Herbert deal signed : 262M - 5 yrs extension

[Doc Brown]

9 minutes ago, nucci said:

No, he's not. He signed  market value at the time and will sign a bigger deal next time which will put him at the top of the scale....until the next QB signs....kind of a pattern for QBs in the NFL

True but the length of the contract is what makes Allen's a "steal."  His deal was essentially eight years (six year extension with two years left on rookie deal).  Herbert's is seven.  Hurts's was six.  Lamar's and Watson's was five years.  Mahomes's 12 year commitment is the biggest steal in the league.

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, nucci said:

No, he's not. He signed  market value at the time and will sign a bigger deal next time which will put him at the top of the scale....until the next QB signs....kind of a pattern for QBs in the NFL

 

Agree and it really depends on year on year cap allocation. Allen is $18.5m on our cap this year. That is a bargain. He is scheduled to be $47m on our cap next year, that's less of a bargain (though I suspect another restructure will happen). Herbert will be a bargain for the next two years, then the cap hits will escalate and the Chargers will need to manage that year to year the way the Bills do with Allen and Chiefs do with Mahomes. And that is where I think Buffalo, KC and Baltimore (if you want to include Lamar in this) have an advantage over Cincinnati and the Chargers.... because the latter two have owners not known for spending money who I think are more likely to baulk at throwing up front money at their guy year after year after year to convert salary to bonus to free up cap space to improve the roster around them. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by GunnerBill

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

True but the length of the contract is what makes Allen's a "steal."  His deal was essentially eight years (six year extension with two years left on rookie deal).  Herbert's is seven.  Hurts's was six.  Lamar's and Watson's was five years.  Mahomes's 12 year commitment is the biggest steal in the league.

 

There were rumours about Mahomes agitating for a new deal in February and March. He ultimately came out and killed them, but they came from somewhere. Will be interesting to see when a formal re-negotiation (not just restructures) takes place. After 2025 (a year ahead of Allen) would be my guess. If it comes earlier that might have a knock on effect for us. 

[Bob Jones]

Nobody is worth that much. Owners are dumb saps.

[Irv]

Anybody find it odd that he had to get the extra .5?  

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

12 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Highest per year ($52.5 mill) QB.  Allen is a steal

Beane's deal is looking better all the time

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Nobody is worth that much. Owners are dumb saps.

He’s actually worth more than that.  These guys have a unique skill that only a few people on the planet posses and that skill happens to generate a lot of publicity and money for franchises. Player values are artificially deflated by the salary cap. With the combination of his contract and commercial agreements with the club, Ronaldo is making over 200 million per year in Saudi. Without the cap, that’s what NFL QB contracts would look like. What’s Mahones worth in an upcapped world? 

[nucci]

14 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Nobody is worth that much. Owners are dumb saps.

Based on the money the owners make from these players, many are worth it. 

[Bob Jones]

7 minutes ago, nucci said:

Based on the money the owners make from these players, many are worth it. 

Please explain this take. Dont the owners make most of their money from TV and media contracts, and it doesn’t matter whether their team sucks or they are a top contender? Don’t teams that suck still have pretty good attendance? Didn’t the Bills have good attendance during the 17 year playoff drought?

[JoPoy88]

Burrow’s deal is going to be massive.

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Please explain this take. Dont the owners make most of their money from TV and media contracts, and it doesn’t matter whether their team sucks or they are a top contender? Don’t teams that suck still have pretty good attendance? Didn’t the Bills have good attendance during the 17 year playoff drought?

They make the money from TV contracts because TV networks know millions watch games because of the players. Not sure your point on attendance though. Networks don't really care about that. Just people watching on TV

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Please explain this take. Dont the owners make most of their money from TV and media contracts, and it doesn’t matter whether their team sucks or they are a top contender? Don’t teams that suck still have pretty good attendance? Didn’t the Bills have good attendance during the 17 year playoff drought?

Yes, but they still spent the same amount overall relative to the salary cap during the drought years.  The individual player contracts are simply accounting and apportionment of resources.  Given that the cap is a pre-determined percentage of revenue, it makes very little difference how that cap is divided up.  The only real exception to this is the amount of money that has to be either paid up front or put into escrow accounts as guarantees.  

[Bob Jones]

Just now, nucci said:

They make the money from TV contracts because TV networks know millions watch games because of the players. Not sure your point on attendance though. Networks don't really care about that. Just people watching on TV

Right, they watch MNF, or TNF, or SNF, or the “Game of the Week” pretty much even if the teams suck. So again, owners get paid in any case. Has there ever been a year where the networks new TV contracts’ costs were LESS than the previous contracts? Has the price of SB commercials ever gone down?

