Victory Formation Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) I like McCarron's upside, but at the end of the day I don't think he is the answer. I don't think Beane and McD feel that way either. You don't ignore every big name free agent QB on the market and sign the last guy that's left if you are serious about finding a long term starter and you sure as heck don't pay 5 million a year to be a 'starter'. It's pretty obvious we are going to draft a QB high and it's very likely that the rookie will start sometime during the 2018 season. Best case scenario is that McCarron is a gem and we have two good QBs on the roster. Edited March 15, 2018 by NewDayBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, ProcessTheTrust said: If AJ can be that guy he showed in his few starts, AJ all day. That guy on this team would blow our minds and make it hard for the coaches to make the transition to the rookie. That said, I think TT will be a great fit for Cleveland. I think Hue will know how to get the most out of him, not trying to squeeze him into a pocket guy. Draft Barkley 1st overall and have the nastiest backfield (Barkley/Hyde/TT) in the league. Would people really be happy with ~180 yards passing? Thats what he averaged in his 3 starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Tyrod wasn't a bridge... Just a muddy path you could walk across when the tide was low... If the tide was high, he was invisible, and therefore useless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 IMHO ... I don't think McCarron was obtained to be a "bridge QB" (what ever the heck that is). McDermott is all about earning the right to compete. I think it was evident last season the Tylor was NOT the guy McDermott wanted to lead the Bills into the future, so I feel his and Beane's plan all along was to establish a QB room filled with young players with some sort of "upside" (what ever the heck that is) to compete for the starting job. That's not to say we aren't drafting a QB in the first round, or even trading up further for a "blue chip" (what ever the heck that means) QB. But keep in mind they will not let talent force them to over pay whatever value they have assigned to a particular player. If I were to put on my Nostradumbass beanie, their plan is to trade up to pick #3 if their guy is available, and the Colts aren't expecting a kings ransom ... but I could easily see them staying pat at #12 and picking BPA until a QB coincides with their perceived value. I think their strategy is that it's more probable to succeed with three chances that one will stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 AJM is almost exactly what Tyrod was when a came to buffalo- a back up with very little game experience. He might be better, might be worse.... no one knows. It won’t take too many games to figure out which way it is, unless it’s so close we can’t tell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalostu2 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I believe that Tyrod is a better player but McCarron, pick 65 and $6M (or whatever it is) in cap space is a superior situation. Once they trade up I think that they will be in much better shape at the position. Beane has really set this team up nicely. They don’t have a ton of talent today but they have a lot of resources to add that talent. They have been responsible patient. It is an exciting time IMO. The pick at 65 is nice but not better than 2-4 more wins next season. The reality is Cap Space does not make plays and even if you have a ton of cap space free agents are hesitant to go to Buffalo and even more so if we post 6 wins next season with McCarron which is my projection. Tyrod was the better bridge because we could continue to build and win games and he could also teach a rookie about hard work which wasn't a question with Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 44 minutes ago, Figster said: The rookie won't be starting IMO Allen is a project... Well hopefully it’s not Allen who the Bills draft lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 A point both moot and mute, since AJ is here, Tie-rod ain't. Next.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I'd prefer the guy that will thrown for 150 + a game with consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTheTrust Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, ngbills said: Would people really be happy with ~180 yards passing? Thats what he averaged in his 3 starts. Cliché answer - if they win. The idea of what he was supposed to be here could be realized there with a competent offensive mind AND the supporting cast he needs. I'm no TT fan, but I think when he has all the pieces and is used correctly, he's a weapon. The key statement - IF he has all the pieces. I was never sold on him here because I quickly realized he can't carry a team. He just plays his role. My guess is Barkley #1 and one of the big 3 QBs at #4. Undergo their version of a TT experiment and pull the plug if it doesn't come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 18 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Tyrods gone. He’s on his way to becoming the next notch on this jersey Aj all day. That’s a funny jersey, but sad. It just goes to show how crazy the Browns will be to not take QB at #1. If they take a RB they are truly nuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said: Now that we have our "Bridge "QB, I got to thinking, did we trade Tyrod too soon? I , for one, am glad that we signed AJ McCarron. I am not a Tyrod hatter, but I can understand that McBeane wanted to move on from the Wrex experiment. But given the limited experience of McCarron and the fact that Tyrod did enough (with some luck) to get the bills to the playoffs, should we have kept TT as our Bridge? Sorry but I find the question even ridiculous. Taylor is not a pro starting quarterback. Why