Simms: Gabe Davis is a good player, but he's not a number two

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

He's speaking more in terms of usage I think

 

Dolphins ground game is prolific and Niners have McCaffrey and Kittle to feed, Davis probably wouldn't get target share to justify a deal either place

I do understand that part of it. He certainly wouldn’t get nearly as many targets on those teams 

[Niagara Dude]

On 10/18/2023 at 9:03 PM, Buffalo Ballin said:

Too bad that "Playoff Gabe Davis" doesn't show up during the regular season.

 

Reminds me of former Laker and Spur Robert Horry and Giants QB Eli Manning. They're inconsistent and low key during the regular season, but when playoff time comes, it's beast mode on.

Right,  Gabe plays one great game against a bad KC secondary who were more concerned with Diggs and everything is forgiven.  The Bills need to Mak a deal for a upgrade or they will not go far this season

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Do you honestly think he wouldn’t make those rosters, or are you speaking fanatically? Miami had Hill and Waddle and nobody else, 49ers have Samuel and Aiyuk and nobody else

 

 

I'm speaking to the fact that those offenses rely on quick hitting throws to players who can get open quick and create yards after the catch...........and Gabe can't do those things.  Also his hands are hard and he REALLY struggles to make contested catches so he's not a guy you want running those crossers and slants even if he was quicker and a better route runner.    He's very limited.  He's a system fit as a 3rd option with a QB like Josh Allen who can buy time and make ridiculous deep and out throws but he'd be useless for guys like Tua and Purdy.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I'm speaking to the fact that those offenses rely on quick hitting throws to players who can get open quick and create yards after the catch...........and Gabe can't do those things.  Also his hands are hard and he REALLY struggles to make contested catches so he's not a guy you want running those crossers and slants even if he was quicker and a better route runner.    He's very limited.  He's a system fit as a 3rd option with a QB like Josh Allen who can buy time and make ridiculous deep and out throws but he'd be useless for guys like Tua and Purdy.

 

Gabe would be useful for those teams in two roles only - blocking WR which Bills use instead of "touchdown jesus" and bunch plays where Gabe could enable another player to get freed when teams decide to "lets be physical" to WRs like Bills did against last Mijami game.

[Beast]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Eh.  From his rookie year, Gabe Davis was on the field 2nd most to Diggs and more than Beasley. But no way was Gabe Davis the #2 WR in 2020.  Beasley was the #2 in targets, receptions, and yards, and it wasn't close.  Gabe was out there to block downfield, and it wasn't close.

 

In 2021, Manny Sands had 2nd most snaps to Diggs and slightly edged Beasley out in yards per game (though Beasley had more targets and more receptions per game)

 

I don't think it's anything like so simple as "whoever is on the field more is the #2"

And that shows Davis’s ineffectiveness. Davis, at times, plays like a #2. However he is way too inconsistent.

 

My point still stands. Your #2 wr should be on the field more than your #3 wr. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Beast

[SoonerBillsFan]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:55 PM, BBFL said:

Well this’ll make all the armchair GMs puff their chest. 
 

Half the board’s been saying this 😂

And saying for a couple years now.  Beane needs to admit this was a failure in thinking he was a #2 and make a move at the trade deadline.

[BillMafia716ix]

I don’t understand what y’all expect a #2 WR to be. He’s on pace for about 70rec and 900 yards and 8-10TDs. I think that’s decent. Especially when Diggs is getting 10+ targets a game. 
 

Jaylen Waddle is currently under his pace. So I guess Waddle isnt a #2 WR either. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by BillMafia716ix

[Low Positive]

I just watched the video. Based on the posts in this thread, I don’t think very many people here watched. The Gabe Davis point was a minor part of a broader argument that the Bills are too reliant on Josh Allen magic. Nothing’s easy.  It’s been his narrative for a while, so I think that he sees what he wants to see. He really latches on to the degree of difficulty of the TD pass to Morris, but ignores that the first TD drive was almost all running plays. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Loaded 2020 WR Draft Class sorted by TDs:

 

Justin Jefferson	28
Gabe Davis	24
CeeDee Lamb	21
Tee Higgins	21
Brandon Aiyuk	20
KJ Obsorn	14
Chase Claypool	13
Michael Pittman Jr	12
Darnell Mooney	11
Van Jefferson	10
Jerry Juedy	9

 

Pretty good for a suspect #2 WR

[SydneyBillsFan]

Okay, so we had another low-impact performance from Gabe.

 

In fact, I would now begin to question whether he is even a number 3 on this offence. 

 

I would also question whether you even make a lowball offer. 