 

The point about attendance is that if you sell out every game, logically, an owner is going to make more money in tik sales and parking, and concessions vs if their attendance is low. But I’m saying that they come close to selling out every game, even if their team sucks, like the Bills did for 17 years, for example, so they (owners) STILL make bank.

[Ya Digg?]

45 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Nobody is worth that much. Owners are dumb saps.

 

19 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Please explain this take. Dont the owners make most of their money from TV and media contracts, and it doesn’t matter whether their team sucks or they are a top contender? Don’t teams that suck still have pretty good attendance? Didn’t the Bills have good attendance during the 17 year playoff drought?

So are you saying the players shouldn’t make that much and the owners should pocket even more? I’m genuinely not understanding your take 

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Right, they watch MNF, or TNF, or SNF, or the “Game of the Week” pretty much even if the teams suck. So again, owners get paid in any case. Has there ever been a year where the networks new TV contracts’ costs were LESS than the previous contracts? Has the price of SB commercials ever gone down?

 

The point about attendance is that if you sell out every game, logically, an owner is going to make more money in tik sales and parking, and concessions vs if their attendance is low. But I’m saying that they come close to selling out every game, even if their team sucks, like the Bills did for 17 years, for example, so they (owners) STILL make bank.

I agree with all you are saying. I just disagree with you saying owners are dumb saps for giving big contracts to  franchise QBs. Burrow contract will be similar or larger than Herbert's

[Bill from NYC]

I think that the NFLPA will at some point agree a cap on QB salaries. They capped the rookies to help veteran players and it didn't work, whereas most (if not almost all) of the money went specifically to QBs. At the rate things are going they will soon make 100 million per season.

 

The contracts given to Herbert and Hurts (and I suppose 90 year old Rogers) are just insane. I am not a financial expert but as a layman, I cannot see how the current system can last. Maybe it can and the QB salaries will continue unbridled escalation, but it does seem like the RBs and some other players (the off. lineman on Dallas) are getting pissed off.

 

Anyway, just a preseason thought as the season approaches.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

45 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Burrow’s deal is going to be massive.

I agree the Burrow contract will be huge. However, I think you're going to see less in guaranteed money than most people want to think. 

 

Burrow isn't stupid. He knows that his best path to success is keeping his WR core intact. I'm willing to bet he will take less in guaranteed cash knowing that the Brown Family is cash strapped/frugal. This allows them to put some of that money in escrow for Higgins and soon Chase to stay. 

 

A top tier QB is going to see almost every dime of their contract because barring injury that alters their career or a shocking drop off of talent teams aren't moving on from them.  He's got time to take a bit less in guaranteed money now and parlay that into more down the road. 

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that the NFLPA will at some point agree a cap on QB salaries. They capped the rookies to help veteran players and it didn't work, whereas most (if not almost all) of the money went specifically to QBs. At the rate things are going they will soon make 100 million per season.

 

The contracts given to Herbert and Hurts (and I suppose 90 year old Rogers) are just insane. I am not a financial expert but as a layman, I cannot see how the current system can last. Maybe it can and the QB salaries will continue unbridled escalation, but it does seem like the RBs and some other players (the off. lineman on Dallas) are getting pissed off.

 

Anyway, just a preseason thought as the season approaches.

 

Has the salary cap percentage allocated changed all that much in say the last 20 years? I honestly don’t know. 

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

Nobody is worth that much. Owners are dumb saps.

Yeah, real dumb. Stupid billionaires.

[Bob Jones]

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

Yeah, real dumb. Stupid billionaires.

LOL. Being rich doesn’t necessarily mean that you are smart, and NFL owners definitely fall in to this group. Exhibit A would be the recent Ocean Gate deep sea implosion, which killed some dumb rich guys. Most people…even poor ones…would not have gotten inside that death trap for free, let alone paid $250k for the trip.

 

And there are countless other examples, throughout history which demonstrate the same principle. Why do filthy rich people sometimes kill themselves by OD ing on drugs? Are they smart to do that?

[SCBills]

NFL has a salary cap but a perfect illustration of the differences in owners..

 

Talk of Burrow needing to take less in guaranteed money because his owner doesn’t have the ability to keep enough money in escrow to play cap games in order to attempt to keep their Big 3 together, let alone guys like Boyd, Reader and their pass rushers.  
 

