Ross Tucker ranks NFL Coach’s, places McDermott at #22.

[NewEra]

18 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Ok, but McD has had Pro Bowl players at 10 positions (14 if you count McCoy, Kyle,  Sanders & Edmunds) in his 6 seasons -many as multiple PBers. It’s become safe to assume at least 3 players will be enshrined in Canton when their careers end. Should a team with this much accrued talent crash and burn every January when there’s a February game still waiting for the 2 best teams? 
 

22 is stupid considering all the newbies, but if does seem we’re further away than we’ve been and Sean’s ultra conservative approach is understandably seen as detrimental. 🤷‍♂️

He also proved that he could have success with a terrible roster (and an even worse OC).  
 

im not saying he’s great, but this list is a joke and not even close to fair.  It’s pure click bait for Bills Mafia

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I actually think he and Vrabel are comparable.  Consider the rosters Vrabel has had to work with, especially at QB.  McDermott has Josh Allen.  That masks a lot of his shortcomings.  With the same rosters, I believe you'd get similar results.

Vrabel had the best running back in the last 20 years and a handcrafted line to go with him. 

 

And responding to others, I actually never have thought the Bills had a great roster.  They have two great safeties BECAUSE of McDermott.  They had agreat pass defense with Levi Wallace as the #2 corner.   They have an underproductive d line today, and it was worse three years ago.  They haven't had a star running back, and we all know about the o line.  

 

This team wins because of McDermott, and that's why 22 is ridiculous.  

[mrags]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

To me, the argument made is why he shouldn’t not be top 10.  But not to be top 20.  That’s just insane.  
 

Yeah I think it’s pretty comical he’s so low. He’s been coach of one of the best teams in football for the past 4 years. He definitely deserves to be higher. I’d still like put him top 10 honestly, but on the lower end of it. And I understand arguments either way with him. 

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

You think it’s fair that Brandon Staley, Arthur Smith, McConnell and Mcdaniel should be ranked ahead of him?  There are more on the list that we can question….. but those 4 guys have no right at the moment 

 

 

 

Yeah this seems really subjective. What team doesn't lose games they "should win"? Even the Chiefs lost to the Colts and if Malik Willis could have literally done anything on offense would have lost to the Titans and probably should have lost to the Texans in OT.

 

McD is easily a top 10 coach. You don't have a franchise best winning percentage by being a bad coach. This should be common sense, but apparently is not.

 

They can talk about all the stuff he hasn't done but the hidden stuff that he HAS done that never really gets talked about is why the Bills have turned into a juggernaut.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Big Turk

[KCNC]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Losing winnable games in regular season that negatively impact playoff seeding and stinking up the joint once we get there have Sean ranked 10 from the bottom.

 

Frankly, that’s fair. Imo.
 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/nfl-head-coaching-rankings-which-teams-coach-reigns-supreme/

 

 22. Sean McDermott, Buffalo Bills

Seasons With Team: 6 | Head Coaching Record: 62-35

Analysis: He’s done a lot of winning and deserves credit for that but the combination of losing games against far inferior teams in the regular season, which hurts playoff seeding, and then getting outcoached in the postseason is troubling. It seems like it’s going to get harder, not easier, for this group of Bills to break through with a Super Bowl berth.

 

 

Can't argue too much, but seriously Dan Campbell ahead of him??   Didn't he like call two timeouts in a row a couple of years ago causing his team to lose a game or something?  Also, do not agree with Rivera in front of Sean.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

The assessment on the nature of his coaching tenure is fair. You could say the latter prognostication is true insofar as the AFC appears to be a monster conference with the bulk of franchise qbs, but I don't really concede that "this group of Bills" is automatically in a tougher position. The notion that we are not also improving or that we peaked, etc. is lazy thinking. Some much needed talent infusion along the IOL, adding Kincaid and revamping the Wr and Rb rooms, along with Dorsey in his second year at OC should contribute to a more powerful and less predictable offense that was statistically already one of the top teams. Theoretically, we might emerge as a more dangerous team to play, so that it is now harder, not easier for other AFC teams as well.

it’s simple math that we now are taking real qb cap hits so we have less other money to spend on talent. 
 

we will have to do more with less, which is possible but certainly more difficult by its very nature.

[FLFan]

This “analysis” by Tucker is pure clickbait and nothing more.  It reads like he put about 5 minutes of thought into it, which is 4 minutes more than I am going to give it.  

