8th late-game defensive meltdown this season

[dave mcbride]

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

Edited November 27, 2023 by dave mcbride

[HomeskillitMoorman]

It’s McD’s specialty 

[mrags]

I can’t link because I didn’t save them and cannot provide screen shot because the files are too large. But here’s a copy and paste:

 

Nick Veronica @NickVeronica

Follow

The Bills have managed to lose 6 games by 6 points or less in the first 12 weeks of the season.

Congrats, no team in NFL history has done it more than that.

20 others matched that total — most recent were the 2015 Ravens & 2012 Panthers, whose D coordinator you might recognize.

 

And:

Michael F. Florio @MichaelFFlorio

 

Josh Allen threw for 339 yards and 2 TDs, while rushing for 81 and another 2 TDs. Scored 34 points. They lost.

3 times this year Josh Allen has scored to give the Bills a lead with under 2 minutes left and they've gone onto lose. It all comes down to one person

[Dablitzkrieg]

Only McD can manage to "lead" a team to a .500 record with an elite QB 

[YodaMan79]

The team need a different philosophical approach/direction.  Since 13 seconds, it's been steady decline, that's now full on accelerating. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Dablitzkrieg said:

Only McD can manage to "lead" a team to a .500 record with an elite QB 

The chargers have done it too with multiple coaches lol. We are having a very chargers season this year 

[Yobogoya!]

4 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

It’s McD’s specialty 

 

And the Process' mandate of self-reflection and learning from mistakes doesn't seem to apply. 

 

Why is he so scared to play tight coverage and go for the win on those late drives? I mean, we lose anyway... surely there's no reason not to try it at this point, right? 

[Johnnycage46]

It's pretty disgusting.  This year we are essentially the Chargers.  Every year I look at the Chargers with Herbert and can't believe they are a .500ish team.  Then you see their games and you see their coach and it all makes sense.  We are Chargers East this year.  Allen has eye-popping stats and we're .500.  Sucks.

[Big Turk]

The only solution is to have the ball last so the other team doesn't have any time to respond. 

 

It worked 3 times last season for them(Baltimore, Miami and Detroit) where Bass kicked the winning FG with no time left in 2 of them and 2 seconds left against the Ravens.

 

Frustrating watching the Ravens D shut down Herbert and the Chargers twice in those situations last night.

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

And the Process' mandate of self-reflection and learning from mistakes doesn't seem to apply. 

 

Why is he so scared to play tight coverage and go for the win on those late drives? I mean, we lose anyway... surely there's no reason not to try it at this point, right? 

It all makes sense now. Before I thought maybe Elam just wasn’t good. He might be the best CB in the league but he refuses to listen to McDonalds-Clappy-Meal and his philosophy of giving WRs 10-15yard cushions all the time. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

From literal day 1….of this defense isn’t turning people over, they are t stoping teams. This scheme, this defense, this coach sucks. It’s been the defense from 2019 Texans loss on. It’s always the defense. Early on Poyer and Hyde were elite and making plays on the backend to turn people over constantly. And QB willing to take the easy throw will shred us. We never stop anyone legitimately. It’s turn overs or the other team has whatever they want on us every 3rd down. We used to be able to beat the bad QBs, now we can’t even do that. This coach needs to go tonight.

[technobot]

Injuries notwithstanding, we DOMINATED TOP yesterday:

 

40:30 (Bills) 26:53 (Eagles

 

Yet I had seen this movie before. The defense stopped making stops in the fourth quarter. Give them credit for holding the line, and tip my hat to Elliott for making an all-time kick.

 

But this kind of performance predates McDermott, it was a drought special. We've all seen it a million times. Defense plays above expectations for 3/4 of the game giving us a chance. They get trampled at the end anyway as the other side simply pulls away. Patriots with Brady were particularly cruel with this kind of letdown.

 

The difference is we clearly have a franchise quarterback. Like, Romo doesn't even try to hide his giant ***** man crush for Allen anymore. Two weeks ago he casually dropped "one of the all-time greats" referring to Allen, a player who is 27!!! You can hear Romo coaching Allen during the broadcasts because he knows #17 was sent to us on a rocket ship and the last son of Krypton is being wasted. He knows Allen is capable of being the most dominant player in the league.

