Keeping Dorsey blew the season..

[BillMafia716ix]

Loses to the Jets, Broncos, and Patriots really sunk the season. The offense has looked completely different since Joe Brady took over. Now the offense is clicking but we are now left with zero room for error the rest of the way. McDermott defense wasn’t solid today but they had been playing well up until today. We just put ourselves in a terrible hole due to the terrible offensive play earlier in the year. We waited too long to fire Dorsey

Edited November 27, 2023 by BillMafia716ix

[Dick_Cheney]

It'll definitely be a bummer when we score 30+ points in every game for the rest of the year but still miss out on the playoffs. Woulda coulda shoulda, but right now it sure seems that he was a massive part of the problem.

[BillsFan130]

Agreed- but at the same time bills aren’t winning a SB with MCD as a head coach.

 

Maybe the best long picture scenario is for the bills to lose so they can finally replace MCD.

 

(although I can never go for the bills to lose of course)

[Steptide]

Patriots and broncos loss wernt really on Dorsey. I agree the offense sucked for way too long, but it's time McDermott owns up to his terrible end of game coaching and changes something in his philosophy 

[ToGoGo]

Explains Diggs behavior last year and this year. 
 

The absolute most important news is that there was nothing wrong with Allen. No matter what happens the rest of this year or who coaches next year, Allen is back to MVP form. 

[Dick_Cheney]

2 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Patriots and broncos loss wernt really on Dorsey. I agree the offense sucked for way too long, but it's time McDermott owns up to his terrible end of game coaching and changes something in his philosophy 

Philosphy like that can't be changed unfortunately. It's part of his core identity and it influences every single thing that he does. He has to go.

[DuckyBoys]

McDermott isnt changing  Its ingrained into him He's this generations Schottenheimer  Not going to adjust to modern football and not needs the offense to play a certain style to allow his defensive philosophy to even have a glimmer of hope in working

[sven233]

While the game obviously didn't go our way because of many reasons, specifically McDermott decisions and poor officiating, watching Josh be Josh again has truly been refreshing these last couple weeks.  Had Dorsey been out a lot earlier this season, even with the crap McDermott has pulled this year, we probably have 3 more wins a least. 

 

But terrible decisions aside, McDermott not managing his staff well is worth of getting fired all on its own.  First keeping Frazier too long and then keeping Dorsey too long does not reflect well on his management skills.  He has actively held this team back for not only this season, but in years past as well.  There are literally millions of Madden players out there that can manage a game, time, time outs, and game situations better than he can.

[Dr.Sack]

McDermott, Dorsey & Tyler Norwood have buried this team. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The offense has given us the lead late 3x. The defense cost us every year from the beginning. Starting with Houston. It cost us a Super Bowl and now we aren’t going to make the playoffs. We have wasted half of Allen’s prime and if we start over at coach, next year will probably be a wash. Just Un*****ing real how pathetic this defense is when it counts. McDermott is useless 

[BfloBillsFan]

Spot on!  If Brady was the OC, Bills would have beaten the NYJ (game 1), Pats, Jags.  That would be 7-3 and a good shot at the #1 seed.

15 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

McDermott, Dorsey & Tyler Norwood have buried this team. 

Officiating was arguably a bigger factor today than Mc Dermott 

Edited November 27, 2023 by BfloBillsFan

[LABILLBACKER]

22 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Patriots and broncos loss wernt really on Dorsey. I agree the offense sucked for way too long, but it's time McDermott owns up to his terrible end of game coaching and changes something in his philosophy 

I'll change his philosophy with a pink slip. Listen we're now seeing why Daboll hated McDermott.  Sean wanted a conservative OC he could control. 

[BMWR100RT]

Can we call him "No motion shotgun draw" Dorsey from now on?

[John from Riverside]

And I have to agree with that

[Nextmanup]

50 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Loses to the Jets, Broncos, and Patriots really sunk the season. The offense has looked completely different since Joe Brady took over. Now the offense is clicking but we are now left with zero room for error the rest of the way. McDermott defense wasn’t solid today but they had been playing well up until today. We just put ourselves in a terrible hole due to the terrible offensive play earlier in the year. We waited too long to fire Dorsey

And yet how many people here, since FOREVER, pissed on the suggestion to move on from a coordinator, especially in season.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

now the season has to give keeping Dorsey it's Kiko Alonzo jersey...

[MasterStrategist]

52 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Loses to the Jets, Broncos, and Patriots really sunk the season. The offense has looked completely different since Joe Brady took over. Now the offense is clicking but we are now left with zero room for error the rest of the way. McDermott defense wasn’t solid today but they had been playing well up until today. We just put ourselves in a terrible hole due to the terrible offensive play earlier in the year. We waited too long to fire Dorsey

No doubt, 100% agree.

