Kurt Warner - Very good breakdown of Josh Allen’s play agains the Fins

[BuffaloBill]

The Bills faced a combination of Josh being a bit too fast on reads in some cases, in others he was not presented with good options.

 

Thought this was an excellent explanation and balanced by Warner.  The Bills were beating themselves. Then they adjusted.

 

 

 

[SWATeam]

I always been pretty aligned with Warner in that Josh needs to take more layups.

[Taro Nimbus]

Who’s Jason Allen?

[BuffaloBill]

Just now, Taro Nimbus said:

Who’s Jason Allen?

 

 

Damn spell checker and I was an idiot for not noticing  

 

[SoMAn]

He's kind of right, but not entirely.  One of the issues with the up and down win-loss roller coaster during Dorsey's final games was putting handcuffs  and leg shackles on Josh. Josh has got to be Josh. He's not Kurt Warner. Yes, he has to be conventional and trust his receivers, but he's not a classic pocket passer and I doubt he ever will be.

[Drew21PA]

I think the BEST SIGN buffalo could make a run over anything else is that our coaching has improved !!!

 

making adjustments on offense and defense - I’ll hand it to them I didn’t think they had it in themselves 

[ToGoGo]

Didn't watch this one, but watched Kurt Warner videos on Josh Allen in the past and it always felt like Warner would judge Allen harshly for not being more of a strict pocket passer like Warner.

 

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

16 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

He's kind of right, but not entirely.  One of the issues with the up and down win-loss roller coaster during Dorsey's final games was putting handcuffs  and leg shackles on Josh. Josh has got to be Josh. He's not Kurt Warner. Yes, he has to be conventional and trust his receivers, but he's not a classic pocket passer and I doubt he ever will be.

The weird thing is he played exactly one game, Week 1 vs the Rams last season, as a timing route pocket passer and then it just never happened again.

[SoonerBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Bills faced a combination of Josh being a bit too fast on reads in some cases, in others he was not presented with good options.

 

Thought this was an excellent explanation and balanced by Warner.  The Bills were beating themselves. Then they adjusted.

 

 

 

This verifies what I am saying, bring. In the WCO or hybrid version of it.  Look at what has done for Purdy.  Then you got the years of Elway running it and winning 2 superbowls.  

 

Montana, Young, Rogers and Favre ( who we compare Allen to) in Green Bay let alone Mahomes in KC.  It still works.

3 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Didn't watch this one, but watched Kurt Warner videos on Josh Allen in the past and it always felt like Warner would judge Allen harshly for not being more of a strict pocket passer like Warner.

 

Warner is 100% spot on in this one, and Allen needs to be more of a pocket passer than he is.  Warner show clear missed decisions  by Allen he has to make. And he points out a flaw of too slow hot routes in our system

[SoMAn]

6 minutes ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

The weird thing is he played exactly one game, Week 1 vs the Rams last season, as a timing route pocket passer and then it just never happened again.

Yes. There were a couple of other games in which it looked more like quick throw, dink & dunk stuff. And it worked. But then it was abandoned. 
My belief is that Josh is always in 4th gear. A hurry-up, 2 minute style suits him. I’d like to see them use it more often. Obviously, it couldn’t be used throughout as it would wear down the rest of the offense, but it could be used more often to get opposing defenses on their heals 

[davefan66]

It’s easy to break down tape where microseconds can be frozen to prove a point. Yes, Josh may need to keep on a read a little longer, especially when he is “sugar high” Josh. A few of those examples looked too fast even though they were slowed down/frozen.

 

I do agree Josh needs more quick options. When the pass rush is killing you either have a quick slant or run a screen.  Seems it took too long for them to adjust to the pass rush last game.

[corta765]

50 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

I always been pretty aligned with Warner in that Josh needs to take more layups.

Agreed. Brady I think is trying his best to not fully overhaul the offense as you really can't at this point while adding easier throws, motion, play action... basically all the sh*t Dorsey didn't do that limited the offense.

I expect whoever is the OC next year blends more of this regularly in and makes Kincaid/Shakir a larger focus the way Beasley was to have an easy option. Daboll really got the offense excelling once he got Josh on that page and presented it.

 

I think Warner has actually had some of the best analysis of Josh.

