I guess Tyler Dunne was spot on...McD is too controlling and paranoid to work with...

[JustHewIt]

Just now, Gunsgoodtime said:

Since McDermott arrived different coaches has made the SB, how is he more successful than 98% of coaches in the NFL, much less sports?  To this point, with Josh Allen as QB he has underachieved.

Well, I figure 5-7 coaches get fired every year, plus 31 other currently employed coaches.  McDermott has more wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and divisions titles than any of them except Andy Reid since 2017.  And if not for Reid, he'd probably have a Super Bowl appearance or two.  So, to me that's successful, there's more to success than winning the Super Bowl.  But, agree to disagree I guess.

[Dablitzkrieg]

2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

If you actually read his articles you'd know he had way more sources that. At least 20-25 including current Bills players on the roster.

I still don't understand why you would want to read crap.  But anyways, name the 20-25 players.  If you say "unnamed" I'm going to laugh harder than I already am.

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, NORWOODS FOOT said:

Winning in the NFL - assuming the leaders even know what they are doing - is a game of inches on and off the field.

 

Terry Pegula pointing to Mahomes but not insisting on the pick… 

 

Playing soft D and making 13 seconds enough…

 

A failed fake punt, a dropped pass, a missed kick…

 

Right now Reid and Spagnola do everything in the center right AND win on the margins. 
 

It’s like playing my wife in cards: I always play her close, but somehow she plays her hands better when it counts and comes out on top.

 

Beane and McDermott are damn good, just not the best. And unfortunately we are seeing a Brady/Belichick level duo each year in the playoffs. 
 

I’m grateful for the run we are on, but they have better juice. Against Reid/Mahomes - in the context of going against the greats - McDermott is lacking and that’s a problem.

 

But realistically, what are we to do? I’m tempted to give Belichick a go, but that could be a disaster as well…

 

This is what people don't get and I alluded to in another thread. When you have the right head coach and star player combination (in this case QB in the NFL) there's basically no margin for error when competing with said teams on the biggest of stages.

 

And quite frankly what the Chiefs have done during this latest championship run is wait for the other guy to make a mistake and piss all over themselves which is exactly what happened to many formidable teams that played Brady and the Patriots all those years.

 

The bills likely have the right QB but they don't have the right head coach...but if winning division titles and bowing out in the playoffs early is your thing than by all means continue to celebrate it and that's exactly what Dunne pointed out in his latest piece as well.

1 minute ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I still don't understand why you would want to read crap.  But anyways, name the 20-25 players.  If you say "unnamed" I'm going to laugh harder than I already am.

 

Why would he name them? That's how journalism works and he's not going to blatantly give up his sources, especially any current players, coaches, etc that are still employed by the bills organization.

 

I guess myself I understand the nuances of what Dunne's doing so I can appreciate a lot more and it hits differently than a lot of these other national media hacks who quiet frankly know very little about the Bills other than what they see on TV and read from local media.

[Pokebball]

54 minutes ago, Logic said:

As someone who found a lot of what was in the Dunne piece to be illuminating and probably truthful...

Two things that have happened since have been kind of damning to that report:

The first was the Wink Martindale/Brian Daboll fallout. Whereas it looked like the rather public breakup of McDermott and Daboll was more on McDermott, seeing Daboll be unable to make it work with a second consecutive defensive mind makes one wonder. 

The second was the fact that, as the OP mentioned, two coveted young coordinators chose to stick around in Buffalo rather than go elsewhere, even though both garnered significant interest. Babich, in particular, was surprising, choosing to stick around under a defensive-minded head coach who may still continue to call plays rather than potentially spread his wings under an offensive minded guy.

Lastly, the way the team rallied around McDermott after the piece came out also sort of poked a bit of a hole in the "no one likes playing for this control freak" narrative. 

The more that time has gone on and the more that's happened, the less accurate Dunne's piece has looked. 

With all of that said, the Bills still lost in heartbreaking fashion in the Divisional round to the Kansas City Chiefs, and the major thesis of Dunne's piece was that McDermott tenses up in big moments and that the Bills need to move on from him to ever reach the Super Bowl, so.....he hasn't entirely been proven wrong thus far.

Good post. Regarding your last paragraph, I don't know how any can't look at the Mash unit that was out there playing defense to end our season, and conclude anything other than is why we lost. 

