Hopkins released by Arizona (7/16: signed by Titans)

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The point is that the makeup of the Offense as a whole has us almost universally as the #2 Offense in the league. If the surrounding talent around Josh and Diggs were "garbage" as the guy I quoted likes to say, we wouldn't be that high. 

I see both sides of this debates.  But the bolded doesn’t really back your side of this argument imo.  The Bills offense WAS #2 last year and the surrounding talent around Josh and Diggs WAS garbage for the most part.  
 

That said-  I agree that we’ve upgraded big time with the addition of Kincaid.  I also love the Harty and Sherfield additions and see them an upgrades over Mckenzie and Kumerow.  Shakir in year should be improved.  Damien Harris gives us something we haven’t had under Mcadermott, a true north south power back with enough speed to hit the edge. 
 

I agree with you- our playmakers will prove to be better than last year- others want to see the baby, which is 💯 understandable.  We’ve seen our “potential upgrades” fail to be upgrades many times over the years.  I can’t blame them for waiting to see the results.  
 

I think Dorsey, the OL and health will have a bigger impact on whether or not these new “upgrades”  will prove to be just that.  

[SCBills]

The one argument that frustrates me beyond belief is the thought that KC could use him, but the Bills should have enough. 
 

The Chiefs have Kelce, a top 5 OL, paid for a Gabe Davis level WR and have a recent RD1, RD2 & RD2 WR they’ve invested in.  
 

Bills are coming off a year with a bottom 10 OL, have Diggs, Davis, Knox, a recent RD1 TE & a mid-level FA WR and then some lottery tickets. 
 

In my view, they are similar talent level offenses that have a good bit of potential left to be realized, but are very clearly behind the Bengals in terms of proven weapons.  

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I see both sides of this debates.  But the bolded doesn’t really back your side of this argument imo.  The Bills offense WAS #2 last year and the surrounding talent around Josh and Diggs WAS garbage for the most part.  
 

That said-  I agree that we’ve upgraded big time with the addition of Kincaid.  I also love the Harty and Sherfield additions and see them an upgrades over Mckenzie and Kumerow.  Shakir in year should be improved.  Damien Harris gives us something we haven’t had under Mcadermott, a true north south power back with enough speed to hit the edge. 
 

I agree with you- our playmakers will prove to be better than last year- others want to see the baby, which is 💯 understandable.  We’ve seen our “potential upgrades” fail to be upgrades many times over the years.  I can’t blame them for waiting to see the results.  
 

I think Dorsey, the OL and health will have a bigger impact on whether or not these new “upgrades”  will prove to be just that.  

Good points!

 

Not only all that.,..this franchise hasn't had a QB like Josh Allen in forever.  I suspect this season's offense will be even better than past offenses.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Again, you are completely dismissing each players last full seasons of football where they were given more opportunities than they ever had before and focusing on when they were Undrafted players working their way up rosters with stars in front of them.

 

And the general consensus? According to whom? You and a couple other posters on this thread? A quick Google search showed me these consensus about where the Offense ranks going into this season:

 

NFL.com - #3 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-10-offenses-in-2023-bills-chiefs-eagles-produce-highest-win-share-proj

 

Bleacher Report - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10075320-ranking-every-nfl-offense-after-the-2023-draft

 

Lines.com - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.lines.com/guides/nfl-offense-power-rankings/1615

 

Pro Football Network - #2 Ranked Offense in the NFL: https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-offense-rankings/

 

I am dismissing Harty's "last full season" because he missed basically all of last year after the week 2 turf toe injury that eventually required surgery and we have no idea if he will be the same player again that he was for those couple months in 2021.   He's been plagued by hamstring injuries......I can't remember seeing a player with as many hamstring re-injuries on his record..........and now a very serious turf toe.    Availability itself is a huge problem for him........his game is being outrageously good wrt speed and quickness.......if he loses any of that after all the injuries then what good is he as a 5'6" WR??

 

When the Bills signed Trent Murphy he had played to a 75+ pff grade and had 9 sacks and 10 TFL in his last full season in 2016.   It was an outlier season for his career but he had been an impact player for an entire season.  He joined the Bills after a year of recovery and played to a 57 rating with 4 sacks and was never the player again that he was in 2016.

 

You can't just write off the impact of injury on guys who have struggled to even find a window where they can excel in the NFL.   Harty had one solid(but still injury disrupted) season where he made some nice plays.   Otherwise nothing offensively.    See Robert Foster.   If all you look at are these guys highlights in their brief window of success then you think they were better players than they were or have been.    I could run down a long list of these guys.   Bills free agent history is littered with one hit wonders that they signed hoping to recapture that moment.   Remember Andre Holmes?