[Lost]

Can we hire Kurt Warner as QB coach?

[Ralonzo]

50 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

I always been pretty aligned with Warner in that Josh needs to take more layups.

 

Did we watch the video? The main point of it was, in the Bills disaster plays (sacks, ints, fumbles) it was the play design that left Josh no answers to the blitz-0 calls by the defense. The secondary point was, he's getting through his reads too fast when he's feeling that pressure and looking for a place to go with the ball before it arrives.

 

To me Warner called out Brady without ever mentioning his name.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

 

Did we watch the video? The main point of it was, in the Bills disaster plays (sacks, ints, fumbles) it was the play design that left Josh no answers to the blitz-0 calls by the defense. The secondary point was, he's getting through his reads too fast when he's feeling that pressure and looking for a place to go with the ball before it arrives.

 

To me Warner called out Brady without ever mentioning his name.

Exactly. Receivers running too deep on all-out blitz plays is a real problem. What I’d like to see is if the Bills cleaned that up in the second half.

[SWATeam]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

 

Did we watch the video? The main point of it was, in the Bills disaster plays (sacks, ints, fumbles) it was the play design that left Josh no answers to the blitz-0 calls by the defense. The secondary point was, he's getting through his reads too fast when he's feeling that pressure and looking for a place to go with the ball before it arrives.

 

To me Warner called out Brady without ever mentioning his name.

I didn't watch this particular video, no.  I'm just commenting on what I've heard from Warner about Josh on multiple occasions, including on One Bills Live this week.

[JohnnyBuffalo]

What I heard was - Josh bails on certain plays too early for what reason?   Sounds like 2 reasons.  1.  The plays take too long to develop and there is no FAST or QUICK Hot option when over load pressure comes and Oline can’t hold up.   2. Josh’s mind goes too fast through reads anticipating reason one and misses easier (notice EASIER not EASY) options.  
 

Sounds very reasonable that you can always build in a hot option OR they get better scheme upfront?    I don’t know because they don’t pay me millions of dollars like these guys to figure it out.   But considering INTs are going to be more costly moving forward in the playoffs I suggest they figure it out.    But hey what do I know.  
 

Go Bills!

 

 

[finn]

Warner's evidence is persuasive. He's saying Allen needs more patience, but many of the negative plays are the result of the receivers not reading blitz and running long-developing routes. He doesn't say if that's on Brady, the receivers, or both. Looks like that first interception is on Davis (again) for not breaking off his route to help Allen. The second one might just be on him, too, since who knows if he could have made the catch if he didn't trip over his own feet. In Warner's examples, Davis always seems to be in la-la land running his routes while Diggs seem to be either adjusting or just being open. 

 

Can't say I'm impressed by Brady. His excellent W/L record might be more the result of unshackled, revitalized Allen than better play designs. In fact, Dorsey might have been the superior coordinator; evidently the numbers back that up.

 

That would be ironic. McDermott shackles Allen, it all goes south, so he fires the blameless coordinator and hires an inferior one, but also agrees to unleash Allen, who comes alive, making the inferior coordinator and foolish coach look like geniuses. Meanwhile, Dorsey, not McDermott, is painted as the bad guy who almost doomed a Super Bowl team. 

 

How's that for a counter-narrative? 

[Ralonzo]

14 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Exactly. Receivers running too deep on all-out blitz plays is a real problem. What I’d like to see is if the Bills cleaned that up in the second half.

 

I really thought they had an answer in the second half on a play where Allen saw the blitz coming, called an alert and motioned Shakir in tight from the stack left in to a tight formation to make him the hot, where he'd be able to break immediately on a shallow crosser into the voided zone if the backers fired on the blitz which they were showing. Friggin brilliant QB'ing. Then Shakir makes no adjustment and runs his normal route to the regular depth with his back to Allen for 10 yards and the blitz gets home and it's a negative play. And I'm wondering if the Bills even have a sight adjust for a 0 blitz in the damn playbook... which is why the Dolphins went back to it over and over.

 

Honestly suprised Warner didn't spin that play, I was freaking the hell out watching it happen live (while 3/4 of the GDT is talking about benching Allen and/or drafting Penix)

 

Edit: @HappyDays zeroed in on this play too, it was Shakir not Sherfield, and at 10:45 of the 3rd quarter as he pointed out.

