Why did Isaiah McKenzie fail as starting Slot WR?

[boyst]

3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Proof he can catch.

 

 

That trips stacking we would do was amazing. We barely used it but it was so successful. I can't figure out why we abandoned things that worked every week.

[Snappysnackcakes]

Watch the hands!

When he completely dropped the kickoff return without contact, his time in Buffalo getting any meaningful PT came to a close. He couldn’t be trusted. 

 

And it sucks because he’s exactly the kind of person everyone wants to pull for…especially in Buffalo. 

Auto fill got me

Edited June 2, 2023 by Snappysnackcakes

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

What those clips actually showed is how valuable Brian Daboll is.

 

I forgot how well he would scheme players open.

 

Like night and day from last season.

 

 

With regard to McKenzie.........he didn't do much when Daboll was with the Bills.    He was the same low IQ, clumsy idiot........which is why they wouldn't keep him on the field.   A dose of speed once in a while and then back on the shelf.   That's all he was worth.

 

And the lamenting of Daboll is .   He is just one of those hit or miss play callers.   His previous jobs his offenses were always ranked 30-32.........which is why he got fired so many times as an NFL OC.   As I've said many times.......he's a current day version of Mike Mularkey or Sam Wyche.   When it's good you think he's special.   When it's bad you want him fired out of a cannon because it's terrible.   Dorsey may or may not cut it.......time will tell........but they were more consistent offensively with less talent and more injuries last season than they had been with Daboll at the helm in 2021.    Certainly weren't any 6 point showings versus the worst team in football like Daboll in Jacksonville 2021.  

[Mr. WEO]

he had no honor, he had no code

[Rigotz]

I don’t know if this will make sense, but here’s the easiest way for me to summarize…

 

For great players, the game slows down during plays. They think faster, react faster, and instincts set in.

 

For Lil’ Dirty, that happened in exactly one game and the rest of the time, the game just seemed too fast for him. He was constantly tripping, dropping passes, and making huge mistakes when the pressure was highest. I wouldn’t want that on my team, as much as I love the guy and think he has raw tools.

[NickelCity]

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

He made some big mistakes…I wouldn’t call him awful.  They just needed more from him at slot WR and he didn’t deliver.

 

I watched the season again and, man, he was even worse than I remember. I stand by awful when situation/context is taken into consideration. 

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Proof he can catch.

 

 

 

Thank you for this. Hilarious.

 

While he DID have a career day against NE man coverage, including some truly great catches, this highlight reel doesn't quite have the shine it once teased. Should have included a reel of him against Miami in that week 17 laugher to drive the point home. 

[Richard Noggin]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

With regard to McKenzie.........he didn't do much when Daboll was with the Bills.    He was the same low IQ, clumsy idiot........which is why they wouldn't keep him on the field.   A dose of speed once in a while and then back on the shelf.   That's all he was worth.

 

And the lamenting of Daboll is .   He is just one of those hit or miss play callers.   His previous jobs his offenses were always ranked 30-32.........which is why he got fired so many times as an NFL OC.   As I've said many times.......he's a current day version of Mike Mularkey or Sam Wyche.   When it's good you think he's special.   When it's bad you want him fired out of a cannon because it's terrible.   Dorsey may or may not cut it.......time will tell........but they were more consistent offensively with less talent and more injuries last season than they had been with Daboll at the helm in 2021.    Certainly weren't any 6 point showings versus the worst team in football like Daboll in Jacksonville 2021.  

 

I don't have quite enough evidence to offer my unqualified assessment of Dorsey's play-calling, yet, but Daboll was SO bad at marrying the pass and the run and putting defensive players (esp. pass rushers) on their heels throughout a game. Just NO sequencing. It was always so deliberate and pre-meditated with him. He installed and built upon a really nice scheme of passing concepts, but often, to my eye, failed to keep things balanced in a way that helps offensive linemen, for example, do their jobs well.

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, Lagoon Blues said:

For the life of me I don't understand why we stopped doing the Jet Sweep with him

Well there was one specific thing that changed from 2021 to 2022 and it wasn't anything on the field.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

With regard to McKenzie.........he didn't do much when Daboll was with the Bills.    He was the same low IQ, clumsy idiot........which is why they wouldn't keep him on the field.   A dose of speed once in a while and then back on the shelf.   That's all he was worth.

