In Defense of McDermott

[section122]

In light of the Frazier news and all of the whining about McDermott this offseason I wanted to shed some light on the success of the Bills.  Reading this board it seems like the consensus is McD is on the hot seat and needs to figure it out soon.  Time to put that idiotic nonsense to rest. (Also if Florio says it, it most likely isn't true...)

 

Since 2017 when McD took over, the Bills have the 3rd best record in the NFL behind only the Chiefs and the Saints. https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/team-records-since-2017

 

Since 2017 the Bills have the 8th most playoff WINS https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-team-playoff-wins-since-2017

 

Since 2020 when Allen took off, the Bills have the 5th most playoff WINS https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-team-playoff-wins-since-2020

 

Since 2020 the Bills are tied with the 2nd most playoff games played https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-team-playoff-wins-since-2020

 

Since 2017 The Bills have given up the 3rd least points per game https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-team-defensive-ratings-since-2017

 

Since he took over the Bills have been a top 3 regular season team and a top 5 playoff team by these measures.

 

Here are some more ranking him against contemporaries:

 

Amongst all active coaches he has the 7th best win % https://www.footballdb.com/coaches/index.html?sort=pct ahead of names like John Harbaugh and Sean McVay

 

He has the 21st best winning % OF ALL TIME https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/

 

He has the 46th most playoff wins OF ALL TIME (same link as above)

 

Of those 46, he has the 6th most wins with coaches with the same or less experience OF ALL TIME

 

Did you know?

 

There are only 38 coaches who have coached in 10 or more playoff games? McD has 9

 

Of those 38 only Sean McVay has done that in 6 or fewer seasons.

 

There are only 2 active coaches in the NFL with more than 1 super bowl win (Reid and Belichick)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_head_coaches#:~:text=Belichick also has the most,Andy Reid%2C and Sean McVay.

 

There are only 8 active coaches who have won a super bowl period.

 

Give the man his flowers.  He is a great coach and we are lucky to have him.

 

[Rc2catch]

Since his first couple seasons people have been saying he’s not the guy. 
I’m fine with Mcdermott. There have been plenty of growing pains but I do believe he’s gotten better and will continue to improve. He doesn’t strike me as a guy who is content with how things have gone. 
Andy Reid survived a decade in Philly even though “he couldn’t win the big one” 

The team should have performed better. But I’m not ready to give up on him yet. 
 

[Success]

He has a lot of strengths, and I agree that overall, we're lucky to have him. There are some bad coaches in the league.  I think McD is at minimum, he is in the top 10 - and a case could be made for top 5.

 

The lapses are notable, but people have to understand that all coaches have them. Reid, who is generally considered the best now, had some shaky years in Philly - and has even had moments in KC that are head-scratchers.

 

He gameplans well, and he is a great leader in times of adversity.  I'm all in on McD.

 

[Mr. WEO]

McVay and Harbaugh have won SBs.....without a Josh Allen on the roster period.

 

Once a team starts winning their division regular, the 13 in seasons aren't going to be how a HC is judged--as they shouldn't be.  Conference Championship game and SB appearances are the standard now.

[section122]

11 minutes ago, Success said:

He has a lot of strengths, and I agree that overall, we're lucky to have him. There are some bad coaches in the league.  I think McD is at minimum, he is in the top 10 - and a case could be made for top 5.

 

The lapses are notable, but people have to understand that all coaches have them. Reid, who is generally considered the best now, had some shaky years in Philly - and has even had moments in KC that are head-scratchers.

 

He gameplans well, and he is a great leader in times of adversity.  I'm all in on McD.

 

As you said all coaches have them and I think people are just more emotionally invested in the Bills which leads them to judge more harshly.

[Einstein]

Another regular season success thread.

I look forward to the playoff success thread at some point ever.

[Teddy KGB]

He shat the bed again, cool punts Vs the Bengals 

[somnus00]

I like McDermott. I don't want to let him go anytime soon. He shows the willingness to self-critique and improve/adapt. That's a great trait for a coach to have.

 

But saying we have the 5th most playoff wins while having the 2nd most playoff appearances probably isn't a winning argument on this site.

[ngbills]

Who are the top 3 QB's in the league? Which one has not made a super bowl. Lets not give McD too much credit. That is not saying he is bad, but most NFl level coaches would be in the playoffs every year with Allen.