 

Is there anyone out there who thinks he improves dramatically with a better OC? Because that is the only scenario I can see where he is a Bill next season.

[Rocbillsfan1]

On 10/22/2023 at 5:13 AM, BillMafia716ix said:

I don’t understand what y’all expect a #2 WR to be. He’s on pace for about 70rec and 900 yards and 8-10TDs. I think that’s decent. Especially when Diggs is getting 10+ targets a game. 
 

Jaylen Waddle is currently under his pace. So I guess Waddle isnt a #2 WR either. 

How’s that pace going? 

[strive_for_five_guy]

13 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

Okay, so we had another low-impact performance from Gabe.

 

In fact, I would now begin to question whether he is even a number 3 on this offence. 

 

I would also question whether you even make a lowball offer. 

 

Is there anyone out there who thinks he improves dramatically with a better OC? Because that is the only scenario I can see where he is a Bill next season.

Was Davis injured on the last TD drive?  It looked like Sherfield was out on the field, and I was pretty sure it was in place of Davis.  Or is it possible Sherfield’s going to start taking snaps from Davis?

[LABILLBACKER]

Right now Gabe is simply Tremaine Edmunds who we'll soon be saying goodbye to.  Josh hasn't had a legit wr2 since he came to Buffalo. 

[Solomon Grundy]

On 10/22/2023 at 8:13 AM, BillMafia716ix said:

I don’t understand what y’all expect a #2 WR to be. He’s on pace for about 70rec and 900 yards and 8-10TDs. I think that’s decent. Especially when Diggs is getting 10+ targets a game. 
 

Jaylen Waddle is currently under his pace. So I guess Waddle isnt a #2 WR either. 

To be effective when teams take away option #1. To, at a minimum, have a catch in a game. 

7 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Right now Gabe is simply Tremaine Edmunds who we'll soon be saying goodbye to.  Josh hasn't had a legit wr2 since he came to Buffalo. 

Smoke Brown? 

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Was Davis injured on the last TD drive?  It looked like Sherfield was out on the field, and I was pretty sure it was in place of Davis.  Or is it possible Sherfield’s going to start taking snaps from Davis?

It's possible.  It's also becoming an issue that Allen and Davis aren't on the same page. The "intentional grounding" call is an example. There have been a few plays this year that Davis hasn't gone where Allen expected him to on the option routes. He's not seeing the play the same as Allen and makes him a risk.

[Solomon Grundy]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:52 AM, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

Loaded 2020 WR Draft Class sorted by TDs:

 

Justin Jefferson	28
Gabe Davis	24
CeeDee Lamb	21
Tee Higgins	21
Brandon Aiyuk	20
KJ Obsorn	14
Chase Claypool	13
Michael Pittman Jr	12
Darnell Mooney	11
Van Jefferson	10
Jerry Juedy	9

 

Pretty good for a suspect #2 WR

Regardless of the TD stats, I'd still take Aiyuk, Lamb, Higgins, Jeudy over Davis. I might even consider Osborn. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

It's possible.  It's also becoming an issue that Allen and Davis aren't on the same page. The "intentional grounding" call is an example. There have been a few plays this year that Davis hasn't gone where Allen expected him to on the option routes. He's not seeing the play the same as Allen and makes him a risk.

The interception thrown by Josh had me wondering if Davis could've tried to work his way to the ball by getting inside of the CB. Or at the very minimum taking a pass interference call. I'd rather the penalty than the change of possession. 🤷

[Since1981]

Josh has said Gabe “the smartest guy on the field”. I’m smart too but doesn’t make me I’m a multi million W2. 
 

this team and Josh need a legit speed option to balance Diggs, stretch D. JBrown was that man. Gabe was a beneficiary. Not anymore. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Since1981

[RunTheBall]

28 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

The interception thrown by Josh had me wondering if Davis could've tried to work his way to the ball by getting inside of the CB. Or at the very minimum taking a pass interference call. I'd rather the penalty than the change of possession. 🤷

As much as Gabe sucks, that pick was 100% on Josh. Horrible throw, even worse decision to throw it in the first place. He locked on that match up pre snap and never glanced at a wide open Cook and open Kincaid on the other side.  
 

Josh's ability to read the field and decision making have both regressed this year. Why that is, idk. He's capable of elite play. 

[Since1981]

3 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

both regressed this year.

What is the dude telling him in his helmet speaker and/or is he no longer hearing the input. 
 

(ever have a boss that doesn’t know what’s going on? Or alternatively a boss that you don’t respect)

Edited November 7, 2023 by Since1981

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

As much as Gabe sucks, that pick was 100% on Josh. Horrible throw, even worse decision to throw it in the first place. He locked on that match up pre snap and never glanced at a wide open Cook and open Kincaid on the other side.  
 