 

Sincerely, thank you Sean McDermott for getting us to another tier. Hopefully we find the right OFFENSIVE coach to maximize our HOF QB's career.

Edited November 27, 2023 by technobot

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

It all makes sense now. Before I thought maybe Elam just wasn’t good. He might be the best CB in the league but he refuses to listen to McDonalds-Clappy-Meal and his philosophy of giving WRs 10-15yard cushions all the time. 

 

It does make you wonder why we drafted a guy who excels precisely at that style of coverage, just to not play him - and to not play that coverage when it matters most. It defies logic. 

 

Makes me kind of glad we hung onto Elam tho... If we do cut bait with McD this offseason and bring in a new D-coordinator, I'll be very curious to see how Elam further develops. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

The only solution is to have the ball last so the other team doesn't have any time to respond. 

 

It worked 3 times last season for them(Baltimore, Miami and Detroit) where Bass kicked the winning FG with no time left in 2 of them and 2 seconds left against the Ravens.

 

Frustrating watching the Ravens D shut down Herbert and the Chargers twice in those situations last night.

Bass has been part of the problem 

[entropyrules]

13 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The chargers have done it too with multiple coaches lol. We are having a very chargers season this year 

we (the Bills) are the Chargers of the East..the only non-parallel is we didn't screw the fan base by moving to Toronto

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Teams are playing defense this year. It’s allowed. Teams are making big stops against good QBs every week. I don’t know how in a year where defenses made a huge comeback, this guy’s defense is costing us the playoffs…the guy isn’t even good at his own specialty. This has been the problem from the day after the Texans playoff choke job. There’s so much pressure on the offense to be perfect. Every week every season. God forbid the offense ever has a bad day they never get to lean on this defense 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

The only solution is to have the ball last so the other team doesn't have any time to respond. 

 

It worked 3 times last season for them(Baltimore, Miami and Detroit) where Bass kicked the winning FG with no time left in 2 of them and 2 seconds left against the Ravens.

 

Frustrating watching the Ravens D shut down Herbert and the Chargers twice in those situations last night.

we did have the ball last this game. 20 seconds left and one timeout. Should’ve been two timeouts but Mcdummy decided to waste one trying to ice the kicker.

 

could’ve at least attempted a couple of passes to get into field goal range for the win. Instead thought the best move was to take a knee.

[PBF81]

So at what point does the narrative that he's some sort of defensive genius begin to see the luster fade?  

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by PBF81

[Simon]

Just now, PBF81 said:

So at what point does the narrative that he's some sort of defensive genius begin to see the luster fade?  

 

 

 

Gee, we're not seeing anything like that all....... 

[LarryMadman]

27 minutes ago, YodaMan79 said:

The team need a different philosophical approach/direction.  Since 13 seconds, it's been steady decline, that's now full on accelerating. 

Players aren't dumb, they see it, it is absolutely affecting them on the field. 

[Comebackkid]

21 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

The only solution is to have the ball last so the other team doesn't have any time to respond. 

 

It worked 3 times last season for them(Baltimore, Miami and Detroit) where Bass kicked the winning FG with no time left in 2 of them and 2 seconds left against the Ravens.

 

Frustrating watching the Ravens D shut down Herbert and the Chargers twice in those situations last night.

In the superbowl years they were very good at having the ball last and when it didn't work you could usually count on Bruce to make a play.  But they were very good at scoring on the last drive of the game

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Gee, we're not seeing anything like that all....... 

 

We're seeing a lot of general criticism, but that narrative is still generally intact.

 

Lotsa people still referring to him as a "defensive minded" coach and his great Ds.  Maybe more nationally.  

 

I just looked, big problem for us, our run D ranks 20th in yards and 29th in YPC. 

 

 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

We're seeing a lot of general criticism, but that narrative is still generally intact.

 

Lotsa people still referring to him as a "defensive minded" coach and his great Ds.  Maybe more nationally.  

