Shakir needs to be given some of Gabe’s snaps…prove me wrong

[Nuncha]

Has this coaching staff EVER benched anyone for underperforming?  It's beyond time to send a message.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Nuncha

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, Buffalo68 said:

By pointing out one change that should be contemplated? 

Because it doesn't matter in the end. Shakir or Davis makes no difference.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Nuncha said:

Has this coaching staff EVER benched anyone for underperforming?  It's beyond time to send a message.

 

Dorian williams at halftime of... this game? 

[balln]

8 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I think the issue is run blocking.  This staff is in love with Gabe.  Not sure how effective Shakir is at run blocking 

I see gabe  motion inside - and I’m think here comes a run. And then he usually always loses vs a Lb and DE. So. Yea. Don’t run that play. Let’s see other wr on outside. Run harty on clearing routes from outside. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I'd also like to see a bit more of harty than we're seeing.

 

Davis at 96% of snaps completely limits what you can do with your other players since its a split between kincaid, knox, sherfield, harty, shakir.  Just too many people moving in and out of the lineup to make any level of consistent impact.  

[Virgil]

How quickly we forget Shakir's drop issues

[That's No Moon]

5 minutes ago, Virgil said:

How quickly we forget Shakir's drop issues

Desperation has that effect

[BillsFan2313]

Agreed. He can run a route

[Royale with Cheese]

Shakir is sneaky quick in his routes.  He does have a case of the drops as well but at least he can give you more in route running.

[juno999]

Need to do something different on offense.  Run 11 personnel more and see if they can get production from another receiver besides Diggs.

Edited October 23, 2023 by juno999

[Nuncha]

41 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Dorian williams at halftime of... this game? 

LOL that has been an ongoing thing since Milano went down.  Trying to figure out who is better at the position doesn't count as a "benching".  Williams will probably start Thursday.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Nuncha

[Chandler#81]

38 minutes ago, Virgil said:

How quickly we forget Shakir's drop issues

No one has forgotten. But he’s improved dramatically. Davis simply sucks.

[Ramza86]

I think Shakir did his job yesterday....but to be fair he didnt look great prior to this.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Davis is the same he always has been.  Occasional impact game, then many games of poor showings.  He has a limited route tree, unreliable hands, and can’t get separation anywhere that doesn’t require him running mostly in straight lines.  
 

Shakir has been making plays every time he is called upon this year, and with the dominant number of snaps being given to Davis at WR while also running 12 personnel so often, it had severely limited the targets and snaps for guys like Shakir.

 

Davis is getting too many reps to be producing this little.  Time to get other guys involved who are better route runners and more reliable hands, and that starts with Shakir at WR and Kincaid at TE.

 

 

As Josh says, there are a bunch of OC's in the stands, and I'm sure Cover 1 and Joe Marino will rush in to defend Gabe's honor in the All-22 - he was open, that's a tough defense, Josh just didn't look his way, his wasn't the primary read. Blah, blah, blah. 

 

He MUST be on the field because he blocks well - in fact - Sal C just repeated this AGAIN on WGR right now. Our GM just gushes over how hard Gabe works. 

 

But yes, said this after the Jets game, skill position is average, and why Gabe can't be rotated for at all? 

 

Anyone signing up for 4-5 more years of Gabe Davis as your #2? 

 

What would happen if you took Gabe off the field and just put Harty in his place? Or run 11 with Diggs - Harty - Shakir - Kincaid? 

 

I don't know that it solves finishing on 1st half drives, but 4 catches - 27 yards the last two weeks for Gabe. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[dgrochester55]

It is clear that Gabe Davis is not a #2 and is better suited as a #3 or #4 deep option, but no one on the team right now is good enough to replace him.   What has Shakir done outside of preseason that made you saw "wow, he is going to be a starter for years"?   It's the same trap that we fell into during the drought era, if someone does anything in a position with no production we overrate that and imagine them as better than they end up being.