Josh's ability to read the field and decision making have both regressed this year. Why that is, idk. He's capable of elite play. 

 

If that play were any other WR then everyone would be saying that it was Allen's fault, particularly if it was Diggs.  

 

For less than $1M/season, I simply don't understand the hatred for Davis.  Great, so he's not worth what he'll get maybe, but that's the offseason, not now.  

 

He was targeted twice, once that play, and once more with that facemask in the endzone, which was also not a particularly well-thrown ball.  No other targets, but it's Davis' fault.  

 

BTW, and FWIW, Simms isn't one of the brighter people covering football, and as a QB he sucked.  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

What is the dude telling him in his helmet speaker and/or is he no longer hearing the input. 

 

As you implied, could be a positive thing.  

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Bills haven't drafted a WR earlier than Round 4 since 2017. 

 

It took them a year and a half to realize Khalil Shakir (the guy who ran a 4.43 and had 1,100 yards at Boise) should be on the field. 

 

 

I have no sympathy for them. Unless they start dialing back Gabe's snaps they get what they deserve. 

 

The answer we'll all get is "blocking" and "nobody outworks Gabe" - but it's not working anyways, they're scoring 20 points per game after the Miami game. 

 

 

Deonte Harty has been inexplicably benched by this team - and like we saw with Hines, Dorsey has no idea what to do him as a player. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Time to give Isabella a chance I know he’s not the blocker that Gabe is but he is a separator and has good run after catch abilities. He also has true 4.3 speed something the Bills lack of the field is a burner! 

[nedboy7]

Oh he’s a #2 alright.  

[BananaB]

29 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Bills haven't drafted a WR earlier than Round 4 since 2017. 

 

It took them a year and a half to realize Khalil Shakir (the guy who ran a 4.43 and had 1,100 yards at Boise) should be on the field. 

 

 

I have no sympathy for them. Unless they start dialing back Gabe's snaps they get what they deserve. 

 

The answer we'll all get is "blocking" and "nobody outworks Gabe" - but it's not working anyways, they're scoring 20 points per game after the Miami game. 

 

 

Deonte Harty has been inexplicably benched by this team - and like we saw with Hines, Dorsey has no idea what to do him as a player. 

We have players right now that physically can’t get the job done. The ones that been here for a period time do not get sat despite their struggles. It’s just how it is

 

Seniority rules

Edited November 7, 2023 by BananaB

[dorquemada]

Davis has certainly been a disappointment but it's hard to figure out if he just sucks or our amateur hour Offensive philosophy is making a #2 WR an afterthought.  Given our penchant of 3 and out against good teams, we'll never know

[Straight Hucklebuck]

25 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Time to give Isabella a chance I know he’s not the blocker that Gabe is but he is a separator and has good run after catch abilities. He also has true 4.3 speed something the Bills lack of the field is a burner! 

NastyNateSoldiers - the Bills play a rotation at other places on the roster, I don't understand why they can't start cutting Gabe's snaps back. 

 

He was out there 93% of snaps on Sunday, and finally it looked like, got benched for Sherfield. 

 

So it can be done. 

 

Sherfield in, then Gabe in, throw Isabella in there, then Harty, back to Gabe. 

 

And at least with those other players - there might be a little speed as you have indicated. 

 

Gabe hasn't improved his speed at all in 4 years. 

 

He doesn't need to be in there 95% of the time. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

28 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Time to give Isabella a chance I know he’s not the blocker that Gabe is but he is a separator and has good run after catch abilities. He also has true 4.3 speed something the Bills lack of the field is a burner! 

Isabella should be getting every ball not going Diggs or Kincaids way.

[Chugga]

I’m weird about Gabe Davis.  His rookie year I remember thinking he absolutely needed to be on the field at all times.  I can even remember the sheer number of toe tapping sideline passes he caught that year.  It seemed like every time Josh rolled out Gabe was going to be 2 inches away from the sideline ready to make a play.  Then the KC game happened and I figured Super Bowl or bust with our two elite WRs.  But dude just isn’t the same.

 

My biggest fear is we sign him to an extension based off of potential.  This regime has signed guys that they just “like” and it can put us in cap hell.  Star’s contract was an instant regret and now we are seeing Knox’s might be as well.

