Lamar Jackson leaves denver game with knee injury

[TheWeatherMan]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

 

How can you agree with that?  I've read it at least 10 times and still have no idea what it says!!

 

Believe it or not, posts are not peer reviewed prior to being submitted and typos happen on message board posts.  No need to be an overly critical ass clown, get over yourself. This isn’t ENG101 and you’re not the professor.  

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Believe it or not, posts are not peer reviewed prior to being submitted and typos happen on message board posts.  No need to be an overly critical ass clown, get over yourself. This isn’t ENG101 and you’re not the professor.  

 

You mad, bro?

[TheWeatherMan]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This bit is correct. But again it comes back to the point. What are you supposed to do if you don't have a top 3 Quarterback? Bills fans have suddenly become total QB snobs. We have Josh and other teams don't so nobody anyone else has is any good. Dak isn't elite. But he is a darn good QB. A top 10 QB. 

Not saying I disagree with the top 10, but for S and G’s what QBs do you have over him?

[H2o]

4 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Believe it or not, posts are not peer reviewed prior to being submitted and typos happen on message board posts.  No need to be an overly critical ass clown, get over yourself. This isn’t ENG101 and you’re not the professor.  

 

"Ohhhh BABY!!!"

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The problem is the major inefficiency in the QB market and you are right it is because demand outstrips supply. There are like three tiers of guys and then the teams who just flat out don't have a QB....

 

There is the elite tier: Josh, Mahomes, Burrow (who knows whether you still put Rodgers here or not, depends how he feels)

Then a bunch of franchise guys: this is the tier the Dak, Stafford, Lamar, Carr, Herbert (he can make the top group but he hasn't yet) etc fall in

Then there are the placeholder starters: Jared Goff and Jimmy G are the classic examples of this right now

Then there are the teams who don't have a quarterback: Colts, Jets, Saints, Panthers etc...

 

There are obviously always a few teams who haven't worked out which of these their young guy falls in... but broadly it is those 4 tiers. The problem is the market delineates between tier 2 and 3 pretty well, but not very well between tiers 1 and 2. So rather than the tier 2 guys costs $6-8m a year less which might be one or even two extra impact players they are pretty much the same price when they sign their deals. So you have a couple of seasons before the market has jumped again where you are hamstrung. Because the elite guys make up for those 1 or 2 extra impact players you are missing. The franchise guys don't quite do that. 

 

I wouldnt even put Stafford there anymore.  I think he's done. 

[H2o]

Depending on the type of PCL sprain, Lamar should be back no later than 4 weeks. The Ravens' next 4 games? The Steelers, the Browns, the Falcons, and the Steelers. Baltimore should be fine. They close out with Cincy. He will be back by then. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

24 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

He had an all pro offensive line, 2 great backs, 3 great WR’s and an above average TE yet still lost in the first round of the playoffs to a Jimmy G led team.  Dak is extremely inconsistent and in no way worthy of the contract he signed.  If JA was the QB got the Cowgirls that would 100% be the best team in football 3 years running.  

 

Agree, but whats the alternative?  Let him go and start over and hope you get someone better?  The odds aren't in their favor.  The year Allen was drafted was rated as one of the all time best QB classes ever, second to 1983.  Look at it now, one superstar, one very good, (Jackson) 2 FA, and one starting right now, but more out of desperation.  

 

The simple answer is the Cowboys should have paid him less.  But Dak would had to have agreed to that and not very likely he would have as some other team just as dumb and just as desperate as Dallas would have offered him as much, maybe even more to leave Dallas.  Teams sign these guys, fringe stars to contracts only worthy of the elite and cross their fingers that maybe he'll improve even just a little bit as a little bit could get them over the top.

 

Will be interesting to see what happens in Baltimore.  Will Jackson realize his ship has passed and he needs to sign for less or again will some other team think they can fix him and offer him the big bucks.  Likely he'll be tagged, but that only works so long.  That's also a big risk on Jackson's part, more than the average player as much as he gets banged up.   I'll bet the big bucks from some team.

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree, but whats the alternative?  Let him go and start over and hope you get someone better?  The odds aren't in their favor.  The year Allen was drafted was rated as one of the all time best QB classes ever, second to 1983.  Look at it now, one superstar, one very good, (Jackson) 2 FA, and one starting right now, but more out of desperation.  

 

The simple answer is the Cowboys should have paid him less.  But Dak would had to have agreed to that and not very likely he would have as some other team just as dumb and just as desperate as Dallas would have offered him as much, maybe even more to leave Dallas.  Teams sign these guys, fringe stars to contracts only worthy of the elite and cross their fingers that maybe he'll improve even just a little bit as a little bit could get them over the top.

 

Will be interesting to see what happens in Baltimore.  Will Jackson realize his ship has passed and he needs to sign for less or again will some other team think they can fix him and offer him the big bucks.  Likely he'll be tagged, but that only works so long.  That's also a big risk on Jackson's part, more than the average player as much as he gets banged up.   I'll bet the big bucks from some team.