Edited January 11 by Ralonzo

[streetkings01]

1 hour ago, Taro Nimbus said:

Who’s Jason Allen?

Isn’t he that bum CB the Dolphins drafted the year we drafted McKelvin?

[Punching Bag]

13 minutes ago, Lost said:

Can we hire Kurt Warner as QB coach?

 

I am sure Kurt Warner has no interest in working that many hours but maybe Jordan Palmer can bring him in for a session with Josh and other QBs he tutors.

[Dan Darragh]

1 hour ago, Taro Nimbus said:

Who’s Jason Allen?

Isn't he our QB2?

[Heavy Kevi]

47 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Didn't watch this one, but watched Kurt Warner videos on Josh Allen in the past and it always felt like Warner would judge Allen harshly for not being more of a strict pocket passer like Warner.

 

 

This is actually my general observation from past breakdowns as well.

 

He wants Josh to be a Tom Brady like QB but that's not who Josh is.

 

Love it or hate it Josh is high variance in his play style. It's frustrating at times but you can't take the trot out of a show horse.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

23 minutes ago, corta765 said:

Agreed. Brady I think is trying his best to not fully overhaul the offense as you really can't at this point while adding easier throws, motion, play action... basically all the sh*t Dorsey didn't do that limited the offense.

I expect whoever is the OC next year blends more of this regularly in and makes Kincaid/Shakir a larger focus the way Beasley was to have an easy option. Daboll really got the offense excelling once he got Josh on that page and presented it.

 

I think Warner has actually had some of the best analysis of Josh.

Daboll couldn’t produce a rush attack to save his life. I’m confused because everybody hated this guy when he was here and now everyone wants him back if he ever becomes available. 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

The weird thing is he played exactly one game, Week 1 vs the Rams last season, as a timing route pocket passer and then it just never happened again.

Yup, it’s as if it never happened, it is troubling that Joshes best performances as a QB have been when he plays that way, and he doesn’t seem to acknowledge it, and its like no-one points this out to him…, oh well.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited January 10 by Don Otreply

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Didn't watch this one, but watched Kurt Warner videos on Josh Allen in the past and it always felt like Warner would judge Allen harshly for not being more of a strict pocket passer like Warner.

 

 

 

Not a point made in this analysis at all.  The primary points were:

 

* Josh was not presented good options during cover zero blitz plays. Warner indicated this is a play design issue or a misread of the situation by the wide receivers.  Adjustments were made and the cover zero blitz plays were stopped by Miami.

* Josh was a tad quick on his reads and missed opportunities to hit open players within the structure of the play. 

 

There was not a harsh tone in what he was suggesting.  In fact, he called the outcome as minor adjustments that would help the Bills to stop beating themselves and would likely reduce turnovers. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Exactly. Receivers running too deep on all-out blitz plays is a real problem. What I’d like to see is if the Bills cleaned that up in the second half.

 

I didn't watch the Kurt Warner video yet but from my own viewing the WRs need to do better with sight adjustments. In the all-22 there's a play at 10:43 in the 3rd quarter, 3rd and 5. Miami sends an all out blitz and Allen is ultimately sacked for an 8 yard loss. Pre-snap you see Allen make eye contact with Shakir. I think Allen knows the blitz is coming and is trying to signal to Shakir to be ready. Post-snap the middle of the field is left completely wide open because of the blitz. Shakir could either stop and turn around, or run a quick slant to the middle, and it would be an easy pitch and catch. Allen looks at Shakir clearly anticipating this. Instead Shakir continues running his full route downfield and never turns his head around, and Allen has to eat the sack because there's no other hot route. If Shakir had made a sight adjustment to the blitz it's an easy 1st down, instead we punt.

 

Little things like this are why I'm still not fully convinced Brady is the answer. Too frequently the players are not prepared or on the same page and it's leading to too many negative plays.

[Marcus Aurelius]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Didn't watch this one, but watched Kurt Warner videos on Josh Allen in the past and it always felt like Warner would judge Allen harshly for not being more of a strict pocket passer like Warner.