 

Been saying since LY, Dorsey is a SUPER smart coordinator,  but he's ADHD out there.  No rhythm/too emotional/overthinking situations.

 

His communication in press conferences showed his personality/issues.  He's almost like that professor in college that was "too smart", couldn't communicate effectively/put too much into weekly gameplans for Josh.

 

I think his concepts were good, Brady is using those same concepts right now. Difference is Brady is simplifying some of the weekly playcalls and playsheets.

 

Still lacking some WR talent, but we might have our coordinator.  2 straight games with improved/consistent results, and fewer turnovers

[Virgil]

Let me start by saying, there's going to be A LOT of assumptions in this post.

 

Assuming the offense and Josh are back to where we saw them prior to Dorsey being hired, I'm starting to think that the players on the team knew Dorsey was the problem all along and only Diggs had the balls to say something.  If we believe what we hear from the media, Brady is using the same playbook and terminology, just calling the plays to his liking.  This isn't a new system by any means, yet Josh and the offense look magically like they did in 2021.  So, if nothing besides the person calling the plays changed, would that not imply the entire issue was Dorsey's ability to game plan and call plays, not the players or playbook itself?

 

With that, assuming that Dorsey was "Allen's choice" and was let down when Dorsey was fired, is it an issue that Josh didn't speak up sooner?  Or that Josh didn't recognize the issues with the offense sooner?  I understand that players will always take the blame for losses and don't ever throw anyone else under the bus.  But if the problem was as simple as changing the plays, why didn't Josh take more command on the field with audibles or going to management sooner?  

 

I don't think any of this makes sense.  Long story short.  For a simple fix, how was it not called out by the players sooner, unless it was behind closed doors.  

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Virgil

[MikePJ76]

OMG yet another back handed blame Josh Allen post.

 

You guys are going to blame him for the winter being cold soon.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, MikePJ76 said:

OMG yet another back handed blame Josh Allen post.

 

You guys are going to blame him for the winter being cold soon.

 

This is becoming a game of Clue.  "It was Josh Allen, in the training room, with a Theragun!"

[whorlnut]

4 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Let me start by saying, there's going to be A LOT of assumptions in this post.

 

Assuming the offense and Josh are back to where we saw them prior to Dorsey being hired, I'm starting to think that the players on the team knew Dorsey was the problem all along and only Diggs had the balls to say something.  If we believe what we hear from the media, Brady is using the same playbook and terminology, just calling the plays to his liking.  This isn't a new system by any means, yet Josh and the offense look magically like they did in 2021.  So, if nothing besides the person calling the plays changed, would that not imply the entire issue was Dorsey's ability to game plan and call plays, not the players or playbook itself?

 

With that, assuming that Dorsey was "Allen's choice" and was let down when Dorsey was fired, is it an issue that Josh didn't speak up sooner?  Or that Josh didn't recognize the issues with the offense sooner?  I understand that players will always take the blame for losses and don't ever throw anyone else under the bus.  But if the problem was as simple as changing the plays, why didn't Josh take more command on the field with audibles or going to management sooner?  

 

I don't think any of this makes sense.  Long story short.  For a simple fix, how was it not called out by the players sooner, unless it was behind closed doors.  

 

 

Read all that for the only thing that made sense in all of it. The very last paragraph where you say “I don’t think any of this makes sense”. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

There is one big problem and it's the coach.  Blaming Allen is so stupid 

[Donuts and Doritos]

Franchise QB's, not named AARON Rodgers, don't call out coaches or teammates. They're expected to lead on & off the field by saying the right things.

 

Now Diva WRs on the other hand can say any damn thing they want.

 

At least, that's the expectation/stereotype.

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[Virgil]

2 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

OMG yet another back handed blame Josh Allen post.

 

You guys are going to blame him for the winter being cold soon.

 

I'm not necessarily blaming Josh, but I do see how you would take it that way.  In this scenario, Josh so happens to be the one delivering the plays and commanding the offense.  

 

While I'm happy the offense appears to be back, it just sits weird with me that it was fixed so easily and not really addressed sooner by anyone else

[Wayne Arnold]

Dorsey wasn't the problem.

 

It has always been McDermott. It becomes apparent with each game just how much he stinks.

[Breakout Squad]

I thought Josh looked good last night 

[Roundybout]

I mean the Dorsey hire made all the sense in the world. An in-house guy that worked with Josh through his rise, who knew the system, and who Josh liked. It’s just too bad he has the playcalling acumen of a box turtle. 
 