 

I just looked, big problem for us, our run D ranks 20th in yards and 29th in YPC. 

 

 

 

That is a giant load of bunk you're using to create a nonsense narrative just so you can rail against it and show how right you are.

[Charles Romes]

It’s Leslie Frazier’s fault 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

35 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The chargers have done it too with multiple coaches lol. We are having a very chargers season this year 

 

We even changed up our offense to make it more charger-y.  

[BillsFan130]

18 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Teams are playing defense this year. It’s allowed. Teams are making big stops against good QBs every week. I don’t know how in a year where defenses made a huge comeback, this guy’s defense is costing us the playoffs…the guy isn’t even good at his own specialty. This has been the problem from the day after the Texans playoff choke job. There’s so much pressure on the offense to be perfect. Every week every season. God forbid the offense ever has a bad day they never get to lean on this defense 

Yep and that’s literally the difference between the bills and teams like ravens/chiefs. (Even Miami as of late)

Chiefs especially have gotten bailed out many times by their defence.

 

Bills defence not once has picked up the slack for a bad day by the O

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

That is a giant load of bunk you're using to create a nonsense narrative just so you can rail against it and show how right you are.

 

Glad you know me so well 

 

I enjoy debate and discussion.  Always happy to admit when I'm wrong.

 

You won't find many if any posts by me of gloating.  

 

Believe what you will however.

 

It does seem that those that were off on McD however, are having difficulty processing it emotionally. 

 

Appreciate your faith in your fellow humanity (me) though.  😏. 

 

 

[racketmaster]

For a defensive coach, he has been anything but clutch when this team has needed a stop at the end of a game. There have been too many Hail Murray’s, 13 seconds, 12 men etc for a guy that preaches defense and special teams. It is like his brain siezes up during big moments. 

[Big Turk]

Apparently this goes back to his days as a DC in Philly...maybe that is the real reason why Reid let him go...because at the key moments, his defense fails over and over again.

 

Look at these comments from Reid after a late loss by Philly in 2010:

 

 

"FOR 3 QUARTERS WE HAD IT RIGHT THERE."

[BADOLBILZ]

 

He doesn't have answers late in the game once an offense has figured out his initial plans.

 

In fairness,  with regard to yesterday this is generally what happens to defense's against great offensive teams.........even Belichick had lot's of big games where his second half defense looked bad and blew or almost blew games they had in hand.

 

But to lose games late to bad offense's like McD has this year is unconscionable.

 

And to never have anything in the bag of tricks to stop the bleeding despite having a veteran laden defense and so many years in the same system?    It's very discouraging.

 

 

 

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

17 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

That is a giant load of bunk you're using to create a nonsense narrative just so you can rail against it and show how right you are.

People on this forum have pinned yesterday's loss on the offense and have said that the defense was "fabulous" yesterday.  I think they were actually serious.

[dorquemada]

45 minutes ago, technobot said:

 

Sincerely, thank you Sean McDermott for getting us to another tier. Hopefully we find the right OFFENSIVE coach to maximize our HOF QB's career.

 

So they were 7-9 the year before McDonothing.  Do you see them getting to 8 wins this year? 

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Apparently this goes back to his days as a DC in Philly...maybe that is the real reason why Reid let him go...because at the key moments, his defense fails over and over again.

 

Look at these comments from Reid after a late loss by Philly in 2010:

 

 

"FOR 3 QUARTERS WE HAD IT RIGHT THERE."

 

There you have it folks.  Maybe the new name for McD - Sean and 3 quarters

[MPL]

I don't want McDermott back next year... 

 

But man, in these "game-of-the-year" type games that the Bills always lose, it seems like — more times than not — teams are making the most miraculous, improbable, hyper-low percentage plays against the Bills when the game is on the line. We're talking about a completed hail mary, Justin Jefferson's improbable catch, a 59-yard field goal in a driving rain. 

 

Sometimes it just feels like divine intervention is not in our favor. McDermott's a religious guy... is he not religioning right? 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 hour ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

And the Process' mandate of self-reflection and learning from mistakes doesn't seem to apply. 

