Elam a healthy scratch part deux (now part TRES) (now part QUATRO)

[Ya Digg?]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Hamlin isn’t a huge surprise, but your second year first rounder not cracking the active list …. If there is any potential trade value at all because a scheme prefers his man2man skill set you look at it. 

I fully disagree with “any” trade value. He has more value to the team than a couple of late round picks. He’s a corner black still on his rookie contract so he’s cheap. He has shown he can play (was the teams best corner in the playoffs last year) so you keep him unless another team offers something good. Late rounds picks shouldn’t be the definition of good 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

What is the point of having inactives? So, out of a 53 man roster, 48 players can be active but not the other 5? What sense does that make?

 

It is part of history of NFL.  They did not have 16 player practice squads.  Players used to get dinged up and released even though they would be able to play in a week or two because coaches did not want to be playing with less players.  Some players also have potential but take time to develop so this allows teams to develop them without risk of other teams signing them.

[DJB]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

It happens

 

Beane can work a roster but he needs to draft better

 

 

 

Who?

 

 

Breece Hall. I made so many posts as to why we should have drafted him round 1. Got a lot of hate 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Good luck at your next stop in the NFL kid … I think you’ve cemented your place in the Bills bust HOF. Not entirely your fault, but it is what it is 

[appoo]

5 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Good luck at your next stop in the NFL kid … I think you’ve cemented your place in the Bills bust HOF. Not entirely your fault, but it is what it is 

Taron Johnson’s contract runs out after next season, and Dane is a RFA after this season. 
 

Kair isnt going anywhere, and I think he’ll get a shot to compete with Taron Johnson - who plays a lot of man - eventually, perhaps next season 

13 minutes ago, DJB said:

Breece Hall. I made so many posts as to why we should have drafted him round 1. Got a lot of hate 

Corners are a lot more valuable than RBs and I think Kair is gonna work out. Too much cover ability to not. 

[QLBillsFan]

He’s very valuable. CB depth is key. I think he should play but apparently the Bills disagree. I think TW is struggling quite a bit. Jackson got some time late. Not sure just a rest for TW or not. Speed and positioning is his game. But he’s a bit off and the bigger WR’s are posting him up ! Elam needs some game time. 

[GreggTX]

I'm so disappointed. I was hoping for the league's best CB trio with Elam, White and Johnson.

[appoo]

20 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

He’s very valuable. CB depth is key. I think he should play but apparently the Bills disagree. I think TW is struggling quite a bit. Jackson got some time late. Not sure just a rest for TW or not. Speed and positioning is his game. But he’s a bit off and the bigger WR’s are posting him up ! Elam needs some game time. 

What have you seen from White to think he’s struggling?

Just now, GreggTX said:

I'm so disappointed. I was hoping for the league's best CB trio with Elam, White and Johnson.

Would you be happy with a potentially great one with White, Benford and Johnson? Like are people not paying attention to how ***** good Christian Benford has been?

[QLBillsFan]

Just now, appoo said:

What have you seen from White to think he’s struggling?

Think he’s step behind. Lot of missed tackles last week. Boxed out by Wilson ( agree just great play). He just doesn’t seem to make plays. Be interested to see if stats prove it pr not. Eye test I guess. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

49 minutes ago, DJB said:

Breece Hall. I made so many posts as to why we should have drafted him round 1. Got a lot of hate 

Yup that was mine and my father’s pick as well. Didn’t think Singletary or moss were the answer. We wouldn’t have cook but I’d take that trade off at this point. Also could have went tackle and not just handed the job to Spencer Brown. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Rocbillsfan1

[appoo]

Just now, QLBillsFan said:

Think he’s step behind. Lot of missed tackles last week. Boxed out by Wilson ( agree just great play). He just doesn’t seem to make plays. Be interested to see if stats prove it pr not. Eye test I guess. 

He’s always been a fairly workaday run defender. 
 

It’s only 2 weeks, but I can recall any play where he hasn’t had good coverage. 

[Orlando Tim]

If Elam is a healthy scratch during the week of Dolphins I will be concerned if they have plan for him to grow into a role on this team. He is most athletic DB we have and that alone should make him valuable against Hill and Waddle

[MPL]

Guys, we're obviously just saving Elam for the playoffs. 

