Nephilim17 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 11 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term. Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points. We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should. Trading a low 4th rounder to get an elite pass catcher who could be a perennial pro bowler is not bad business. I think Kincaid will be a 1,000-yard player next season. All account from camp reinforce the idea that this can runs great routes and has amazing and consistent hands. You'll see within a couple months how much his presence improves Josh and the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Since1981 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On a very good roster 4,5,6 rounders might not make the team. Use the picks to get a better round 1. Beane targeted a pass catcher in round one. I still believe he promised during 14/17 restructures. Beane had to jump to Kincaid as the other catchers were being scooped up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 17 hours ago, WotAGuy said: Did the article mention Beane was at Tempo having dinner with @BADOLBILZ, @Einstein and @ScottLaw when this went down? George Seifert drove them all to the restaurant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said: Given that Beane was looking for a pass catcher in Rd1, imo he would have picked say Addison over Kincaid if both were available. And said the exact same thing he is saying about Kincaid But now looking back and seeing the mismatches Kincaid will cause, is Addison the better pick? At best he is battling Davis for #2 duties and based on everything said about Davis during training camp he would not have won that battle. So there would be 50 threads on how bad Addison is 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 18 hours ago, WotAGuy said: Did the article mention Beane was at ANGELINE having dinner with @BADOLBILZ, @Einstein and @ScottLaw when this went down? The obligatory FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 I don’t get how he dropped still when having a top 5 tight end is the ultimate mismatch in todays NFL. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 For what it's worth (almost nothing) my pre-draft mock draft simulations very consistently presented me with Dalton Kincaid as the best offensive weapon who slid to our pick (or within justifiable range of our pick in a trade-up scenario). Prior to those couple weeks of late-night mock draft simulations, I didn't know much about Kincaid (beyond some smallish school intrigue compounded by no pre-draft workout metrics due to a back injury). It's probably searchable, my various shared mock drafts, but I'm somewhat certain that I picked Kincaid more often than many others who shared their own drafts. Sometimes people are just really good at football, and the pre-draft underwear olympics economy doesn't generate much engagement pointing out such unquantifiably positive opinions. Kincaid is the closest thing to Kelce (the TE) we've seen in recent memory, innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 18 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said: I’m sure they didn’t which is why they made the deal originally. But at the end of the day you have to do what’s best for your team at the draft. I'm just glad Beane had a backup plan. I'm done with Schoen and the Giants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 I don't think they were laser focussed in on Kincaid. I think they had 3 pass catchers they'd have taken. But he ended up the last one on the board and was within shooting distance. I do think it is two years in a row though when they have gone into the first round saying "we gotta have X." Was a receiver in 2023, a corner in 2022. I don't love it as a mindset. Though I do like Kincaid and think he has a chance to be a solid player here for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whkfc Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 Beane also said it on Pete Shragers podcast. Another comment he made that I found interesting was how the Bills liked Washington quarterback Sam Howell when he came out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, and it's clear that he wanted Kincaid more than any of the receivers that went in the early 20s. I don't see anything new in the Giants story, myself, at least not from the Bills perspective. He's gone over this in Imbedded and a few other places. Surprised me, earlier, that he would've traded back rather than pick Nolan Smith. I liked him. But Beane is smarter and better at this than I would be, though that doesn't make him right every time. So far, picking Kincaid looks like a terrific decision. I’d be very disappointed in Beane if he wanted Kincaid more than any of the WRs that went before him, particularly JSN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airseven Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 I don’t buy this. I’m sure GMs develop hypothetical trade scenarios with their buddies. It’s part of the job. But Beane targeting a TE is a stretch. That run on WRs was no coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieEm Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 6:36 AM, eball said: The article is linked on the TBD news page. Apparently the Giants and Bills had a deal in place