[GETTOTHE50]

saw the top ten and that thing is a joke.

[Cray51]

52 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Daboll won a playoff game in his first year and salvaged Daniel Jones career. In today's NFL offensive coaches are more valuable. Other than Belichick & McD, every successful coach came from the offense side of the ball.

Daniel Jones had 3200 yards this year with 15 TDs and 5 INTs.  That's great game manager material.  In McD's first season, Tyrod threw for just under 3K yards with 14 TDs and 4 INTs.  Does McD get credit for Tyrod having a good year as well?  Daniel Jones being a game manager doesn't make Daboll a top 10 coach.  Daboll went 9-7-1, with several comeback wins (which care some luck to achieve), and then beat the Vikings, who were the league's luckiest team by far.

 

I'm not saying Daboll isn't a good coach - he is top 20.  But to anoint him a top 10 coach in the league, and 14 spots above McD?  Give me a break that's just ridiculous.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah this seems really subjective. What team doesn't lose games they "should win"? Even the Chiefs lost to the Colts and if Malik Willis could have literally done anything on offense would have lost to the Titans and probably should have lost to the Texans in OT.

 

McD is easily a top 10 coach. You don't have a franchise best winning percentage by being a bad coach. This should be common sense, but apparently is not.

I thought he was around 8-10 last year.  This years injuries were too much to overcome, but the playoff performance Vs Cinci was dreadful.  That’s 2 out of 3 years that coached absolute stinkers in season ending losses.  The 13 second game, he coached fine…. Until he made the biggest coaching blunder in franchise history.  Making that 3 straight seasons in which season ending losses were on his head more than anyone else’s. 
 

jmo, but he’s right around 10 

 

Reid

belichick

shanahan

mcvay

tomlin

pederson

harbaugh

carroll

taylor

sirriani 

 

that’s my top 10 in no particular order except the last 2 are 9-10z. I’d put Taylor and Sirianni ahead of McD atm

 

If we put up another stinky stinker in a season ending afc playoff loss, I’d be all for replacing him with Ben Johnson.  I wouldn’t want to fire him just to fire him.  Only if we had a particular target to replace him with.  Ben Johnson is that guy to me right now. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

He made the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor @ QB in a season in which everyone thought we were tanking.   Shady and Clay were our  most targeted receivers.  Zay, Deonte Thonpson, KB, Andre Holmes.  That team had a better record than Mike Mcdaniels who had a loaded roster and a better QB. 

Mike Tolbert.

 

 

 

who was our OC that year?  i can’t recall but seems that person did decent. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

who was our OC that year?  i can’t recall but seems that person did decent. 

Rick Dennison.  Awful

[RyanC883]

28 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah this seems really subjective. What team doesn't lose games they "should win"? Even the Chiefs lost to the Colts and if Malik Willis could have literally done anything on offense would have lost to the Titans and probably should have lost to the Texans in OT.

 

McD is easily a top 10 coach. You don't have a franchise best winning percentage by being a bad coach. This should be common sense, but apparently is not.

 

They can talk about all the stuff he hasn't done but the hidden stuff that he HAS done that never really gets talked about is why the Bills have turned into a juggernaut.

 

I think the issue for many is that the juggernaut vanishes in the playoffs.   

 

We play so well in the regular season, then it’s choke time against equal talent playoff teams.  

 

Hopefully with McD running the D that unit improves from bend and don’t break to dominant, and Dorsey is ready to rock in year 2. Otherwise we may need a new OC or HC next year. 

 

I like what Bean has done to put these guys in an area to succeed.  I think we will see it next Jan/Feb!

Edited May 25, 2023 by RyanC883

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

It's hard to put a number on that.  McDermott is a good coach.  So was Marty Schottenheimer.  He built winners everywhere he went.  Just couldn't get them over the hump.  (*Byner fumble is on Byner)

 

I'm still in McDermott's corner but the concern is that he'll be another Marty Schottenheimer or Jim Mora... a guy who couldn't win the big one. On the other hand, they used to say that about Andy Reid. Two Super Bowls later... 

 

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Daboll deserves to be higher than McD, the others you can debate.

 

It's not that we are too good for a playoff caliber coach, it's that we want a Super Bowl.  Do they Bucs win if they don't fire Dungy?

 

Disagree strongly.

