Incognito's Retirement? [update: Now Released]

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, GG said:

I'm sure there's a long waiting list for teams to sign a 34+ vet who fired his long-time agent, went on a rambling 4-day twitter meltdown, manufactured an illness, and then told off the team owners in a drunken rampage.

Haha.  One year deal minimizes those risks though.  

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

So let’s say Hughes wants out. He goes on a 4 day twitter bender and drunk dials the pegulas- that gets him out of his contract?

 

i only mentioned the pats because you did

Some people are portraying the Incognito saga as a player holding the team hostage to his demands. That' s far from what has happened here. The Bills required Incognito to take a pay cut in order to stay with the team. If he wouldn't have agreed to the cut he would have been released. The point is that he wasn't seen as an indispensable player that this team had to have. Incognito wasn't happy with the pay cut yet still signed the contract. That was a mistake on his part because he could have just said no to the cut and then have his release. I understand Incognito's mind-set. He is a player at the end of his career and although he is still playing well he doesn't have much marketability from a contract standpoint. 

 

When all is said and done the Bills did the right thing. They let him go free and clear of any encumbrances i.e. having to pay back some of his bonus money. That was the right thing to do for him and for the organization because the Incognito issue is completely gone. Instead of fighting for its right to keep a penny the organization acted in its own interest by not getting entangled in an unnecessary conflict. It also showed that the organization was more than generous in doing the right thing for its former player. 

[Wsam4031]

18 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Why?

 

He signed a contract. If he wants to retire, fine. But why are they just letting him sign elsewhere? Stupid. 

I agree don't let him dictate that after he signs with us. You wan tot retire go for it don't use that as a bargaining chip to get released. I liked him too but this makes me not like him anymore

[Doc]

That the Bills approached him, one of the better players on the team and especially OL, tells me they were ready to move on from him at that time.  If he said no, and especially if he got pissed, they would have cut him then. 

[GG]

15 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

He's not the owner. He's not the GM. Some Bills fans just love to hate the Owner and GM.

 

 

If there is any truth to this drunken rampage story, then I suspect that while the story may never surface publicly, it will surface among the owners.

 

And that'll be that until one owner is desperate enough to bring him on.

 

There are enough mentions in this thread from credible sources that make me believe that the drunken rampage is true.

 

Surely someone may kick the tires for one season.  But then they will have to look Kim in the eye in the meetings.  Not saying that Richie's tirade was directed at Kim instead of Terry, but at this point, they're inseparable as owners.

[Da webster guy]

9 hours ago, Logic said:

I can't see how this is so hard for people to understand.

Beane and McDermott value chemistry and culture above all else. They have shown that they will not hesitate to get rid of ANYONE who they don't think will positively contribute to the chemistry and culture of the locker room.

Richie Incognito, with his erratic behavior, sudden instability, and the drama that his "I'm retired, no I'm not, I want my release, can I come back?" routine was creating, became a threat to the chemistry and culture that Beane and McDermott wanted to build. They thus decided that the best move was to get rid of him, even if it meant "giving him what he wants" and losing some bonus money. People thinking we were going to get a trade asset in return for a 34-year-old guard who has recently displayed erratic behavior are dreaming. I believe that Beane assessed that the tiny silver of potential of getting a 2019 7th round pick in exchange for this guy was not worth the headaches he was beginning to create. 

As to the notion of holding on to Incognito's rights so that his only options are retire or play for the Bills. Why? It was one thing with Boldin, who agreed to play for the Bills, then 10 days into camp retired, then asked if he could be let out of his contract. Beane felt burned by Boldin's failure to honor his commitment and reacted accordingly. With Richie, he had three good years with the Bills and was a key part of their playoff season. Why hold him hostage? Especially given the aforementioned headaches he is creating.

Sometimes, addition by subtraction is necessary to maintain intangible qualities like chemistry and culture. I believe this is one of those cases.

But they already DID get rid of him.  He chose to retire.  We drafted his replacement, it was over.   Personally I would have either paid him his $1 Mil (a bonus for being on the roster for 2018 which he is not) or let him look elsewhere but not both.   Whatever.  I always liked the guy, I hope he's healthy and happy in retirement.   

I would suggest he get tested for CTE just in case.  He played hard.

[Dopey]

16 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Im really not trying to split hairs...just trying to understand.

He has a condition that caused him to lose weight and he has been suspended because he cannot tolerate the pain without using weed which is still illegal in the league.  Am I missing something?