to trade picks because Beane really wanted Kincaid, but Schoen nixed it on draft night to trade up and get their guy, and Beane had to then scramble to do a deal with Tampa (edit: Jacksonville) and jump ahead of Dallas (whom everyone knew wanted a TE). Anyway, I found it interesting that Kincaid was Beane’s target all along… Makes sense given the Giants FO has close ties with the Bills and it was gonna keep Kincaid away from their division rival Cowboys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think they were laser focussed in on Kincaid. I think they had 3 pass catchers they'd have taken. But he ended up the last one on the board and was within shooting distance. I do think it is two years in a row though when they have gone into the first round saying "we gotta have X." Was a receiver in 2023, a corner in 2022. I don't love it as a mindset. Though I do like Kincaid and think he has a chance to be a solid player here for a long time. As a draft philosophy, I agree not to focus on the position. But McBeane prioritizing O this year was the right thing to do. I would have been fine if they would have flip flopped the positions drafted in Rd 1 and 2 if the draft fell that way. Also, Kincaid was not picked at their original draft position but via a small move up - which means they didnt draft just any pass catcher who was available at their own draft position. It just so happened that a BPA at position of need was available very close to their pick position. Which is fine, imo. Edited August 11, 2023 by Fan in Chicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieEm Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: I’d be very disappointed in Beane if he wanted Kincaid more than any of the WRs that went before him, particularly JSN. I don't know if I'd be so shocked. We have a good scouting department. And for perspective on how sure a need Kincaid was in his college career ... 138 targets only 2 drops which is over a 98% catch rate. This from a guy who only started playing organized football of any kind as a Jr in hs. He only started playing football the same time Dawson Knox has been playing for the Bills. Don't know the college career catch rates of any of the top wrs drafted this year, but I'm pretty sure very few top college receivers have a catch rate that high and I'm talking any wr, even those already in the HoF. I don't even think Kincaid is gonna maintain that rate as a pro, however it does appear he's always been surehanded catching passes. And I can see the Bills scouts taking that into consideration as well as being a nice variation to a top wr. He's taller and he won't draw the opponents top cb even if he starts out on fire don't think any team will take their top cb off Diggs or even Davis. Who is the tallest of any of the better cbs in the league? Most are in the 6' to maybe 6' 2"??? Josh can toss throws higher to a tall surehanded pass catchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think they were laser focussed in on Kincaid. I think they had 3 pass catchers they'd have taken. But he ended up the last one on the board and was within shooting distance. I do think it is two years in a row though when they have gone into the first round saying "we gotta have X." Was a receiver in 2023, a corner in 2022. I don't love it as a mindset. Though I do like Kincaid and think he has a chance to be a solid player here for a long time. This is what I'm thinking. Prior to the draft you don't know what player will be available and Beane might have thought that Kincaid would have been gone well before the 24th pick. But for a team looking to get to the SB and win it, going for need, as long as it's not a reach, is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: For what it's worth (almost nothing) my pre-draft mock draft simulations very consistently presented me with Dalton Kincaid as the best offensive weapon who slid to our pick (or within justifiable range of our pick in a trade-up scenario). Prior to those couple weeks of late-night mock draft simulations, I didn't know much about Kincaid (beyond some smallish school intrigue compounded by no pre-draft workout metrics due to a back injury). It's probably searchable, my various shared mock drafts, but I'm somewhat certain that I picked Kincaid more often than many others who shared their own drafts. Sometimes people are just really good at football, and the pre-draft underwear olympics economy doesn't generate much engagement pointing out such unquantifiably positive opinions. Kincaid is the closest thing to Kelce (the TE) we've seen in recent memory, innit? I was thinking a healthy Darren Waller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 Just now, Fan in Chicago said: As a draft philosophy, I agree not to focus on the position. But McBeane prioritizing O this year was the right thing to do. I would have been fine if they would have flip flopped the positions drafted in Rd 1 and 2 if the draft fell that way. Also, Kincaid was not picked at their original draft position but via a small move up - which means they didnt draft just any pass catcher who was available at their own draft position. It just happened that a BPA at position of need was available very close to their pick position. Which is fine, imo. But the problem when you start justifying decisions in isolation is you can make a case why each and every decision is sensible "at the time". That is why strategy matters. I am not displeased with the outcome, but when you start saying to yourself "we must have a pass catcher" or "we must have X guy" you set yourself up to make mistakes. My point was never to say that they were just going to take any old receiver... but the fact that they lasered in so much on a pass catcher means you start saying things like "it makes sense to give up a 4th." And again, I'm not displeased with this outcome. But strategically giving up your 4th rounder two years in a row to make small moves up because you have said positions are that vital to you isn't the way I'd try and run my personnel operation. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 10 hours ago, That's No Moon said: George Seifert drove them all to the restaurant. This part is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: This part is false. It can't be, my buddy saw him at the rental car counter at the airport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 11:10 AM, BillsFanNC said: In the video they have Pegula asking Beane pre draft (6:39 PM as suggested in video)... "If somebody's falling..." Beane: "The Utah TE.." Pegula- Kincaid would be a game changer. Certainly looks so. Got 1 of the best weapons in the draft. Unbelievable 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, BarleyNY said: I’d be very disappointed in Beane if he wanted Kincaid more than any of the WRs that went before him, particularly JSN. Beane did say they had a first-round grade on one of the receivers who was drafted in the early 20s, before Kincaid. He didn't say which one (natch) and he didn't give any indication who he would have taken if they were both there. 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: But the problem when you start justifying decisions in isolation is you can make a case why each and every decision is sensible "at the time". That is why strategy matters. I am not displeased with the outcome, but when you start saying to yourself "we must have a pass catcher" or "we must have X guy" you set yourself up to make mistakes. My point was never to say that they were just going to take any old receiver... but the fact that they lasered in so much on a pass catcher means you start saying things like "it makes sense to give up a 4th." And again, I'm not displeased with this outcome. But strategically giving up your 4th rounder two years in a row to make small moves up because you have said positions are that vital to you isn't the way I'd try and run my personnel operation. I don't think you (or any of us) can know whether the Bills did, in fact, "laser in on a pass catcher" or say "we must have a pass catcher". And I don't think Beane was flying by the seat of his pants "oh, there's only one pass catcher we want left, and we really need one, let's give up a 4th" On the other hand, obviously roster building does have to factor into it to some degree, or you wind up drafting CB (for example) every year when you have real needs at every position. My guess would be that the Bills have a handful of guys, maybe 10-15, they have graded as first round talents then a smaller set, maybe 6, they have graded as a match between 1st round talent and roster-building needs. They probably have 1 or 2 they would be willing to use resources to trade up for. And then I suspect they work scenarios - three draft picks ahead of our slot, how many of those guys are left? And how high is our grade on the ones that are left? Are they players we have flagged as "trade up worthy?" Because if it gets to 3 picks ahead of you and you have 2 guys graded as 1st round picks who remain, your choice is 1) trade up 2) stand pat and trade down if you can 3) stand pat and reach That's how I think it happens, not "Oh my goodness, we MUST have a pass catcher, so much that we'll squander resources and trade up to get one". Edited August 11, 2023 by Beck Water 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 9 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said: I don’t get how he dropped still when having a top 5 tight end is the ultimate mismatch in todays NFL. I think it was the back injury. Maybe. Maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Beane did say they had a first-round grade on one of the receivers who was drafted in the early 20s, before Kincaid. He didn't say which one (natch) and he didn't give any indication who he would have taken if they were both there. I don't think you (or any of us) can know whether the Bills did, in fact, "laser in on a pass catcher" or say "we must have a pass catcher". And I don't think Beane was flying by the seat of his pants "oh, there's only one pass catcher we want left, and we really need one, let's give up a 4th" On the other hand, obviously roster building does have to factor into it to some degree, or you wind up drafting CB (for example) every year when you have real needs at every position. My guess would be that the Bills have a handful of guys, maybe 10-15, they have graded as first round talents then a smaller set, maybe 6, they have graded as a match between 1st round talent and roster-building needs. They probably have 1 or 2 they would be willing to use resources to trade up for. And then I suspect they work scenarios - three draft