Week 7 Bills @ Patriots - on to Foxborough!

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Maybe we should start a new tradition for Patriots week.

 

Limericks?

 

The Dynasty is dead, the emperor is in trouble,  an Allen age is dawning.. 

 

oknthat was bad but I tried.. lmao

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, zow2 said:

 

Josh can scramble and slide or go out of bounds 25 times in the game.  That's fine with me. Just don't absorb unnecessary contact.   Also, get rid of the ball in the pocket before getting hammered (when possible).

 

I think the problem that the coaching staff has with Josh is that he gets, as Beane says, "lathered up" in the heat of the game, and his competitive nature won't let him slide or go OOB.

If Josh were able to discipline himself run and slide or go OOB more consistently as Mahomes does so that he absorbed less contact, his running wouldn't be as much of an issue.

 

 

 

 

[BuffaninSarasota]

38 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I mean... I prefer 1pm games too but thats just because I hate waiting all day in anticipation haha.

I totally get that

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Maybe we should start a new tradition for Patriots week.

 

Limericks?

 

 

2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

There once was a team from Nantucket

Who all said Josh will just chuck it

So they went with Mac Jones

Who just can't read zones

Now their fans all shout "f*** it!" 

 

 

I hate all you guys.

 

3 years ago when I wanted to do this, to add to the Haku's with the another divisional rival, other than my attempt it was crickets from you guys.

 

Yes, the style of poem I picked was Villanelle which consists of 19 lines lines, in the form of five tercets and a closing quatrain, wherein the tercets follow the rhyme scheme ABA, while the quatrain’s rhyme scheme is ABAA and has the first line repeating in lines 6, 12, and 18 of the poem, while the third line repeats in lines 9, 15, and 19.

 

It would have been fun and merriment for all, but nooooooo, that's too much for all of you guys.  You all want to stick with your "roses are red, violets are blue, those are the Bills' colors and I like them too!" garbage.

 

Fine.

 

I guess the answer to the eternal Martini Ranch (RIP, Bill) question "How Can The Laboring Man Find Time For Self-Culture?" is most assuredly NOT TSW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[Unforgiven]

Pats win 13-11

[TheyCallMeAndy]

7 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

Pats win 13-11

Ah yes, the King of the North and Defender of the East sets out to strike down the evil empire once and for all, to bring peace to the realms.

[fergie's ire]

3 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

 

he DOES fall on the top of his shoulder. It is the Dexter Lawrence hit that he falls onto his shoulder and grabs. Shoulder is tucked and he lands right on the top/outside of it. Are you thinking of a different hit?

 

I'm not speculating on the injury, just that it definitely looks like he falls on the top of his shoulder. 

Ah, can't remember what I was watching but they said Allen was injured and showed a different play.  I think it was the Okereke roughing call?  He falls backward but at an angle to that the impact hits his shoulder blade.  That would NOT be an AC injury play, but what you describe is exactly the kind of play that causes that injury.

[stevewin]

We win if Mac Jones attempts more than 3 passes 

Edited October 17, 2023 by stevewin

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Tickets for this game are super reasonable for a change. That stadium is usually ridiculous…really thinking about making a run

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think the problem that the coaching staff has with Josh is that he gets, as Beane says, "lathered up" in the heat of the game, and his competitive nature won't let him slide or go OOB.

If Josh were able to discipline himself run and slide or go OOB more consistently as Mahomes does so that he absorbed less contact, his running wouldn't be as much of an issue.

 

 

 

 

Josh is still great at taking hits for lack of a better term, he won't usually just get smashed unless he's the one who's doing it. When he gets tackled on the run it's just usually not a big hit on him.

[stevewin]

1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Yes, the style of poem I picked was Villanelle which consists of 19 lines lines, in the form of five tercets and a closing quatrain, wherein the tercets follow the rhyme scheme ABA, while the quatrain’s rhyme scheme is ABAA and has the first line repeating in lines 6, 12, and 18 of the poem, while the third line repeats in lines 9, 15, and 19.

 

 

If I see one more post about quatrain's rhyme scheme...

Edited October 17, 2023 by stevewin

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Diggs’s success against the Pats since becoming a Bill suggests otherwise as he averages 95 yards and a TD against BB. 

Now, BB doesn't have to put a spy on Allen because he's not a great to run. That extra player will be used to double Diggs. You can bank on it. 