 

 

Warner's points are valid

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Didn't watch this one, but watched Kurt Warner videos on Josh Allen in the past and it always felt like Warner would judge Allen harshly for not being more of a strict pocket passer like Warner.

 

What Kurt is trying to tell people, and maybe Josh, is that to make you even more dangerous is to be able to make plays from the pocket. Make your job easier. Everybody knows of the dynamic plays Josh makes off script, but if he made the plays on schedule teams wouldn't know how to defend him

[Billsfan1972]

I love how he complains about the bad read Josh made completing a 40 yarder to Diggs?  Is Kurt so negative on every QB or is this a Josh bias?

 

He says anticipate.  I guess anticipating Gabe does the right thing and catches the TD sin't part of the analysis?

 

And finally he too uses the example of the second down play, where there was an obvious PI not called on Knox and at the same time pointing out another reveiver open short of the goalline too. 

 

I guess the 29 completions (he did say the 30th was a mistake by Allen) didn't require analysis?  

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I didn't watch the Kurt Warner video yet but from my own viewing the WRs need to do better with sight adjustments. In the all-22 there's a play at 10:43 in the 3rd quarter, 3rd and 5. Miami sends an all out blitz and Allen is ultimately sacked for an 8 yard loss. Pre-snap you see Allen make eye contact with Shakir. I think Allen knows the blitz is coming and is trying to signal to Shakir to be ready. Post-snap the middle of the field is left completely wide open because of the blitz. Shakir could either stop and turn around, or run a quick slant to the middle, and it would be an easy pitch and catch. Allen looks at Shakir clearly anticipating this. Instead Shakir continues running his full route downfield and never turns his head around, and Allen has to eat the sack because there's no other hot route. If Shakir had made a sight adjustment to the blitz it's an easy 1st down, instead we punt.

 

Little things like this are why I'm still not fully convinced Brady is the answer. Too frequently the players are not prepared or on the same page and it's leading to too many negative plays.

 

While it is definitely a coaching issue, I'm not sure I can blame the guy thrown into the fire for not fixing everything on a poorly coached offense in less than 2 months.

 

I give Brady the benefit of the doubt that those things could be addressed with an entire training camp/season at the helm. But also another reason I point out that McD must give up the DC position and go back to overseeing all 3 phases.

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I love how he complains about the bad read Josh made completing a 40 yarder to Diggs?  Is Kurt so negative on every QB or is this a Josh bias?

 

He says anticipate.  I guess anticipating Gabe does the right thing and catches the TD sin't part of the analysis?

 

And finally he too uses the example of the second down play, where there was an obvious PI not called on Knox and at the same time pointing out another reveiver open short of the goalline too. 

 

I guess the 29 completions (he did say the 30th was a mistake by Allen) didn't require analysis?  

 

He can point out missed opportunities without it being a harsh criticism. I'd bet rewatching that tape, Josh would tell you the same thing. He already said as much in his immediate post games that he had a lot of throws he like back and missed opportunities on plays.

 

Doing basic analysis isnt bashing. The only way to improve is to look at that type of stuff.

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I didn't watch the Kurt Warner video yet but from my own viewing the WRs need to do better with sight adjustments. In the all-22 there's a play at 10:43 in the 3rd quarter, 3rd and 5. Miami sends an all out blitz and Allen is ultimately sacked for an 8 yard loss. Pre-snap you see Allen make eye contact with Shakir. I think Allen knows the blitz is coming and is trying to signal to Shakir to be ready. Post-snap the middle of the field is left completely wide open because of the blitz. Shakir could either stop and turn around, or run a quick slant to the middle, and it would be an easy pitch and catch. Allen looks at Shakir clearly anticipating this. Instead Shakir continues running his full route downfield and never turns his head around, and Allen has to eat the sack because there's no other hot route. If Shakir had made a sight adjustment to the blitz it's an easy 1st down, instead we punt.

 

Little things like this are why I'm still not fully convinced Brady is the answer. Too frequently the players are not prepared or on the same page and it's leading to too many negative plays.

The video is ALL about this issue. I recommend watching it. You'll like it.

[DapperCam]

2 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

The weird thing is he played exactly one game, Week 1 vs the Rams last season, as a timing route pocket passer and then it just never happened again.

