Punching Bag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: But can the Bills keep Richie on the reserve/retired list if he chose to unretire (which is what was reported)? Don't they have to take him off the list? Or no? I kind of thought that was why they released him - Richie was unretiring and the Bills didn't want him back in the clubhouse, so it kind of forced their hand. Maybe I just misunderstood things, though. Players will sometimes unretire at wrong time (Orton did that to Cowpokes) and force them to be released when team does not have cap space or not want to give up a player who will be on roster. it is pretty poor action IMO and hurts your rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Peter said: This "addition by subtraction" bit is becoming as tiresome as McBeane stealing Nick Saban's "process" mantra. Ultimately, subtraction ends up being just that. There was no indication that Incognito was a bad teammate. In fact, the contrary is demonstrably true. Ask Shady or anyone else including Dawkins. In fact, while Dawkins had a good rookie year, I wonder how much of that was facilitated by the fact that he was playing next to a veteran pro bowl guard. There also is no indication that Incognito would have been unhappy with the original contract that he and the Bills signed. I also have to believe that cooler heads on both sides could have come up with a middle ground. Instead, we are down one pro bowl offensive lineman (and another starter on the line). That is not a good recipe for our QB (whoever it may be) or Shady. As for your reference to rumors about a drunken call with Pegula, they seem to be just that. What you describe as me "pissing in the wind," in actuality, is me just being realistic about the fact that we are now missing our pro bowl guard and, to add insult to injury, we have $1.15 million in yet more dead money against the cap. In any event, we disagree. God bless. Just because you find a phrase tiresome doesn't mean it's not an accurate depiction. You think cooler heads would prevail, but to use your words, there was no indication that cooler heads didn't prevail when he signed the new contract. There is also every indication that since that time we've watched one party willingly dump $1.15M instead of trying to work something out while you watch the other party act like a 2-year-old. Do you think you're the only one who understands the money is dead? Do you think the owners are unaware of what they've done? Or are you so convinced Incognito is the victim that you can't accept that maybe the grownups know what they're doing by dumping the headcase before the season starts. The 'pissing in the wind' comment simply about one truth: you refuse to look at Incognito as anything other than the victim in this case while being unable to understand the difference between $1.15M in dead cap money and a small fee to pay get dump a headcase. Incognito is gone, and while a bad line is now a worse line, the team no longer has to waste time with an unstable manchild and can finally move ahead with purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 5 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: For the record I liked 'cog. I think he plays hard every down and is very skilled. I also think he's completely wrong in how he handled it. So do I. I thought he was a good redemption story. I was trying to get him for a charity event, a charity he says he has supported in past but will not now. Too risky. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Limeaid said: So do I. I thought he was a good redemption story. I was trying to get him for a charity event, a charity he says he has supported in past but will not now. Too risky. He was one of the best pick ups in years, and he worked very hard to correct his behavior. Likewise, that was a huge leap of faith by the front office at the time, a fact lost on Incognito in the midst of his social media meltdown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Players will sometimes unretire at wrong time (Orton did that to Cowpokes) and force them to be released when team does not have cap space or not want to give up a player who will be on roster. it is pretty poor action IMO and hurts your rep. I agree. I personally kind of think this might have been Richie's plan all along - to retire and cause a scene, then unretire knowing full well the Bills won't want him back (or would have already replaced him by then). Therefore forcing his release and allowing him to keep his bonus and sign a new contract elsewhere. My main point (in my previous response) was that I didn't believe the Bills were allowed to keep him on the reserve/retired list if he unretired. I wasn't 100% sure on that, though. But I believe that either way him unretiring probably forced the Bills hand. I don't know that they can just ban him from the building if he's under contract? I believe they probably had to either allow him to start practicing in Buffalo, or cut him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: He was one of the best pick ups in years, and he worked very hard to correct his behavior. Likewise, that was a huge leap of faith by the front office at the time, a fact lost on Incognito in the midst of his social media meltdown. Amazing how quickly Richie forgot how toxic he was to the league in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Maybe he was cut because he really is a scumbag?http://www.tmz.com/2018/05/23/richie-incognito-florida-gym-altercation-cops-called/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: Maybe he was cut because he really is a scumbag?http://www.tmz.com/2018/05/23/richie-incognito-florida-gym-altercation-cops-called/ I choose to believe 'throwing a dumbbell' to mean that he launched himself head-long into someone else. What a plank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 “The alleged victim says Incognito was rambling about the government and screaming at the man to ‘get off my f****** playground.'” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Gugny said: “The alleged victim says Incognito was rambling about the government and screaming at the man to ‘get off my f****** playground.'” That WHOOOSH sound you just heard was a collective sigh of relief at OBD... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: But I believe that either way him unretiring probably forced the Bills hand. I don't know that they can just ban him from the building if he's under contract? I believe they probably had to either allow him to start practicing in Buffalo, or cut him? As far as I understand if the team had the guts they could just ban him from building except for possibly therapy covered under contract and other such business but not release him until final cut day or even day of first game. They would have to explain to team why they did this and it was in best interest to team including players that someone not be able to manipulate team like that. Most teams do not have that guts or to tell shady agents we will not deal with you but will enforce any rights we have on current contract. Any example from my career I moved from Buffalo to Northern Virginia for a job and agreement was they would pay for moving expenses and give me an advance on salary (some of it effectively a signing bonus) but it would have to be repaid if I left within a year or was dismissed for some very specific things such as fraud on application, resume, etc. I was not sure I wanted to move permanently so I did not move my items to Northern Virginia. Contract did not specify when I needed to move my stuff and I told them that and that I was currently subleasing a bedroom and did not have room for items. After 10 months I decided I was going to stay, found an apartment and then arranged items to be moved in 11th month of employment. Employment office said they never saw that before and I said I just followed contract and since they cold dismiss me and force me payback advance and moving expenses AND I'd have to pay to move back. I was told "Well played, we will need to consider rewording contracts in future." but they paid expenses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: “The alleged victim says Incognito was rambling about the government and screaming at the man to ‘get off my f****** playground.'” This is one case where I desperately want to see the CCTV video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Skipped a step. Player can retire Player can unretire Team then has to make decision, do they want unretired player on their roster (and release someone else to make room), or no? Team decides no and releases player Player can then play for another team It's pretty unusual, I'll grant you that 16 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I agree. I personally kind of think this might have been Richie's plan all along - to retire and cause a scene, then unretire knowing full well the Bills won't want him back (or would have already replaced him by then). Therefore forcing his release and allowing him to keep his bonus and sign a new contract elsewhere. My main point (in my previous response) was that I didn't believe the Bills were allowed to keep him on the reserve/retired list if he unretired. I wasn't 100% sure on that, though. But I believe that either way him unretiring probably forced the Bills hand. I don't know that they can just ban him from the building if he's under contract? I believe they probably had to either allow him to start practicing in Buffalo, or cut him? That seems to be exactly what has happened. Here are the CBA rules over the signing bonus if he retired. (vi) Retirement. Should a Forfeitable Breach occur due to player’s retire-ment, a Club may demand repayment of all Forfeitable Salary Allocations attributable to the proportionate amount, if any, for the present year and the Forfeitable Salary Alloca-tions for future years. If the player fails to repay such amounts, then the Club may seek an award from the System Arbitrator pursuant to Article 15, for repayment of all Forfeit-able Salary Allocations attributable to present and future years. Repayment of Forfeitable Salary Allocations attributable to future League Years must be made by June 1st of each League Year for which each Forfeitable Salary Allocation is attributable. If the player returns to play for the Club in the subsequent season, then the Club must either (a) take the player back under his existing contract with no forfeiture of the remaining Forfeita-ble Salary Allocations, or (b) release the player and seek repayment of any remaining Forfeitable Salary Allocations for future League Years. (b) Forfeitable Salary Allocations. For the purposes of this Section, the term "Forfeitable Salary Allocations" means: (i) for signing bonus, the Salary Cap alloca-tion for the player’s signing bonus for that League Year; and (ii) for roster, option and reporting bonuses that are earned in the same League Year as the Forfeitable Breach, the allocation of such bonus for that League Year, out of the total amount of such bonus as allocated over that League Year and any remaining League Years in the player’s contract, notwithstanding the Salary Cap treatment of such bonuses. For example, without limita-tion, if a player has a $1 million roster bonus that is earned in the same year the player committed a Forfeitable Breach, then, regardless of when that roster bonus is to be paid, that bonus is attributable to the same year as the Forfeitable Breach; if the player has that year and one additional year remaining on his contract, then $500,000 of the roster bo-nus will be allocated to each of those years for purposes of any potential forfeiture calculation. If the Forfeitable Breach occurs in the second League Year in this example (i.e., the League Year after the roster bonus in this example is earned), there shall be no forfeiture of any portion of such roster bonus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Richie needs to get back on his meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: Maybe he was cut because he really is a scumbag?http://www.tmz.com/2018/05/23/richie-incognito-florida-gym-altercation-cops-called/ It's almost like you'd pay $1.15M to make him someone else's problem or something. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Richie needs to get back on his meds. Not good. You only get Baker Acted if you're declared incapable or a threat to yourself or others. Not good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Richie needs to get back on his meds. Well there you go. I wonder if Ritchie was showing this type of behavior for a while. If so, it may indicate that the Bill's redid his contract for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Richie needs to get back on his meds. Please tell me he's not bunking with Jonathan Martin... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Zay Jones thinks that’s crazy. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Since they took Zay Jones back maybe after Richie has some medical/mental health attention the Bills will tell him they will take him back under conditions. I wonder how long they need to pay for insurance or does NFLPA or NFL do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: Not good. You only get Baker Acted if you're declared incapable or a threat to yourself or others. Not good at all. I underwent something similar last year and it really does stir up some horrible memories. I just hope that he can get back on track because I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Not looking good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Limeaid said: Since they took Zay Jones back maybe after Richie has some medical/mental health attention the Bills will tell him they will take him back under conditions. I wonder how long they need to pay for insurance or does NFLPA or NFL do that. Doubt it. He’s completely burned that bridge, IMO. Along with Ray Rice and Colin Keapernick....welcome to the NFL black list, Ritchie. I hope he gets help, but I never want to see him in a Bills uni ever again. Buh bye ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Good on the Bills for completely cutting ties with him the other day. Very smart move by Beane & Co. this dude went from a good soldier to back to being a mess. I’m sure it started again behind the scenes last year but I feel like it really turned after Jax playoff game. When he was accused of saying some nasty things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Joe Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 This thread could go on for a very long time. Maybe it needs to be re-titled 'The downward spiral of Ritchie Incognito" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 This is exactly what I worried/mused about upthread - Ritchie's story is looking like it isn't going to end well. Really hope he gets help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 So does Ritchie have interest from other teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said: So does Ritchie have interest from other teams? I hear the Bengals are sniffing around. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Golden Goat said: Please tell me he's not bunking with Jonathan Martin... In the good old days they would have arranged a WWE showdown between those two.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: So does Ritchie have interest from other teams? Depends. When does the XFL start again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, zow2 said: Good on the Bills for completely cutting ties with him the other day. Very smart move by Beane & Co. this dude went from a good soldier to back to being a mess. I’m sure it started again behind the scenes last year but I feel like it really turned after Jax playoff game. When he was accused of saying some nasty things. If they didn't mess with his money he would still be a good soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, KD in CA said: In the good old days they would have arranged a WWE showdown between those two.... Now that's some quality TV right there. I don't think Martin would make it past Alexa Bliss in the qualifier, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: So does Ritchie have interest from other teams? Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Probably not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: If they didn't mess with his money he would still be a good soldier. And you know this how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: If they didn't mess with his money he would still be a good soldier. You're joking right? Please tell us you're joking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: And you know this how? because he would have had no reason to "retire" and would have just followed the regular offseason program he had been doing since he got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said: because he would have had no reason to "retire" and would have just followed the regular offseason program he had been doing since he got here. Orrrrr....whatever is happening to him wasn't triggered by his contract. You are making some large assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: You're joking right? Please tell us you're joking. Why would he have retired if they did not renegotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: If they didn't mess with his money he would still be a good soldier. He. Signed. The. Reduced. Contract. Nobody "messed with his money". 5 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: You're joking right? Please tell us you're joking. Sadly, probably not. 1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Why would he have retired if they did not renegotiate. Why would he sign a contract he wasn't okay with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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