 

Diggs is about 40% of the Bills offense. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

7 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think he's right with his answer.  We're trying to become more balanced in our approach which should bode well for poor weather games, as well as just playoff football in general.  It isn't a finished... product - nor is it ever.  

 

 

I think its ridiculous to outright ask if you're going to demote your offensive coordinator when the team has some of these numbers.

 

2nd in NFL in 3rd down conversions.

2nd in NFL in red zone TD%

5th in yards

3rd in points

12th in rushing (with allen contributing at the lowest clip of his career)

 

Factor in Allen having just... a terrible night in NY to start the season, and the offense playing their worst game last week - and we're still up there.  Like what are we doing?  

I think sometimes you have to also look beyond stats. Be honest, were you pleased with the teams performance and flow of the Jets, Jax or Giants game? Did any of these games really line up with the stats? I believe we could have played so much better with a better gameplan and play calls. I also think Josh covers up a lot of issues within the gameplan. Thank goodness the D has been playing well otherwise things could be much worse imo.

[Royale with Cheese]

 

[Slack_in_MA]

I’ll be there Sunday. Are people congregating at the lot at Route 1 Liquors south of the stadium?

[BearNorth]

Should we be concerned with Oliver starting to collect PF's.  Got fined $30K in week 5, and suspect he will collect another fine for the PF on Sunday night.  Pretty soon he gets into Suh or Burfict territory. I've seen on the board, that once you start collecting these, the zebras are extra vigilant.

[Goin Breakdown]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Now, BB doesn't have to put a spy on Allen because he's not a great to run. That extra player will be used to double Diggs. You can bank on it. 

 

Diggs is about 40% of the Bills offense. 

You may be right. 

[Beck Water]

Was Epenesa hurt during Sunday night's game?

 

Snap counts are out (scroll down), and very low for Epenesa (27%)

 

It will be interesting to see tomorrow's injury report

 

Lawson was even lower on the snap counts at 17%.

[Motorin']

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Now, BB doesn't have to put a spy on Allen because he's not a great to run. That extra player will be used to double Diggs. You can bank on it. 

 

Diggs is about 40% of the Bills offense. 

 

Teams can't double Diggs when we're under center and running the ball consistently, because they have to bring a safety down into the box. 

 

Then they leave one safety deep up top with single coverage on Diggs and Davis. 

 

That's why we're killing teams out of play action from under center. Because they can't sit back with 7 or 8 in coverage and double the outside receivers. 

 

So not only do the Bills run the ball much more effectively from under center, they also throw the ball best in the league from under center... And they still have to spy Allen with his run ability on the roll out...

 

The main reason the offense sputtered against the Jags and the first half of the Giants game is bc Dorsey refuse to line up and run the ball consistently form under center. 

 

We don't need 20-25 RB runs. But we need at least 12-15 from under center with an additional 10-15 passes from under center. 

 

And they need to lean on it in the first half of games to attack the opposing defensive line and wear them down. 

[Beck Water]

FWIW, Banged Up Bills analysis of injuries

"stinger" for Cam Lewis
Concussion/neck sprain for Damien Harris
 

He thinks Allen has AC Joint sprain

He points out that Allen's completion percentage dropped when he was recovering from an AC joint sprain on his non-throwing shoulder in 2020.  But, he expects Josh to get pain control and tape/bracing and play through it.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[newcam2012]

13 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Teams can't double Diggs when we're under center and running the ball consistently, because they have to bring a safety down into the box. 

 

Then they leave one safety deep up top with single coverage on Diggs and Davis. 

 

That's why we're killing teams out of play action from under center. Because they can't sit back with 7 or 8 in coverage and double the outside receivers. 

 

So not only do the Bills run the ball much more effectively from under center, they also throw the ball best in the league from under center... And they still have to spy Allen with his run ability on the roll out...

 

The main reason the offense sputtered against the Jags and the first half of the Giants game is bc Dorsey refuse to line up and run the ball consistently form under center. 

 

We don't need 20-25 RB runs. But we need at least 12-15 from under center with an additional 10-15 passes from under center. 

 

And they need to lean on it in the first half of games to attack the opposing defensive line and wear them down. 

The Bills running game is in inconsistent. Dorsey often abandons the run too. 

 

Your premise isn't correct either. Teams don't have to send a safety in the box to stop the run. Often that's a tactic but not a given or an absolute as your state. 

 

You make a lot of assumptions that just aren't facts. Teams can absolutely double Diggs. We've seen it almost every playoff game. Why you think Diggs disappears in the playoffs? Hint, it's not because he sucks. 