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Do you mean THE Robert Royal, the TE that other teams didn't even bother to cover when he ran patterns?  

 

Once at RWS at a tailgate I mentioned to you that Royal seemed to always be open. I thought that I was making an astute observation. You told me no, that the reason Royal was open was due to the fact that opposing teams didn't bother to cover him because his hands were just that bad. I admittedly didn't quite believe you. I had great seats at midfield in the upper deck in about the 3rd row and sure enough, there was Royal, flapping his arms all day by himself with zero coverage. When a ball was thrown his way he seemed to almost always drop it. 

 

Now, I am having a rough time believing that there were 14 free agents who were actually worse than Royal LOL! Would you happen to have a list?  

 

 

 

 

Among the UFA's they signed to above minimum deals(some quite generous to say the least) were.........DT Larry Triplett, DB Kiwaukee Thomas, C Melvin Fowler, RB Anthony Thomas, TE Robert Royal, WR Peerless Price, WR Andre' Davis, QB Craig Nall, G Tutan Reyes.    They also made a run at some RFA's........just negotiating the contract for those teams.......which was further idiocy.   Ultimately a bunch of guys they thought were just coming into their own as NFL players but were in hindsight all really just what they had proven to be......fringe, backup or bottom roster players.    They really thought they had hit the jackpot.......it was "the Patriot way" of free agency in their minds.    The Peerless Price one was actually the one most mocked by the league.........he was on the street with no offers and Marv paid him $2M.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Those aren't offensive weapon rankings and rightfully weigh the QB heavily.  The Chiefs and Bills are #1 and #2 overall because that's where they finished last year and it's hard to argue either got worse in terms of overall personnel.  Any "offensive weapon" rankings I've read have both of us around 10th with one elite weapon (Kelce and Diggs) with average depth behind them.

 

 

Bill Barnwell.........who is one of the more respected opinions and thorough analysts among NFL media.........had the Chiefs as 19th and the Bills 20th in terms of offensive weapons in his rankings a couple weeks ago.    There are A LOT of talented receivers in the NFL and smart teams saw what the Chiefs did loading up their receiving corps around Mahomes in 2018-2019(adding Watkins to Hill and Kelce then drafting Hardman)........and the Bills adding a Stef Diggs to a high quality WR2 in John Brown and a very good slot WR in Cole Beasley did for Josh Allen in 2020..........and they've been copying this ever since.    The Bengals went so far as to bypass a need at LT to add Jamar Chase to Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd(and it paid off with a SB run).  

 

Meanwhile the Bills have since been acting like they could get by with less.

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Actually the odds are that the veterans will continue to be the kind of players they've been over the course of their careers.........not that "2 of the 5" will be a lot better than their career averages.    It doesn't work that way.

 

Did you not live thru the offseason where Marv Levy and Dick Jauron signed 15 free agents who had been unable to excel anywhere in the NFL or in recent seasons and the best of the lot turned out to be the receiving inept Robert Royal?    Or Beane's 2018 class of free agents where he allocated $100M to contracts for a half dozen players who had once been solid starters but had been in steep decline or injured more recently and ALL of them turned out to be terrible signings?    There is not a law of averages associated with players who fail to excel or have injuries.    This isn't like flipping a coin.

 

But don't take my word for it..........the general consensus is that the Bills offensive weapons around Allen are mediocre.    And that's despite having Stefon Diggs and reasonable expectations for Dalton Kincaid as a rookie.   It's just not an impressive group of receivers.   I hope they play better in their continued reserve roles than their years of compiled stats indicate they are.   Maybe the Bills get lucky and defy the actual odds........but I am presuming the more likely outcome.

 

A veteran player's potential to improve significantly depends upon several things, probably his age, position, and his "fit" for the new team being the most important.  It's not uncommon for young veterans who played their first contracts as part-timers behind established veterans to blossom on other teams where they get the opportunity to start in an offensive or defensive system that fits their skill sets.   Think Jerry Hughes, Michah Hyde, and Jordan Poyer.   Sometimes, veterans just need an opportunity to play, too.  Think Fred Jackson who failed to catch on with the Bears, Broncos and Packers and wound up in NFL Europe before signing with the Bills and finally getting an opportunity to play.   Older veterans can sometimes improve, too, especially if they've been in a bad situation where they are used differently or feel better about the atmosphere, etc.    There's also no guarantee that bringing in a big name FA is going to pay immediate dividends.  In fact, there are numerous examples to show just the opposite, so teams need to do their homework to be sure that targets FAs truly fit.

 

What exactly constitutes your "general consensus" besides commentators, amateur and professional, who share your opinions about the Bills?