 

There is a difference between better than other bad players and good.   Even marginal players like Deonte Thompson and David Nelson can have 40-60 catches a season if in a scheme with no one to throw to.  If someone wants to argue that Shakir should get reps over Sherfield and Harty, I am 100% on board.  As a steady #2 receiver or over Davis, I am not there yet.  

 

I would rather have Buffalo trade for a veteran receiver if they want to try and be a serious playoff contender.  I would even take back Beasley Or Brown as they are today at this point over Davis, Harty and Sherfield.

 

Of course if Buffalo does fall out of contention, then things change and I agree with Seeing what Shakir and Shorter can do so that we can see if they add value to the team long term.

Edited October 23, 2023 by dgrochester55

[DuckyBoys]

wont matter , neither are the answer  Get some high end talent to go with your stud qb  Beane  Quit effing around and get real nfl weapons

[colin]

we are running stuff that doesnt' work, we are running stuff that does work, and we are running some real goof stuff that needs to get gone.

 

we still can score on anyone, allen is still allen.  im for whatever change up will loosen things up.

 

one thing, we nee allen, cook, diggs, and dalton w the ball in their hands making plays more, not less.  bringing in murray to run picks and knox to drop targets just isn't working.  allen isnt' running at all now.  that's a serious weapon we haven't taken the safety off of yet.

 

i do think if we can get better prepared pre snap sooner (we figure it out, but late in the game), and just design stuff to hit those 3 weapons and allen, we can be monsters again.

 

on d, we need mcd to earn his paycheck

 

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

hard to drop passes on a 4 yard route

Knox manages.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On third and Long Shakir  runs an eight or 10 yard route well short of the sticks, and Allen throws it beyond the sticks for an incomplete pass. Don’t know who is wrong there, but I have to think the idea is to run a route beyond the sticks and pick up the first down.

 

there seem to be a perfect hole where Allen threw the ball.

[Best Williams Available]

10 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I think the issue is run blocking.  This staff is in love with Gabe.  Not sure how effective Shakir is at run blocking 

Blocking is the most teachable skill for a WR. Route running and catching, not so much.

[Fallser]

I’m ready to move him up to WR2. At least he ***** catches the ball when it’s thrown in his direction.

[Best Williams Available]

2 hours ago, Nuncha said:

Has this coaching staff EVER benched anyone for underperforming?  It's beyond time to send a message.

Williams yesterday and v Giants. But that’s McD doing that. I don’t think he understands O enough to bench a guy unless they fumble. Pee Wee football type crap.

[Mister Defense]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Davis is the same he always has been.  Occasional impact game, then many games of poor showings.  He has a limited route tree, unreliable hands, and can’t get separation anywhere that doesn’t require him running mostly in straight lines.  
 

Shakir has been making plays every time he is called upon this year, and with the dominant number of snaps being given to Davis at WR while also running 12 personnel so often, it had severely limited the targets and snaps for guys like Shakir.

 

Davis is getting too many reps to be producing this little.  Time to get other guys involved who are better route runners and more reliable hands, and that starts with Shakir at WR and Kincaid at TE.

 

 

 

Yup, but just because that is so obvious, so clear, it won't seem to matter to Dorsey. 

 

We don't know HOW good Shakir can become, and that is true for so many offensive players right now.  We are approaching the middle of the season, and this has been one of the fundamental problems--we don't even know what we have on this offense because of how lacking it has been in its use of its players.

 

Dorsey was forced to get more players more involved yesterday and as the game progressed we saw the possibilities of that.  I think we may see the same next week because Dorsey is clearly now fighting for his job, despite the generic and expected vocal support of the players and leadership.

 

Shakir could very well be the Beasley type player that helped to make the offense great, but...

