DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, Virgil said:

It's interesting to me that McD said after the Cincy game that he wasn't considering anything regarding Dorsey, and now Dorsey is termed.  

That’s not surprising. McDermott never gives any info at press conferences.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, 34-30 said:

Has anyone considered that perhaps this is just who Allen IS and that coaching has hidden it up to this point?

 

Have you considered that another coach made the most of our players while the recently fired coach made the worst of them?

[GETTOTHE50]

2 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

That’s not surprising. McDermott never gives any info at press conferences.

Unless he’s concerned about certain star players 

[Casual fan]

Does firing coordinators mid-season often work to turn teams around?

 

I have the idea somehow that it is usually just the beginning of the end.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Daboll is coming back here to be HC, not OC.  Someone earlier mentioned a McD power play in canning Dorsey.  Josh has a little more leverage than McD, and if this season goes up in flames and Daboll gets canned we’ll see who has the juice at OBD. 

 

I dont think there is any chance McD and Daboll work together again, thats for sure.  I mean maybe I am wrong but that relationship was definitely on the outs.  If Daboll were coming back here, McD would be out like you said.  I dunno if thats what will happen but in that scenario yeah.

[Seventeen]

37 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Expect Allen to get close to 20 picks this year.  Think about that!

 

If we make the playoffs, who cares ? Just for reference and in one less game, Mahomes has 8 and Tua 7. 

[henry jones]

9 minutes ago, Casual fan said:

Does firing coordinators mid-season often work to turn teams around?

 

I have the idea somehow that it is usually just the beginning of the end.

Definitely not ideal.  Would’ve been better to at least wait til the bye week but this couldn’t be delayed any longer.  Should’ve happened a lot sooner honestly 

[JaCrispy]

50 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Josh hasn’t been the same since he knocked up that barmaid. Being a Dad will put you over the edge. I know. 

So you’re saying that maybe if he goes back, and knocks her up again, it will reverse the curse? 🤔

 

Mmmm, I like the way you think…

 

[SirAndrew]

47 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Have you ever changed a newborn’s diaper?  Bad things man. 

It still beats watching a shotgun snap on fourth and one, Gabe Davis dropping the ball, and Spencer Brown blocking. 

[davefan66]

3 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

It still beats watching a shotgun snap on fourth and one, Gabe Davis dropping the ball, and Spencer Brown blocking. 

Was that the breaking point for McD?

[The Wiz]

40 minutes ago, Irv said:

The Highmark Stadium P.A. announcer and the guy who pushes the freight train horn button should be fired.    

BRING BACK THE ***** STAMPEDING BUFFALO!!!

[Riverboat Ritchie]

I feel bad for the guy as a person but this was needed. 
 

This year at the J-ville game a bunch of us before the game were hanging out up front in stands for warmups  and I remember watching Dorsey some. Watching him I told my wife, man that guy looks nervous. He was by himself just starring out into nothing and talking to no one.  It was bizarre.  Just seemed to be in over his head

 

contrast that with 2019, on field before game and saw Daboll.  He took pic with me and young son.  He was out there talking with players and gave Josh a big hug before game. 
 

Dorsey needed to stay a QB coach longer or too bad the Giants didn’t take him with Daboll. Wish him the best but this needed to happen. 

[Captain Hindsight]

23 minutes ago, Casual fan said:

Does firing coordinators mid-season often work to turn teams around?

 

I have the idea somehow that it is usually just the beginning of the end.

One example was the Ravens fired Cam Cameron mid season And replaced him with Jim Caldwell. 
 

Ravens won the Super Bowl

[Wayne Arnold]

3 hours ago, 34-30 said:

No. I'd do what this staff has attempted to do. Reign him in and make him a better overall QB.  He's not cooperating.

 

If the 2nd or 3rd best quarterback on the planet isn't good enough then the coaching staff absolutely sucks at their jobs.

 

Leads the NFL in touchdowns and the turnovers are overstated.

 

[vincec]

44 minutes ago, Virgil said:

It's interesting to me that McD said after the Cincy game that he wasn't considering anything regarding Dorsey, and now Dorsey is termed.  