[DuckyBoys]

9 minutes ago, Chugga said:

I’m weird about Gabe Davis.  His rookie year I remember thinking he absolutely needed to be on the field at all times.  I can even remember the sheer number of toe tapping sideline passes he caught that year.  It seemed like every time Josh rolled out Gabe was going to be 2 inches away from the sideline ready to make a play.  Then the KC game happened and I figured Super Bowl or bust with our two elite WRs.  But dude just isn’t the same.

 

My biggest fear is we sign him to an extension based off of potential.  This regime has signed guys that they just “like” and it can put us in cap hell.  Star’s contract was an instant regret and now we are seeing Knox’s might be as well.

of course they will resign  Got to feed the narrative of building w the draft and retaining your players

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

BTW, and FWIW, Simms isn't one of the brighter people covering football, and as a QB he sucked.  

 

You're correct that Simms was not a good NFL QB, but you realize that with his limited physical skills, there's probably a different reason he stayed in the league 7 years - that reason being his knowledge of football and football smarts?

 

He was also a coaching assistant for the Patriots in 2012.  Peak Belicheck wasn't noted for bringing in dumb football minds.

 

I would say this take shows you aren't one of the brightest people covering football on this board, but I actually think you just like to post bad takes to ***** stir.

[Charles Romes]

Shakir has outplayed him and is now the #2 receiver, #3 target.  So all they need to do is feed Shakir so Gabe’s stats fall off the cliff, making Gabe very affordable if they feel like signing him to a reasonable contract next year. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Charles Romes

[KOKBILLS]

On 10/18/2023 at 8:54 PM, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

 

Honestly... It's kind of an obvious take because Gabe was a very...VERY good #3/4 WR...Shakir is sliding into the Beasley spot... But the Bills are woefully without that Smoke/Sanders-level #2...

 

 

 

 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Regardless of the TD stats, I'd still take Aiyuk, Lamb, Higgins, Jeudy over Davis. I might even consider Osborn. 

 

Agreed on the first 3, no way on Jeudy. Jeudy will be washed out of this league before Davis will.

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

You're correct that Simms was not a good NFL QB, but you realize that with his limited physical skills, there's probably a different reason he stayed in the league 7 years - that reason being his knowledge of football and football smarts?

 

I'm sure he's got his strengths.  But after oh, IDK, however long he's been on PFT, listening to him, he's had quite a few ######ed takes as well.   More than enough to fuel any questions as to his overall intelligence about all things football.  

 

And simply because someone's knowledgeable in one area, hardly makes them an expert such as yourself as implied.  

 

 

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

He was also a coaching assistant for the Patriots in 2012.  Peak Belicheck wasn't noted for bringing in dumb football minds.

 

Right, because coaches like McDaniels, among numerous others, have been so successful on their own.  

 

Funny too, Belichick's been so successful too without Brady.  In fact, he's had no success without Brady.  I think there may be a connection there. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

I would say this take shows you aren't one of the brightest people covering football on this board, but I actually think you just like to post bad takes to ***** stir.

 

Thank you!  

 

Maybe on day I'll be like you.  

 

  

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by PBF81

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

He was also a coaching assistant for the Patriots in 2012.  Peak Belicheck wasn't noted for bringing in dumb football minds.

 

And ROFLMAO, your post was prescient.  

 

From a few days ago ... 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/11/04/sports/josh-mcdaniels-firing-another-bill-belichick-coaching-tree-failure/

Bill Belichick’s Coaching Tree Has Alarming Number of Dead Branches 

 

Maybe you want to read your own post to me and then look in the mirror as if you wrote it to yourself.  

 

Just sayin'.   

 

[Since1981]

8 hours ago, PBF81 said:

For less than $1M/season, I simply don't understand the hatred for Davis

Might be cheap but it is the opportunity cost of him in the #2 position. Fact of the matter is that he is taking the #2 seat and routes. Therefore, someone else is not (e.g., shakir, kincaid, knox, TBD). He's pals with 17. A bigger OC mind/stature would override this friendship aspect.

[jkeerie]

He plays like #2.

[Since1981]

6 hours ago, Beck Water said:

but you realize that with his limited physical skills, there's probably a different reason he stayed in the league 7 years - that reason being his knowledge of football and football smarts?

It's why I would love a Reich/Fitz former QB. They had to make up for their lack of physical with mental.  So much more proven than Dorksey ever has been (fired from Panthers)

Edited November 7, 2023 by Since1981

[Buffalo Junction]

11 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

It's why I would love a Reich/Fitz former QB. They had to make up for their lack of physical with mental.  So much more proven than Dorksey ever has been (fired from Panthers)

Dorsey made it for 6-7 years as a player as well…. Reich is a proven coach, but Fitz definitely hasn’t shown any interest there.