Training Camp - 8/9 - 9:45am

[MikePJ76]

Entirely to much is being made about the numbering of the wr.  Way to much worry about the #2.  JMO.

 

I'm not sure when this started but its a league wide thing with fans, obsession over the wide receivers.   

 

I personally think if they are able to lineup and run, especially inside whenever they want they are going to be great on offense.  The offense has some great players and nitpicking this number 2 thing is like not seeing the forest for the trees.   They have some players who interchangeable and can play at multiple spots along with what looks like two excellent tight ends.  

 

I am more concerned about them improving the offensive line going forward.  If the line is good they will always be able to find wr to make plays, no matter where they line up.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The Bills don’t take shots on receivers… that’s the difference between them and the Steelers.

 

Gabe is their highest pick used in a WR… excluding the Diggs trade and Zay Jones before Beane got here. 
 

Their approach to WR has been the opposite of many of the elite teams of the league. 

My point was the added benefit of making Gabe earn a big contract in a walk year… and I’m not paying Gabe what he’s projected based on what we’ve seen the past three years… which is not good enough for a SB team at WR2. 

You can't exclude trading a #1 pick for a WR and say the Bills are opposite the rest of the league.  Its the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make. They invested a #1 pick on a WR. Makes no difference if it is a veteran or a rookie. 

[Son of a K-Gun]

Maybe the Bills could offer Gabe a team-friendly extension while at the same time in a totally unrelated move the Bills would offer a record-breaking mascot deal to Ghost Davis?  Worked for Brady and the Pats all those years...

 

[HappyDays]

Updates from Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot:

 

Quote

Matt here with practice observations.

Rough day for O'Cyrus Torrence in pass protection in team drills. He's getting a steady stream of DaQuan Jones, which is hard on any guard, but it hasn't looked good in recent days. Torrence had one of the worst reps in 1-on-1 against depth tackle Cortez Broughton, who's having a sneaky good camp.

Kyle Allen threw another interception today, this time to Siran Neal who was hanging out in the slot. He read the quarterback the whole way and jumped pretty high to come away with the pick.

Offense started slow in team drills. Josh Allen had 4 incompletions before he completed on to Dawson Knox.

 

Quote

The biggest play of the day that almost happened was a bomb from Josh Allen to Deonte Harty. Fans groaned in attendance when Allen launched a missile down the center of the field and Harty went way to grab it before letting the ball pop out of his hands. I couldn't tell if he had it ripped out but it was a gotta-have-it ball.

Speaking of shaky hands, Khalil Shakir had one of the worst drops of camp on an easy quick throw. He likely heard Taylor Rapp coming because he dropped it right before the safety landed a big thud hit.

 

Quote

Buy all the Latavius Murray stock you can find. He had a huge day as RB2 with Harris out of action. He caught two passes for monster gains that helped spark the offense as they were working down the field. Murray has been impressive throughout camp but now is starting to get more opportunities. With Harris's health history, having Murray is such a luxury for Ken Dorsey.

Stefon Diggs had the route win of the day, working against Tre White in team. Josh Allen threw a gorgeous ball right into Diggs chest as he was gliding down the left sideline. Drive ended with an Allen rushing TD past linebacker Matt Milano. - Matt

 

[Virgil]

42 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

are you there? or did I miss the sar chasm?

  Yup, I was there.  

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The Bills don’t take shots on receivers… that’s the difference between them and the Steelers.

 

Gabe is their highest pick used in a WR… excluding the Diggs trade and Zay Jones before Beane got here. 
 

Their approach to WR has been the opposite of many of the elite teams of the league. 

My point was the added benefit of making Gabe earn a big contract in a walk year… and I’m not paying Gabe what he’s projected to make based on what we’ve seen the past three years… which is not good enough for a SB team at WR2. 

That’s fair.  
 

What do you feel he’s projected to make?  Spotrac says 12.4M and they tend to project higher than what the players actually get.  

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That was 3 years ago… they haven’t used a Day 1 or 2 pick on one since…. 

Except that they just traded up in the first round for a player that every evaluator thinks is an elite pass catcher who can stretch the field. The fact that he's labeled "tight end" is neither her nor there. What matters is that he's a highly graded passing game weapon. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I wish I was reading more positive stuff about O'Cyrus.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That was 3 years ago… they haven’t used a Day 1 or 2 pick on one since…. 

 

Could be because they're picking at the bottom of the rounds, and by the time their pick arrives, there isn't gonna be a receiver worth a damn left...like this year.

 

Only, this year it actually worked out in our favor.

 

 

[The Wiz]

Those ankles look strong this year.

 

 

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah we have to start making some tough decisions. We should do what the Steelers do and draft a WR every year. Let the WR2 walk, collect a nice comp pick, plug in the new guy, rinse and repeat. Extending Davis now is a gamble a team with a better future cap situation could take. For us it's way too risky IMO.