 

Who would you make you beat you if you were a D coordinator. The Bills run game or Diggs? 

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills running game is in inconsistent. Dorsey often abandons the run too. 

 

Your premise isn't correct either. Teams don't have to send a safety in the box to stop the run. Often that's a tactic but not a given or an absolute as your state. 

 

You make a lot of assumptions that just aren't facts. Teams can absolutely double Diggs. We've seen it almost every playoff game. Why you think Diggs disappears in the playoffs? Hint, it's not because he sucks. 

 

Who would you make you beat you if you were a D coordinator. The Bills run game or Diggs? 

 

The Bills run game has been inconsistent from under center this year? I think not. 

 

The only games the Bills couldn't run was when they insisted on running from out of shotgun.

 

But it's not just the run game that better under center, it's the pass game too. 

 

That's exactly what the numbers say.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Bills run game has been inconsistent from under center this year? I think not. 

 

The only games the Bills couldn't run was when they insisted on running from out of shotgun.

 

But it's not just the run game that better under center, it's the pass game too. 

 

That's exactly what the numbers say.

Actually the first TD drive against the Giants was almost exclusively created with shotgun draws to Murray.

[newcam2012]

17 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Bills run game has been inconsistent from under center this year? I think not. 

 

The only games the Bills couldn't run was when they insisted on running from out of shotgun.

 

But it's not just the run game that better under center, it's the pass game too. 

 

That's exactly what the numbers say.

You are all over the place. Your premise was teams can't double Diggs because of the Bills run game. That's simply not true. 

[Cash]

43 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

FWIW, Banged Up Bills analysis of injuries

"stinger" for Cam Lewis
Concussion/neck sprain for Damien Harris
 

He thinks Allen has AC Joint sprain

He points out that Allen's completion percentage dropped when he was recovering from an AC joint sprain on his non-throwing shoulder in 2020.  But, he expects Josh to get pain control and tape/bracing and play through it.

Thanks for the summary. I don’t have the time for breakdown videos, so it’s great to get the gist from someone who watched the whole thing. 

[Motorin']

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You are all over the place. Your premise was teams can't double Diggs because of the Bills run game. That's simply not true. 

 

Sure, and when we're in 12, 13, 21 and 22 personnel they could line up in prevent. 

 

But teams will play 8 in the box against heavy looks. 

[Motorin']

37 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Actually the first TD drive against the Giants was almost exclusively created with shotgun draws to Murray.

 

We did have 3 successful Murray runs from shotgun on that drive. 

 

But we ran 7 plays from under center and 10 plays from shotgun. 

 

I'm not remotely suggestion we never line up in shotgun, or even that we line up more under center than from shotgun.

 

Just that the offense will tend to completely sputtered when it never lines up under center. 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Motorin'

[WideNine]

19 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Well, at least it's starting to get a little noisier around Dorsey and his play calling. McD may be saying Zero chance now, but it will be in his mind and get louder if things don't get better quickly. Especially if this weekend turns out to be anything like the last couple of weeks.

 

Some of the play calls have  been head scratchers but we had that with Dabs too. 

 

Most OCs have WTF moments. More concerning to me is how ready the offense is going into the games.

 

How crisp they are executing the plays? How many unforced penalties? How many missed blocks? How many drops or errant throws?

 

When I  see those miscues, I think they are not ready to play and that comes down to how dialed in they are in practice, and how well they understand the game plan, their roles, their protection schemes.

 

Last few weeks I would say it has been hard to point at one thing. A missed block here, a dropped pass there, a bad route, an errant throw, a fumble, a penalty...

 

When those things pile up, the offense looks disjointed and has no rhythm, and sputters to multiple 3 and outs.

 

IMO we need to clean that up, and then we can get into whatever the game plan on offense was supposed to be.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by WideNine

[Beck Water]

sooooooo.......what QB are we gonna be facing?

 

Apparently, his first name will start with the letter "M"

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bill-belichick-comments-on-malik-cunninghams-role-moving-forward/ar-AA1ijVDi

 

Quote

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick is not giving a reason why Malik Cunningham was signed to the 53-man roster ahead of Sunday’s game against the Las Vegas Raiders.

Cunningham had one pass attempt in the game, and he was sacked once. There were a few package play opportunities, but the rookie was never able to fully establish himself in the offense at quarterback.

The Louisville star played both the wide receiver and quarterback position in preseason. He scored a rushing touchdown and passed for 19 yards in the preseason, going 3-of-4 on his attempts.