 

And the lamenting of Daboll is .   He is just one of those hit or miss play callers.   His previous jobs his offenses were always ranked 30-32.........which is why he got fired so many times as an NFL OC.   As I've said many times.......he's a current day version of Mike Mularkey or Sam Wyche.   When it's good you think he's special.   When it's bad you want him fired out of a cannon because it's terrible.   Dorsey may or may not cut it.......time will tell........but they were more consistent offensively with less talent and more injuries last season than they had been with Daboll at the helm in 2021.    Certainly weren't any 6 point showings versus the worst team in football like Daboll in Jacksonville 2021.  

 

Nah, Daboll is legit.

He proved that when he turned that terrible QB of the Giants into a decent player.

[Doc Brown]

Scouting report weaknesses via nfl.com.  Just couldn't overcome them and the Bills backup plan (Crowder) broke his leg so they were more or less stuck with him.

 

Diminutive frame

Arm tackles can end his run immediately

Has small hands and a minimal catch radius

Body catcher allows the ball to bang against his frame

Shows below average hand-eye coordination and overall concentration 

Contested catches are an issue for him

Routes lack sharpness expected from smaller, quicker wideout

Takes time to gather into his breaks and is slow to accelerate out of them

Able to uncover vertically much better than horizontally and struggles to uncover in short area

Production bolstered by jet sweeps and swing screens

[Process]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

I actually think this sums it up. 
 

Clearly capable of being great, but he simply could NOT be consistent. 
 

And from my couch, it looked like a lack of focus.  
 

Perhaps he was overthinking or trying to anticipate too much.  Who knows?

 

I will say that I don’t think it was a lack of effort, care or work ethic. 
 

I enjoyed him as a Bill and I hope he has a great career. 

Clearly capable of being great? He's had over 300 yards once in 6 seasons. 

 

He's just not a good football player, by NFL standards. No need to overcomplicate it. Had no business being a starting slot WR. That's on Beane, not him. 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, folz said:

He could make some plays in the slot against man coverage because of his speed, but he wasn't good against the zone, finding the spots and making himself available for his QB. He didn't have that knack/feel that most good slots like Beasley, Crowder, etc. have against zone coverage. If Crowder stayed healthy, they might have been a good tandem, but McKenzie couldn't do it on his own. Teams knew how to cover/eliminate him. 

 

And I think Josh lost some faith in him as the season wore on as well.

 

Agreed.  Beane said that the Bills drafted Kincaid because they needed someone to work the middle of the field.  He added that Crowder was supposed to do that job last year but got hurt.  Reading between the lines, it seemed to me he was saying McKenzie couldn't effectively work the middle as the slot guy.  Supports what folz said.  

 

 

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, Process said:

Clearly capable of being great? He's had over 300 yards once in 6 seasons. 

 

He's just not a good football player, by NFL standards. No need to overcomplicate it. Had no business being a starting slot WR. That's on Beane, not him. 

He wasn’t a WR1 or a WR2. 
 

Did you expect him to get 1000 yards/season?

 

I’m not overcomplicating anything. 
 

Your personal bias seems to be the problem here. 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, NickelCity said:

 

I watched the season again and, man, he was even worse than I remember. I stand by awful when situation/context is taken into consideration. 

I don’t get what you mean by situation/context.  Give me some examples…

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Is this more like a thread to make excuses for him?… pretty sound and accurate that you seem to want to rebuttal.

Not at all… he clearly didn’t work out.  I’m just wondering what happened - is it Isaiah?  Or was it the way he used being used?

[Jay_Fixit]

By not being good at it.

[Process]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

He wasn’t a WR1 or a WR2. 
 

Did you expect him to get 1000 yards/season?

 

I’m not overcomplicating anything. 
 

Your personal bias seems to be the problem here. 

No I didn't expect that. But I'm not the one that said he's "clearly" capable of being great lol. In six years He's never come close to showing that. Forget great the guy is a fringe NFL player. That's why he just signed a 1 year deal at the NFL minimum.

 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I think it’s interesting they have paid Harty twice as much as Dirty,,,

 

They must be quite high on him..

 

It will indeed be interesting to see what they get out of Harty, and yes, they paid him quite a lot of their limited FA budget (not quite twice what McK earned last season, but significantly more)

 

Whatever folks say about McKenzie not being able to catch, the facts are he caught 64.6% of the passes listed as targeting him (2nd on the Bills team to Diggs and 15 percentage points higher than Shakir for whom folks here clamored).  He was durable - missed something like 2 games due to injury in the last 3 seasons. 

 

Harty has a better catch % over his career, but he's missed something like 25 games over the last 3 seasons.  So I don't know what we'll see.

 

I've gotten "thumb down" or X'd in another thread for pointing out that Beane has a bit of a track record for spending significant $$ of a limited budget on potentially high-ceiling contributors who have not worked out - Corey Coleman, OJ Howard etc. 