picks ahead of our slot, how many of those guys are left? And how high is our grade on the ones that are left? Are they players we have flagged as "trade up worthy?" Because if it gets to 3 picks ahead of you and you have 2 guys graded as 1st round picks who remain, your choice is 1) trade up 2) stand pat and trade down if you can 3) stand pat and reach That's how I think it happens, not "Oh my goodness, we MUST have a pass catcher, so much that we'll squander resources and trade up to get one". That is how it SHOULD happen. Beane pretty much told us in 2022 he didn't think he could sleep if he didn't come out of day 1 without a corner. He didn't quite say "we had to have one" but it was pretty clear their primary objective in 2022 was to come out of round 1 with a corner. He wasn't quite as explicit in the run up to, or after, this past draft but the way they went about their draft season and the way the draft panned out I very strongly suspect they were dead set on a pass catcher and if there wasn't a pass catcher there for them they though was value (or achievable with a small trade up) they were going to move down. They were not willing to pick a non-pass catcher at their original spot. They had lasered in on it to my eye. I accept that is supposition and I don't know it for certain, but I don't think it is an unreasonable conclusion to come to based on everything that we do know - from visits, to the way the draft played out, to Beane's interviews and to the draft room videos. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 7:32 AM, BillsFanNC said: Yep. to @Gunnerbill's point, it's notable that in this video, Beane is busy wheeling and dealing (and has his crew querying) to see what he can get if he moves back. 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That is how it SHOULD happen. Beane pretty much told us in 2022 he didn't think he could sleep if he didn't come out of day 1 without a corner. He didn't quite say "we had to have one" but it was pretty clear their primary objective in 2022 was to come out of round 1 with a corner. He wasn't quite as explicit in the run up to, or after, this past draft but the way they went about their draft season and the way the draft panned out I very strongly suspect they were dead set on a pass catcher and if there wasn't a pass catcher there for them they though was value (or achievable with a small trade up) they were going to move down. They were not willing to pick a non-pass catcher at their original spot. They had lasered in on it to my eye. I accept that is supposition and I don't know it for certain, but I don't think it is an unreasonable conclusion to come to based on everything that we do know - from visits, to the way the draft played out, to Beane's interviews and to the draft room videos. I didn't here that in 2022, but it's hard to prove a negative. If you had any links to articles and videos demonstrating that, would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoMAn Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 23 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Doing deals to trade UP, and giving up assets in the process, in order to get "that 1 guy that you really like" is fundamentally BAD BUSINESS and not how to proceed, long term. Beane likes doing this, which is one of his few weak points. We'll hopefully find out what Kincaid is about this year, assuming McDermott will play him a ton, which he should. Exactly. Like the time Beane gave up assets in the 2018 draft for an unproven small school QB. What a dope.😒 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 13 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said: Given that Beane was looking for a pass catcher in Rd1, imo he would have picked say Addison over Kincaid if both were available. And said the exact same thing he is saying about Kincaid I honestly don’t believe this at all. I think he preferred Kincaid all along. He really like Davis at WR and has been pushing this type of TE for a few seasons now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 The thing that I am loving about Dalton Kincaid until he proves different is the consistency He doesn’t appear to have any ups or downs in camp. He’s just good. He’s also got a niche role if you have something that you’re really good at and you’ve got a coordinated that knows how to use it you will shine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: But the problem when you start justifying decisions in isolation is you can make a case why each and every decision is sensible "at the time". That is why strategy matters. I am not displeased with the outcome, but when you start saying to yourself "we must have a pass catcher" or "we must have X guy" you set yourself up to make mistakes. My point was never to say that they were just going to take any old receiver... but the fact that they lasered in so much on a pass catcher means you start saying things like "it makes sense to give up a 4th." And again, I'm not displeased with this outcome. But strategically giving up your 4th rounder two years in a row to make small moves up because you have said positions are that vital to you isn't the way I'd try and run my personnel operation. Yeah, but this isn't done in a vacuum, there is context and circumstances that dictate some of these decisions, including a substantial