Quote

 

Yes, you are missing the point that the post read" In the past several months, we have lost four offensive linemen who have started for the Bills over the past few years. "

Whether you think he is good or worth it, he is one of the 4 offensive linemen we "lost" who have started in the past few years. He didn't say they were all pro bowlers. You are adding to the narrative with your assertion that he wasn't "really a loss". I get it, still a loss. Unless I'm missing something. 

[aristocrat]

it seemed he turned it around for us.  his life was seemingly on a good track and then a spark just made him turn.  that spark i guess was the paycut. he's not gonna handle retirement well unless he somehow gets on a staff somewhere and he can keep his mind right but if he gets fired what happens? 

[scribo]

Beane gets the benefit of the doubt from me, at this point. But I would have liked to see Beane at least trade Richie for a 6th, letting him pick his landing spot.

Edited May 22, 2018 by scribo

[Doc]

1 minute ago, scribo said:

Beane gets the benefits of the doubt from me, at this point. But I would have liked to see Beane at least trade Richie for a 6th, letting him pick his landing spot.

 

I have zero doubts that Beane tried to trade him but found no takers. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Haha, should is the key word.  

Haha, are you trolling?  This is exactly what I would expect from him.  He is showing who he really is. 

I do not ‘troll’.  How do you know or what do you think ‘he really is’?

[Sky Diver]

He graded above average by PFF #12 G, for whatever that's worth. Given how weak we are on the offensive line, I don't get why we didn't offer him a 1 yr deal that would have kept him happy.

 

Looks like they mishandled this situation to me.

 

Penny wise, pound foolish if our line gets our QB's killed.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[HOUSE]

 

Gone....he's not gone

 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by THE SLAMMER

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Haha.  One year deal minimizes those risks though.  

 

Sure, but it wasn’t like he hasn’t been a problem literally everywhere he’s played football going back through both of his college teams.  His first stint in Buffalo was the only one that wasn’t marred by misbehavior.  What owner or GM really wants to take that chance on a guy at the end of his career who might be a problem and/or create problems in the locker room?

[Sky Diver]

3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Sure, but it wasn’t like he hasn’t been a problem literally everywhere he’s played football going back through both of his college teams.  His first stint in Buffalo was the only one that wasn’t marred by misbehavior.  What owner or GM really wants to take that chance on a guy at the end of his career who might be a problem and/or create problems in the locker room?

 

How has he been a problem here before they jerked him around?

Edited May 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Wsam4031 said:

I agree don't let him dictate that after he signs with us. You wan tot retire go for it don't use that as a bargaining chip to get released. I liked him too but this makes me not like him anymore

Perhaps this was part of a deal where the Bills recouped the signing bonus they just paid him.  That’d make sense.  He could fight having to return it, but would likely lose that battle.

[zow2]

Well, i was a Ritchie fan for a couple of seasons there.  Now good riddance.  All his antics to get away from Buffalo were low class.  While we thought he was going loopy, it was all calculated I'm sure to get this end result.

[Best Player Available]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Perhaps this was part of a deal where the Bills recouped the signing bonus they just paid him.  That’d make sense.  He could fight having to return it, but would likely lose that battle.

Might not ever know how that went down. Unless cogs signed a new agent. and at some date talks. 

Otherwise once you're cut you owe the team nothing in terms of signing bonuses, etc.

You have to wonder how many ex employees, etc. on the Pegulas sports teams. Are sitting

on their couch waiting for those checks to roll in? Most likely more than any other owner. 

[C.Biscuit97]

42 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I do not ‘troll’.  How do you know or what do you think ‘he really is’?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3439819

 

Hes been a bad guy much more than he’s been a good guy.  

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

There are enough mentions in this thread from credible sources that make me believe that the drunken rampage is true.

 

Surely someone may kick the tires for one season.  But then they will have to look Kim in the eye in the meetings.  Not saying that Richie's tirade was directed at Kim instead of Terry, but at this point, they're inseparable as owners.

Am I missing something? I only saw one reference to a possible drunken rampage, and it was secondhand  from a freaking OBD security guard. That's approaching cab-driver-for-Seifert level. The person who posted it may well be credible, but he has only 90 posts so I'm not buying - yet. KtD, who I trust, made an oblique comment hinting at ... something, but said nothing specific. 

[Sky Diver]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3439819

 

Hes been a bad guy much more than he’s been a good guy.  