[nucci]

and some really bad and frustrating playoff losses

[uticaclub]

You could easy use those stats as a reason why it’s time to move on. 2nd most playoff games, but only 8th in playoff wins? That’s not success, that just means the Jets, Dolphins and Patriots haven’t been very good and we have a franchise QB

[Success]

7 minutes ago, nucci said:

and some really bad and frustrating playoff losses

 

13 seconds was a botch.  And a big one.

 

This year?  That team was emotionally drained.  I don't think any "the inches we need are all around us" speech gets us out of that.

 

[msw2112]

31 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Another regular season success thread.

I look forward to the playoff success thread at some point ever.

 

In fairness to the OP, he does list serveral playoff-related statistics.

[mrags]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Another regular season success thread.

I look forward to the playoff success thread at some point ever.

Right. 
 

I’ll continue to say it. McD isn’t a wartime consigliere. 

7 minutes ago, Success said:

 

13 seconds was a botch.  And a big one.

 

This year?  That team was emotionally drained.  I don't think any "the inches we need are all around us" speech gets us out of that.

 

An actual good coach and not a clapper might have though. 

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

In fairness to the OP, he does list serveral playoff-related statistics.

 

5th most playoff wins with the 2nd most playoff appearances is the opposite of success if you ask me.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

In fairness to the OP, he does list serveral playoff-related statistics.

he’s 4-5 with elite offenses and defenses

[mrags]

30 minutes ago, somnus00 said:

I like McDermott. I don't want to let him go anytime soon. He shows the willingness to self-critique and improve/adapt. That's a great trait for a coach to have.

 

But saying we have the 5th most playoff wins while having the 2nd most playoff appearances probably isn't a winning argument on this site.

He has literally adapted to nothing. He has improved either. 

[JerseyBills]

And they literally gutted the roster. Complete renovation 

 

This time last year we were treating McD as the next great coach and I still do. I just think we had a bad game,  point blank period. Guys were out of gas at the wrong time. We can beat any team in the league 

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

And they literally gutted the roster. Complete renovation 

 

This time last year we were treating McD as the next great coach and I still do. I just think we had a bad game,  point blank period. Guys were out of gas at the wrong time. We can beat any team in the league 

Yet we still have problems beating good teams when it matters. Chiefs twice, texans once and bengals once. We had the lead in all but one of those games at once point. A huge lead against Texans, and a lead against the chiefs with almost zero time left on the clock. Yet McDermott Continues to not learn from his mistakes. 

[Behindenemylines]

McD has built a culture which isn’t an easy thing to do -especially in a small market snowy cold western NY city.  For that he gets a ton of congrats.   
 

I believe as part of that culture he has created a player/coach friendly atmosphere.   That’s great on so many levels and it’s seen in our general performance over his tenure.  What makes it difficult is taking a guy like Frazier who is Almost the guy and giving him space to be The Guy.  That’s patience that many fans INCLUDING ME just don’t have.  It’s a balancing act and I think he’s doing about as good as anyone can in the environment he created.  
 

we are now set to move past 13 seconds  etc and finish the job. McD is the guy and he now Nowers to grow up a bit and toughen up too-it’s part of the franchise growth.  With JA he’s got the most important piece.  We will finish the job this coming year! 

[Big Blitz]

HC isn’t the problem.  

 

Its the GM.  

 

I don’t know who has more say with the draft or the free agent shopping list.  
 

But until I’m told otherwise it’s Beane.  

[Chaos]

26 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

We can beat any team in the league 

just not when it matters most.

[LABILLBACKER]

54 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Another regular season success thread.

I look forward to the playoff success thread at some point ever.

The amount of Bills fans who have suddenly accepted a good regular season as the ultimate goal is growing.  I'm seeing it from several long time posters.  "Sean get me 10+ and maybe a division and I'm good"..... the goal should be championship or bust. If some of you are waiting for Sean to do exactly what Andy did, you might be waiting awhile. When all these rankings (3rd, 5th, 8th, 21st, 46th) translate to getting to a SB, call me.

[mrags]

21 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

HC isn’t the problem.  

 

Its the GM.  