Yeah, I think once you pay a franchise quarterback, given what the market has been for receivers lately, the best case scenario is to draft a receiver who is a good number 2 who you can develop into a 1 and then let him walk.  I was really hoping that Davis would ball out LAST year and we could've traded him as a 1 and gotten a haul....but just getting the comp pick might have to be enough.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Updates from Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot:

 

 

 

 

"Shaky Hands" Shakir. Has an unfortunate ring to it.

[boyst]

anyone got reports of Porter Junior for the Jets? how he's looking?

[SCBills]

If we extend Gabe, we're likely looking at needing to draft DL early and often next year.

 

DL typically takes time to make an impact, especially outside the top 10 guys.

 

You can draft a WR on Day 2 that immediately becomes a WR2 level player if you hit. 

 

Definitely a tough decision, but this aspect should come into play.. 

[Lost]

4 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Those ankles look strong this year.

 

 

 

Elam's had a rough day today...

 

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, Lost said:

 

 

 

Would be nice to know who got the INT.

[947]

I like that they're force-feeding Torrence a steady dose of Daquon Jones. Let him struggle vs our best interior DL now & adapt/make adjustments so he's hopefully ready for the guys he'll see during the season.

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Elam's had a rough day today...

 

 

Good thing Gabe has had pretty much positive reviews everyday then.

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Wait.... when did we get a player named Shtubble?

I know right!? Had to use some artistic license. 

[Lost]

22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That was 3 years ago… they haven’t used a Day 1 or 2 pick on one since…. 

 

I'm still a little bummed that we traded up for a corner last year who still isn't starting when there was still someone like a George Pickens out there that we coulda traded down for and still picked up another depth corner later on.   Guess we didn't know how well Benford would turn out at the time but it doesn't seem like the Elam pick was such a necessity in retrospect.

[Beck Water]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Jones and Hodgins can both play in the NFL, they just got moved before they could prove it here

 

I dunno about that.  His 2nd season, 2018, Jones had 56 catches for 652 yards.  2.9% drops.  I don't think we moved him because we thought he couldn't play, I think we moved him because his "haid" was messed up and not in the game. 

 

And we weren't wrong - it took him 4 years and 2 teams to get back to that level of production.

 

I also think we believed Hodgins could play.  Beane just made a hard, and in hindsignt, bad choice, when faced with a roster numbers crunch at DB.  I do think this might be the kind of decision where McDermott being a defensive HC comes into play; he seems more protective of keeping bodies on defense than on offense, and we 100% could have used Hodgins once Kumerow went on IR.

[78thealltimegreat]

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I wish I was reading more positive stuff about O'Cyrus.  

He’s a rookie going against one of the best defensive lines in the league he’ll be ok. 

[HappyDays]

 

[stevewin]

30 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Would be nice to know who got the INT.

Yeah kinda crazy for a reporter to report an int but not who actually got the int.  From other reports think it was Neal

[SectionC3]

25 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I dunno about that.  His 2nd season, 2018, Jones had 56 catches for 652 yards.  2.9% drops.  I don't think we moved him because we thought he couldn't play, I think we moved him because his "haid" was messed up and not in the game. 

 

And we weren't wrong - it took him 4 years and 2 teams to get back to that level of production.

 

I also think we believed Hodgins could play.  Beane just made a hard, and in hindsignt, bad choice, when faced with a roster numbers crunch at DB.  I do think this might be the kind of decision where McDermott being a defensive HC comes into play; he seems more protective of keeping bodies on defense than on offense, and we 100% could have used Hodgins once Kumerow went on IR.

He kept Spector instead of Hodgins.  And this year there’s a good chance he’s going to cut Spector.  Oops. 

 

(And Hodgins isn’t Kumerow.  But he’s a much more functional receiver than Kumerow, and that piece obviously was lacking around the time we brought Brown and Beasley back last year.)

Edited August 9, 2023 by SectionC3

[K-9]

49 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That was 3 years ago… they haven’t used a Day 1 or 2 pick on one since…. 

That’s because they were able to fill the position with free agents who contributed a ton to one of best offenses in the league over the last few seasons. 

[Brand J]

45 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

"Shaky Hands" Shakir. Has an unfortunate ring to it.

Drop “hands” and just go with “Shaky Shakir.” It’s cleaner. 😂

[RoyBatty is alive]

40 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Elam's had a rough day today...

 

 

I thought he was going to turn the corner this year, so far anything but.   That play versus Gabe Davis was borderline embarrassing, Elam looked totally outclassed and was very handsy.

 

If this trend continues, wait for the inevitable turn him into a safety thread, after all he does have the size.