[Bubba Gump]

His name never came up once today at the game. I totally forgot about him until I saw this thread. What a horrible pick. 

[Chicken Boo]

He repeatedly stated that he wanted his playook asap.  Obviously they didn't get it to him fast enough.

[Shemp]

I'm wondering if they gave Hamlin an honorary roster space for his courage and don't intend on playing him. I wouldn't; just too scared about what could happen. 

[Airseven]

2 minutes ago, Shemp said:

I'm wondering if they gave Hamlin an honorary roster space for his courage and don't intend on playing him. I wouldn't; just too scared about what could happen. 

He’s not playing because he’s fifth on the depth chart at safety.

[Gunsgoodtime]

I have never had s healthy scratch, every time it was more serious like fleas

[VW82]

There's no way to not see Elam as a miss. McD is a good secondary coach, and Kaiir has been through two training camps now, and we gave him real opportunity last year. 

[DrDawkinstein]

This is total hindsight because I had no one better in mind at the time of the pick, but looking back, I guess I'd lean Dax Hill.

 

I get the Breece Hall love too, but I'm good with Cook and how we use him.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

It's really a numbers game, more than anything else.

• Benford beat him in camp and played well last week
• Dane Jackson is the veteran 3rd CB
• Cam Lewis offers positional flexibility because he can play CB and safety in a pinch
• Elam doesn't play special teams

But it is at this point a really poor draft pick

Then teach Elam ST.  I find it hard to believe Cam "stone hands" Lewis is better than Elam. 

[appoo]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Then teach Elam ST.  I find it hard to believe Cam "stone hands" Lewis is better than Elam. 

so if Hyde & Poyer get dinged who's our deep safety?

[Paup 1995MVP]

11 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree!

 

My take on it is if Benford wasn't on the team, Elam would at a minimum be active and maybe even starting.  If the Bills had known they were going to draft Benford and he'd be as good as he has turned out to be, I'm sure things would have been done differently.  It's not very often a 6th round pick beats out a 1st rounder particularly from the same draft so that certainly gives this a bad look for the Bills. 

 

Diggs was a 5th round pick.  I'm sure he's jumped over many players drafted higher than him, but because they weren't likely taken in the same draft, it goes unnoticed and all the talk is about how great Diggs is.  With Elam not playing also doesn't give him the in game experience to improve so will take longer.

 

To me though this whole thread should be about how good Benford has become, that to me is the story.

The other real story is that Tre White looks like he is running in quicksand.  He has nowhere near the burst that he played with before his knee injury.  And that's too bad.  But thats the NFL.  Lets hope he gets better the more he plays.  But Elam can play in the NFL.  Don't write him off yet because he isn't dressing.  It would not shock me if this is Tre's last year with the team.  And then we go Benford Elam and Jackson as our top 3 boundary corners.  

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Then teach Elam ST.  I find it hard to believe Cam "stone hands" Lewis is better than Elam. 

 

He's more versatile.  Lewis can play nickel CB, boundary CB, and S - plus teams.

[DJB]

10 hours ago, appoo said:

Taron Johnson’s contract runs out after next season, and Dane is a RFA after this season. 
 

Kair isnt going anywhere, and I think he’ll get a shot to compete with Taron Johnson - who plays a lot of man - eventually, perhaps next season 

Corners are a lot more valuable than RBs and I think Kair is gonna work out. Too much cover ability to not. 

Not going to disagree that corners are more valuable than an RB…they are …but I’ve said all along this offense needed an elite RB to take the pressure off Josh and an elite one was staring at us in the face and we passed on him. 
 

It’s only compounding my frustration because Elam is a scratch atm

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

Not going to disagree that corners are more valuable than an RB…they are …but I’ve said all along this offense needed an elite RB to take the pressure off Josh and an elite one was staring at us in the face and we passed on him. 
 

It’s only compounding my frustration because Elam is a scratch atm

Honest question. Which elite rb did we pass on?

[DJB]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Honest question. Which elite rb did we pass on?