 

I don’t know who has more say with the draft or the free agent shopping list.  
 

But until I’m told otherwise it’s Beane.  

Many believe McD has more say in the draft process. His desire to keep drafting Defensive players is proof of that. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

Who are the top 3 QB's in the league? Which one has not made a super bowl. Let’s not give McD too much credit. That is not saying he is bad, but most NFl level coaches would be in the playoffs every year with Allen.

To be fair…How many of those coaches would have supported taking Allen over Rosen and Lamar?  And of those that did, how many would have successfully over saw his development from Raw and widely predicted bust into a quarter Billion dollar super star?  
 

Easy to say any coach can win with who Allen is now, but that’s not how Allen entered the league.  And McD and the other coaches McD hired over saw that development.  

Edited March 1, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Success said:

He has a lot of strengths, and I agree that overall, we're lucky to have him. There are some bad coaches in the league.  I think McD is at minimum, he is in the top 10 - and a case could be made for top 5.

 

The lapses are notable, but people have to understand that all coaches have them. Reid, who is generally considered the best now, had some shaky years in Philly - and has even had moments in KC that are head-scratchers.

 

He gameplans well, and he is a great leader in times of adversity.  I'm all in on McD.

 

Depends on how you define "coach."  A HC in the NFL has a wide range of job duties.

 

As an in-game tactician and manger, he's terrible.  Below average, definitely not top 5!

 

That's where my gripe with him lies.  The rest of the big picture stuff he seems to do well enough.

 

 

[mrags]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The amount of Bills fans who have suddenly accepted a good regular season as the ultimate goal is growing.  I'm seeing it from several long time posters.  "Sean get me 10+ and maybe a division and I'm good"..... the goal should be championship or bust. If some of you are waiting for Sean to do exactly what Andy did, you might be waiting awhile. When all these rankings (3rd, 5th, 8th, 21st, 46th) translate to getting to a SB, call me.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. We’re going to be waiting a long time work McD if we stick with him 

[section122]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The amount of Bills fans who have suddenly accepted a good regular season as the ultimate goal is growing.  I'm seeing it from several long time posters.  "Sean get me 10+ and maybe a division and I'm good"..... the goal should be championship or bust. If some of you are waiting for Sean to do exactly what Andy did, you might be waiting awhile. When all these rankings (3rd, 5th, 8th, 21st, 46th) translate to getting to a SB, call me.

 

This is the exact nonsense that prompted this post.  The goal is a championship and McD is as good as any coach in the league as evidenced by the facts i laid out in the op.

 

Of the last 10 sb winners, 3 were belichick, 2 were reid, then you have mcvay who just coached the rams to a worse record than mcd has ever had, arians who is retired, doug pederson, gary kubiak who is retired, and pete carrol who has a 1-4 playoff record since 2017.

 

I'll take it a step further.  In the last 3 years they have lost to the chiefs twice and the bengals.  Does anyone really want to argue that the bills this year had more talent than the bengals especially on offense?  The bengals are even at qb, way better at wr, and better at rb.  How about the Chiefs? Mahomes is in a league of his own and the best qb in football.  Tyreke Hill is at least as good as diggs and kelce is better than anyone else on the Bills offense.

 

Say they made the super bowl the last 3 years.  The bucs had tom brady, better rb, and a much better wr room than the bills the year they won it.  The rams have kupp who is better than diggs and aaron donald who is better than anyone on the bills dline plus THEY had von miller.  How about the eagles and the best oline in football, a better wr room than the bills, and a secondary where the top 3 dbs were better than anyone in the bills secondary (due to health poyer/Hyde/white if healthy would change that equation.

 

The thing people don't want to admit when bashing mcd is the teams that beat them had as good or better players than them.  They didn't lose to poor teams they lost to the class of the nfl.  They are in the converstion of the best teams because of mcd not in spite of him as many seem to suggest.  Winning the super bowl takes a lot of talent, a lot of skill, and regardless if people want to admit it, luck.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

Many believe McD has more say in the draft process. His desire to keep drafting Defensive players is proof of that. 

Anyone who thinks McD isn't in control of defensive draft picks is incredibly naive.

