him on as a irrelevant assistants assistant near the end of the year they won the SB that's the reason why he has a SB ring but other than that & that he has a bunch of experience at coaching he really hasn't proven he's a winning coach at his chosen trade !

 

I never did like the choice of him by McD because i remember the debacle in Philly with Andy Reid when he got fired from there because of changing him from one coaching position to another . Here's some old reading material about all that & notice who Castillo took over in place of !! 

 

https://philly.sbnation.com/2012/10/17/3517294/revisiting-the-juan-castillo-hiring 

 

I think he is a good person kind of like the Tyrod thing ! A great person, great work ethic, good leader, but when it comes to results it just doesn't come to be & if last years tape & this years 2 preseason games, the one AJ started & then this one with Allen starting shows anything then it could be time to move on already !

 

Sure i know you all will say what every one else is saying about the loss of Wood & Incognito that the O line is in flux but a good coach can at the very least see the strengths of the players he has & devise something that looks better than what was seen on the field for the start of the last 2 preseason games ! 

 

Also with the Rookie talent they have gotten in the draft & the fact that no one on the team can see that Ducasse & Mills are average at best & that Castillo was more than likely one that wants to keep Ducasse in the line up as a starter sends a huge red flag to me ! Yes i am only a fan but I've  seen Ducasse & read other so called experts say he is past his prime & it shows ! 

 

Mills has been talked about as being such for 2 yrs & he's still a starter so if he can't see that weakness how can things get any better ?

 

It all starts up front & on both sides of the ball & we saw the difference in the Bills D when it went from Shwartz to Rex & when they changed & brought Kromer in to be the O line coach, so coaching is HUGE !! 

 

 IMHO this guy (Castillo) ain't getting it done & I hope McBean sees it sooner rather than later !! If not it could be a short honeymoon !!

Agreed. Also, he is featured in the first "Bills embedded" and not to be offensive but he sounded dumb as a rock. Made absolutely no sense and filled the gaps with "no duh" statements like "the stronger man wins". He honestly sounded a bit dimwitted and his o-line production seems to be mirroring his mental capacity.
Check out 8:43:
https://www.buffalobills.com/video/buffalo-bills-embedded-episode-1-the-process

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life

[Jerome007]

I know it's too late and he has gone crazy, but damn do we miss Incognito or what! To me he was THE key in opening so many critical and long plays for Shady. It's too late but why did the Bills wanted him, from all the players on the roster, to take a paycut? I still don't get it!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Yeah, losing Seantrel Henderson was a huge loss. How will we ever survive?  As was Glenn, who didn't play hardly at all because of injury.

 

 

This. All of the sudden Henderson is a latter day Tony Munoz?

 

COME ON.

 

[Stevie Ray]

Joe Panos would look like an All Pro on this line!

[Formerly Allan in MD]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The problem is talent, not Castillo. Castillo coached the Eagles' offensive line from 1998-2010, and they finished in the top 12 in points in 9 of those seasons and the top 11 in yards in 7 of those seasons.  Using Football Outsiders' DVOA metric, from 2001-10, the Eagles' offense finished in the top 12 nine out of ten years and the top 10 seven out of ten years. 

Bingo!  When you refuse to use high picks on offensive linemen year after year and don't spend what it takes to bring in quality free agents, this is what you get. 

[Boatdrinks]

We all know Castillo is mediocre to poor and is just a “ buddy “ hire. He also has little talent to work with on the OL. It’s a pretty bad combo all the way around. 

[BullBuchanan]

While it's proven that all of these guys ( except maybe groy) are below average, they've never been this bad. The defenses are practically coming in unblocked.

 

Given that we know McDermott gets regular analysis from his assistants via Embedded, one of two things are happening. Either Juan is saying that his players are good/good enough, or he's saying it's a problem and Beane can't/won't fix it, in which case it's on Beane.

 

Given that these guys are performing way below their average, my money's on Castillo

[BuffaloMatt]

1 hour ago, boater said:

You can't coach corned beef hash into prime rib.

 

Unless some pretty good OL talent get's cut from other teams next week (very doubtful), it's going to be a disappointing season.

Mmmmmmm. . . . Corned beef hash. . . .

[Fr. Jerk]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Mmmmmmm. . . . Corned beef hash. . . .

 

[boater]

OK, I recant my previous position regarding corned beef hash/prime rib.

 

I now postulate: You can't coach scrapple into a Sahlens hotdog.

 

Ya can't get more gross then scrapple.

[blacklabel]

Keep in mind that Daboll's scheme requires the OL to be multi-faceted and able to execute a number of different blocking schemes from week to week based on their opponent. Combine that with the fact that they've been tinkering with the starting five all summer long. Dawkins has been the only "for sure" guy at his position. Newhouse has battled Mills a little bit for RT but at the end of the day it's gonna be Mills. They still haven't decided if they want Bodine or Groy at C. Because of that, they haven't decided if they're settled on Miller/Ducasse at G because if they go with Bodine at C, they may want Groy at LG or RG. At a certain point, they have to make up their minds and stick with the same five guys for a full week of practice and a game to see how they gel. Pre-snap penalties as well as in-play penalties can be a result of these guys not having enough reps together to understand how to best work with one another. 

 

Right now it's on all of them. I'm not a huge fan of Castillo but the constant switching around and not naming their best five has set them back. All the while they're trying to run multiple schemes under Daboll and it's just not coming together right now. The best way to combat a sketchy OL is the run game and a short passing game which plays to Peterman's skill set... so, at this point, unless something drastic happens, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be Peterman under center in week one.

Edited August 27, 2018 by blacklabel

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

They had Wood and Incognito last year and consistently ran the wrong blocking scheme for them. 

I agree. I’m not saying he is good. Cause I think he’s a pretty bad coach.

 

I am just saying success on the o line is not as simple as firing him and bringing in a new coach.

 

There is no talent on that line. Combine that with a bad coach and this is the result so far 

[boater]

4 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

... so, at this point, unless something drastic happens, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be Peterman under center in week one.

Ya. It could be Peterman under center. Literally.

 

(I believe this is the traditional use of literally)

[stevestojan]

Like Dickerson said years ago, it’s tough to make chicken salad when all you have to work with is chicken ****! 

[DrDawkinstein]

I mean....

 

 

 

Our guys just getting lifted off their feet like little kids... Pitiful.

 

Ducasse should be cut immediately.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[RevWarRifleman]

T master, I agree. But include Bean in this too. They're both at the top of the list in getting the best personnel for the team. That was one the top priorities after

 

Wood & Incognito left.

[Big Turk]

OLine troubles start with replacing 2 pro bowl caliber players with two backup caliber players. Not much Beane could do this off season tho to address that with all the other issues needing to be fixed so he did what he could. 

 

This off season was all about getting the QB they wanted