The vote of confidence is practically a guarantee that a firing is forthcoming.

[Patrick Duffy]

12 minutes ago, Casual fan said:

Does firing coordinators mid-season often work to turn teams around?

 

I have the idea somehow that it is usually just the beginning of the end.

 

I don't know the stats, but in this particular case I'm not sure it can get but so much worse. Imo it's better it happened now than sticking it out til later.

 

Reason I say that is because it's early enough that you still have time to make a run so why not since you know all you need with Dorsey, so there's a chance players respond differently for the guy taking over. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

27 minutes ago, Seventeen said:

 

If we make the playoffs, who cares ? Just for reference and in one less game, Mahomes has 8 and Tua 7. 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

2 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

 

Like a sad version of the Kevin James meme

[hondo in seattle]

Typically firing an OC in the middle of the season doesn't result in a huge improvement.

 

But as Dan Orlovsky adamantly observed, "The Bills offense is schematically broken."   We've heard other ex-NFL players and coaches imply, or outright say, similar things.

 

That's not an Allen thing.  That's not a McD thing.  That's a Dorsey thing.  

 

Maybe Brady can help fix it. 

 

As a fan, I can only hope.  

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

1 minute ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Like a sad version of the Kevin James meme

I'm so depressed  🤣

[realtruelove]

30 minutes ago, Virgil said:

It's interesting to me that McD said after the Cincy game that he wasn't considering anything regarding Dorsey, and now Dorsey is termed.  

In the real world, an empty endorsement is the kiss of death.  The element of surprise.  Dead man walking.  See Fredo Corleone.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

He was 22nd in the league last year. You don't get to take away the interceptions Josh should have had the last few years and then also argue the ones he has had this year shouldn't have happened. He was incredibly lucky the last two years. Balls fell thru so many defender hands I couldn't count. 

 

All that means is you watch Bills football.  Mahomes has dropped ints all the time too.

[BobbyC81]

7 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Should have canned McClappy too, obviously. Dorsey is the scapegoat. He didn’t drop balls or throw INTs or fumble the ball. X4

Exactly.  After yesterday’s game, I would’ve more expected Sean or the special teams coach get fired.  What did Dorsey do wrong yesterday?   Scored the last TD too quickly?   With Josh again in turnover mode, he called runs for every play of a touchdown drive!

[Best Williams Available]

5 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

I don't understand how anyone is blaming the execution of the players for these losses as if there's no direct correlation between player success, playcalling, and game preparation during the week. 

The coaches are responsible for getting their players ready to play and execute the gameplan.  The coaches are responsible for the gameplan. 

 

When one guy is making a blunder then it's on the player.  When everyone is doing it then it is on the coaching. 

This is it. A player or 2 can have a bad game or 2 but the team as a whole for 5 weeks have had bad games. That’s coaching top to bottom.

 

There have been the 1-2 good players per game on each side of the ball during this too. But they vary.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Who does Mahomes have outside of Kelce that’s better than Davis? I agree Burrow has crazy weapons. 

Their rookie Rashee Rice makes more plays than Davis this year 

[hondo in seattle]

19 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

He has a much better O line and that's no small thing.  He also has one of if not the best offensive minds in the NFL calling plays and running the show. 

 

Mahomes can be confident that in the off season the Chiefs will get him more weapons. Just like they rebuilt his O line after the loss to TB in the SB.  Don't underestimate the importance to a QB's mental health when he has confidence that the franchise will do right by the offense.  Mahomes has it and conversely why would anyone think Allen has it given the reality of how the Bills have structured and built their Offense?

 

 

 

I don't think this is talked about enough.  People wanted Dorsey fired.  They want McD fired.  But what about Beane?  He's not blameless.  When you spend a quarter of a billion dollars on a QB, you'd think getting him a bodyguard would be a priority.  The Bills' woeful story this year has more than one author.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by hondo in seattle

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

Who does Mahomes have outside of Kelce that’s better than Davis? I agree Burrow has crazy weapons. 

 

It doesn't matter. Mahomes has Andy Reid.

[Peter]

As some of you know, I have defended Ken Dorsey . . . and for good reason.

