Richard Noggin Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Interesting (by design) piece in The Athletic by Tim Graham. WTF? So intensely out-of-touch from average Bills fans' perspectives, what even comes BEFORE the blank ad break. What comes after is downright embarrassing. The same way Buscaglia bizarrely wedges in post-hoc, un-provable Tremaine Edmunds evaluations, to then somehow reflect upon Terrel Bernard, who logged more impact plays in one half season than his predecessor did in 5 full seasons! Just bonkers, obviously disingenuous arguments being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Yeah, that was weird. Graham states that per Butler and per McDermott, Butler left on amicable terms. There is the implication that he wanted to receive the DC job, and that he left after he got passed over for Bobby Babich. Then Graham several times implies it couldn't have been amicable - earlier than the piece you quoted he alludes that "amicable parting" is a term used to cover-up a some internal brangling: Quote Butler’s exit was called a “mutual parting of the ways,” a euphemism often used by companies instead of “it would be too embarrassing if we explained what truly happened.” But, he offers no evidence to support his implication and in fact quotes Butler several times as saying no scandal, amicable, no crazy story. Then he uses examples like Brady leaving the Patriots and the Beatles breaking up (well known to have rancor behind them) to conclude if those could happen "an assistant coach can conclude it's time to move on". Either Graham is obtuse, or he's being too cute with trying to imply that there's something shady going on behind the scenes without offering any evidence. It seems logical to me that if Butler thought he should be tapped as DC, he wouldn't be happy sitting in a meeting room with Bobby Babich as his boss. Personally from what I can tell, Babich may be more qualified, but the ultimate judgement on that is of course McDermott's. I thought there were a couple of glaring omissions in Graham's Ode to Butler as our DB coach. One of them was the mysterious case of Kaiir Elam, a first round pick who had some good play at the end of last season and then seemingly fell down the depth chart to game-day inactive. He has talent, so if Butler is a great talent developer, why is Elam collecting splinters in his butt? Then there are some questions about key breaks in coverage at key moments. Not dissing Butler, he's obviously done some great work here, but I thought Graham's article had some weird aspects. 3 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 37 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Yeah, that was weird. Graham states that per Butler and per McDermott, Butler left on amicable terms. There is the implication that he wanted to receive the DC job, and that he left after he got passed over for Bobby Babich. Then Graham several times implies it couldn't have been amicable - earlier than the piece you quoted he alludes that "amicable parting" is a term used to cover-up a some internal brangling: But, he offers no evidence to support his implication and in fact quotes Butler several times as saying no scandal, amicable, no crazy story. Then he uses examples like Brady leaving the Patriots and the Beatles breaking up (well known to have rancor behind them) to conclude if those could happen "an assistant coach can conclude it's time to move on". Isn't that last, bolded block of historic breakup analogies (old Brady/New England and of course the still-young effing Beatles) ABSOLUTELY ABSURD AND HYPERBOLIC when applied to the "mutual parting of ways" of an obscure DB coach who hasn't generated squadoosh for genuine outside interest, and a successful-ish defense with multiple rising coaching talents? It's obscene. It's laughable. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 There are times when the pressure to write something is greater than the anything that becomes the topic. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) PS: We may have gone to school together if you saw the post title and had the following come to mind. Edited February 27 by Neo 12 13 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 hours ago, Beck Water said: Yeah, that was weird. Graham states that per Butler and per McDermott, Butler left on amicable terms. There is the implication that he wanted to receive the DC job, and that he left after he got passed over for Bobby Babich. Then Graham several times implies it couldn't have been amicable - earlier than the piece you quoted he alludes that "amicable parting" is a term used to cover-up a some internal brangling: But, he offers no evidence to support his implication and in fact quotes Butler several times as saying no scandal, amicable, no crazy story. Then he uses examples like Brady leaving the Patriots and the Beatles breaking up (well known to have rancor behind them) to conclude if those could happen "an assistant coach can conclude it's time to move on". Either Graham is obtuse, or he's being too cute with trying to imply that there's something shady going on behind the scenes without offering any evidence. It seems logical to me that if Butler thought he should be tapped as DC, he wouldn't be happy sitting in a meeting room with Bobby Babich as his boss. Personally from what I can tell, Babich may be more qualified, but the ultimate judgement on that is of course McDermott's. I thought there were a couple of glaring omissions in Graham's Ode to