[NORWOODS FOOT]

5 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is what people don't get and I alluded to in another thread. When you have the right head coach and star player combination (in this case QB in the NFL) there's basically no margin for error when competing with said teams on the biggest of stages.

 

And quite frankly what the Chiefs have done during this latest championship run is wait for the other guy to make a mistake and piss all over themselves which is exactly what happened to many formidable teams that played Brady and the Patriots all those years.

 

The bills likely have the right QB but they don't have the right head coach...but if winning division titles and bowing out in the playoffs early is your thing than by all means continue to celebrate it and that's exactly what Dunne pointed out in his latest piece as well.

Right. I don’t hate McDermott. On the one hand, he’s a very fine coach and we are lucky to have him. But he just isn’t good enough. That’s no a criticism of him, per se, it’s just putting him in the context of his most talented peers.

 

As a Bills fan I’m desperate for a SB win. And because of that, though I respect McD, I don’t care about his feelings and I’m ready to see something different while Josh is still in his prime.

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, JustHewIt said:

Well, I figure 5-7 coaches get fired every year, plus 31 other currently employed coaches.  McDermott has more wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, and divisions titles than any of them except Andy Reid since 2017.  And if not for Reid, he'd probably have a Super Bowl appearance or two.  So, to me that's successful, there's more to success than winning the Super Bowl.  But, agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

Or, particularly in the case of Brady, he realized a year with Josh Allen ends in a head coaching job in a year if successful… while Atlanta maybe not so much 

 

Or...maybe ends in a not so successful head coaching job without Josh Allen....

 

 

Daboll has closed that pipeline.

[Rico]

30 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

🎵I'm not Daboll🎶

🎶My name is Brady🎵

🎵Daboll left you🎶

🎶Coupla years ago🎵

*
Wasn't worth starting a new thread. 🤔

No such thing as too many Tyler Dunne-bashing threads.

[Simon]

51 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

Which part? I'm happy to discuss it. 

 

The part I quoted.

Nobody thinks getting knocked out of the playoffs in the second round is a "huge accomplishment" and nobody wants more of it.

It's just some bull#### strawman you create to try to make yourself feel superior to others.

[Rico]

31 minutes ago, eball said:

I still have no idea why you are here. 
 

[Special K]

1 hour ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Unfortunately I think the standards with the owner and half the fanbase are so low, that I’m not even sure another massive postseason disappointment gets McD Cannes. 

 

So he has to win to go here??🙂

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

I hope Sean enjoys France. 

 
Well played!

[noacls]

2 hours ago, eball said:

...as evidenced by Brady and Babich sticking around and accepting promotions to OC and DC despite significant interest around the league.

 

/sarcasm off

Sean is that you?🤣

[HomeskillitMoorman]

37 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The part I quoted.

Nobody thinks getting knocked out of the playoffs in the second round is a "huge accomplishment" and nobody wants more of it.

It's just some bull#### strawman you create to try to make yourself feel superior to others.

 

It isn't. 

 

That's happened 3 years in a row and people want the man in charge of it back. McD's side of the ball has let us down in every single big game. The part of football that he was supposed to bring his proficiency in. He's also been a horrible in-game manager and has never put in the work to improve himself as one. He has gotten some world class performances from his QB in the playoffs, with really just 1 legitimate stinker in which his defense was also bad, and can never hold up his end of the bargain. He contributed heavily to the biggest meltdown in Bills history with 13 seconds. 

 

Yes, the standards are incredibly low to want this guy back. It's either people feel that these seasons have been huge accomplishments or they like him personally more than the team's possible success. If you consider it a disappointment when his side of the ball and Head Coaching duties have largely been responsible for those disappointments...why would you want him back? Especially when he hasn't exhibited any improvement as a coach or even an intention to improve as one? And if you don't consider it to be a disappointment...then isn't that the standard you see as being fit? And do you believe the team has gotten better with these constant early exits since the apex in 20-21? I think these are all fair questions that lead to that sentiment. 

 

33 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

So he has to win to go here??🙂

 

 

Yes! Keep up this string of disappointments and he should be forced to sit through another year of Marvel movies. 

Edited January 31 by HomeskillitMoorman

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

It isn't. 