[Virgil]

Alllen had a nice semi-deep ball to Diggs that went right past Tre.  Tre was pissed, but beautiful pass and catch 

[GoBills808]

45 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I dunno about that.  His 2nd season, 2018, Jones had 56 catches for 652 yards.  2.9% drops.  I don't think we moved him because we thought he couldn't play, I think we moved him because his "haid" was messed up and not in the game. 

 

And we weren't wrong - it took him 4 years and 2 teams to get back to that level of production.

 

I also think we believed Hodgins could play.  Beane just made a hard, and in hindsignt, bad choice, when faced with a roster numbers crunch at DB.  I do think this might be the kind of decision where McDermott being a defensive HC comes into play; he seems more protective of keeping bodies on defense than on offense, and we 100% could have used Hodgins once Kumerow went on IR.

That's true about Jones

 

I always thought Hodgins was going to make the roster every year...might have gotten unlucky w injuries but seemed even to people on the outside he had enough talent to play

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

Gabe is going to have the season this year we all thought he'd have last year. 1000+ yds 

[SWATeam]

28 minutes ago, stevewin said:

Yeah kinda crazy for a reporter to report an int but not who actually got the int.  From other reports think it was Neal

It says Neal right in the Tweet

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, stevewin said:

I've said on here before the four practices I saw I didn't see Morris miss a catch

I think they'll run a good amount of 13 personnel and Know, Caid and Morris will be brutal on defenses

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Gabe is going to have the season this year we all thought he'd have last year. 1000+ yds 

If he's able to stay healthy, yes. 

[Virgil]

Whenever I go to a camp, it’s interesting to see how the starters act vs guys who have jobs locked up.   For example, you absolutely know Josh is our starting QB, even without seeing him throw.   It’s not a cocky thing, just how they interact and sometimes do their own thing.  
 

With that being said, Cook looks the part to me.  Murray did have a great day too, but Cook looks like a guy who knows he’s gonna be the man.  
 

Harry looks like a kid stole a jersey and snuck on the field in a bad Disney movie.  Dude is so tiny you worry he will get hurt.  
 

Shakir and Josh seem to have a pretty good relationship.  
 

Tons of swing passes and check down drills today.  

[Royale with Cheese]

33 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

He’s a rookie going against one of the best defensive lines in the league he’ll be ok. 

 

I understand.  But I can still wish I was reading better reports.  I'm hoping he is our day 1 starter and still has time to earn it.

 

It's just my thinking with how bad our line was last year, only one replacement with McGovern for Saffold...that doesn't give me a ton of confidence we will see very noticeable improvement.  I just really really want O'Cyrus to be get a hold of the RG position by the opener.

[Allen2Moulds]

1 hour ago, fergie's ire said:

Yeah, I think once you pay a franchise quarterback, given what the market has been for receivers lately, the best case scenario is to draft a receiver who is a good number 2 who you can develop into a 1 and then let him walk.  I was really hoping that Davis would ball out LAST year and we could've traded him as a 1 and gotten a haul....but just getting the comp pick might have to be enough.

 

In order for sustained success, you have to stagger the talent. Ideally, if Gabe has a monster year and plays like a 1, you pay and keep him. As his cap number kicks in, in 2025, you should be drafting another WR to replace the aging Diggs, who at that point should be your number 2. Kind of like Atlanta did, drafting Julio to replace Roddy White.

Same with CB1/CB2.

Elam is suppose to supplant Tre, in 2 to 3 years, as Tre starts to fade, and Elam hits his prime. But of course if we miss, we are using more draft capital on the same positions again. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Regarding the "should we pay Gabe?" talk...

It's the reason a lot of folks wanted the Bills to draft a round 1 or 2 receiver this year. That way, if said rookie looked the part, they could let Gabe walk and spend the money elsewhere. 

That said, obviously the board just didn't fall that way, and they wound up taking an impact pass catcher at a different position. I'm fine with that, and I understand their line of thinking. HOWEVER....it doesn't really alleviate the "what do you do about Gabe Davis?" question.

As for the notion someone floated earlier about drafting a WR reasonably high every year like the Steelers and churning through them as a matter of organizational practice...I'd be fine with that IF this Bills front office had shown any hint yet that they now how to find and cultivate WR talent. As far as I can tell, Gabe is their only WR "find" in the draft to date. Different organizations have different positional draft strengths. The Steelers seem to know how to find and cultivate WR talent. The Bills have not shown that they do.

We did draft first round receiver this year
He’s just extremely big receiver

[JerseyBills]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Beasley and Brown in 2020 absolutely…and even initially Sanders in 2021 before falling off a cliff and then Beasley being a shell of himself as well…. Who since then? The lack of investment has since caught up with them. Hopefully Kincaid is the answer right out the gate. 

Good point but adding Harty and Sherfield I believe will be big moves. I feel both are better than McKenzie our #3 WR last year and Harty especially,  he took less $ to come here and had alot of teams interested in him in FA, allegedly.. His speed will add an element that the O been missing 

[The Wiz]