Butler as our DB coach. One of them was the mysterious case of Kaiir Elam, a first round pick who had some good play at the end of last season and then seemingly fell down the depth chart to game-day inactive. He has talent, so if Butler is a great talent developer, why is Elam collecting splinters in his butt? Then there are some questions about key breaks in coverage at key moments. Not dissing Butler, he's obviously done some great work here, but I thought Graham's article had some weird aspects. You address what I did in another post. Butler can post all the stats he wants about his secondary, but it's easy to do when at one time he had essentially 2 all pro safeties and an all pro CB. But he gets a 1st round pick in Elam, and the kid is crap so far. 3 minutes ago, Neo said: PS: We may have gone to school together if you saw the post title and had the following come to mind. Same here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I mean, the motive doesn't have to be complex here. The one they are explicitly saying out loud seems plausible. Eric Washington and John Butler are older than Babbich, and were heads of their position groups longer. Going a season with no DC and then being passed over is a common reason to move elsewhere in a lot of professions. God knows I've done it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 IIRC Butler called the plays in one of our preseason games last year. Was possibly an audition of sorts to see what he could bring. Maybe they didn't like what they saw there. So after having that opportunity and then getting passed over for the DC job, I can see how he would feel it's time to move on. I think it's in some was similar to watching Chad Hall leave before after not getting the OC job. That said, of the two I feel like they picked the correct guy in Babich. A bit younger with more room to learn and develop as a coordinator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno999 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I found it curious to see Babich get interviews as a DC candidate but don't recall Butler receiving any himself. Butler may have been perceived by other teams as the favorite to get the Bills DC job and therefore didn't draw any interest. Can't blame Butler for leaving. He was passed over and that's hard to come to terms especially if you feel you paid your dues and believe you can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 The Butler did it!!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 55 minutes ago, Neo said: PS: We may have gone to school together if you saw the post title and had the following come to mind. i was wondering what Graham was doing pulling him out for a story. besides, didn't he pass away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 57 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said: You address what I did in another post. Butler can post all the stats he wants about his secondary, but it's easy to do when at one time he had essentially 2 all pro safeties and an all pro CB. But he gets a 1st round pick in Elam, and the kid is crap so far. Same here. Only, Elam really hasn’t been “crap”, which is why it’s weird that he hasn’t earned a starting role and maybe it was ego or personal feelings between position coach and player, either way for Butler, it doesn’t look good having Elam on the bench. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snappysnackcakes Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Neo said: PS: We may have gone to school together if you saw the post title and had the following come to mind. Man, that’s exactly what my first thought was!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: Interesting (by design) piece in The Athletic by Tim Graham. WTF? So intensely out-of-touch from average Bills fans' perspectives, what even comes BEFORE the blank ad break. What comes after is downright embarrassing. The same way Buscaglia bizarrely wedges in post-hoc, un-provable Tremaine Edmunds evaluations, to then somehow reflect upon Terrel Bernard, who logged more impact plays in one half season than his predecessor did in 5 full seasons! Just bonkers, obviously disingenuous arguments being made. While my guitar gently weeps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Tim Graham has to alternate between cute innuendo and outright falsehoods. He’d be exposed too rapidly if he were a one trick pony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Neo said: PS: We may have gone to school together if you saw the post title and had the following come to mind. I'll always remember, back in the Empire Sports Network days, he was on the Paul Maquire show with Steve Christie. Paul mentions that Christie contract was up, and would have to be renewed. Christie laughs and throws his arm around John, but Butler has this shocked look on his face, like he did not know. That very next season Butler was gone to San Diego. My other JB story, Hall Of Fame induction for Jim Kelly, leaving the area on our bus we are following a car, and come across a police sawhorse blocking the road. The driver of the car in front of us gets out and moves it. As he turns to get back in his car, we realize it's John Butler. 