 

That's happened 3 years in a row and people want the man in charge of it back. McD's side of the ball has let us down in every single big game. The part of football that he was supposed to bring his proficiency in. He's also been a horrible in-game manager and has never put in the work to improve himself as one. He has gotten some world class performances from his QB in the playoffs, with really just 1 legitimate stinker in which his defense was also bad, and can never hold up his end of the bargain. He contributed heavily to the biggest meltdown in Bills history with 13 seconds. 

 

Yes, the standards are incredibly low to want this guy back. It's either people feel that these seasons have been huge accomplishments or they like him personally more than the team's possible success. If you consider it a disappointment when his side of the ball and Head Coaching duties have largely been responsible for those disappointments...why would you want him back? And if you don't consider it to be a disappointment...then isn't that the standard you see as being fit? I think that's a fair question. 

Or people just correctly realize that it could easily be a lot worse.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

Or people just correctly realize that it could easily be a lot worse.

 

I think that is a standards thing though, the logic of "I'd rather have a Divisional Round appearance type of team than to take a risk to reach the next level, because we could be worse". And that's fine, but the standards part still rings true. But if you're happy with that, I think you do have the right coach leading this team for you. 

[MJS]

Babich was a hot candidate, and there can be an argument that it would be better for him to leave and coordinate for a team without a defensive head coach, but he chose to stay.

[NoSaint]

45 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Or...maybe ends in a not so successful head coaching job without Josh Allen....

 

 

Daboll has closed that pipeline.

daboll closed the every offensive coordinator with an ounce of success gets big opportunities pipeline? 
 

there’s literally not a single oc in place from 2022. Either you grow or you get canned real fast currently 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said:

With amazing sources like 'Lil Dirty, Doug Whaley and Quinton Spain, how could he have gone wrong? I mean its not like they were all butt hurt or anything, right?

Don’t forget Jim Monos, the former director of player personnel that McD canned and he had to start driving Ubers.

 

Thats a true story.

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

Babich was a hot candidate, and there can be an argument that it would be better for him to leave and coordinate for a team without a defensive head coach, but he chose to stay.

I’d agree with that…

 

though you never know anyone’s individual drivers. Maybe he’s not comfortable with the jump, or he’s really comfortable in this nest. he’s never had the role so getting the title but staying in a sheltered environment could be an appealing half step forward instead of full.

[JoPoy88]

7 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I think that is a standards thing though, the logic of "I'd rather have a Divisional Round appearance type of team than to take a risk to reach the next level, because we could be worse". And that's fine, but the standards part still rings true. But if you're happy with that, I think you do have the right coach leading this team for you. 

It’s a standard level learned through past experience though, not just plucked out of the sky. That’s not to say there isn’t a possible coach out there that could have succeeded where McDermott didn’t the last 3-4 years, but I don’t know  who that may be for certain and neither do you.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Unfortunately I think the standards with the owner and half the fanbase are so low, that I’m not even sure another massive postseason disappointment gets McD Cannes. 
 

Terry and a lot of fans feel that simply a Divisional Round exit with an elite QB is a huge accomplishment. It’s happened 3 years in a row and they want more of it. 
 

I think if it was somewhere else, this could be a good analysis of the situation by Brady. Here, I’m not so sure. I guess if the offense is solid he probably feels he could still get hired away. 

Yup, nothing screams fulfillment like a divisional loss every year.  The pinnacle....

[HomeskillitMoorman]

11 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

It’s a standard level learned through past experience though, not just plucked out of the sky. That’s not to say there isn’t a possible coach out there that could have succeeded where McDermott didn’t the last 3-4 years, but I don’t know  who that may be for certain and neither do you.

 

Absolutely I don't, I agree with that. 

 

The difference is I think it's worth risking being an early exit playoff team for the chance to possibly take the next step, even if that risk entails the possibility of losing being a 1 win in January team. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Maybe we should ask Frazier and Dorsey what it was like to work for McD

[Slack_in_MA]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is what people don't get and I alluded to in another thread. When you have the right head coach and star player combination (in this case QB in the NFL) there's basically no margin for error when competing with said teams on the biggest of stages.

 

And quite frankly what the Chiefs have done during this latest championship run is wait for the other guy to make a mistake and piss all over themselves which is exactly what happened to many formidable teams that played Brady and the Patriots all those years.

 

The bills likely have the right QB but they don't have the right head coach...but if winning division titles and bowing out in the playoffs early is your thing than by all means continue to celebrate it and that's exactly what Dunne pointed out in his latest piece as well.