 

Dungy won a Super Bowl with the Colts after being fired from Tampa. Tampa/Gruden only won with Dungy's players because of the stupidity of Bill Callahan and the Raiders organization... and Gruden later proved that he was a mediocre Head Coach at best.

 

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

Tucker's abilities as a journalist rival his abilities as an offensive lineman. 

 

I actually liked Ross as a player and as a media member. He's usually smart and resourceful but this piece was crap... and you gave me a good chuckle.

 

[Blank Stare]

His criticisms are fair, and I also have my reservations about McD when the stage is biggest, but there’s no way in hell McD should be listed at 22. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Belichick

Payton

McVay

Shanahan

Tomlin

Reid

Pederson

Harbaugh

Carroll

Taylor

Sirianni

Vrabel is a push, in my opinion

 

*I'd take over Sean given the choice...

Daboll

McDaniels

 

For the 2 above, with this roster,  I'd favor an offensive mind.

 

I could make some arguments on some of these but this is highly subjective.   It appears you are going mostly with coaches who have been in or won the SB which is something McDermott does not have.  I don't think we have seen enough of Daboll or McDaniels to put them in the same category as McDermott.   We can list reasons but McDaniels lost the division and in the playoffs to McDermott and that is his one year.   Daboll had a nice season, but ultimately accomplished not that much.

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

McDermott won a playoff game in his first year, with no better talent and arguably worse in some regards.

 

That's the paradox of that list - it's obviously looking at the coach's entire career (Carroll, Harbaugh, Tomlin etc) which is fair - but then which inexplicably doesn't apply to McDermott.

 

It's supposed to be about what the coach has achieved, not what's NFL trendy. 

 

That's why IMO it's very hard to argue it's a fair or reasonable list.

McD lost his first 2 playoff games.

 

I took the list as if you wanted a guy to coach for you right now. McD should be higher than 22 and if he gets fired will be the hottest name of the market.
 

Some believe Daboll had more to do with Allens development then McD & that the Bills are good because of Allen and Allen alone, QB is carrying the coach. Its frustrating because there are so many worse coaches but if we can't win a Super Bowl with McD, what's the point?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Losing winnable games in regular season that negatively impact playoff seeding and stinking up the joint once we get there have Sean ranked 10 from the bottom.

 

Frankly, that’s fair. Imo.
 

https://www.the33rdteam.com/category/rankings/nfl-head-coaching-rankings-which-teams-coach-reigns-supreme/

 

 22. Sean McDermott, Buffalo Bills

Seasons With Team: 6 | Head Coaching Record: 62-35

Analysis: He’s done a lot of winning and deserves credit for that but the combination of losing games against far inferior teams in the regular season, which hurts playoff seeding, and then getting outcoached in the postseason is troubling. It seems like it’s going to get harder, not easier, for this group of Bills to break through with a Super Bowl berth.

 

Lol whatever.

 

He says that and then puts Kyle Shanahan at 6th. 

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

It may not be what you want but I believe the consequences are/is McD's clock has started.  He's done a good job of turning the culture around but I believe he's lost that goodwill with 13 seconds and Cincy.  Now we're in a new phase.  He's the coach and DC and it's time to up his success.

Yeah, I personally feel it should have been ticking earlier, but I’m not exactly tolerant of multiple game day mistakes and roster mismanagement.  If they crap on themselves again in the playoffs, it should be the end.

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Vrabel had the best running back in the last 20 years and a handcrafted line to go with him. 

 

And responding to others, I actually never have thought the Bills had a great roster.  They have two great safeties BECAUSE of McDermott.  They had agreat pass defense with Levi Wallace as the #2 corner.   They have an underproductive d line today, and it was worse three years ago.  They haven't had a star running back, and we all know about the o line.  

 

This team wins because of McDermott, and that's why 22 is ridiculous.  

I agree with everything until the last line, his D is good enough to keep them in the mix, they win because of JA covering massive holes in the O and scoring stupid amounts of points.

[Buffalo716]

His opinion is a joke

 

he turned around a franchise that hadn’t sniffed the postseason in 17 years 

 

has us in 5-6…. We have beat plenty of good teams 

 

was 13-3 last year 

 

this guy is a hack

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

I normally like Tucker's commentary, but this is simply awful.  Did he really need the clicks that bad that he had to pull the 'ol "let's piss off Bills fans" trick?  Pitiful effort.