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

31 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Knox manages.

true but he’s getting paid a lot more money so it all works out

[Mister Defense]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Exactly…This is my point, he isn’t doing enough to dominate the snap count like he has, especially since Dorsey is obsessed with the 12 personnel which further limits the other receivers usage

 

 He looks slow and doesn't separate well, overall--not looking like a #2 receiver. The Bills need a faster receiver with great hands--and not next year, but now.

 

They should see what they have on their team/practice squad of course, but also should be extremely serious and detailed in their search across the NFL before the trade deadline. If the Bills just stand pat that will be very discouraging.

 

[Rc2catch]

It’s long overdue for Davis to take some snaps off and to get some of the other guys more involved. 
I’d like to see Isabella and Harty involved in the offense a little. Defenses have to respect their straight line speed. Nobody is scared of Gabe Davis deep 1 on 1. 
He’s a solid player but he’s completely unreliable to get open or even catch the ball when he’s open. Sometimes less is more

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Bills need to figure out who’s who on offense. I think Josh is having trouble trusting the slot WRs because they use so many different guys.

 

 I’m waiting for the Bills to go with straight 11 personnel like the old days with Diggs, Davis, Shakir, and Kincaid. Use Knox as an extra TE in certain situations.

[klos63]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Davis is the same he always has been.  Occasional impact game, then many games of poor showings.  He has a limited route tree, unreliable hands, and can’t get separation anywhere that doesn’t require him running mostly in straight lines.  
 

Shakir has been making plays every time he is called upon this year, and with the dominant number of snaps being given to Davis at WR while also running 12 personnel so often, it had severely limited the targets and snaps for guys like Shakir.

 

Davis is getting too many reps to be producing this little.  Time to get other guys involved who are better route runners and more reliable hands, and that starts with Shakir at WR and Kincaid at TE.

 

 

Didn't that happen yesterday? 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Nuncha said:

LOL that has been an ongoing thing since Milano went down.  Trying to figure out who is better at the position doesn't count as a "benching".  Williams will probably start Thursday.

 

Playing 20 something snaps, and then 0 more after that... is a benching.  

[Nuncha]

4 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Playing 20 something snaps, and then 0 more after that... is a benching.  

Not if he starts this week.

Just now, Nuncha said:

Not if he starts this week.  McD too afraid to hurt his players "confidence".

 

[MJS]

Hopefully they shake some things up. Unfortunately, we seem to have an offense full of high variance players. Outside of Diggs, but even he has a bad drop here and there.

 

Knox is having just a putrid year. Bench him. Make him prove that he deserves to be out there.

 

Maybe rotate Sherfield in for Davis more and see what he can do. Shakir too.

 

Dorsey needs to get more tricky, fun plays into the offense. Something to scheme up when things aren't working.

[Mister Defense]

18 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

 

...Maybe rotate Sherfield in for Davis more and see what he can do. Shakir too...

 

 

 

Seeing the tape on Sherfield, watching him  and hearing others' take on him in the preseason had me believing he would become the #2 receiver for the Bills this year, as he seemed like a much more dynamic receiver, one with a great deal of potential.

 

At the very least I had confidence he would get substantial targets and more yards than he had last year in Miami.

 

His stats this year--8 targets, 6 catches, and 44 yards.   (Season projection?  16 catches, 109 yards.)

 

(Shakir's stats? 8 catches for 75 yards and 182 for the season.)

 

Shocking to me.

 

We don't even know what we have on this offense, the potential, with such horrendous and negligent use of the players available.

 

 

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Didn't that happen yesterday? 

Yes, and that was one of the more positive takeaways from yesterday.  Kincaid is so sure handed, he needs to be involved as much as possible.  He can be the 2020 Beasley if given the chance.  And Shakir and Harty need touches.  Defenses aren't allowing us to go over the top, so we need to get the ball into the hands of players that can make something happen after the catch.  Gabe ain't it.

