Should we try to trade Shaq?

[BringBackOrton]

If you move Shaq, you have to find another DE.  If we get a 4th round pick, we may get a player better than Shaq but we may get a player much much worse.

 

His contract isn't so bad right now.  The first round pick cost is sunk.  Hang on to him and hope he wakes up a different player.

[GreggTX]

25 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Lawson was another wasted 1st round pick from the Whaley era. 

When you go back and look at the guys we drafted during the Whaley/Nix years, it's nothing short of a complete disaster. 

 

This team has zero players to build around. It's shocking how bare the cupboard is. 

I dunno. I think we're pretty average overall. I also think White, Jones and Dawkins have bright futures. We also have a lot of picks and will save some of that huge contract money from Dareus. The real #1 question for Bills fans now is "How well can Beane draft?" If he nails those picks on day 1 and 2 of the draft ands gets a QB, whole new ballgame.

[SoCal Deek]

The only reason to release Shaq is because we're all pretty disappointed in the return on investment for a First Round Draft Pick.  However trading him is not going to make that lack of return any less painful.  Keep him.  He isn't hurting anything.  The Team is going to need some solid players in their prime.  But stop dreaming that he is suddenly going to be Bruce Smith.

[iinii]

All depends on what the buyer will give. 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

Shaq doesn't look at all like a 1st round pick at this point. Some points to consider.

1. He is still less than 25 games into his NFL career.

2. What could we get for him? Would it be worth it?

3. Is he worth the money we're paying him now (disregarding present injury) or should we just move him and free up cap space that might be better spent?

 

Does it look like he's playing like a second round pick?  The guy is making $2.5 million base salary and the Bills can exercise a fifth year if they want.  He's good against the run and can get to the QB often enough.  He's slow off the snap and he hasn't been on the field enough, I suppose.  You've got to give him more time and you're not going to get his quality in return.

 

[Jay_Fixit]

I don’t think Shaq is very good. I didn’t think so before he was drafted and I don’t think so after he’s played in the NFL.

 

I think of the Bills can get something of value for him, they should do it.

 

Bad pick. Average player.

[Fadingpain]

1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Doubt they'd get much of anything for him. So probably not yet anyways. He may get better and make more of an impact next season. Unless he is straight up beat out by someone else. Then maybe they will entertain the idea. I'm sure they will be making some changes with the Dline anyways so time will tell. No telling what this FO will do.

Agree.  Don't think his trade value is anything, so keep him while he is still cheap.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, inaugural balls said:

Ok - but I'm warning you. If this is a part of the "process", there's going to be an awful lot of pissed off nancy's around here.

 

A - LOT

People will be pissed if Shaq is traded? I Don’t get the impression anyone is too excited about him. I don’t care either way but would prefer a decent return. 

 

Thr interestng part to me is he seems like a McD type of player. Football minded, works hard, on field effort. played through injuries in college, lots of heart, positive attitude. I’m just not sure he’s shown enough on the field to be “untouchable” on the trade block. I don’t think they will give him away, but I think if offered a good deal they wlll feel comfortable moving on.

 

I think  OBD is going to have a busy offseason and there will be some “surprising” moves as they continue to build the team they want. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Mr. WEO]

He was damaged goods when he was drafted (slow Doug Whaley's goofy "day one starter" and "oops, that 'something' happened, now he needs that shoulder surgery" and totally lame shenanigans not withstanding, now he's on IR.  He has little trade value (likely zero). 

 

Just keep him.  See what happens.

[Manther]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

People will be pissed if Shaq is traded? I Don’t get the impression anyone is too excited about him. I don’t care either way but would prefer a decent return. 

 

Thr interestng part to me is he seems like a McD type of player. Football minded, works hard, on field effort. played through injuries in college, lots of heart, positive attitude. I’m just not sure he’s shown enough on the field to be “untouchable” on the trade block. I don’t think they will give him away, but I think if offered a good deal they wlll feel comfortable moving on.

 

I think  OBD is going to have a busy offseason and there will be some “surprising” moves as they continue to build the team they want. 

Agree with all points...

[Ol Dirty B]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Yeah, as much as I hate that. I wonder how much of that pick is on Rex? 

 

It's all on rex and the Pegulas. As is the Ragland pick.

[Bing Bong]

3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Absolutely. 

 Kinda carzy how we Bills Fans looks forward to the offseason most years , isn't it ?

 But this year i am looking forward to it. Lot of work to get done for sure both draft and FA etc

there's so little activity concerning the upcoming game right now.