 

 

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Those aren't offensive weapon rankings and rightfully weigh the QB heavily.  The Chiefs and Bills are #1 and #2 overall because that's where they finished last year and it's hard to argue either got worse in terms of overall personnel.  Any "offensive weapon" rankings I've read have both of us around 10th with one elite weapon (Kelce and Diggs) with average depth behind them.

 

IMO, any team with a top level QB beyond his rookie contract, simply can't afford to have many other elite offensive players beyond their rookie contracts without depleting their defense of talent.

 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

A veteran player's potential to improve significantly depends upon several things, probably his age, position, and his "fit" for the new team being the most important.  It's not uncommon for young veterans who played their first contracts as part-timers behind established veterans to blossom on other teams where they get the opportunity to start in an offensive or defensive system that fits their skill sets.   Think Jerry Hughes, Michah Hyde, and Jordan Poyer.   Sometimes, veterans just need an opportunity to play, too.  Think Fred Jackson who failed to catch on with the Bears, Broncos and Packers and wound up in NFL Europe before signing with the Bills and finally getting an opportunity to play.   Older veterans can sometimes improve, too, especially if they've been in a bad situation where they are used differently or feel better about the atmosphere, etc.    There's also no guarantee that bringing in a big name FA is going to pay immediate dividends.  In fact, there are numerous examples to show just the opposite, so teams need to do their homework to be sure that targets FAs truly fit.

 

What exactly constitutes your "general consensus" besides commentators, amateur and professional, who share your opinions about the Bills?

 

 

 

IMO, any team with a top level QB beyond his rookie contract, simply can't afford to have many other elite offensive players beyond their rookie contracts without depleting their defense of talent.

 

And God forbid we deplete the defense of some of its talent 😂

[boyst]

I only ever keep thinking that my wish of getting christian Kirk... If only... If only 

[C.Biscuit97]

Might be time to retire these 100 page threads about receivers. Terrible track records.

[HappyDays]

It's over.

 

 

[JimBob2232]

Looks like this drama is finally over

[Chandler#81]

Our long, national nightmare is over.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

It's over.

 

 

 

 

At least it's not the Chiefs (obviously).

[GoBills808]

nooooooo

[Dablitzkrieg]

 

 

[PauleeeWalnuts]

And so it finally ends 

[Doc]

If it wasn’t to the Bills, this is the best destination. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

At least he's not in our division. Also who's going to throw the ball to him?

 

[ExWNYer]

Finally...Thank. The. Lord.

 

Enjoy your money, enjoy your losses.

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

If it wasn’t to the Bills, this is the best destination. 

Would have been funny if he went to the Packers

[Buffalo03]

The Patriots missed out to. I love it

[HappyDays]

In each of the past two seasons, there has been at least one game where a Gabe Davis drop directly led to a loss. One game was the difference in us having the #1 seed both years. My fear is that at the end of this season we will look back and see the same exact outcome because nobody replaced Davis as the #2 target.

 

At this point the realistic options to replace him as the #2 target are Kincaid hitting his stride by November, or trading for someone like Jerry Jeudy or Mike Evans before the trade deadline. If neither of these things happen and Davis is again the default #2 target, that is a major obstacle to overcome to win a Super Bowl.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

In each of the past two seasons, there has been at least one game where a Gabe Davis drop directly led to a loss. One game was the difference in us having the #1 seed both years. My fear is that at the end of this season we will look back and see the same exact outcome because nobody replaced Davis as the #2 target.

 

At this point the realistic options to replace him as the #2 target are Kincaid hitting his stride by November, or trading for someone like Jerry Jeudy or Mike Evans before the trade deadline. If neither of these things happen and Davis is again the default #2 target, that is a major obstacle to overcome to win a Super Bowl.

that is the unfortunate reality

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

Finally...Thank. The. Lord.

 

Enjoy your money, enjoy your losses.

These posts are funny to me. I mean if get it he’s a qb where scrubs like Daniel Jones make $40 million a year. But what do you think Shady McCoy cares about more - his 2 garbage rings or the money he made when he was a star player?

 

also, I’ve long thought Tannehill is butt cheeks but D’Hop’s whole career has been playing with butt cheek qbs. Vrabel is one of the best coaches in the nfl, they have possibly the best rb in football,  aren’t that far removed from a nice playoff run, play maybe in the worst division in the nfl, and are a tough matchup for us. 
 

better than him going to KC for sure but I won’t be shocked if the Titans make some noise this year despite butt cheeks Tannehill. 

3 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

The Patriots missed out to. I love it

Honestly, and know they are division rivals but I’d rather him go to the Pats. I think this takes the Titans up in the afc because of their garbage division. 