50 minutes ago, boyst said: i was wondering what Graham was doing pulling him out for a story. besides, didn't he pass away? April, 2003. Edited February 27 by Just Jack 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Neo said: PS: We may have gone to school together if you saw the post title and had the following come to mind. Goo goo g'joob, classic era. For modern day version, please see 'Reid, Andy'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) The sudden thirst for truth about DC is odd considering we swam in a sea of ambiguity for a few seasons now. When you juxtapose that with non-answers for 13 seconds, the Cincinnati acute emotional exhaustion, Frazier's coaching status, and the Dorsey getting fired for the special teams letdowns, it just proves that we not only don't need definitive answers, we don't even want them. Edited February 27 by benderbender 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 the gap in our d's numbers in the reg season vs playoffs is just shocking. my pet theory is like a boxer who has great d by preventing his opponent from punching by keeping him off balance, controlled, or just moving out the way vs slower guys. when we face people who have answers tho, we breakdown our fundamentals and either shell up and become a punching bag, or make the wrong moves and try to do too much. im not sure of the exact answer, but i think it involves being more aggressive at times but we have to do so in an effective way. the sell out telegraphed blitzes aren't it. hopefully they made the right choice for some new blood leading the show. given how our LBs tend to play, and the embarrassment of spectacular stat sheet filling play by TB in his second year, i think bobby babby might be the man for the job. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, The Jokeman said: While my guitar gently weeps.... I guess nothing sells without drama, real or imagined…, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 35 minutes ago, benderbender said: The sudden thirst for truth about DC is odd considering we swam in a sea of ambiguity for a few seasons now. When you juxtapose that with non-answers for 13 seconds, the Cincinnati acute emotional exhaustion, Frazier's coaching status, and the Dorsey getting fired for the special teams letdowns, it just proves that we not only don't need definitive answers, we don't even want them. Dorsey was let go because we blitzed on 3rd & forever setting up the FG. We stay back and let the DBs so their job, Dorsey still has a job with Buffalo Edited February 27 by uticaclub 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray51 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Dorsey was let go because we blitzed on 3rd & forever setting up the FG. We stay back and let the DBs so their job, Dorsey still has a job with Buffalo Dorsey was let go because our offense consistently showed little ability to adjust and create rhythms to operate through during a game. And, the team as a whole needed a shakeup and Dorsey's exit could provide that without damaging the team's production. And Brady came in and improved the offense which was a plus. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Beck Water said: Yeah, that was weird. Graham states that per Butler and per McDermott, Butler left on amicable terms. There is the implication that he wanted to receive the DC job, and that he left after he got passed over for Bobby Babich. Then Graham several times implies it couldn't have been amicable - earlier than the piece you quoted he alludes that "amicable parting" is a term used to cover-up a some internal brangling: But, he offers no evidence to support his implication and in fact quotes Butler several times as saying no scandal, amicable, no crazy story. Then he uses examples like Brady leaving the Patriots and the Beatles breaking up (well known to have rancor behind them) to conclude if those could happen "an assistant coach can conclude it's time to move on". Either Graham is obtuse, or he's being too cute with trying to imply that there's something shady going on behind the scenes without offering any evidence. It seems logical to me that if Butler thought he should be tapped as DC, he wouldn't be happy sitting in a meeting room with Bobby Babich as his boss. Personally from what I can tell, Babich may be more qualified, but the ultimate judgement on that is of course McDermott's. I thought there were a couple of glaring omissions in Graham's Ode to Butler as our DB coach. One of them was the mysterious case of Kaiir Elam, a first round pick who had some good play at the end of last season and then seemingly fell down the depth chart to game-day inactive. He has talent, so if Butler is a great talent developer, why is Elam collecting splinters in his butt? Then there are some questions about key breaks in coverage at key moments. Not dissing Butler, he's obviously done some great work here, but I thought Graham's article had some weird aspects. So it sounds more like Butler talks about leaving when he felt it was time to move on in his career and Tim Graham imagines what it'd be like if he did dish like Graham wanted, one day he'll get the story he wants if he wishes on a star hard enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 20 minutes ago, Cray51 said: Dorsey was let go because our offense consistently showed little ability to adjust and create rhythms to operate through during a game. And, the team as a whole needed a shakeup and Dorsey's exit could provide that without damaging the team's production. And Brady came in and improved the offense which was a plus. That is all true but Dorsey doesnt get fired after Denver if it wasn't for defensive blunders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Graham needs to stick to special features. It’s the only thing he does well as a journalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: Goo goo g'joob, classic era. For modern day version, please see 'Reid, Andy'. Magical Mystery Tour was my first record album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: Isn't that last, bolded block of historic breakup analogies (old Brady/New England and of course the still-young effing Beatles) ABSOLUTELY ABSURD AND HYPERBOLIC when applied to the "mutual parting of ways" of an obscure DB coach who hasn't generated squadoosh for genuine outside interest, and a successful-ish defense with multiple rising coaching talents? It's obscene. It's laughable. Butler is speaking highly of himself in the 3rd person. 