amount of draft research not only on the players but insight and how the board might fall. For example, in both cases, the Bills were picking late in the first round. It's not like they went into the draft 100% certain they needed to trade up to get Elam for example. He was a kid they were high on who they felt they would have a shot at where they were picking, and the pre-draft footage supports that, and as the draft fell he was by all accounts the last player on their board with a first round grade. It was in that moment where they felt they needed to make a move to get him because they also didn't have anyone else graded high enough to take at their draft slot if he went before their pick. Had there been multiple players they liked at their spot then the need to make a move maybe doesn't happen. Same with Kincaid, they didn't feel he was even going to make it to them. And as they approached their pick, he was the only one on the board they felt had a first round grade at any position, and getting the offense more weapons was also a priority. So combine the fact that we needed more weapons for Allen and no one left beyond Kincaid had a first round grade, offense or defense, and the fact they had Kincaid graded high on their board and was a significant value add at where they could get him, they decided to make the move to go get him that was relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other moves teams made to move up in the first. I don't think that if say Kincaid and the 2 WR's who they reportedly had a first round grade on were all on the board they would have felt the need to move up. Lastly, when you are top level team with a tight cap, best way to add high end talent cost effectively is to through the draft. And when you are drafting late, you don't often have opportunities to land premium players, and they very much saw Kincaid as a premium prospect graded higher than where we got him. In fact many felt he has the best hands of any TE or WR in the draft, so to be in position to get a premium prospect late in the first by only giving up a 4th is one of those opportunities that doesn't happen every year. So I like that Beane is aggressive in these moments to go get the talent he has graded high rather than sit back and take someone they didn't even have a first round grade on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: The obligatory FIFY Couldn't have been Angeline; Tempo is the only place that serves retatta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 The NYP is frequently entertaining. It is rarely, if ever, useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) It would be a massive boost to the offense if he is borderline elite as a rookie. There seems to be some Kelce in him with his route nuances, knowing where to be against certain coverages, being lucky on tipped balls, great hands I just really hope that the staff puts him in positions to succeed and doesn't bench him for long periods of a game if he makes a mistake or misses a block Edited August 11, 2023 by Warriorspikes51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Beck Water said: to @Gunnerbill's point, it's notable that in this video, Beane is busy wheeling and dealing (and has his crew querying) to see what he can get if he moves back. I didn't here that in 2022, but it's hard to prove a negative. If you had any links to articles and videos demonstrating that, would be cool. He said it in the post pick presser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Yeah, but this isn't done in a vacuum, there is context and circumstances that dictate some of these decisions, including a substantial amount of draft research not only on the players but insight and how the board might fall. For example, in both cases, the Bills were picking late in the first round. It's not like they went into the draft 100% certain they needed to trade up to get Elam for example. He was a kid they were high on who they felt they would have a shot at where they were picking, and the pre-draft footage supports that, and as the draft fell he was by all accounts the last player on their board with a first round grade. It was in that moment where they felt they needed to make a move to get him because they also didn't have anyone else graded high enough to take at their draft slot if he went before their pick. Had there been multiple players they liked at their spot then the need to make a move maybe doesn't happen. Same with Kincaid, they didn't feel he was even going to make it to them. And as they approached their pick, he was the only one on the board they felt had a first round grade at any position, and getting the offense more weapons was also a priority. So combine the fact that we needed more weapons for Allen and no one left beyond Kincaid had a first round grade, offense or defense, and the fact they had Kincaid graded high on their board and was a significant value add at where they could get him, they decided to make the move to go get him that was relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other moves teams made to move up in the first. I don't think that if say Kincaid and the 2 WR's who they reportedly had a first round grade on were all on the board they would have felt the need to move up. Lastly, when you are top level team with a tight cap, best way