 

I just think Jackson is crazy.  The Ravens offered him the right contract.  He just wanted to be fully guaranteed like Watson.  I dont think he is worth that and I think the team is stupid if they pay that.  I also thought the Murray contract was stupid.  As for Dak... I think that was fine.  I think they were stupid for paying Zeke instead at first.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Not saying I disagree with the top 10, but for S and G’s what QBs do you have over him?

 

Over Dak? Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Rodgers, Brady, Stafford (when healthy).... then after that I think Dak, Lamar, Jalen Hurts and Carr are the next 4 and I'd probably have them in that order. Hurts may still be ascending we don't know if we have seen his ceiling yet. The other three we know the ceiling but they have track records over a number of years of good play.

10 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I wouldnt even put Stafford there anymore.  I think he's done. 

 

We will see what he looks like when he returns. He might be. 

[Mango]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Over Dak? Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Rodgers, Brady, Stafford (when healthy).... then after that I think Dak, Lamar, Jalen Hurts and Carr are the next 4 and I'd probably have them in that order. Hurts may still be ascending we don't know if we have seen his ceiling yet. The other three we know the ceiling but they have track records over a number of years of good play.

 

We will see what he looks like when he returns. He might be. 

I was a bit critical/weary of Hurts as a passer early in the season. Some of his throws the last few weeks have been really impressive. 

[eball]

Just checking in to see if Lamar has had the leg amputated yet.  That’s what Dr. Chao suggested needs to happen on Twitter.

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

32 minutes ago, eball said:

Just checking in to see if Lamar has had the leg amputated yet.  That’s what Dr. Chao suggested needs to happen on Twitter.

 

But Dr. Ho is merely suggesting one (or more) of his fine therapeutic devices be purchased, and used by Jackson.

[Behindenemylines]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This bit is correct. But again it comes back to the point. What are you supposed to do if you don't have a top 3 Quarterback? Bills fans have suddenly become total QB snobs. We have Josh and other teams don't so nobody anyone else has is any good. Dak isn't elite. But he is a darn good QB. A top 10 QB. 

I wouldn’t say snobs, but poster is correct. If they had Josh Burrows or Mahomes could easily have been on a two or three SB run. 
 

Dak is good but I don’t believe can get you there. 
 

anyway F the Cowboys I hate them so glad they haven’t represented 

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

There goes that highest paid nfl guaranteed contract Lamar wanted.  What a greedy idiot

[4merper4mer]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Over Dak? Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Rodgers, Brady, Stafford (when healthy).... then after that I think Dak, Lamar, Jalen Hurts and Carr are the next 4 and I'd probably have them in that order. Hurts may still be ascending we don't know if we have seen his ceiling yet. The other three we know the ceiling but they have track records over a number of years of good play.

 

We will see what he looks like when he returns. He might be. 

I see Herbert in roughly the same position in most lists like this but every week he and his coach do something stupid to lose a game.  At what point does that stop being ignored as if it were the exception?  I see the raw talent but he’s as dumb as a box of rocks.  Hurts, when I watch, seems to consistently avoid dumb mistakes.  Personally I’d move him up.  I agree with others moving Stafford down based on age/health.

 

Does Tua fit in your “after that” group?  I’d guess that Lawrence will get there and Watson will re-emerge at some point.

 

 

[CSBill]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Over Dak? Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Rodgers, Brady, Stafford (when healthy).... then after that I think Dak, Lamar, Jalen Hurts and Carr are the next 4 and I'd probably have them in that order. Hurts may still be ascending we don't know if we have seen his ceiling yet. The other three we know the ceiling but they have track records over a number of years of good play.

 

We will see what he looks like when he returns. He might be. 

 

My 2 cents, current (as in, not based on past performance or future projections), and not in order, just grouped:

 

Top Tier

• Allen
• Mahomes
• Burrow

The Next Level

• Herbert
• Rodgers
• Brady
• Lamar
• Hurts

Emerging (or Emerged and descending)

• Tagovailoa
• Prescott
• Stafford
• Carr
• Lawrence

• Garoppolo

Who am I missing? Flame away . . .

[TheWeatherMan]

6 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

My 2 cents, current (as in, not based on past performance or future projections), and not in order, just grouped:

 

Top Tier

• Allen
• Mahomes
• Burrow

The Next Level

• Herbert
• Rodgers
• Brady
• Lamar
• Hurts

Emerging (or Emerged and descending)

• Tagovailoa
• Prescott
• Stafford
• Carr
• Lawrence

• Garoppolo

Who am I missing? Flame away . . .

Bears look like they have a QB of the future, Dirt bag Watson if he can turn it around, possibly Goff, and as crazy as it sounds (I won’t say his name) the QB from Seattle.  