I don’t think it’s any kind of issue that Josh wasn’t public with it. He strikes me as a guy who won’t be publicly angry or critical. 

[y2zipper]

I think it's a difference in role. As the receiver, Diggs is allowed to be the voice of dissention when they need one. Allen is not.

[Roundybout]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

Dorsey wasn't the problem.

 

It has always been McDermott. It becomes apparent with each game just how much he stinks.

Dorsey wasn’t THE problem but he was a HUGE problem. 

[MPL]

When Daboll left and reports came out that said Josh Allen would be involved in the OC decision, it was assumed that Josh wanted Dorsey to be promoted OC. But perhaps it wasn't something that Josh was advocating for, but rather, something he just went along with. I don't know. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by MPL

[Virgil]

6 minutes ago, Breakout Squad said:

I thought Josh looked good last night 

 

This has nothing to do with how he looked last night

[fridge]

If Dorsey was the actual problem — then the Miami game and similar beatdowns last year sure seems like a strange outlier.

 

While we are rampantly speculating, I think McDermott put the leash on Josh running this season and lifted it in desperation.

 

It’s too convenient to point to Dorsey when the catalyst is our game choking HC. Two of the dumb losses this year with Dorsey were with Josh trotting off the field with the lead.

[Sherlock Holmes]

12 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Read all that for the only thing that made sense in all of it. The very last paragraph where you say “I don’t think any of this makes sense”. 

Puke on another one of Virgil's posts and we gots a problem...

[Virgil]

Just now, Sherlock Holmes said:

Puke on another one of Virgil's posts and we gots a problem...

 

It was confusing to write, and I'm sure to read.  I promise, I have a thought in this brain of mine that makes sense.  I'm just trash at articulating today

[HomeskillitMoorman]

It's on McD. But yes, Diggs knew. He's known for a while. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Just now, Virgil said:

 

It was confusing to write, and I'm sure to read.  I promise, I have a thought in this brain of mine that makes sense.  I'm just trash at articulating today

It's OK Virg, I'm trash at articulating everyday

[strive_for_five_guy]

Just because Dorsey can’t call plays and Brady can, doesn’t mean that Josh should also have had the extra burden to call the plays too.  Sure, Josh can audible out of certain looks, but he’s already juggling plenty during a game.

[Yobogoya!]

5 minutes ago, fridge said:

If Dorsey was the actual problem — then the Miami game and similar beatdowns last year sure seems like a strange outlier.

 

While we are rampantly speculating, I think McDermott put the leash on Josh running this season and lifted it in desperation.

 

It’s too convenient to point to Dorsey when the catalyst is our game choking HC. Two of the dumb losses this year with Dorsey were with Josh trotting off the field with the lead.

 

Dorsey's biggest problem seemed to be that the league figured him out and he couldn't adjust his tendencies. The predictability of his play-calling was his undoing. 

 

The more teams think they know what's coming the easier it is for them to be aggressive. 

 

Hell, we had fans on this board calling out his plays before they happened. If couch coaches can see it, you know the real ones can. 

[Since1981]

We have to think about the wider roles and personalities.

 

McD. had the position, responsibility and MUST have personality (Cinci playoff). He failed to act timely. OC debacle is 90% on HC.

Diggs had team position and personality to speak up, and he did but was somehow placated. 

Allen had team position but not the kind of personality to speak up aggressively. Likely did speak-up when the time finally came

 

 

[msw2112]

14 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

I mean the Dorsey hire made all the sense in the world. An in-house guy that worked with Josh through his rise, who knew the system, and who Josh liked. It’s just too bad he has the playcalling acumen of a box turtle. 
 

I don’t think it’s any kind of issue that Josh wasn’t public with it. He strikes me as a guy who won’t be publicly angry or critical. 

 

I agree with this.  It's almost like clockwork that teams promote their QB coach to OC, particularly after a few years of a successful offense and a productive QB.  Hiring Dorsey was the right decision, and there's nothing out of the ordinary with Allen supporting it.  The real question was whether they should have brought Dorsey back for a 2nd season, or whether they waited too long to let him go this season.  Clearly, the offense is much better with Brady calling plays.  The run game is working, guys' talents are being used, players are being "schemed" open, etc.  The wheel route to Cook (which was perfectly thrown and was simply a drop) was a fantastic play call that took what the defense gave them, and was set up by prior calls.  Cook should have waltzed into the end zone.  Those types of calls were not happening under Dorsey.