[KDIGGZ]

Lol what a bum!

[NyQuil]

Not in the AFC East or Chiefs. Best outcome.

[taglientep]

*****.   Really wanted him to sign w Buffalo 

[Success]

3 minutes ago, NyQuil said:

Not in the AFC East or Chiefs. Best outcome.

 

This, exactly.  I never expected the Bills to get him.  Going to the Titans is the next best thing to going to the NFC.

 

[Alphadawg7]

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

 

 

 

$12 million in year one.

 

The combined cap hits of Poyer, Settle, and Hines this year is $12,674,000. Or replace any of those 3 players with Neal or Harty to get the same result. Or just 2 of the mentioned players plus a restructure of White or Dawkins.

 

That's the frustrating part. This contract was easily manageable and it would have barely impacted our future cap situation beyond 2023.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by HappyDays

[ExWNYer]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

These posts are funny to me. I mean if get it he’s a qb where scrubs like Daniel Jones make $40 million a year. But what do you think Shady McCoy cares about more - his 2 garbage rings or the money he made when he was a star player?

 

also, I’ve long thought Tannehill is butt cheeks but D’Hop’s whole career has been playing with butt cheek qbs. Vrabel is one of the best coaches in the nfl, they have possibly the best rb in football,  aren’t that far removed from a nice playoff run, play maybe in the worst division in the nfl, and are a tough matchup for us. 
 

better than him going to KC for sure but I won’t be shocked if the Titans make some noise this year despite butt cheeks Tannehill. 

Honestly, and know they are division rivals but I’d rather him go to the Pats. I think this takes the Titans up in the afc because of their garbage division. 

 

Nobody should begrudged these guys getting their money when they can. I certainly don't. But let's call it like it is. Dude is nearing the end is chasing the bag, not a championship. If you really think that Tennessee is a legit contender despite playing in a weak division, you are delusional. I never thought he was coming to the Bills and I'm just glad this whole thing is finally over and done.

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

These posts are funny to me. I mean if get it he’s a qb where scrubs like Daniel Jones make $40 million a year. But what do you think Shady McCoy cares about more - his 2 garbage rings or the money he made when he was a star player?

 

also, I’ve long thought Tannehill is butt cheeks but D’Hop’s whole career has been playing with butt cheek qbs. Vrabel is one of the best coaches in the nfl, they have possibly the best rb in football,  aren’t that far removed from a nice playoff run, play maybe in the worst division in the nfl, and are a tough matchup for us. 
 

better than him going to KC for sure but I won’t be shocked if the Titans make some noise this year despite butt cheeks Tannehill. 

Honestly, and know they are division rivals but I’d rather him go to the Pats. I think this takes the Titans up in the afc because of their garbage division. 

 

He probably cares about both.  Hopkins has made $111.6M in his career just from football alone.  Two years likely brings him to the end of his career and also likely without a ring, garbage or otherwise. 

 

And the Titans will have to face the Jags, who many are touting as a contender.  It potentially helps knock them down a bit.

[NyQuil]

At least we can laugh at the pain of Patriots fans.

[The Wiz]

2 minutes ago, NyQuil said:

At least we can laugh at the pain of Patriots fans.

I really thought he was gonna go to the Pats.

[ngbills]

Sucks. Hopefully a #2 WR is not the missing piece to season while we watch Hopkins put up a 1,000+ yd season catching balls from Tannehill. 

[Doc]

Is Tannehill definitely the starter this coming season?

[billsfan89]

Would have liked Hopkins but It isn’t the end of the world, the Bills clearly liked what they had on the roster to not make a huge offer for Dhop. If the WR group needs a boost in season the team will have some options to address that via trade.

[mrags]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

$12 million in year one.

 

The combined cap hits of Poyer, Settle, and Hines this year is $12,674,000. Or replace any of those 3 players with Neal or Harty to get the same result. Or just 2 of the mentioned players plus a restructure of White or Dawkins.

 

That's the frustrating part. This contract was easily manageable and it would have barely impacted our future cap situation beyond 2023.

 

This right here x1,000,000,000,000

 

Could have had Hopkins for the price of Harty (a WR with the season bests = to McKenzie), Hines (a practically useless RB that will never see the field), and out 4th best DT that’s been extremely unimpressive. 
 

🤦‍♂️

[RiotAct]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Would have liked Hopkins but It isn’t the end of the world, the Bills clearly liked what they had on the roster to not make a huge offer for Dhop. If the WR group needs a boost in season the team will have some options to address that via trade.

yep.  I think the receiving corps is going to impress this season, helped in part by a stronger rushing attack.