[uticaclub]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

And they literally gutted the roster. Complete renovation 

 

This time last year we were treating McD as the next great coach and I still do. I just think we had a bad game,  point blank period. Guys were out of gas at the wrong time. We can beat any team in the league 

There were plenty calling for his head this time last year. We had plenty of bad games in 2021 that cost us a shot at the 1 seed and then 13 seconds happened. Just because he's better than Chan Gailey doesn’t mean he's untouchable

[JGMcD2]

So after we put McDermott’s head on a stake… who do we replace him with that is guaranteed to deliver a Super Bowl? 

[Toyo321]

Both McD and Beane both are treading in shark infested waters right now.   They have had 5 years to get this right.  You have had elite talent for most of those years and you have had it relatively easy with in your own division for quite a few years now.  You have managed to find every possible way to lose in the playoffs and not go to the Super bowl.   You have to start facing reality.  The Eagles did a complete rebuild in 4 years and got to a Super bowl.   KC in 2 years completely rebuilt their OL and had to bring in other fill in players and WR's and other key missing personnel and end result they won another SB.  Even after letting Hill leave for Miami too.

 

You seriously have to start looking at the GM and the Coach. They are both being portrayed as fictional saviors of this team.  That they have made Buffalo a legit Super Bowl contender.  Their legacy will be written this year,  there is no telling how good or bad these guys will be.  Trying to fix a team with serious holes with their starting talent,  in 2023,  because of lack of FA $ and the cap space.   This all leads to losses and a decline for 2023.  1) OL broken,  2) Dline broken 3) WR# 2 & 3 are broken  4) LB core is broken  5) RB 50% broken 6) Safety position broken.

 

It all adds up,  and we now have no cap money at all.  The cuts are going to be deep and detrimental.  Frasier leaving is a blessing at this point.  Any new DC for this coming year has to work with the the most depleted talent pool in a long long time.  You can't work to replenish talent with with no money.  You can only restructure so may contracts.  You only have so many draft picks.

 

Beane will need to pull a rabbit out of a hat to fix the mess this team is in now,  largely due to his Irresponsible D line signings strapping this team again in cap purgatory.  He is Doug Whaley 2.0.  This entire D is vastly over paid underperforming talent.  The entire front D line could walk as far as I am concerned.  They are absolute garbage accept for Oliver and Rousseau.  Beane keeps bringing in used discarded talent that underperforms, but we pay them more than any of these players prior teams would have paid them.  No other teams would have offered this same talent the money that the Bills are paying these guys, period!!! 

 

Beane and McD are just a mirage that fools you into thinking you are seeing something but you really aren't.  They are just as bad as a mirage in the desert.  You think you keep getting closer to the Oasis but in fact you are just on a road to nowhere.  That has been their performance and MO to date, we have been on a road to nowhere mixed in with some playoff wins, but no where near a SB appearance and the "holey grail " A SB win"

 

Von Miller is not going to do jack to get this team to a super bowl.  He is overpaid and he is to old to make a impact anymore.  Beane had this brain fart to sign this guy and now he is coming off a knee ACL injury that will have him sitting out on IR for most of this upcoming season.  I absolutely hated this signing because the money that was spent on him was sorely needed for this upcoming season 2023-2024 to replace people that were going to be gone due to FA.  

 

When you listen to this guy on his Pod cast its the same old thing, his old teammates and other players,  its all about him and his money.  Its not about the Bills.  Its enough to make you gag an McD and Beane bought into his BS 110%.  Unreal !!!

 

I am not a person to look for all the negatives but we let a coach get away that is 10 times better than McDermott.  Anyone questioning who Daboll was or what kind of coach he was, has not listened to the Giants players & their interviews that praised this guy till no end.  All the commotion at the end of 2021 between him and McDermott was real.  Because Daboll actually was doing his Job better as a coach than either Frasier or McD were at that time. He took the Giants from trash to playoffs in one season.  Her turned D Jones into Josh Allen's- protégé.

 

You don't hear any similar praises from our players about McDermott or Frazier.  This writing has been on the wall for some time now and its there for everyone to see.  People have figured out the Bills coaching on O and on D.  Good teams have pushed our team all over the field and it has happened on a more consistent basis and the Bengals did it again.

 

I have zero faith that McD will bring in outside coaching help at the DC position,  but it is needed in the worst way.  We are stuck in a rut on D and no end is in sight.