 

I would argue Bills vs Raiders this season looked a lot like that too. Allen was a dink and dunk merchant, and crushed them with an almost perfect day. He looked like Tom Brady.

[bouds]

The first play should have been a TD, Knox was interfered with, and honestly I don't care about not throwing to the flat, but Kincaid was butt naked.  If Josh anticipates it it's an easy 6.  Easy for us to say they from this vantage point, but it was a good play call against that look.  Multiple options available to score.

[Royale with Cheese]

26 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I love how he complains about the bad read Josh made completing a 40 yarder to Diggs?  Is Kurt so negative on every QB or is this a Josh bias?

 

He says anticipate.  I guess anticipating Gabe does the right thing and catches the TD sin't part of the analysis?

 

And finally he too uses the example of the second down play, where there was an obvious PI not called on Knox and at the same time pointing out another reveiver open short of the goalline too. 

 

I guess the 29 completions (he did say the 30th was a mistake by Allen) didn't require analysis?  

 

He says it in beginning of the video.... it's because people on TV are talking about it (Buffalo's offensive struggles) and he wants to explain why.  Buffalo's offense has been criticized and he is showing us things he's seeing. 

 

This is what this video is about.  Why in the world are you expecting a breakdown of the 29 completions?

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The Bills faced a combination of Josh being a bit too fast on reads in some cases, in others he was not presented with good options.

 

Thought this was an excellent explanation and balanced by Warner.  The Bills were beating themselves. Then they adjusted.

 

 

 

 

Wow, on that uncalled-DPI play to Knox, Josh initially had Cook in the flat (Warner thinks it's a walk in TD if thrown promptly, I don't see it or he should know)

But OK- behind Knox, Kincaid was SCREAMINGLY WIDE open. 

 

Sheesh.

[RoyBatty is alive]

39 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I love how he complains about the bad read Josh made completing a 40 yarder to Diggs?  Is Kurt so negative on every QB or is this a Josh bias?

 

He says anticipate.  I guess anticipating Gabe does the right thing and catches the TD sin't part of the analysis?

 

And finally he too uses the example of the second down play, where there was an obvious PI not called on Knox and at the same time pointing out another reveiver open short of the goalline too. 

 

I guess the 29 completions (he did say the 30th was a mistake by Allen) didn't require analysis?  

The 40 yards to DIggs was, imo, 90% attributable to Diggs and was questonable decison but it worked out, I think Warner said something to the effect "Diggs cleaned it up", in other words was a questionable throw but Diggs made the play.

[Beck Water]

43 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I love how he complains about the bad read Josh made completing a 40 yarder to Diggs?  Is Kurt so negative on every QB or is this a Josh bias?

 

He says anticipate.  I guess anticipating Gabe does the right thing and catches the TD sin't part of the analysis?

 

And finally he too uses the example of the second down play, where there was an obvious PI not called on Knox and at the same time pointing out another reveiver open short of the goalline too. 

 

I guess the 29 completions (he did say the 30th was a mistake by Allen) didn't require analysis?  

 

Oh, Geesh.  The whole point of the video - stated at the very beginning - is that the Bills are playing well, but their offense could use a "tune up".

 

If you want to "tune up" a car, you don't focus on the 29 parts that are working well, you focus on the parts that need adjustment.

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, Geesh.  The whole point of the video - stated at the very beginning - is that the Bills are playing well, but their offense could use a "tune up".

 

If you want to "tune up" a car, you don't focus on the 29 parts that are working well, you focus on the parts that need adjustment.

 

Warner literally in this video: "That's the beautiful thing about Josh Allen. There isnt a thing he cant do."

 

Bills Fans: Why is Kurt Warner so mean to Josh!?!

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

This is actually my general observation from past breakdowns as well.

 

He wants Josh to be a Tom Brady like QB but that's not who Josh is.

 

Love it or hate it Josh is high variance in his play style. It's frustrating at times but you can't take the trot out of a show horse.

I respectfully disagree.  Look at Elway before Shanahan got there and after.  Josh MUST do more of what Warner says and he MUST quit doing stupid *****.  

 

You can't tell me he can't not grow up and quit doing the stupid stuff.