 

Why is he so scared to play tight coverage and go for the win on those late drives? I mean, we lose anyway... surely there's no reason not to try it at this point, right? 

That’s just who he is unfortunately. It’s been 7 years and he still makes the same exact mistakes and we’re in decline…and there’s still a faction of people here that want more of it. 
 

I’ll never understand it. 

[BillsVet]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He doesn't have answers late in the game once an offense has figured out his initial plans.

 

In fairness,  with regard to yesterday this is generally what happens to defense's against great offensive teams.........even Belichick had lot's of big games where his second half defense looked bad and blew or almost blew games they had in hand.

 

But to lose games late to bad offense's like McD has this year is unconscionable.

 

And to never have anything in the bag of tricks to stop the bleeding despite having a veteran laden defense and so many years in the same system?    It's very discouraging.

 

On the broadcast Romo kept talking about how Philly was getting their running game outside and that was the key for them offensively.  I remember one play in the RZ where Rousseau single-handedly stopped a run out there, but it happened rarely if ever beside that time.  

 

It's as if McD knows the scheme is vulnerable against the run and wants to get off to quick starts and force opponents to throw into that zone.  When things don't go that way, he's runs out of ideas quickly.  That defense seems especially weak up the middle and I know Jones being out hurts, but it's unreal they haven't developed a way to mitigate that by week 12 and with all the DL investment.  

[juno999]

41 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

So at what point does the narrative that he's some sort of defensive genius begin to see the luster fade?  

 

 

I'd say 2 years and 13 seconds ago.  Give or take.

[Repulsif]

18 minutes ago, MPL said:

I don't want McDermott back next year... 

 

But man, in these "game-of-the-year" type games that the Bills always lose, it seems like — more times than not — teams are making the most miraculous, improbable, hyper-low percentage plays against the Bills when the game is on the line. We're talking about a completed hail mary, Justin Jefferson's improbable catch, a 59-yard field goal in a driving rain. 

 

Sometimes it just feels like divine intervention is not in our favor. McDermott's a religious guy... is he not religioning right? 

The cigarette man still lives...

[Big Turk]

30 minutes ago, MPL said:

I don't want McDermott back next year... 

 

But man, in these "game-of-the-year" type games that the Bills always lose, it seems like — more times than not — teams are making the most miraculous, improbable, hyper-low percentage plays against the Bills when the game is on the line. We're talking about a completed hail mary, Justin Jefferson's improbable catch, a 59-yard field goal in a driving rain. 

 

Sometimes it just feels like divine intervention is not in our favor. McDermott's a religious guy... is he not religioning right? 

 

Yeah it really is amazing....don't forget 13 seconds and that Butker drilled a 58 yard FG to tie it and send it to OT.  It's not like it was some chip shot.

 

Hail Murray...the Hail Hurts, which for all intents and purposes was the exact same play just not at the end of the game...

 

AJ Brown fumble being overturned that would have sealed the win in OT.

 

Just seems there is some sinister force at work that wants Buffalo fans to not only suffer but do so in the most cruel ways imaginable.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Big Turk

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah it really is amazing....don't forget 13 seconds and that Butker drilled a 58 yard FG to tie it and send it to OT.  It's not like it was some chip shot.

 

Hail Murray...the Hail Hurts, which for all intents and purposes was the exact same play just not at the end of the game...

 

AJ Brown fumble being overturned that would have sealed the win in OT.

 

Just seems there is some sinister force at work that wants Buffalo fans to not only suffer but do so in the most cruel ways imaginable.

It's not a mystery why some teams win and some teams lose imo

 

Some of it is luck, and some of it is not. The ones who win more regularly have figured out a way to address the latter.

[MPL]

7 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Just seems there is some sinister force at work that wants Buffalo fans to not only suffer but do so in the most cruel ways imaginable.

Only logical explanation is that Josh Allen made a deal with the devil to become the most physically gifted QB of all time with the fine print reading that no matter what Josh Allen did, it would never be enough — for eternity, or something. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by MPL