 

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3439819

 

Hes been a bad guy much more than he’s been a good guy.  

 

4.5 yr old article. What issues has he had recently?

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

 

4.5 yr old article. What issues has he had recently?

A mental breakdown on twitter because of a contract he willingly signed and lied about health issues to get out of it.  He also said “something” to a Jags player.  

 

This is who he is.  He pretended for a couple of years here.

[boyst]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

A mental breakdown on twitter because of a contract he willingly signed and lied about health issues to get out of it.  He also said “something” to a Jags player.  

 

This is who he is.  He pretended for a couple of years here.

Curious on what has you so passionate about this.  

 

I've been enjoying the back and forth by all...

[Sky Diver]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

A mental breakdown on twitter because of a contract he willingly signed and lied about health issues to get out of it.  He also said “something” to a Jags player.  

 

This is who he is.  He pretended for a couple of years here.

 

Never met him so I have no idea. I do know that he was our best lineman last year so I don't get making him a low ball offer. Shady wanted him back badly.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Jason Peters is near the end of his career and without question the Eagles are prepared for his nonparticipation. That's what well run organizations do.

 

I disagree with you that Peters has no chance of getting into the HOF. Will he? I can't say  for sure but what I can so for sure is that he will be seriously considered. You may not be aware of it but he has had a long and distinguished career with the SB Champs and has over an extended period of time been a perennial all-pro. 

 

 

Good LT.  but no HOF.  I disagree.  Mainly it's my bias against the real value of a single O-lineman.  And Pro Bowls are nice but worthless for this purpose.

[Sky Diver]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Good LT.  but no HOF.  I disagree.  Mainly it's my bias against the real value of a single O-lineman.  And Pro Bowls are nice but worthless for this purpose.

 

More than good, elite. Not sure about the HOF though. Maybe.

[C.Biscuit97]

12 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Curious on what has you so passionate about this.  

 

I've been enjoying the back and forth by all...

I just think it’s funny that people are defending him and acting like he’s some good guy.  He basically just said f you to the Bills.  Even without the Martin incident, this was a shaky guy.  We did him a huge favor and he basically screwed us over.  I wish him the worst as a football player.

16 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Never met him so I have no idea. I do know that he was our best lineman last year so I don't get making him a low ball offer. Shady wanted him back badly.

HE DIDNT HAVE TO AGREE TO IT!

[JackKemp]

12 hours ago, Logic said:

I can't see how this is so hard for people to understand.

Beane and McDermott value chemistry and culture above all else. They have shown that they will not hesitate to get rid of ANYONE who they don't think will positively contribute to the chemistry and culture of the locker room.

Richie Incognito, with his erratic behavior, sudden instability, and the drama that his "I'm retired, no I'm not, I want my release, can I come back?" routine was creating, became a threat to the chemistry and culture that Beane and McDermott wanted to build. They thus decided that the best move was to get rid of him, even if it meant "giving him what he wants" and losing some bonus money. People thinking we were going to get a trade asset in return for a 34-year-old guard who has recently displayed erratic behavior are dreaming. I believe that Beane assessed that the tiny silver of potential of getting a 2019 7th round pick in exchange for this guy was not worth the headaches he was beginning to create. 

As to the notion of holding on to Incognito's rights so that his only options are retire or play for the Bills. Why? It was one thing with Boldin, who agreed to play for the Bills, then 10 days into camp retired, then asked if he could be let out of his contract. Beane felt burned by Boldin's failure to honor his commitment and reacted accordingly. With Richie, he had three good years with the Bills and was a key part of their playoff season. Why hold him hostage? Especially given the aforementioned headaches he is creating.

Sometimes, addition by subtraction is necessary to maintain intangible qualities like chemistry and culture. I believe this is one of those cases.

Exactly 100%. Incognito was at the end of his career and was no longer willing to play along with the new team culture. So we say goodbye to someone that the Bills resurrected. Great contribution for three years. Now we move on with the young players already on the roster.

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just think it’s funny that people are defending him and acting like he’s some good guy.  He basically just said f you to the Bills.  Even without the Martin incident, this was a shaky guy.  We did him a huge favor and he basically screwed us over.  I wish him the worst as a football player.

HE DIDNT HAVE TO AGREE TO IT!

At this point I dont even agree that he was out best linemen.

 

Dawkins was in my opinion.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I have zero doubts that Beane tried to trade him but found no takers. 