 

Why would he name them? That's how journalism works and he's not going to blatantly give up his sources, especially any current players, coaches, etc that are still employed by the bills organization.

 

I guess myself I understand the nuances of what Dunne's doing so I can appreciate a lot more and it hits differently than a lot of these other national media hacks who quiet frankly know very little about the Bills other than what they see on TV and read from local media.

It’s confirmation bias for you. It’s OK. Own it.

[Warcodered]

It is interesting how Dunne just seemed to vanish when the team had got going on their run, but as soon as things end in tragic fashion whoosh here he is "Allow me to piss on the ashes." I have no idea why some on here give a ***** what he says.

 

Also interesting to me is these last two divisional losses to the Chiefs, man did it suck, but at the same time in both of them looking at those seasons it really felt if something went if bit different they really had a shot to do it that/this year. 13 seconds game is obvious defense don't choke away the FG and OT TD, this year we don't have all those injuries against the Steelers.

 

Despite feeling like we've had a shot multiple times there's this impulse to just flip the table get someone different it'll be new and different and it'll fix things, and that's just mystifying to me. McDermott has seemingly led the team and put them in a position to have a shot year after year, and yeah he's got to get past the Chiefs. Well news flash that's the story for everyone in the AFC and how about someone tell me who the ***** is actually doing it, because as far as I can see nobody is really doing it, and our team plays them harder than anyone.

[Arkady Renko]

If and when the Bills win the Super Bowl, we won’t be happy for as long as you think.  We’ll just adjust to the new status quo and complain we’re not winning enough.   

[stuvian]

Every good coach is a paranoid dictator and control freak. Nice guys finish last but stay married. Winning coaches always have kids that hate them and are multiple times divorced.

[Coach Tuesday]

I have yet to see one of these sarcasm threads stick the landing.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, stuvian said:

Every good coach is a paranoid dictator and control freak. Nice guys finish last but stay married. Winning coaches always have kids that hate them and are multiple times divorced.

Unless you hire your kids as assistant coaches 😆

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, NoSaint said:

my point was he gets hired elsewhere in 12 months as a HC if he doesn’t pull a Dorsey and mess up an easy opportunity here

If he messes up Ben Johnson might be the new play caller here.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Unless you hire your kids as assistant coaches 😆

I thought everybody does that.  Little Belichick, Little DWI Reid, etc.

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

daboll closed the every offensive coordinator with an ounce of success gets big opportunities pipeline? 
 

there’s literally not a single oc in place from 2022. Either you grow or you get canned real fast currently 

 

he closed the Josh Allen producing HC's pipeline.  Teams know it's all Josh---and he's not coming with the new HC.

[Matt_In_NH]

13 hours ago, McBean said:

I’m just so happy we can look forward to Sean on the sidelines clapping next year to just get bounced in round 1 or 2. That’s if we even make it. Now we have big game Burrow coming back along with Harbaugh and Rodgers.

 

so COOL!

Thanks Nancy!

[Logic]

15 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Good post. Regarding your last paragraph, I don't know how any can't look at the Mash unit that was out there playing defense to end our season, and conclude anything other than is why we lost. 

While I agree with the notion that the defensive injuries were likely the most prominent and identifiable reason for the loss to the Chiefs, it doesn't change the fact that it was a loss.

Even with those injuries, the Bills had the ball at the end with a chance to score a go-ahead touchdown with very little time left on the clock. They didn't get the job done. Now, obviously you can say "well, it was Josh that opted to throw to Shakir in the end zone rather than bleed more clock, and it was Dawkins that allowed Chris Jones to affect Allen's pass, and surely McDermott isn't to blame for the plays that the PLAYERS themselves didn't make to win", and you'd be kind of right. But one could then point out that it should have been a critical coaching point by McDermott to instill in Josh that he needed to bleed more clock, that going for a touchdown right out of the two minute warning was maybe NOT the best strategic choice, and that in that instance, the matter of WHEN they scored was maybe the most important element of that moment in the game. 

It's like the 13 seconds game. One could point to the execution by the defensive players or the kicker at the end and say "that's on the players", but one could just as easily say "it's the job of the head coach to know the key factors of importance in that moment and to impart those factors to the players in a way that they understand".