 

McD,  nothing against him, but he will never take us or any other team to a SB.  That is a fact as bad as a lot of people don't want to hear it.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Toyo321

[MasterStrategist]

Funny how many people blame the coaches/Mcd, when this team doesn't have near the top-end talent of other teams.

 

We take Josh and Diggs off this team, and we are below average.  This team continues to lack speed, on both sides of the ball.

 

I continue to point the finger at:

1. Beane: wasted FA capital on the DL, too many bust selections at DL.  I give him credit for Josh and Diggs, which buys him time, but he quickly needs to put together a solid draft.

 

2. Situational coaching: overall, I like our coaches and what they bring.  But, certain situations have lacked creativity/poor schemes.   I'm excited to see if our defense can make schematic changes/player development is improved with Frazier gone.  On offense, we lack a Wr2 and OL...no surprise when appropriate resources have been misallocated (again Beane).

 

If anyone is on the hot seat, it's Beane and his minions.  When you have a superstar QB, the bar automatically rises and he's been lackluster to say the least since acquiring Josh/Diggs

 

 

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The amount of Bills fans who have suddenly accepted a good regular season as the ultimate goal is growing.  I'm seeing it from several long time posters.  "Sean get me 10+ and maybe a division and I'm good"..... the goal should be championship or bust. If some of you are waiting for Sean to do exactly what Andy did, you might be waiting awhile. When all these rankings (3rd, 5th, 8th, 21st, 46th) translate to getting to a SB, call me.

I don't think most of us are settling for just winning the division.  We're just not ready to can McD as yet.  We weren't even close to being competitive for so many years.   Who would you bring in to give us instant success?  Hopefully we take care of getting Josh protection and weapons in the draft.  Many of us wanted to see a change in DC at the end of the season.  Well...ironically we got our wish after all.  So let's see how this offseason plays out.  If you want to abandon ship, feel free.  I'll wait a bit before I decide to join you.

[mrags]

18 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Anyone who thinks McD isn't in control of defensive draft picks is incredibly naive.

Right. 

[Billsflyer12]

11 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

So after we put McDermott’s head on a stake… who do we replace him with that is guaranteed to deliver a Super Bowl? 

An offensive Head Coach, as both participants in last 4 Super Bowls were offensive coaches.  Ben Johnson Lions OC would do.

 

No coach/qb combo in NFL history won their 1st Super Bowl together after year 5 together.  Maybe MCD will be exception but history says they will need a new coach to win it.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

McVay and Harbaugh have won SBs.....without a Josh Allen on the roster period.

 

Once a team starts winning their division regular, the 13 in seasons aren't going to be how a HC is judged--as they shouldn't be.  Conference Championship game and SB appearances are the standard now.

You sound spoiled

18 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

There were plenty calling for his head this time last year. We had plenty of bad games in 2021 that cost us a shot at the 1 seed and then 13 seconds happened. Just because he's better than Chan Gailey doesn’t mean he's untouchable

McD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>chan

[Billsflyer12]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

You sound spoiled

Whats your standard?

 

What’s the point if winning the Super Bowl is not the standard now with this QB and team?
 

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Whats your standard?

 

What’s the point if winning the Super Bowl is not the standard now with this QB and team?
 

My standard is as long as we’re getting an opportunity to win you don’t sit there and B word about everything
 

If the team starts losing, then you make changes

 

Note nobody that does anything with football operations does what these fans think should be done

 

Nobody that earns their living doing this starts making wholesale changes to a winning team

Edited March 1, 2023 by John from Riverside

[schoolhouserock]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

The amount of Bills fans who have suddenly accepted a good regular season as the ultimate goal is growing.  I'm seeing it from several long time posters.  "Sean get me 10+ and maybe a division and I'm good"..... the goal should be championship or bust. If some of you are waiting for Sean to do exactly what Andy did, you might be waiting awhile. When all these rankings (3rd, 5th, 8th, 21st, 46th) translate to getting to a SB, call me.

The amount of Bills fans who blindly think a change at HC will magically get them to the promised land is surprising. It’s drought-era logic. “Terry, get me a new head coach every year or so because I like the excitement of the churn more than a real chance to compete.” Have fun with another 20 year drought. Call me when it’s over.