 

Which cuts to the “what’s his value” question

 

 

a lot of folks are saying he didn’t deserve the pay cut but we couldn’t get anyone to drop a 7th for his reduced contract with signing bonus already paid?

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Which cuts to the “what’s his value” question

 

 

a lot of folks are saying he didn’t deserve the pay cut but we couldn’t get anyone to drop a 7th for his reduced contract with signing bonus already paid?

 

He's got one year left and might have been looking for a decent-sized long-term deal with a  new team.  I don't know.  It will be interesting to see where, if anywhere, he ends up, and for how much.

[NoSaint]

18 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I just think it’s funny that people are defending him and acting like he’s some good guy.  He basically just said f you to the Bills.  Even without the Martin incident, this was a shaky guy.  We did him a huge favor and he basically screwed us over.  I wish him the worst as a football player.

HE DIDNT HAVE TO AGREE TO IT!

 

From a handful I think it’s less about football and more so identity politics. If ritchie is a schmuck and relic of the past - we have a few posters that aren’t far removed from that status. Have to keep him a viable person or it’s a slippery slope to not being viable themselves. 

 

Dude agreed to reduced pay and no one wants to trade for him... seems the bills pay cut was pretty fair. Ritchie’s pay will never match his skill because he comes with mountains of baggage. 

[Nick the Greek]

19 minutes ago, JackKemp said:

Exactly 100%. Incognito was at the end of his career and was no longer willing to play along with the new team culture. So we say goodbye to someone that the Bills resurrected. Great contribution for three years. Now we move on with the young players already on the roster.

Agree as well with the exception that they paid him a signing bonus that he doesn’t have to pay back. I can’t see Pegula or the team being happy have paid a player over $1 million only to cut the guy. That’s no way to run a business, and Pegula is a darn good business man. 

[YoloinOhio]

13 hours ago, Lfod said:

People are taking it hard. I feel sorry for them. They do not understand the new culture yet. They are not used to being winners yet. They are stuck back in the drought mentality of holding on to things that make them think the team is a little better when it wasn't. 

This post needs pinned. It pertains to so much of hanging onto things like “we were the top rushing team” “we had highlight plays” “we broke the sack record” and my personal favorite... “top 10 in scoring” — none of it meant a thing because the team didn’t win enough games with what was in place. They were just something positive to cling to in absence of wins. Good teams don’t care about that stuff if it results in less than playoff progress.

[GG]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Am I missing something? I only saw one reference to a possible drunken rampage, and it was secondhand  from a freaking OBD security guard. That's approaching cab-driver-for-Seifert level. The person who posted it may well be credible, but he has only 90 posts so I'm not buying - yet. KtD, who I trust, made an oblique comment hinting at ... something, but said nothing specific. 

 

There's enough in here and from what I heard make me believe it's true.  It's also not in the Pegula's history to just dump a player if there's a chance at rehabbing him.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

So let’s say Hughes wants out. He goes on a 4 day twitter bender and drunk dials the pegulas- that gets him out of his contract?

 

i only mentioned the pats because you did

He did because I did. But you got my original point. Player B just wants out for any reason. Forget age. Forget a specific other team. He just throws a fake tantrum and “because he’s a detriment to the team” the Bills just release him. It’s a bad precedent. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He did because I did. But you got my original point. Player B just wants out for any reason. Forget age. Forget a specific other team. He just throws a fake tantrum and “because he’s a detriment to the team” the Bills just release him. It’s a bad precedent. 

 

Good luck getting the 3.6 million back after the repeated strange behavior.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Nobody forced him to take a pay cut.

 

didn't he fire his agent? Must have sold him a bill of goods.

 

 

6 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

So you’re cool with it at what age cutoff? 

 

And whats the mechanism for blocking the pats signing? Do we make them pinky swear prior to release?

 

I hope we win the super bowl. But my loyalty tends to be towards the team ... not so much the meatheads of the league. 

 

I hope we win too but I'm not optimistic about the Super Bowl  this year (maybe next year tho  )

 

 

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, GG said:

 

There's enough in here and from what I heard make me believe it's true.  It's also not in the Pegula's history to just dump a player if there's a chance at rehabbing him.

I now believe you based on other things I've heard. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

 

More than good, elite. Not sure about the HOF though. Maybe.

 

When your lower tier replacement gets you your only SB ring, you may not be Elite...