 

I just hope Deonte Harty isn't this year's version.  (Note that I'm not suggesting we should have kept McKenzie, who clearly wasn't able to be on the same page as Josh against zone for whatever reason)

Edited June 2, 2023 by Beck Water

[NewEra]

Idk why, but he’s too dam small and his arms to too dam short to be a good target.

 

nice guy though 

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Agreed.  Beane said that the Bills drafted Kincaid because they needed someone to work the middle of the field.  He added that Crowder was supposed to do that job last year but got hurt.  Reading between the lines, it seemed to me he was saying McKenzie couldn't effectively work the middle as the slot guy.  Supports what folz said. 

 

I think there's a bit of revisionist history or at least edited history by Beane there.  They clearly expected McKenzie and Crowder to compete for snaps in the slot last season.  Going into the season Beane talked as though McKenzie had earned a shot at the slot role.

 

McKenzie said he was open against zone and Josh wouldn't throw to him.  I think that's true.  At least in part, I think that's because Josh simply didn't trust McKenzie to 1) read the defense and run the route option Josh expected him to run as Josh expected him to run it - he could be open, but if he's open doing something different than Josh expects, as Beasley said "there will be a lot of interceptions" so Josh wouldn't take that risk 2) run the routes with the proper shape and timing 3) make it "his ball or no one's ball", especially if the throw were a bit off-target.
 

McKenzie's biggest flaw as a receiver IMO was his persistent tendency to body-catch.  As we saw in Miami with Josh's interception off Beasley, it's dangerous to try to body-catch in traffic; if the ball is deflected, it can very well be picked.

 

I also had the impression that he had a bit of the "mule trained with loving kindness" about him, in that it took A Lot to get him to listen to feed back and make changes.

 

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Idk why, but he’s too dam small and his arms to too dam short to be a good target.

 

nice guy though 

 

Mmm, that would be why Beane paid more money to Deonte Harty, who is like an inch shorter and has slightly shorter arms?    Because he's too damned short to be a good target?

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Beck Water

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think there's a bit of revisionist history or at least edited history by Beane there.  They clearly expected McKenzie and Crowder to compete for snaps in the slot last season.  Going into the season Beane talked as though McKenzie had earned a shot at the slot role.

 

McKenzie said he was open against zone and Josh wouldn't throw to him.  I think that's true.  At least in part, I think that's because Josh simply didn't trust McKenzie to 1) read the defense and run the route option Josh expected him to run as Josh expected him to run it - he could be open, but if he's open doing something different than Josh expects, as Beasley said "there will be a lot of interceptions" so Josh wouldn't take that risk 2) run the routes with the proper shape and timing 3) make it "his ball or no one's ball", especially if the throw were a bit off-target.
 

McKenzie's biggest flaw as a receiver IMO was his persistent tendency to body-catch.  As we saw in Miami with Josh's interception off Beasley, it's dangerous to try to body-catch in traffic; if the ball is deflected, it can very well be picked.

 

Mmm, that would be why Beane paid more money to Deonte Harty, who is like an inch shorter and has slightly shorter arms?    Because he's too damned short to be a good target?

 

It doesn’t have anything to do with Beane.

 

name two successful WR’s in nfl history that are mckenzies height and arm length.    Name one?  
 

I’ll save you some time.  In the history of the NFL there are no successful WRs with dirtys dimensions. Check mate my friend 

 

edit:  I’m a fan of Harty and I expect him to make some big plays for us…. But he was never signed to be our starting slot WR imo.  The likelihood of him staying healthy if he gets 100+ targets is very unlikely imo.  I expect him to play some outside (not just slot) and run a fair amount of outside/ deep routes. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by NewEra

[GoBills808]

4 hours ago, BillsFanInRaleigh said:

Because he trips over his feet more times than he catches the ball 

This

 

For a little speedy type the guy was just clumsy af

[John from Riverside]

I don’t think it’s so much that McKenzie can’t play in the NFL as it is that the bills were just looking for better
 

Whenever you have to bring back Cole Beasley because Josh Allen doesn’t have a comfort level with McKenzie in the slot you know that it’s time to move on

 

It will always be the real question to me, as why, shakur was not given more of an opportunity to get a stranglehold on that spot. It seems like every time he got on the field good things happened.

 

I think he’s gonna beat this year and the bills are gonna have a good problem

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

It doesn’t have anything to do with Beane.

 

name two successful WR’s in nfl history that are mckenzies height and arm length.    Name one?  
 