[estro613]

Shaq looks like just the same as he did coming out of Clemson.  A slow off the line, run stuffing DE.  He will never live up to the hype of a 1st rd. pick because he will never be a good pass rusher in the NFL.  He is much too slow and is extremely slow off the snap.  I remember watching a Matt Waldman film breakdown of Shaq headed into his years draft and the one main takeaway was how ridiculously slow he was off the snap.  There were screenshots of many plays where every single Clemson D-lineman was well out of their stance and pushing into the backfield while Shaq wasn't even out of his 3 point stance yet.

 

[BillsFan4]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Shaq doesn't look at all like a 1st round pick at this point. Some points to consider.

1. He is still less than 25 games into his NFL career.

2. What could we get for him? Would it be worth it?

3. Is he worth the money we're paying him now (disregarding present injury) or should we just move him and free up cap space that might be better spent?

 

His cap hit is currently $2.3M.

 

Next year it's $2.8M, and the dead cap hit would be $6M. 

 

The year after his cap hit is $3.2M and the dead cap hit is the same. 

 

So, to me, it seems like it's worth keeping him at least another year. Let's see what Waufle can do with him. It's not like we have any talented defensive ends waiting in the wings... or much talent on the d line as it is, and we don't know if Kyle Islliams will be back next year. 

 

IMO we need to be adding to the d line, not subtracting from it. Not everyone comes into the NFL and immediately tears it up. 

 

The only way I trade Lawson before next season is if something good is coming back. 

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

A Denney would be fine. with a complimentary front.  Give Lawson some time please

why do we think he should be gone again ? i can't seem to grasp that bit..

 

 

People think he isn't living up to his draft position, which is true. But you don't necessarily have to do that to be a useful player. What you should live up to is your salary. And at $2.5 mill per year, he probably just about does that.

 

And when you do that, you generally stay around till they get somebody better or as good but cheaper.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Shaq doesn't look at all like a 1st round pick at this point. Some points to consider.

1. He is still less than 25 games into his NFL career.

2. What could we get for him? Would it be worth it?

3. Is he worth the money we're paying him now (disregarding present injury) or should we just move him and free up cap space that might be better spent?

 

While its a fair question, I think its a bit early.  Let him and this regime be together another year before we start making any real conclusions about him.  Colts I am pretty sure regret giving up on Hughes a year too soon when they traded him to us for a guy who did very little in Sheppard.

[nucci]

7 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Yes. Disperse all players in a league wide draft and act as if the Buffalo Bills are an expansion team.  

more draft picks....amIright?

[bmur66]

No. He is a player you can build around. Don't need to create more holes.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I found it interesting/surprising that Murph and Donald both insinuated today that they thought he would be traded in the offseason. They suggested he was not consistent enough producing in his role as a pass rusher.

 

Sal Capaccio also said the same thing.

He gives it a 75/25 that Lawson comes back.

[Scott7975]

Just because he was over drafted doesn't mean he can't play a role on the team. 

[BigBuff423]

I've said it before, I think Hughes is gone after this year. The contract and the negative yards through bad penalties....that means, if they cut Shaq or trade him for Draft pick(s), that would require two DEs on their revamped D-line...and considering that Kyle may very well retire and they need DT pretty badly already, I'd say it's too much turnover for one year. As someone else mentioned, he was on IR last year, this was essentially his Rookie year in a new Defensive scheme. I think they give Shaq another year for the reasons mentioned.

Edited December 7, 2017 by BigBuff423

[YoloinOhio]

I would be more surprised if they move on from Hughes than Shaq. He’s actually a good pass rusher. I know he has a big cap hit but they aren’t cap strapped. Pass rushers are very expensive in FA, don’t think it would be too easy to replace him. The penalties would be the only reason but no one is perfect, he doesn’t have any other issues that i know of that would make them want to get rid of him. Beefing up the interior of the line would immediately increase his production too imo and they need to do that anyway.

 

Then again im usually wrong. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[26CornerBlitz]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

more draft picks....amIright?

 

No doubt!

[BobDVA]

Absolutely NO

[westerndecline]

It's his first year. He's still developing. Christ  ppl here think every player and rookie should b Lawrence Taylor ...

 

No...

 

Once we get a real qb, all this other stuff just goes away. Yes a real qb effect s the pass rush. You know why genius???

 

Because you are constantly playing with a lead, sometimes a huge lead.

 

Put Rodgers on our team and Lawson and Hughes are in double digits each in sacks

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You’d get something similar to Ragland i would imagine. Shaq is a solid player. I know that’s uninspiring for a 1st round pick but he’s good against the run and will be like an 8 sack guy. He’s Ryan Denney IMO.

In general, the Whaley draft selections were less than inspiring. The constant change in coaches and systems certainly influenced the incoherency in the collection of players. But over a three to four year period it was lackluster. Whaley had a tendency to over-rate his roster and make moves to get over the hump. In the end being expedient instead of having a coherent strategy kept this team stuck in the middle. 