Cmon man don’t play foolish. Breece Hall you know the answer 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The other real story is that Tre White looks like he is running in quicksand.  He has nowhere near the burst that he played with before his knee injury.  And that's too bad.  But thats the NFL.  Lets hope he gets better the more he plays.  But Elam can play in the NFL.  Don't write him off yet because he isn't dressing.  It would not shock me if this is Tre's last year with the team.  And then we go Benford Elam and Jackson as our top 3 boundary corners.  

 

 

Completely agree.  Not sure how Tre's contract lines up if they can easily do that in this coming off season or not.  But yeah unless he improves, his time will be somewhat limited.

[SCBills]

The Defense has obviously looked good in the first two weeks against bad and average QB play.  

 

My only concern is speed in the secondary when we play against Miami.  Not so much with Benford or Johnson, but Hyde, Poyer and Tre are going to need to be on point in that matchup and not find themselves chasing guys. 

 

Would be nice to have a CB like Elam to put out there in a matchup like this.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by SCBills

[Breakout Squad]

23 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

The Bills won’t get much back for him. Maybe a 5th or 6th round pick.. most teams wait for the Bills to cut him next year and then take a flier on him. 

I’d take a 5th. Anyone else hear about his bad practice and/or work ethic? Heard rumors he’s not putting in the work 

[Brand J]

18 minutes ago, Breakout Squad said:

I’d take a 5th. Anyone else hear about his bad practice and/or work ethic? Heard rumors he’s not putting in the work 

That would be surprising. I’ve heard the opposite, that he puts in a ton and will beat himself up if he’s not producing. Last year early on I remember McD saying Kaiir needs to be easier on himself. Don’t think work ethic is the issue. 

[davefan66]

22 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

They made up for Elam with Benford.  No one thought that was a bad pick at the time.  Not ideal but not the drama some make it out to be. 

My son and I had the same take talking about him yesterday that the Benford pick makes up for it player for player.

 

Wasting a top pick on a guy who can’t get on the field is definitely a problem.

[QLBillsFan]

The niners say hold my beer 🍺 on fanning up #1 picks🤓

[QLBillsFan]

45 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

My son and I had the same take talking about him yesterday that the Benford pick makes up for it player for player.

 

Wasting a top pick on a guy who can’t get on the field is definitely a problem.

Great points. That’s why you play this out on his rookie deal. He will end up being way more valuable than any trade for a 5th. One injury and he’s contributing.

[HardyBoy]

Is it possible that he's actually number two on the depth chart, just not coming in off the bench during a game?

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, davefan66 said:

My son and I had the same take talking about him yesterday that the Benford pick makes up for it player for player.

 

Wasting a top pick on a guy who can’t get on the field is definitely a problem.

 

I don't know if I'm there yet.  

 

Does Benford have the ability to become a CB1?  If so, I'd be inclined to agree.

 

If his ceiling is solid CB2 in our system, then a potential miss on Elam still hurts.  

 

A guy you draft in RD1 typically has traits to become a high end starter.  Elam has those traits, but it hasn't translated yet.  Does Benford?  Maybe, we'll see.. but for this to be a one for one deal, I need to see that ability from Benford.  

 

Ideally Elam figures it out and we have the option (not saying we should, but we "could") of moving off Tre next year, depending on how this year goes for him, and have a much easier job resetting our cap by moving off say... Tre White and Mitch Morse. 

[BillsFan4]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:46 AM, wppete said:

Wow. Fells like he could be a trade candidate this year. Disappointing. 

I think it would be tough for the Bills to stomach the dead cap hit.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kaiir-elam-76877/#:~:text=Kaiir Elam signed a 4,dead cap value of %2411%2C201%2C572.

 

$11M dead cap if he’s traded this year.

 

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

Is it possible that he's actually number two on the depth chart, just not coming in off the bench during a game?

No.

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

That would be surprising. I’ve heard the opposite, that he puts in a ton and will beat himself up if he’s not producing. Last year early on I remember McD saying Kaiir needs to be easier on himself. Don’t think work ethic is the issue. 

Oh I wasn’t talking about him as much as teams don’t usually offer much in trade if they think he is going be cut . And the way they were talking that’s what It sounded like.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Honest question. Which elite rb did we pass on?

 

4 hours ago, DJB said:

Cmon man don’t play foolish. Breece Hall you know the answer 

 

Hall the obvious, but even Ken Walker II looks pretty decent in comparison.