to add high end talent cost effectively is to through the draft. And when you are drafting late, you don't often have opportunities to land premium players, and they very much saw Kincaid as a premium prospect graded higher than where we got him. In fact many felt he has the best hands of any TE or WR in the draft, so to be in position to get a premium prospect late in the first by only giving up a 4th is one of those opportunities that doesn't happen every year. So I like that Beane is aggressive in these moments to go get the talent he has graded high rather than sit back and take someone they didn't even have a first round grade on. Again what you are doing is saying "in isolation this made sense". I don't disagree with that. But you get yourself into the habit of justifying isolated decisions you can justify anything. Personally I think you have to take a more strategic view and I think Beane's aggression is mainly tactical and not strategic. I don't dislike the outcome. Doesn't mean I agree with the process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC-billsfan! Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 On 8/10/2023 at 8:32 AM, BillsFanNC said: Yep. Thanks! Looks like they got at least two maybe three players they liked a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: He said it in the post pick presser. OK. But I do think after the draft, every GM channels his "inner cat" You know, how a cat will fall off the edge of a table and then give you a look like "I meant to do that. Obviously, that was what I wanted to do". The players they wind up with are the ones they really wanted and are thrilled they had the opportunity to draft. After the draft, when talking up their draft picks, no "spin" intended at all 😇 Edited August 11, 2023 by Beck Water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Beck Water said: OK. But I do think after the draft, every GM channels his "inner cat" You know, how a cat will fall off the edge of a table and then give you a look like "I meant to do that. Obviously, that was what I wanted to do". The players they wind up with are the ones they really wanted and are thrilled they had the opportunity to draft. No "spin" intended I just don't believe the Bills are that unpredictable under this regime (not syaing that is a bad thing). In 2021 most thought it would be pass rusher. Was Rousseau. In 2022 most thought it would be corner. It was Elam. In 2023 most thought it would be receiver. It was Kincaid (a receiving tight end). Beane is bad at playing his cards close to his chest. He tells you straight (too straight sometimes). That isn't my critcism of him. It is part of why as a guy I really admire him. My criticism is his recent drafts - since we have been on the precipice - have been tactical not strategic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I just don't believe the Bills are that unpredictable under this regime (not syaing that is a bad thing). In 2021 most thought it would be pass rusher. Was Rousseau. In 2022 most thought it would be corner. It was Elam. In 2023 most thought it would be receiver. It was Kincaid (a receiving tight end). Beane is bad at playing his cards close to his chest. He tells you straight (too straight sometimes). That isn't my critcism of him. It is part of why as a guy I really admire him. My criticism is his recent drafts - since we have been on the precipice - have been tactical not strategic. He's said the past 3 drafts that every player he's taken was a 1st round talent, sometimes the last one left on their board. That sounds strategic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I just don't believe the Bills are that unpredictable under this regime (not syaing that is a bad thing). In 2021 most thought it would be pass rusher. Was Rousseau. In 2022 most thought it would be corner. It was Elam. In 2023 most thought it would be receiver. It was Kincaid (a receiving tight end). Beane is bad at playing his cards close to his chest. He tells you straight (too straight sometimes). That isn't my critcism of him. It is part of why as a guy I really admire him. My criticism is his recent drafts - since we have been on the precipice - have been tactical not strategic. I think, before potentially diving down a wormhole of misunderstanding in further discussion, I need to ask you what you mean by tactical and what you mean by strategic in this context Because part of the behavior you believe you see - "the team really needs a CB on day 1 of the draft" "I must come out of day 1 with a receiving talent", IF it is what's occurring, sounds like what I would call draft strategy. How you get there (trade up, stand pat and reach, trade back) sounds like tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 12 hours ago, WotAGuy said: Couldn't have been Angeline; Tempo is the only place that serves retatta. Man, I was still only on the BBMB back in 2005 when "retatta" was a message board thing here. So I am completely missing the actual reference beyond knowing there was some obviously humorous TBD thread 18 years ago when I was exclusively frequenting the "official" Bills message board when that existed. Anyone care to summarize for us BBMB refugees (or for the many youngins)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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