 

I'm not saying that Whaley was a bad GM. I am saying that he wasn't a good GM. While many, if not most, shudder at the wrestling coach's dismantling of the roster I am embracing it. 

[Captain Hindsight]

He's a decent player on a fairly cheap contract. I dont see much reason to create another hole unless someone blows you away with an offer

[jrober38]

13 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I dunno. I think we're pretty average overall. I also think White, Jones and Dawkins have bright futures. We also have a lot of picks and will save some of that huge contract money from Dareus. The real #1 question for Bills fans now is "How well can Beane draft?" If he nails those picks on day 1 and 2 of the draft ands gets a QB, whole new ballgame.

 

I expect a first round pick to be more than just average. 

 

And I haven't seen anything from Zay Jones. His catch rate is the worst from an NFL receiver in over 10 years. He's not explosive, doesn't generate much separation and offers nothing on special teams. I don't see a bright future for him at all. 

[Coach Tuesday]

For what?  They'd be lucky to get a 4th.  His tape is meh.

[John from Riverside]

I would have liked to see Shaq have a better 2nd season.....

 

Having said that....you cant keep giving up on high picks and selling low....we did that with some guys like Watkins but I think that was as much a money situation as anything.  Shaq is on a extremely affordable rookie contract and has a solid chance of improving his pass rush while already being very good against the run.

 

I think the final determination is.....is he a McD type player?   It appears that Darby and Reggie Ragland was not who falls into that same category of drafting hi selling low.

[DC Greg]

16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You’d get something similar to Ragland i would imagine. Shaq is a solid player. I know that’s uninspiring for a 1st round pick but he’s good against the run and will be like an 8 sack guy. He’s Ryan Denney IMO.

 

I'm not really seeing how he's an 8 sack guy. From everything I've seen of his pass rush, it looks pretty awful. He gets swallowed up by the tackle and has no good pass rush move to get off a block. On the run front, I've noticed him catching the block quite a few times and getting knocked back. Just not really seeing what everyone else seems to be seeing with this guy.

[Captain_Quint]

I think he has more value as a low end starter or rotational player than he would in a trade situation. His contract is relatively cheap for next year, and we need bodies that know the defense, not just a bunch of rookies and new guys again. 

 

He's a bridge until they get a better EDGE defender to go along with Hughes in the draft (along with some DTs).

 

Also, (as others said) who is going to want him based on his body of work so far? 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Captain_Quint

[frogger]

He’s leading our team in sacks.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, DC Greg said:

 

I'm not really seeing how he's an 8 sack guy. From everything I've seen of his pass rush, it looks pretty awful. He gets swallowed up by the tackle and has no good pass rush move to get off a block. On the run front, I've noticed him catching the block quite a few times and getting knocked back. Just not really seeing what everyone else seems to be seeing with this guy.

He has 4 now while acclimating to the speed of the game. It’s not unreasonable to think that he can get to 8 by next year. He’d have been at like 6 this year. 

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He has 4 now while acclimating to the speed of the game. It’s not unreasonable to think that he can get to 8 by next year. He’d have been at like 6 this year. 

Except sacks come in bunches and almost never extrapolate out like that.  Shaq went 5 games straight without a sack this season.

[cba fan]

Hughes is the best or second best defensive player on team. Getting rid of him would be another stupid trade by Beano.

[LABILLBACKER]

23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You’d get something similar to Ragland i would imagine. Shaq is a solid player. I know that’s uninspiring for a 1st round pick but he’s good against the run and will be like an 8 sack guy. He’s Ryan Denney IMO.

Shaq Lawson will never be an 8 sack a year guy. I've never seen a player that reminds me more of Chris Kelsay. Stuffs the run with little pass rush skills. One dimensional DE's are not exactly in high demand.  We're stuck with him.

Edited December 8, 2017 by LABILLBACKER

[Coach Tuesday]

5 hours ago, frogger said:

He’s leading our team in sacks.

 

Don’t.

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Shaq Lawson will never be an 8 sack a year guy. I've never seen a player that reminds me more of Chris Kelsay. Stuffs the run with little pass rush skills.

I’m surprised that people are so adamant about this. I didn’t say 15 sacks. The Bills have to get pass rush from their front 4 and he led the team this year. 8 isn’t really impressive. It’s the sign of an average DE. He was thought by many to be a top 10 pick and now we are saying he can’t get 8 sacks? Again, he’s just okay but he is a little better than we are giving him credit for.

[Captain_Quint]

5 hours ago, cba fan said:

Hughes is the best or second best defensive player on team. Getting rid of him would be another stupid trade by Beano.

I had a vision today of them cutting Hughes and keeping Shaq. 

 

If that happens, McD has gone full blown Jauron.