Belichick did not give a concrete answer in regards to Cunningham’s role, as transcribed by NESN.com’s Zack Cox.

 

Such a surprise that Belicheck didn't give a concrete answer.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10/17/sports/do-patriots-have-master-plan-regarding-malik-cunningham/

 

Quote

Last Saturday, the Patriots signed rookie Malik Cunningham to the active roster on a three-year deal. On Sunday, they tapped him as their backup quarterback against the Raiders.

Why? It’s not entirely clear.

Coach Bill Belichick said Sunday the team did so because “there’s a lot of people that are hurt.” JuJu Smith-Schuster and Demario Douglas were unavailable in concussion protocol, so the Patriots needed additional depth at wide receiver. In that case, why not just temporarily elevate Cunningham from the practice squad to the game-day roster? And why also name him the backup quarterback over Bailey Zappe?

The decision was perplexing.

Cunningham, who played quarterback at Louisville before the Patriots signed him as an undrafted rookie and changed his primary position, ended up being involved in six snaps on Sunday. He lined up as a receiver four times and as the quarterback twice. He logged zero targets, zero carries, and zero pass attempts.

 

Quote

Here’s the extent of Cunningham’s action: In the first quarter, he handed off the ball to Rhamondre Stevenson for a 1-yard gain. In the third quarter, he was on the field for Ezekiel Elliott’s 2-yard touchdown run — a play in which he started under center and then motioned out wide so that Elliott could take the snap directly. In the fourth quarter, he faked a handoff to Elliott, only to get swarmed on a sack for a loss of 5 yards.

 

Quote

O’Brien said the team hasn’t lost any confidence in 2022 fourth-round draft pick Bailey Zappe, who served as the backup quarterback for Weeks 1-5. The team’s actions sure speak for themselves, though, as the Patriots subjected Zappe to waivers on cutdown day and then proceeded to sign Matt Corral, Ian Book, and Will Grier to compete with him.

So, is Cunningham the backup quarterback moving forward? Belichick and O’Brien indicated the plan is subject to change.

“I think that’ll be week to week, depending on different things that go on,” O’Brien said. “You could see him at different spots throughout the offense — obviously, other than offensive line. He can play at a lot of different places, so it’ll be week to week based on the game plan.”

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

9 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Some of the play calls have  been head scratchers but we had that with Dabs too. 

 

Most OCs have WTF moments.

 

More concerning to me is how ready the offense is going into the games.

 

How crisp they are executing the plays? How many unforced penalties? How many missed blocks? How many drops or errant throws?

 

When I  see those miscues, I think they are not ready to play and that comes down to how dialed in they are in practice, and how well they understand the game plan, their roles, their protection schemes.

 

Last few weeks I would say it has been hard to point at one thing. A missed block here, a dropped pass there, a bad route, an errant throw, a fumble, a penalty...

 

When those things pile up, the offense looks disjointed and has no rhythm, and sputters to multiple 3 and outs.

 

IMO we need to clean that up, and then we can get into whatever the game plan on offense was supposed to be.

 

 

 

I hesitated to link it in this thread because Eric Wood doesn't start talking about the Patriots matchup until 14:45, and I don't want to turn this into "Giants Recap Part 11" or something.

 

But in his OBD piece this week, Eric Wood said something surprisingly blunt about all the screen shots fans are posting on twitter showing how open various receivers were.  He caveats, saying from a screenshot, you don't know whether they're open at the right time in the progression.  But then he points out (paraphrasing): "if these guys are that wide open and Josh is passing them up to throw to Diggs, it tells you one thing.  It tells you Josh doesn't trust them."

 

Ooof.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[CircleTheWagons99]

Will the offense get over the slump?

[John from Riverside]

Here’s a question does anybody not think that the bills are not going to get past the slump?

[Bubba Gump]

***** that team. Brady or not, they can go eat *****. Nothing better than watching Billy and his window licking son fail. 

 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

FWIW, Banged Up Bills analysis of injuries

"stinger" for Cam Lewis
Concussion/neck sprain for Damien Harris
 

He thinks Allen has AC Joint sprain

He points out that Allen's completion percentage dropped when he was recovering from an AC joint sprain on his non-throwing shoulder in 2020.  But, he expects Josh to get pain control and tape/bracing and play through it.

 

 

And one more.  Evidently Quintin Morris has a high ankle 😥 sprain:

 

Apparently he caught the TD pass on it.