 

Dorsey Did Not Deserve to Get Fired

 

Yes, I know. I am a salmon swimming upstream with many of you guys and the whingers on WGR.

 

McCoach decided to throw Dorsey to the lions to deflect from his own issues (as has been his habit since arriving).

 

I have a feeling McCoach is going to be eaten by the same lions. What goes around, comes around.

[Seventeen]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

“But other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?” 

 

 

I’d argue that some of the questionable decisions are not always clearly reflected in the stats, but they still leave an impression. 

 

.

 

Your argument is valid but Josh was not on the field for the punt return against the Jets, Mac Jones turning into Johnny Unitas, or last night's debacle with the Taron PI call and 12 men on the field. 

 

At a minimum, the Bills should be 7-3, maybe 8-2 despite Josh's turnovers.

[akcash]

I’m watching week 1 ‘20-‘21 Raiders vs Panthers. Lot of under center, motion, empty, jet sweep motion, screens, play action, deep ball to McCaffrey split out wide. I literally have only watched a quarter and a half and I saw all of this. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by akcash

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, 34-30 said:

DC's are smart. Very smart. They watch the film. They take away what you want to do and force you to adjust and do something different. Its up to the offense..up to the QB...to make the adjustment and take what is left to them. Do that well and it forces the defense to do something else..opening up what you did originally..what you want to do.

 

Defenses know that Allen will throw it to them.  No need to readjust.  They know he'll beat them at times..a few plays here, a few plays there. But until he stops giving it away, they'll swallow their medicine on a few drives.  

 

Guys..his game isn't growing. If he has to be "freed" and allowed to do what he wants, thats not growth. Because teams aren't going to let that happen.  You can harp on coaching all you want...and yes, coaches had issues..but Allen needs to grow his game. He needs to stop pouting and looking lost and moping through a press conference and the turnovers have to stop. 

 

I don't think they will.  This is who he is. He's not a savior. He's a highly talented kid with major flaws. And teams are exploiting those flaws.

 

Anyone else find it odd that this dude just made this account 19 hours ago after Dorsey got fired and has pretty much just ragged on how Josh is the problem since making that account?

[Best Williams Available]

4 minutes ago, Peter said:

As some of you know, I have defended Ken Dorsey . . . and for good reason.

 

Dorsey Did Not Deserve to Get Fired

 

Yes, I know. I am a salmon swimming upstream with many of you guys and the whingers on WGR.

 

McCoach decided to throw Dorsey to the lions to deflect from his own issues (as has been his habit since arriving).

 

I have a feeling McCoach is going to be eaten by the same lions. What goes around, comes around.

Certainly no one left to blame if the ship isn’t righted. But I worry he can argue 1 more year since no DC and fired OC half way through. “I’ll staff those positions well, gimme 1 more year Terry.”

Edited November 15, 2023 by Best Williams Available

[Bob Jones]

3 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

Exactly.  After yesterday’s game, I would’ve more expected Sean or the special teams coach get fired.  What did Dorsey do wrong yesterday?   Scored the last TD too quickly?   With Josh again in turnover mode, he called runs for every play of a touchdown drive!

Even if Josh would have gone down at the one, like some are saying, that would be gambling big. The TD run was on 2nd and goal, if he went down at the 1 instead of getting the TD, the clock was at about 1:55, so they could have run it down to 1:15 for 3rd and goal, and that's if Denver doesn’t stop it before then, as they still had 2 TOs. Even if Denver had zero TOs, running it in was the right call. You only do that delay if the score is tied, so you won't lose if all of a sudden you can't punch it in.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Seventeen said:

 

Your argument is valid but Josh was not on the field for the punt return against the Jets, Mac Jones turning into Johnny Unitas, or last night's debacle with the Taron PI call and 12 men on the field. 

 

At a minimum, the Bills should be 7-3, maybe 8-2 despite Josh's turnovers.

 

Now we are changing the subject I was referring to. 

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

What what?  You think it's a coincidence that McD appointed a first time ever OC from within, with no experience or success in the league?  He wants to be able to control.  

 

We're replacing one stooge with another; not much gonna change.