I’ll save you some time.  In the history of the NFL there are no successful WRs with dirtys dimensions. Check mate my friend 

 

edit:  I’m a fan of Harty and I expect him to make some big plays for us…. But he was never signed to be our starting slot WR imo.  The likelihood of him staying healthy if he gets 100+ targets is very unlikely imo.  I expect him to play some outside (not just slot) and run a fair amount of outside/ deep routes. 

 

Wes Walker and Steve Smith were both 5'9" - not appreciably bigger than Lil Dirty.

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Wes Walker and Steve Smith were both 5'9" - not appreciably bigger than Lil Dirty.

 

Steve Smith was a larger body frame and way more physical then McKenzie

[The Jokeman]

10 hours ago, BillsFanInRaleigh said:

Because he trips over his feet more times than he catches the ball 

This sounds like James Cook.

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

It doesn’t have anything to do with Beane.

 

name two successful WR’s in nfl history that are mckenzies height and arm length.    Name one?  

Cole Beasley?

[GunnerBill]

Just wasn't up to the job. I don't think the Bills ever quite got it right with Isaiah. I think they underused him at times under Dabes and then overused him last season. He is a gadget / gimmick guy who can be a valuable piece when you play heavy man coverage teams. No surprise his two biggest Bills performances came against the Dolphins under Flores and the Patriots. Both teams that played more man than most NFL teams. 

[Lagoon Blues]

7 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Well there was one specific thing that changed from 2021 to 2022 and it wasn't anything on the field.

Sarcasm noted.  Maybe it was just my perception but the net gain seemed to be positive on those plays more often than not.  Would have thought Ken would have kept aspects that worked instead of abandoning completely.  Just my opinion of course.

[frostbitmic]

Lapses in concentration at times seemed to be an issue.

 

Good guy though and I wish him well in Indy.

[DasNootz]

Every 7-8th grade basketball team has a guy like him - someone athletically gifted that burns by the opponents in the open court and misses the layup.  He will occasionally make a spectacular play while routinely not taking advantage of the everyday play.  I'm not sure if it's preparation, focus/discipline but given the opportunity, he didn't take advantage of it fully.

[JerseyBills]

13 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I think it’s interesting they have paid Harty twice as much as Dirty,,,

 

They must be quite high on him..

Harty apparently rejected higher paying offers, multiple teams, to play here.  I love the film on him,  and expect him to make a big name for himself here

He adds another dimension to the O with his speed and is overall a much better WR than Lil Dirty 

 

Have very high expectations for him in this o

[gonzo1105]

The problem is the Bills don't have a ton of speed at WR and teams try to mitigate the big plays by the Bills offense. That means that a lot of teams play a plethora of two high safety/zone looks to make the Bills matriculate the ball down the field.  

 

This is not McKenzie's strength. His strength is playing against man to man coverage and his best games as a WR came against such. When he was forced to sit in zones or find openings that mitigates his greatest strength(his speed) and he just isn't good at it. Its a feel for whats going on around you to find open spaces in zone defenses. McKenzie didn't have that trait.

 

He also has average to below average hands which are vital for a slot WR. Its always been a curse for him even when he was with the Broncos in the preseason muffing and fumbling punt returns and you could see that residual here with the Bills still. I also think Allen lost faith in him midway through last season after the dropping/fumbling/tripping that he did early in the season. 

[BuffaloMatt]

One word- PODCAST. 

[JohnNord]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

One word- PODCAST. 

I’ve listened to just about all of his podcasts with Tyler Dunne.  He presented it as though he was open and doing his job - Josh just wasn’t throwing to him 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Drops, bad route runner, and had trouble identifying man vs zone coverage.  At times, it looked like he didn't know what he was doing on the play.  When two receivers ended up being too close together on their routes, McKenzie was usually one of them.  Had Crowder not been injured, McKenzie would have been a regular inactive on game day or even cut.

[Big Turk]

Inconsistency. Inability to effectively beat zone coverage. Inability to sell his routes properly at the top...too many rounded routes.

[The Wiz]

18 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said:

Sarcasm noted.  Maybe it was just my perception but the net gain seemed to be positive on those plays more often than not.  Would have thought Ken would have kept aspects that worked instead of abandoning completely.  Just my opinion of course.

He should have keep it.  That's the really frustrating part about it.  It probably worked 9 times out of 10 for getting the same amount of yards, or better, than handing it off.

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Wes Walker and Steve Smith were both 5'9" - not appreciably bigger than Lil Dirty.

 

 

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Cole Beasley?

McKenzie measured was 5’7 at the combine.  Maybe he grew?  🤷🏻‍♂️ 

 

I get your point, but I hope you also get my point.  Size DOES matter when you’re THAT small.  If it didn’t, there would be other successful 5’7 WRs