Meanwhile..
 

Jets owe Aaron Rodgers over 100M next year.  Obviously they’re not paying that, and will likely spread the hit out over void years.. 

 

Pegula seemingly gives Beane a blank check to any, and everything, under the cap. 

[Ya Digg?]

24 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I agree the Burrow contract will be huge. However, I think you're going to see less in guaranteed money than most people want to think. 

 

Burrow isn't stupid. He knows that his best path to success is keeping his WR core intact. I'm willing to bet he will take less in guaranteed cash knowing that the Brown Family is cash strapped/frugal. This allows them to put some of that money in escrow for Higgins and soon Chase to stay. 

 

A top tier QB is going to see almost every dime of their contract because barring injury that alters their career or a shocking drop off of talent teams aren't moving on from them.  He's got time to take a bit less in guaranteed money now and parlay that into more down the road. 

But it’s not Burrow’s job or responsibility to take less money to make things work. That’s up to the GM (who also makes a lot of money) and his guys to figure out. It’s also up to the billionaire owner to have enough money to pay these guys. As fans of these teams obviously we want to the team to have enough money to sign as many good players as possible, but people need to realize that it’s not up to the players to make that happen 

[Beast]

11 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

LOL. Being rich doesn’t necessarily mean that you are smart, and NFL owners definitely fall in to this group. Exhibit A would be the recent Ocean Gate deep sea implosion, which killed some dumb rich guys. Most people…even poor ones…would not have gotten inside that death trap for free, let alone paid $250k for the trip.

 

And there are countless other examples, throughout history which demonstrate the same principle. Why do filthy rich people sometimes kill themselves by OD ing on drugs? Are they smart to do that?

Yeah, stupid NFL billionaire owners. 
 

Your arguments are amusing.

[muppy]

so many millions so little time.😗

 

The salaries of these elite athletes to me are mind boggling. So Much Money........whoa. Yeah I could scrape by it's a burden but someone has to do it

 

lol

[BuffaloBillyG]

14 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

But it’s not Burrow’s job or responsibility to take less money to make things work. That’s up to the GM (who also makes a lot of money) and his guys to figure out. It’s also up to the billionaire owner to have enough money to pay these guys. As fans of these teams obviously we want to the team to have enough money to sign as many good players as possible, but people need to realize that it’s not up to the players to make that happen 

And yet...players do make that happen. There are a ton of cases where a player could really cash in and takes a touch less to help field a team around him. Especially when their own success is tied into the skill of the players around them. Now, I'm not saying that Burrow is going to sign for $20M a year and only $50M guaranteed. He will get his. But I'm not going to be shocked if he takes less than he probably should to keep his WR core intact for as long as possible.

[Bill from NYC]

56 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Has the salary cap percentage allocated changed all that much in say the last 20 years? I honestly don’t know. 

Great question. I honestly don't know.  I do however remember the owners (and players) being angry at QBs like Jamarcus Russell and Sam Bradford getting contracts for 50 - 60 million coming out of college. Granted, Herberts and Hurts have proven to be very good players, but if I was an owner I would be afraid of them getting hurt and having to give them 50 million or so.

 

Watson's contract is fully guaranteed as I recall. If he goes down this year, would the owner be on the hook for 200 million or so? It makes me wonder just how much money these owners have. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Great question. I honestly don't know.  I do however remember the owners (and players) being angry at QBs like Jamarcus Russell and Sam Bradford getting contracts for 50 - 60 million coming out of college. Granted, Herberts and Hurts have proven to be very good players, but if I was an owner I would be afraid of them getting hurt and having to give them 50 million or so.

 

Watson's contract is fully guaranteed as I recall. If he goes down this year, would the owner be on the hook for 200 million or so? It makes me wonder just how much money these owners have. 

to me, the economics of the NFL are fascinating. It’s truly where rubber meets the road in terms of positional value and risk management. 

 

I think I saw that Derek Carr’s giant contract a few years back was 17% of the cap at the time of signing. Herbert’s new one is in the low 20’s, depending on the year. That doesn’t seem super crazy to me. Especially as the cap goes up. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

I remember when we signed rob johnson to $25m/5 years and it was crazy. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

I remember when we signed rob johnson to $25m/5 years and it was crazy. 

And in retrospect, what a deal we got!

Herbert: the Rams have owned the LA market since the Chargers moved north. But the fate of the franchises is about to change. Fans like exciting QBs! This year it'll be Herbert vs. the carcass of Stafford, with a healthy serving of Stetson Bennett or Brett Rypien ...