What I'm trying to say is this: You can pretty much always blame players on the field, because they're the ones who are or aren't making the plays. But in the big moments of big games, a great head coach will make sure that he has explained the most necessary and pertinent strategic components clearly to the players. McDermott doesn't seem to have done that in the 13 seconds game, and it seems possible that he didn't explain them in the most recent Chiefs loss, either. All of this takes us back to Dunne's primary thesis: That Sean McDermott -- while a good head coach overall -- will always get too tense in big moments, freeze up, and demonstrate an inability to seize those moments, win those games, and get his team over the hump.

Put more simply: McDermott has yet to disprove the primary thesis of Dunne's piece.

Edited January 31 by Logic

[PromoTheRobot]

16 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Unfortunately I think the standards with the owner and half the fanbase are so low, that I’m not even sure another massive postseason disappointment gets McD Cannes. 
 

Terry and a lot of fans feel that simply a Divisional Round exit with an elite QB is a huge accomplishment. It’s happened 3 years in a row and they want more of it. 
 

I think if it was somewhere else, this could be a good analysis of the situation by Brady. Here, I’m not so sure. I guess if the offense is solid he probably feels he could still get hired away. 

 

My bar is so low I'm satisfied with playoff wins after a 17 year drought. Shame on me. 

[PromoTheRobot]

16 hours ago, Logic said:

As someone who found a lot of what was in the Dunne piece to be illuminating and probably truthful...

Two things that have happened since have been kind of damning to that report:

The first was the Wink Martindale/Brian Daboll fallout. Whereas it looked like the rather public breakup of McDermott and Daboll was more on McDermott, seeing Daboll be unable to make it work with a second consecutive defensive mind makes one wonder. 

The second was the fact that, as the OP mentioned, two coveted young coordinators chose to stick around in Buffalo rather than go elsewhere, even though both garnered significant interest. Babich, in particular, was surprising, choosing to stick around under a defensive-minded head coach who may still continue to call plays rather than potentially spread his wings under an offensive minded guy.

Lastly, the way the team rallied around McDermott after the piece came out also sort of poked a bit of a hole in the "no one likes playing for this control freak" narrative. 

The more that time has gone on and the more that's happened, the less accurate Dunne's piece has looked. 

With all of that said, the Bills still lost in heartbreaking fashion in the Divisional round to the Kansas City Chiefs, and the major thesis of Dunne's piece was that McDermott tenses up in big moments and that the Bills need to move on from him to ever reach the Super Bowl, so.....he hasn't entirely been proven wrong thus far.

 

Did McDermott tighten up or did injuries finally catch up to us? I think it's the latter. AJ Klein covering Travis Kelce isn't ideal but what else was left? And we were still in position to close that game out....on offense.

 

As for the Dunne article, you know the saying "my side, your side and the truth?" I'm sure there was some truth to it but perspective plays a role. People who don't have all the facts interpret events their way. I'm sure I could find 10 people who thought Mother Theresa was a B word. 😁

[Logic]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Did McDermott tighten up or did injuries finally catch up to us? I think it's the latter. AJ Klein covering Travis Kelce isn't ideal but what else was left? And we were still in position to close that game out....on offense.

 

Like I said, I definitely agree that the defensive injuries played a huge part and were possibly/probably the biggest factor in the loss.

With that said, nothing the Bills defense has done over the past several seasons of playoff games makes me confident that the defense would've been gangbusters even if Bernard (and, heck, Matt Milano) were in the lineup.

Yes, things would PROBABLY have been better, but based on previous matchups against the Chiefs in the playoffs (or the Bengals, or whomever), why should I be particularly confident that things DEFINITELY would have been better, ya know?

My main gripe with McDermott at this point is that his defense is perennially top 5 in the regular season, but drops to below average in the playoffs against the elite opponents. If you're gonna roll with a defensive head coach, that's fine, but his defenses better damn well show up in the biggest games, and they all too often don't under McDermott. Even in past seasons when our defense WAS relatively healthy, they have gotten shredded by the Mahomes and Burrows of the world come playoff time. That has to stop.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

My bar is so low I'm satisfied with playoff wins after a 17 year drought. Shame on me. 

No shame required. I think it’s a positive that you can admit it. 

[Bruffalo]

I don't think Dunne is lying about what he's reported, but it's clear that it's a personal vendetta.