 

[Doc Brown]

9 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Now, BB doesn't have to put a spy on Allen because he's not a great to run. That extra player will be used to double Diggs. You can bank on it. 

 

Diggs is about 40% of the Bills offense. 

And then Josh runs.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

He caveats, saying from a screenshot, you don't know whether they're open at the right time in the progression. 

I’ve been saying that for two years

42 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

And then Josh runs.

mostly Josh hesitates because he is conflicted from coaching so he waits until the last second to try and make a pass instead. By then it’s too late or he finds a pass he thinks he can make instead of taking the yards he could definitely make. 

[Doc Brown]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

mostly Josh hesitates because he is conflicted from coaching so he waits until the last second to try and make a pass instead. By then it’s too late or he finds a pass he thinks he can make instead of taking the yards he could definitely make. 

I'm actually fine with that as I want him around 10 more years and not five.  However, if he thinks he can pick up yards without getting hit (sliding, running out of bounds) then he needs to take it.  It's something Mahomes is very good at.  If it's 2nd and goal from the half yard line though you QB sneak it to Josh right up the middle on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th down no matter what.  You hear me Dorsey.

[LyndonvilleBill]

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Some of the play calls have  been head scratchers but we had that with Dabs too. 

 

Most OCs have WTF moments. More concerning to me is how ready the offense is going into the games.

 

How crisp they are executing the plays? How many unforced penalties? How many missed blocks? How many drops or errant throws?

 

When I  see those miscues, I think they are not ready to play and that comes down to how dialed in they are in practice, and how well they understand the game plan, their roles, their protection schemes.

 

Last few weeks I would say it has been hard to point at one thing. A missed block here, a dropped pass there, a bad route, an errant throw, a fumble, a penalty...

 

When those things pile up, the offense looks disjointed and has no rhythm, and sputters to multiple 3 and outs.

 

IMO we need to clean that up, and then we can get into whatever the game plan on offense was supposed to be.

 

 

It's not so much as the WTF momonents, it just seems to be so vanilla.  Throw to Diggs, run from shotgun then throw to Diggs. Just doesn't seem to be any creativity or real flow. Plus running basically the same O that Daboll was running. It just seems stale. No sweeps, barely use our TE's. 

 

I'm not a hater of Dorsey,  I just expected more "creativity" from a QB minded OC. At least Dabs had some gadget plays in his pocket. 

 

With McD being a D minded coach and now running the D I just think he should have a very well experienced OC. Especially because I think he is the kind of coach that puts a lot of trust in the hands of others (delegates). 

 

Maybe I'm wrong and McD is calling for a basic O gameplan and wants to control the game with the D?🤔  Just would seem odd when you have Josh as your QB.

 

I'll wait to see what the O does this weekend, but if Dorsey doesn't kick it up a notch or two, Whoa Nellie, it's going to get loud around here!😱

[PaattMaann]

Really hoping the AC Joint speculation turns out to just be speculation and it was just a hard hit to the shoulder/stinger. Any level of drop off from Josh, or god forbid he cant play for any amount of time, we are screwed. Can we just fast forward to todays practice time please? I've been worried about this since the end of the Giants game. 

[RichRiderBills]

I agree Daboll had some of the same issues. 

 

I will say that Daboll's final 5-6 games leading up to and including :13 sec were some very balanced and effective OC work. Really a fine hour for him.

 

In general I prefer Daboll. He had more willingness to use speed to test the outside the tackles and was not averse to the occasional trickeration or misdirection. 

[Long Suffering Fan]

9 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

The Bills run game has been inconsistent from under center this year? I think not. 

 

The only games the Bills couldn't run was when they insisted on running from out of shotgun.

 

But it's not just the run game that better under center, it's the pass game too. 

 

That's exactly what the numbers say.

 

9 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

Actually the first TD drive against the Giants was almost exclusively created with shotgun draws to Murray.

 

Murray is much better from the shotgun run than Cook.  I assume that is because Cook's major asset is speed and Murray leans more toward power.  Josh catches the ball, there is a pause, then he puts the ball into Cook's stomach at a standstill, he runs between the tackles, and it doesn't work well.  I don't mind the version so much where Cook runs in front of Josh and takes it more off tackle/sweep.  At least he is moving, plus he has a little more time to accelerate.  

 

I get that you have to mix it up and Cook has to run some from shotgun, but the eye test tells me that Cook should get 80-90% of his runs with Josh under center...at least my eye test does.