99% of Bills fans did not wonder at any time recently why John Butler left. 98% thought he left 24 years ago and the other 1% understood the dynamic. There is a touch of humor in that follow up paragraph as well as perhaps a stroke of Butler's ego. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Tbh I've read it twice now and I didn't get that at all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Butler another arrogant big headed coach who hasn’t done anything to compare himself to Tom Brady, Montana and Gretzky. Out of touch, glad he is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 hours ago, boyst said: didn't he pass away? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 23 minutes ago, wppete said: Butler another arrogant big headed coach who hasn’t done anything to compare himself to Tom Brady, Montana and Gretzky. Out of touch, glad he is gone. Butler didn't make those comparisons. Tim Graham did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORWOODS FOOT Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I’m gonna hold a seance and interview the *real* John Butler… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Butler is speaking highly of himself in the 3rd person. 99% of Bills fans did not wonder at any time recently why John Butler left. 98% thought he left 24 years ago and the other 1% understood the dynamic. There is a touch of humor in that follow up paragraph as well as perhaps a stroke of Butler's ego. "John would never do that!" "Neither would George!!" 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 How do you dish on someone? This must be a millennial thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerstAusGosheim Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Butler was fired. He's pissed. After Bobby's dad got him the job, he lucked into coaching healthy Poyer, Hyde and Milano in their prime. It's like winning the coaching lottery. Now Bobby's the rising star. And Butler is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 12 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: Isn't that last, bolded block of historic breakup analogies (old Brady/New England and of course the still-young effing Beatles) ABSOLUTELY ABSURD AND HYPERBOLIC when applied to the "mutual parting of ways" of an obscure DB coach who hasn't generated squadoosh for genuine outside interest, and a successful-ish defense with multiple rising coaching talents? It's obscene. It's laughable. Thats the point. If teams move on from all time greats with no other motivation than its time for the player or team to move on, no hatred, scandal, or blow ups, then is it so crazy to think that an assistance coach might similarly move on. There isn't always more to the story. He isn't suggesting Butler is an all time great assistant to the regional defensive quality control specialist or that this move is franchise altering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Summary Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Are there people who would have chosen Butler over Babich for DC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Thats the point. If teams move on from all time greats with no other motivation than its time for the player or team to move on, no hatred, scandal, or blow ups, then is it so crazy to think that an assistance coach might similarly move on. There isn't always more to the story. He isn't suggesting Butler is an all time great assistant to the regional defensive quality control specialist or that this move is franchise altering. Yeah it's a little clumsily phrased but you have to try pretty hard to make it seem like this is anti Bills 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 hours ago, Cray51 said: Dorsey was let go because our offense consistently showed little ability to adjust and create rhythms to operate through during a game. And, the team as a whole needed a shakeup and Dorsey's exit could provide that without damaging the team's production. And Brady came in and improved the offense which was a plus. Doresy was let go because the Bills running game couldn't be stopped and he refused to take advantage of that. They averaged 7.4 yards per carry, while the passing game was only averaging 6.8 yards per attempt. What Offensive coordinator only runs the ball 26 times while averaging 7.4 yards a carry? A coordinator who deserves to get fired. The Bronco's couldn't stop the run game, only incompletions and interceptions, caused the drives to end. He should've run the ball until Cook and Murry were puking or finally stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Sounds like Timmah being Timmah. He's probably tight with Ty Dunne too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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