Edited October 23, 2023 by TheBrownBear

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

hard to drop passes on a 4 yard route

 
Not for Knox 

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

How quickly we forget Shakir's drop issues

What drop issues though?  You’re talking about camp.  Mahomes had an interception issue all through camp before coming out the gate and winning MVP.  Camp is camp, means nothing.  

 

He has none this year and made plays every time he was called upon.  And we are talking about Gabe who has a real drops issue

[Virgil]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 
Not for Knox 

What drop issues though?  You’re talking about camp.  Mahomes had an interception issue all through camp before coming out the gate and winning MVP.  Camp is camp, means nothing.  

 

He has none this year and made plays every time he was called upon.  And we are talking about Gabe who has a real drops issue

 

Please don't make me look it up.  He def had a drop this season and got called out for it here.  Granted, Davis also has drops, so neither are perfect.  

 

Honestly, I want to see Sherfield on the outside and let Davis/Shakir, and Harty fight it out in the slot

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

On third and Long Shakir  runs an eight or 10 yard route well short of the sticks, and Allen throws it beyond the sticks for an incomplete pass. Don’t know who is wrong there, but I have to think the idea is to run a route beyond the sticks and pick up the first down.

 

there seem to be a perfect hole where Allen threw the ball.

 

Yeah I get the sense that Shakir isn't exactly a bright football player, and that more than anything is probably keeping him in a limited role. He does a poor job of reading the defense/leverage on the fly and adjusting his route accordingly. Doesn't make himself a friendly target to the QB when running through zones. He is also a physically limited player. So he is cerebrally and physically limited. I don't know why anyone thinks elevating that caliber of player to a bigger role is going to be the solution to our passing woes.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I get the sense that Shakir isn't exactly a bright football player, and that more than anything is probably keeping him in a limited role. He does a poor job of reading the defense/leverage on the fly and adjusting his route accordingly. Doesn't make himself a friendly target to the QB when running through zones. He is also a physically limited player. So he is cerebrally and physically limited. I don't know why anyone thinks elevating that caliber of player to a bigger role is going to be the solution to our passing woes.

 

Cuz he can get open quicker than davis against man coverage.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

Scrap 12 for 11. And play Kincaid 90% of those snaps in 11 or more. Knox is a blocker and RZ only target. He’s just not good between the 20s. 

Much better answer 

[BillsShredder83]

11 hours ago, bouds said:

https://x.com/Cover1/status/1716176555326537766?s=20

 

Great throw by Josh but Shakir knows hes not getting the ball from the jump, lol, and it's 1st down.

I know it looks like he's jogging but any chance he's keeping that safety lower just by being there? If he's in a dead sprint that safety Is closer up on Diggs?

 

Even if that's the case poor route designs. He shouldn't be on a streak, would be more effective to run a comeback or something shorter

[Alphadawg7]

52 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

Please don't make me look it up.  He def had a drop this season and got called out for it here.  Granted, Davis also has drops, so neither are perfect.  

 

Honestly, I want to see Sherfield on the outside and let Davis/Shakir, and Harty fight it out in the slot

 

He has 8 catches on 9 targets and I don't see him credited with a drop.  

 

Davis dropped 2 3rd down conversions in the same game this year.  

 

So I don't see how Shakir can be labeled someone who drops passes when he has had so little opportunity to show one way or the other.  People made a big deal about a very difficult catch he dropped in the playoff game, but he didn't even drop it, he just wasn't able to keep it from moving when he laid out for it and hit the ground.  Diggs drop on the 2nd to last play for example against NE was way worse.  

 

You'e awesome Virgil, and no offense, but this notion that Shakir has bad hands or drops passes is just not fair to him.  He had 2 drops last year, one of which was a very difficult catch that guys like Diggs drop too.  Davis is a proven drop machine and Knox goes through phases where he can make some crazy difficult catches then drop important less difficult ones.

 

Its time to let other guys see if they can improve this offense because Davis getting 96% of the snaps and putting up 1 catch all the time is not getting it done.