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

 

I could make some arguments on some of these but this is highly subjective.   It appears you are going mostly with coaches who have been in or won the SB which is something McDermott does not have.  I don't think we have seen enough of Daboll or McDaniels to put them in the same category as McDermott.   We can list reasons but McDaniels lost the division and in the playoffs to McDermott and that is his one year.   Daboll had a nice season, but ultimately accomplished not that much.

 

My belief is that Daboll and McDaniels would do better with this roster than McDermott, being that they are offense-minded coaches who have done well with much less at the QB position.  

 

For the other coaches I've listed, I take an "all things equal" approach on top of what they've accomplished thus far.

[freddyjj]

@Chandler#81

Ross Tucker ranks NFL Coach’s, places McDermott at #22.

 

All time?  😎

[78thealltimegreat]

The amount of games Ross Tucker has won in the NFL as a coach is the same as everyone posting on this thread 

[Bad Things]

Ross Tucker can take his "hot take" and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Click-bait BS is all it is.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I think the issue for many is that the juggernaut vanishes in the playoffs.   

 

We play so well in the regular season, then it’s choke time against equal talent playoff teams.  

 

Hopefully with McD running the D that unit improves from bend and don’t break to dominant, and Dorsey is ready to rock in year 2. Otherwise we may need a new OC or HC next year. 

 

I like what Bean has done to put these guys in an area to succeed.  I think we will see it next Jan/Feb!

Absolutely spot on here. There is such a huge difference between the regular season and playoff time. 

 

The playoff losses under the Beane and McD era are painful. Just look at the faces of Diggs, Allen, etc.. It's pretty undeniable that the regime has fallen short. It was crystal clear that McD has been out coached by a wide margin in recent playoff games. For me, that's not ok nor acceptable. 

 

Does McD suck? No he doesn't. I'd put him somewhere near the back of the top ten. I think his time is running out if he can't get this team to advance further. He's proven to be a good leader, culture builder, and high character guy. Very good regular season coach and not so much afterwards. Ask yourself is this good enough? 

 

 

[GoBills808]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

You think it’s fair that Brandon Staley, Arthur Smith, McConnell and Mcdaniel should be ranked ahead of him?  There are more on the list that we can question….. but those 4 guys have no right at the moment 

 

 

I think I would rather have Mike McDaniel as HC than McDermott tbh

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think I would rather have Mike McDaniel as HC than McDermott tbh

I won’t disagree with that. I’d prefer to have an offensive HC over a defensive HC.  And after this season, with Fangio running the D, I think he’ll probably be regarded as the better coach.  
 

But based on body of work, I don’t see how anyone could say mcdaniel is better.  Rookie season to rookie season, McD was better. I don’t think there’s any doubt.  Body of work is clearly being used in this list.  If it weren’t based on career accomplishments, but based on recent accomplishments BB, Tomlin and Carroll wouldn’t be on the list.

 

So he’s using body of work for some coaches and not for others. And by others I mean just McD.  It’s bills mafia clickbait and there’s no way anyone could say he should be 22 and believe that. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, NewEra said:

I won’t disagree with that. I’d prefer to have an offensive HC over a defensive HC.  And after this season, with Fangio running the D, I think he’ll probably be regarded as the better coach.  
 

But based on body of work, I don’t see how anyone could say mcdaniel is better.  Rookie season to rookie season, McD was better. I don’t think there’s any doubt.  Body of work is clearly being used in this list.  If it weren’t based on career accomplishments, but based on recent accomplishments BB, Tomlin and Carroll wouldn’t be on the list.

 

So he’s using body of work for some coaches and not for others. And by others I mean just McD.  It’s bills mafia clickbait and there’s no way anyone could say he should be 22 and believe that. 

I don't necessarily agree with or even particularly care about the ranking tbh but the point has to be made- very few HCs in the NFL have a QB like Allen. Reid does and he's turned that into two SB wins. Taylor has a reasonable facsimile and has made a Super Bowl and two AFCCGs in the last couple years. McDermott has prime Josh Allen and has largely floundered in the postseason, so having him in the bottom half of NFL HCs is fair if we are considering talent/output ratio

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't necessarily agree with or even particularly care about the ranking tbh but the point has to be made- very few HCs in the NFL have a QB like Allen. Reid does and he's turned that into two SB wins. Taylor has a reasonable facsimile and has made a Super Bowl and two AFCCGs in the last couple years. McDermott has prime Josh Allen and has largely floundered in the postseason, so having him in the bottom half of NFL HCs is fair if we are considering talent/output ratio