 

 

Both Brady and Dorsey are Carolina alumni, both were fired in Carolina, both elevated internally in Buffalo (with Brady acting). To me that's got McD's hands all over it and confirms that the time before his inevitable departure will be wasted. Only question now is how long imo.

[Behindenemylines]

4 minutes ago, Peter said:

As some of you know, I have defended Ken Dorsey . . . and for good reason.

 

Dorsey Did Not Deserve to Get Fired

 

Yes, I know. I am a salmon swimming upstream with many of you guys and the whingers on WGR.

 

McCoach decided to throw Dorsey to the lions to deflect from his own issues (as has been his habit since arriving).

 

I have a feeling McCoach is going to be eaten by the same lions. What goes around, comes around.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong 

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

This is it to me in a nutshell. It's not that Dorey had an awful playbook or didn't call a lot of plays that should've worked, but which Allen (and/or others) did not execute properly. It's that it's DORSEY'S JOB to coach Allen to see those things. It's DORSEY'S JOB to have the players prepared and executing well.

For whatever complaints anyone has about his actual playcalling -- and I have many gripes, from poor understanding of game flow and logical play sequencing to misuse of personnel to abandoning what's working -- it's his actual COACHING of the players, the preparation and execution, that was his major weakness and his downfall.

I defended Dorsey for a long time. But one can only witness so many consecutive weeks of unprepared/sloppy play, missed assignments, two receivers winding up in the same spot on the field, and lack of rhythm before saying "enough is enough". Analytics and EPA and DVOA be damned. Anyone with a set of eyeballs could see it just wasn't working for Dorsey. He failed in too many areas to think things were going to significantly improve. And worst of all, the MOST IMPORTANT PLAYER on the team is regressing and looking lost and reckless and depressed.

This move needed to happen.

 

 

Thanks, Logic, for what I consider to be the best post of this thread.  After the first handful of games last season Dorsey has been

figured out by DCs and in the last few weeks it's been absurdly bad.  I've seen zero effort in specific game scheming against some

average defenses.  I have used the analogy this year of his play calling as "throwing darts".

 

None of us have been privy to what McDermott has been talking to Dorsey about this season and if in the future it causes his dismissal,

so be it.  But nothing can change my mind that Dorsey HAD to be fired.

 

I will say that Josh needs a steady hand at the tiller in an OC and Dorsey seemed to be the exact opposite of that.  McDermott needs to

look for that guy in the offseason as a number 1 priority.  If he doesn't, I will not be happy.

 

The season isn't over, and the Jets game will be more than interesting.  I will be specifically looking at Josh Allen's demeanor in that game.

My personal speculation is that Allen wanted Dorsey and it did not work out!  He now is miserable about it, and it shows.

It's the simplest answer to the Occom's Razor question.

[BillMafia716ix]

6 minutes ago, Peter said:

As some of you know, I have defended Ken Dorsey . . . and for good reason.

 

Dorsey Did Not Deserve to Get Fired

 

Yes, I know. I am a salmon swimming upstream with many of you guys and the whingers on WGR.

 

McCoach decided to throw Dorsey to the lions to deflect from his own issues (as has been his habit since arriving).

 

I have a feeling McCoach is going to be eaten by the same lions. What goes around, comes around.

They not going to fire him. He’s had 4 straight double digit win seasons. 3 division titles in 4 years. Too much success to just throw down the drain because of one bad season. He’s definitely going to get his opportunity to right the ship. Getting rid of Dorsey was the right move. Now Joe Brady will have 7 games to audition for the job. If they find success…he’ll keep the job. If not, they will hire an experienced OC. 

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Seen or heard any reports of him still working with Palmer? I haven't.

 

 

You can end your tirade of Josh not working in the off season now.  Just because it wasn't some major headline doesn't mean he didn't put the work in.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/one-bills-live-jordan-palmer-on-working-with-josh-and-kyle-allen

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't think is talked about enough.  People wanted Dorsey fired.  They want McD fired.  But what about Beane?  He's not blameless.  When you spend a quarter of a billion dollars on a QB, you'd think getting him a bodyguard would be a priority.  The Bills' woeful story this year has more than one author.

 

Beane is a big problem, be we can't say that about st. Beane.