[Brand J]

Even as the cap goes up, the QB salary has risen from about 13% of the cap in the early 2000s to now in the 20s. As the NFL has transformed into a QB dependent passing league, the value is reflected in the numbers. The only way it’ll start to become more equitable, where the lowest paid positions are given more, is if someone like Burrow takes a massive discount to help spread the wealth. Won’t happen though as I can’t see any of these QBs willingly taking 10s of millions less for his team to be more competitive. 

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

For this millionth time, this is not how it works at all. Unless you are going to do this for every top qb that gets signed. “Wow, Dan Marino is a steal!”

 

and he is a stud but it’s funny how Lamar Jackson gets crushed for not winning enough while everyone loves Herbert. 

 

not me bro!

 

 I mean they had to pay this guy whatever.  But not exactly eye of the tiger right there...

 

1 playoff game where he and his team choked away a 20 point halftime lead....to Trevor Lawrence (despite his 4 ints)!!  After going up 27-0, here are all of the Chargers subsequent possessions: punt, FG, punt, end of half, punt, FG, missed FG, punt.

 

Tons of yards and TDs (regular season) though...

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Mr. WEO

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Please explain this take. Dont the owners make most of their money from TV and media contracts, and it doesn’t matter whether their team sucks or they are a top contender? Don’t teams that suck still have pretty good attendance? Didn’t the Bills have good attendance during the 17 year playoff drought?

youre looking at this way too short term, like the league might fold by 2030 lol not to mention they have to spend it one way or another. they going to improve their value by handing other positions that $$? but yes, the billionaires are certainly the dumb ones 🤣

Edited July 26, 2023 by BillsShredder83

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

But it’s not Burrow’s job or responsibility to take less money to make things work. That’s up to the GM (who also makes a lot of money) and his guys to figure out. It’s also up to the billionaire owner to have enough money to pay these guys. As fans of these teams obviously we want to the team to have enough money to sign as many good players as possible, but people need to realize that it’s not up to the players to make that happen 

Exactly. It’s annoying to deal with as a fan, but I’ll never fault someone for holding out and getting as much as they can. 

[wjag]

With each one of these deals, the NFL's QB with the top salary stands for Not For Long...  I remember when Kelly signed his then top salary of 5M/yr and we were all wowed by the number.  5M bonuses are now thrown around as stat achievements.  Crazy.  

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

I remember when we signed rob johnson to $25m/5 years and it was crazy. 

I remember when Jim Kelly was the highest paid player in the NFL when he was getting $1.6 million per season. 

[SCBills]

Bengals already letting other guys set the market with Burrow, although some reports are that Burrow isn't ready to sign anything. 

 

Let's all hope Justin Jefferson signs before Ja'Marr Chase as well...

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

I remember when we signed rob johnson to $25m/5 years and it was crazy. 

Well, it WAS!  On a number of levels. 🤨

[Moulds_80]

17 hours ago, buffblue said:

Herbert has all the tools you need. There's just something about him that screams lack of fire/determination to be great. Maybe I'm biased, or maybe it's because I watched him become the definition of Charlie Checkdown last year.

 

Scorned Fantasy Owner

I also suffered at the hand of Herbert in fantasy...i dont dislike him tho, kinda like him.  

 

However, one of my good friends is a chargers die hard and has said almost verbatim what you said.  Being in mahomes division, you have to have that extra spiciness because, like the rest of the AFC east during brady, making the playoffs is even harder without a auto bid for division winners 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

And yet...players do make that happen. There are a ton of cases where a player could really cash in and takes a touch less to help field a team around him. Especially when their own success is tied into the skill of the players around them. Now, I'm not saying that Burrow is going to sign for $20M a year and only $50M guaranteed. He will get his. But I'm not going to be shocked if he takes less than he probably should to keep his WR core intact for as long as possible.

 

His cap hit next year already jumps from 11.5M to 29.5.  Can probably convert some of it to a bonus and spread it across the deal, but the new money probably starts at probably 50M per year.  

 

You can take less when you're a bit older and you've comfortably made more money than you can probably even spend.  But the first deal out of the rookie contract is when you chase a bag.  

[K-9]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

Has the salary cap percentage allocated changed all that much in say the last 20 years? I honestly don’t know. 

Individual teams must spend a minimum of 89% of the cap on players over a four year period. The league as a whole must spend at least 95% over that period.