haven’t some of you figured that out. No, he did not get us to the playoffs. We made it to the playoffs in spite of him. No one except a few people on this board would ever in 1 million years see Taylor as a franchise quarterback in the NFL. AJ has that distinct possibility. It may not turn out to be the case. But then again it could. Honestly, I just don’t get it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I think it depends on what you want from a "bridge" QB. If you want a guy to definitely start next year as you make a playoff push, because your rookie is definitely not ready, then Tyrod. (I think he's better than AJ, although there's a chance that AJ proves me wrong.) But I don't think that's what the Bills are going for. I think they plan to take a rookie QB in the top 12 (probably top 5), and ideally, they would like him to start from day 1. But they don't want him to have to start, and they don't want him to just be handed the job. So I think they wanted a veteran backup with some upside, who wouldn't totally kill us if he has to start 8-16 games if the rookie isn't ready. And at $5-$8 million a year, McCarron seems a good fit for that role. Add in the #65 pick, and I think that the Bills look very good in this exchange. Of course, they need to hit on the rookie QB, because I'll be shocked if McCarron winds up as the answer. As for Cleveland, I think they want to be at least semi-respectable next year. They went 0-16 last year, which is shameful. And they have the #1 and #4 picks this year - if those can't help them turn it around, why should anyone think another #1 pick will help next year? So I think they traded for Tyrod with the idea that he would be their Jon Kitna to #1 overall's Carson Palmer. I think they're hoping to go something like 8-8 under Tyrod, let him walk, and turn things over to whomever they draft this year. They'd probably be fine with the rookie beating out Taylor at some point this year, but that's Plan B. Plus, if the rookie can beat out a certified Pro Bowl and playoff QB, that's a pretty high bar, so the rookie must be doing well. On the other hand, the Bills just made the playoffs, so they have some cachet - we all want them to go back next year, but if they don't, it won't be an existential crisis like the last 10 or so years of the drought. And everything from McDermott and Beane says that they're building long-term and are concerned with sustainable success. (And that's great!) I think they know they were pretty lucky to make the playoffs last year, and know they have a long way to go, and are willing to risk taking a step back to take several steps forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 If you need to actually win games to save your job........Tyrod.......by a lot. If you *hope* to have a winning season but can withstand a bad one.......AJM. In a nutshell that is why TT is in Cleveland and AJM is in Buffalo. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, Mojo44 said: Sorry but I find the question even ridiculous. Taylor is not a pro starting quarterback. Why haven’t some of you figured that out. No, he did not get us to the playoffs. We made it to the playoffs in spite of him. No one except a few people on this board would ever in 1 million years see Taylor as a franchise quarterback in the NFL. AJ has that distinct possibility. It may not turn out to be the case. But then again it could. Honestly, I just don’t get it! Starting QB and franchise QB are two different things. You can’t use them interchangeably. Tyrod will be a starter for a 4th consecutive season. You can’t say that “he is not a starter.” I don’t know how many see Tyrod or McCarron as a franchise QB? I don’t see a lot of that on here (and never did). The franchise QB will hopefully be acquired in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 one has shown what he can do, which was not that good, especially last season. he would still be here if he were that good. the other has an opportunity and yet to be determined but I feel McCarron is going to be much better delivering the ball, a better passer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 AJ of course . He will be a better fit for what we are trying to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: one has shown what he can do, which was not that good, especially last season. he would still be here if he were that good. the other has an opportunity and yet to be determined but I feel McCarron is going to be much better delivering the ball, a better passer. Agree. I would guess as far as being a pocket passer AJ would be the better bridge, but yes, it still remains to be seen though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 AJ isnt necessarily just a bridge. Hes a viable alternative as a long term starter if the rookie doesnt pan out (or they cant make the trade up to draft their guy.) Its a “dont put all your eggs in one basket” move. Its akin to Washingon drafting Cousins. If the Bills draft a QB this year they now have two guys who may end up being the answer instead of just the one. TT was never going to be the long term solution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I'm gonna go ahead and say Andy Dalton's backup is far and away the worse QB, but based on our needs he makes more sense at a cheap price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 A TT comparison thread? I mean, even Transplant has moved on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Starting QB and franchise QB are two different things. You can’t use them interchangeably. Tyrod will be a starter for a 4th consecutive season. You can’t say that “he is not a starter.” I don’t know how many see Tyrod or McCarron as a franchise QB? I don’t see a lot of that on here (and never did). The franchise QB will hopefully be acquired in the draft. I am quite aware of the difference. Apparently we disagree. In my opinion AJ was brought on not as a “bridge“ or any other architectural structure. He was brought on to compete for the starting position and possibly lead this team to a Super Bowl. I am not saying he is a franchise quarterback. However he very well could be. He’s got a terrific skill set and, he has a mug load of intangibles that keeps on running over. It may not happen but I wouldn’t bet against either. Also, when is this inaneNarrative that Taylor was ever a good quarterback going to end! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Figster said: The rookie won't be starting IMO Allen is a project... We are taking a QB in the top 4 so it would have to be Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold! Now if we are waiting til the end of the first too get our QB then Allen it may be, but why would McBeane be trying to move up so much if they where drafting Allen? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Mojo44 said: I am quite aware of the difference. Apparently we disagree. In my opinion AJ was brought on not as a “bridge“ or any other architectural structure. He was brought on to compete for the starting position and possibly lead this team to a Super Bowl. I am not saying he is a franchise quarterback. However he very well could be. He’s got a terrific skill set and, he has a mug load of intangibles that keeps on running over. It may not happen but I wouldn’t bet against either. Also, when is this inaneNarrative that Taylor was ever a good quarterback going to end! He was paid half of what Josh McCown was paid!! He was paid in line with Brian Hoyer. That isn’t future QB money. It isn’t even what the placeholder QBs got!! It is backup money. I think McCarron has a chance to be a bridge guy and okay but let’s be real. I’m not sure the narrative that you are talking about. I said that he will be a starter for the 4th straight year. I’m not sure people are debating that. He was 23-20 as a starter. You could certainly do worse. The hope that we all have is that the guy you draft is better. There is obviously no guarantee. McCarron was brought here to raise the floor of Peterman and a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said: Now that we have our "Bridge "QB, I got to thinking, did we trade Tyrod too soon? I , for one, am glad that we signed AJ McCarron. I am not a Tyrod hatter, but I can understand that McBeane wanted to move on from the Wrex experiment. But given the limited experience of McCarron and the fact that Tyrod did enough (with some luck) to get the bills to the playoffs, should we have kept TT as our Bridge? No because there might possibly be no bridge and Tryod would have cost way to much to be a back up. It will probably be a competition for the starting job. Also, we got a guy locked up for 2 years on the cheap where Tyrod would have cost more and left after 1 season. Thirdly, I think AJ will probably be a better qb than Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Tyrod is the bridge you jump off of.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said: Bridge - Tyrod Bridge Quarterback - McCarron Yes. With the same roster Tyrod will win 1-2 more games a season. But having a McCarron will be better for transition to the franchise quartback, in terms of e.g. development of pass protection schemes and recruitment of receiver free agents who want to keep their career stats up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 40 minutes ago, macaroni said: IMHO ... I don't think McCarron was obtained to be a "bridge QB" (what ever the heck that is). McDermott is all about earning the right to compete. I think it was evident last season the Tylor was NOT the guy McDermott wanted to lead the Bills into the future, so I feel his and Beane's plan all along was to establish a QB room filled with young players with some sort of "upside" (what ever the heck that is) to compete for the starting job. That's not to say we aren't drafting a QB in the first round, or even trading up further for a "blue chip" (what ever the heck that means) QB. But keep in mind they will not let talent force them to over pay whatever value they have assigned to a particular player. If I were to put on my Nostradumbass beanie, their plan is to trade up to pick #3 if their guy is available, and the Colts aren't expecting a kings ransom ... but I could easily see them staying pat at #12 and picking BPA until a QB coincides with their perceived value. I think their strategy is that it's more probable to succeed with three chances that one will stand out. That is a good perspective. I agree that McDermott and Beane are working their plan to perfection and will not overpay for players. 1 hour ago, Magox said: I don't know, I will let you know at the end of the season. You are a man of vision.LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNootz Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 McCarron + 65th pick + 6-7 million dollars more in cap space to surround the rookie with talent is a far better "Bridge QB" scenario than what we had a week ago. I honestly believe that Tyrod will be a good stabilizing factor for Cleveland, but I like our chances of becoming more than just an annual Wild Card contender more today than I did last week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I believe that Tyrod is a better player but McCarron, pick 65 and $6M (or whatever it is) in cap space is a superior situation. Once they trade up I think that they will be in much better shape at the position. Beane has really set this team up nicely. They don’t have a ton of talent today but they have a lot of resources to add that talent. They have been responsible patient. It is an exciting time IMO. Tyrod is only the better player because he is more of a known. McCarron has the potential to be better than TT. Otherwise, this is the answer. Edited March 15, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Charlie Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Just as many great fan as there are in Buffalo there are just as many loud mouths that think they know way more about football than they do. After the Jacksonville game I realized that we would have a new QB this year but how could you have anything but love for a guy who embraced the city went from carrer back up to 2x pro bowler and broke the playoff curse. It almost seems personal for some I wonder why Edited March 15, 2018 by Madd Charlie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Remember it's McCarron, more cap savings AND the first pick in the 3rd round which we really need. To be honest, most of the throws I've watched from McCarron has been AJ Green making him look good. But he's got some talent and he's 4 year seasoned so I'd make that trade every time. As much as I loved TT, the 3 point playoff game was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 So hard to compare the two. Totally different players. The WR production will definitely be better with AJ but he lacks the running ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: So hard to compare the two. Totally different players. The WR production will definitely be better with AJ but he lacks the running ability. He is QB. He should be expected to throw the ball. As long as he has some pocket presence, him being not as mobile as Tyrod isn't a bad thing. I want a QB that throws the ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, Madd Charlie said: Just as many great fan as there are in Buffalo there are just as many loud mouths that think they know way more about football than they do. After the Jacksonville game I realized that we would have a new QB this year but how could you have anything but love for a guy who embraced the city went from carrer back up to 2x pro bowler and broke the playoff curse. It almost seems personal for some I wonder why This. Tyrod may not ever have been the long term answer. But he did the best he could and the best he could with the weapons he had. Dont blame Tyrod for the that. Its like he was the Owner, GM and Coach and declared himself the starter because he is the boss. Tyrod did more for this team than many of QB's could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, Madd Charlie said: Just as many great fan as there are in Buffalo there are just as many loud mouths that think they know way more about football than they do. After the Jacksonville game I realized that we would have a new QB this year but how could you have anything but love for a guy who embraced the city went from carrer back up to 2x pro bowler and broke the playoff curse. It almost seems personal for some I wonder why Great Post. I realize the Tyrod detractors just want the bills to win, but you are right. We owe a great deal to TT and I wish him only the pest in his future career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, snamsnoops said: He is QB. He should be expected to throw the ball. As long as he has some pocket presence, him being not as mobile as Tyrod isn't a bad thing. I want a QB that throws the ball! Go watch tape of AJM and Tyrod throws. I think Tyrod actually throws a much better ball than him. It is overblown that Tyrod is not able to throw the ball. I think the issue was 1) Tyrod seemed to hesitate more the past couple years. Was this all on him? Coaching? Lack of WR's and comfort with them? 2) Playcalling - way to predictable and conservative. 3) Weapons? No #1 WR and really not even legit #2, at least healthy ones. Go look at AJM tape. He is not he most accurate guy and does not have a ton of arm strength. I see a lot of N Peterman in him. Without some help from WR/TE's in CInci I think AJM would not even be talked about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Big, if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I will base this step by step from college to present. College: AJ McCarron was easily the better college player. Time as a back up QB: AJM won 50% of his games as a back up and should've won the playoff game vs the Steelers. Taylor really didn't get much playing time and his trade value while with the Ravens was never talked about. Winner AJM. At present Taylor has started 3 years in Buffalo and has ranked in the bottom 5 teams in passing yards for all 3 years. Their are a 100 other stats I could bring up but I will say his overall view as a QB is below average. AJM has always been behind Andy Dalton, he has played well when Dalton has been injured. My opinion of AJM is that he will be the best QB out of all the FA QB's. I think he will be a upgrade over Taylor and is the better QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liverpoolkev Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I believe that Tyrod is a better player but McCarron, pick 65 and $6M (or whatever it is) in cap space is a superior situation. Once they trade up I think that they will be in much better shape at the position. Beane has really set this team up nicely. They don’t have a ton of talent today but they have a lot of resources to add that talent. They have been responsible patient. It is an exciting time IMO. Mc Beane set this up for an epic fail.....they don't have any talent except at secondary which thank goodness he could not mess up.......QB got on the cheap , traded valuable picks for two broken down receivers. This regime is over their head when the losses come in buckets because of our good ole boy drafting the pitch forks will come out. We need quality football players and to date we got older, lighter( in more ways than one) ,and talent drained in fact we went down in quality across the board based on every thing they touched so far.2-14 here we come Buffalo Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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