I disagree 💯 

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't necessarily agree with or even particularly care about the ranking tbh but the point has to be made- very few HCs in the NFL have a QB like Allen. Reid does and he's turned that into two SB wins. Taylor has a reasonable facsimile and has made a Super Bowl and two AFCCGs in the last couple years. McDermott has prime Josh Allen and has largely floundered in the postseason, so having him in the bottom half of NFL HCs is fair if we are considering talent/output ratio

Staley LaFleur Taylor do t have a Super Bowl.  Their QBs are excellent, so those coaches must be horrible too.  

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I disagree 💯 

Belichick

Reid

Shanahan

McVay

Tomlin

Carroll

Pederson

Siriani

Taylor

McCarthy

Harbaugh

Payton

 

Can't really put him above any of these guys and none of the rest have anything close to a Josh Allen so I think it stands

 

 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He says that and then puts Kyle Shanahan at 6th

 

That's too low IMO. Shanahan has a decent case that he is the best head coach in the NFL. For my money he is. Give him Josh Allen and he would have a minimum of two Super Bowls right now.

[Beck Water]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think I would rather have Mike McDaniel as HC than McDermott tbh

 

Time will tell.  McDaniel has done better than I thought. 

 

But there's a long way to go from taken a 2021 9-8 team to......2022 9-8 and a playoff loss ....vs sustained 10, 13, 11, 13 win seasons.

The last time the Dolphins went to the playoffs, they were 10-6 in Adam Gase first season, shortly followed by 6-10 and 7-9 seasons.

 

That's my primary beef with Ross Tucker and his list. 

 

It's one thing for a coach to have a winning record for a year, even take the team to a WC playoff appearance. 

 

It's another thing for a coach to build a consistent winning team and sustain success.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Staley LaFleur Taylor do t have a Super Bowl.  Their QBs are excellent, so those coaches must be horrible too.  

Bengals at least got there. The Bills under McDermott haven't gotten close

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

That's too low IMO. Shanahan has a decent case that he is the best head coach in the NFL. For my money he is. Give him Josh Allen and he would have a minimum of two Super Bowls right now.

Correct on both counts

[freddyjj]

34 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think I would rather have Mike McDaniel as HC than McDermott tbh

Why because we get a draft pick for hiring him?  

[GoBills808]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Time will tell.  McDaniel has done better than I thought. 

 

But there's a long way to go from taken a 2021 9-8 team to......2022 9-8 and a playoff loss ....vs sustained 10, 13, 11, 13 win seasons.

The last time the Dolphins went to the playoffs, they were 10-6 in Adam Gase first season, shortly followed by 6-10 and 7-9 seasons.

 

That's my primary beef with Ross Tucker and his list. 

 

It's one thing for a coach to have a winning record for a year, even take the team to a WC playoff appearance. 

 

It's another thing for a coach to build a consistent winning team and sustain success.

Yes like most best of lists it has a lot of methodology issues

 

But the overall thrust I have to agree with

Just now, freddyjj said:

Why because we get a draft pick for hiring him?  

Because he made Tua a legit MVP candidate

[HappyDays]

I am starting to wonder if a defensive head coach just can't get it done in the modern NFL. Even if you have an amazing OC that OC is guaranteed to be a head coach before long. IMO this is a big year for McDermott. Ben Johnson will likely be a head coach in 2024. If we once again have a disappointing playoff exit I will badly want the next young offensive minded hotshot leading the way for the back half of Allen's career. Unfortunately I don't think Pegula agrees. I think McDermott is here for the next 5 years minimum as long as we are in the playoffs each year.

[eball]

Ross is looking for clicks.  He got ‘em.

 

Ranking McDermott outside of the top 10 is laughable.  Argue all you want about him being “outcoached” in the playoffs.

 

[GoBills808]

6 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

I'm fascinated as to how the #22 ranked head coach makes the playoffs in 5 out of 6 seasons, has the highest winning % in franchise history, is 4-5 in playoff games, and has built a stable winning culture to a team that has had exactly one previous stretch in their history...

 

still has a job?

 

what a freaking joke

What's arguably more fascinating is how such an allegedly good coach (by this thread and comment) in McDermott can't sniff the big game w one of if not the best quarterback in the league