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I see Herbert in roughly the same position in most lists like this but every week he and his coach do something stupid to lose a game.  At what point does that stop being ignored as if it were the exception?  I see the raw talent but he’s as dumb as a box of rocks.  Hurts, when I watch, seems to consistently avoid dumb mistakes.  Personally I’d move him up.  I agree with others moving Stafford down based on age/health.

 

Does Tua fit in your “after that” group?  I’d guess that Lawrence will get there and Watson will re-emerge at some point.

 

 

 

The top 7 wasn't necessarily a ranking so much as it was the order I thought of them. I take the point on Herbert, I have commented on his 3rd Quarter disappearing acts and I get it, if they miss the playoffs this year he is 0-3 but I am also not as in love with the Chargers roster as other people and two of their best players - Bosa and Slater - are on IR. I think they are a less well coached version of the Bills in a sense in that week after week I see them asking Herbert to do too much. The Bills are better, Allen is better and McDermott is better... but they also have a tendency to ask the QB to do too much. 

 

I don't move folks down on age or health. Only performance and I am generally slow to move people up and down. Tua is an example of that. Based on this year he absolutely has a case to be in that next group. But 10 games isn't a big enough sample size. I give Hurts a bit more leeway because I think he was very clearly trending this way last year. 

15 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

My 2 cents, current (as in, not based on past performance or future projections), and not in order, just grouped:

 

Top Tier

• Allen
• Mahomes
• Burrow

The Next Level

• Herbert
• Rodgers
• Brady
• Lamar
• Hurts

Emerging (or Emerged and descending)

• Tagovailoa
• Prescott
• Stafford
• Carr
• Lawrence

• Garoppolo

Who am I missing? Flame away . . .

 

Dak is a group too low. 

1 hour ago, Behindenemylines said:

I wouldn’t say snobs, but poster is correct. If they had Josh Burrows or Mahomes could easily have been on a two or three SB run. 
 

Dak is good but I don’t believe can get you there. 
 

anyway F the Cowboys I hate them so glad they haven’t represented 

 

 

 

He is correct, but you haven't provided an alternative? Should 29 teams just go "oh well we have no chance, let's suck and hope we get an Allen, Mahomes, Burrow" ??

 

Only one of whom was a #1 pick. 

[Dr. Who]

16 hours ago, H2o said:

Depending on the type of PCL sprain, Lamar should be back no later than 4 weeks. The Ravens' next 4 games? The Steelers, the Browns, the Falcons, and the Steelers. Baltimore should be fine. They close out with Cincy. He will be back by then. 

Somehow I think those Steelers games are still going to be tough and they would be with or without Jackson.

[KDIGGZ]

If it was Jackson's ACL I wonder what would have happened. They would not be giving a running QB with a bum knee anything close to their previous offer. So they would probably try to tag him and maybe he holds out. I think everyone involved got lucky it's only a PCL injury. They are going to have to sign him and the longer they wait the more expensive it becomes 

[Behindenemylines]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The top 7 wasn't necessarily a ranking so much as it was the order I thought of them. I take the point on Herbert, I have commented on his 3rd Quarter disappearing acts and I get it, if they miss the playoffs this year he is 0-3 but I am also not as in love with the Chargers roster as other people and two of their best players - Bosa and Slater - are on IR. I think they are a less well coached version of the Bills in a sense in that week after week I see them asking Herbert to do too much. The Bills are better, Allen is better and McDermott is better... but they also have a tendency to ask the QB to do too much. 

 

I don't move folks down on age or health. Only performance and I am generally slow to move people up and down. Tua is an example of that. Based on this year he absolutely has a case to be in that next group. But 10 games isn't a big enough sample size. I give Hurts a bit more leeway because I think he was very clearly trending this way last year. 

 

Dak is a group too low. 

 

He is correct, but you haven't provided an alternative? Should 29 teams just go "oh well we have no chance, let's suck and hope we get an Allen, Mahomes, Burrow" ??

 

Only one of whom was a #1 pick. 

There may not be an alternative per se but an option:which is coaching.  Good coaches with a solid but fluent game plan will put their players and those players skill sets in the best position to function as a team against each opponent.  No team is 100 superstars. Dallas is star studded but coaching and management is a C+ to B- at best.  Green Bay had Rogers and didn’t lift the Lombardi yearly.  BB was legendary taking outcasts and second stringers and making them look like #1s.  Yes he had Brady but also his system for Brady to excel in-and eventually surpass. 
 

so asking for the alternative isn’t the right question 

 

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The top 7 wasn't necessarily a ranking so much as it was the order I thought of them. I take the point on Herbert, I have commented on his 3rd Quarter disappearing acts and I get it, if they miss the playoffs this year he is 0-3 but I am also not as in love with the Chargers roster as other people and two of their best players - Bosa and Slater - are on IR. I think they are a less well coached version of the Bills in a sense in that week after week I see them asking Herbert to do too much. The Bills are better, Allen is better and McDermott is better... but they also have a tendency to ask the QB to do too much. 

 

I don't move folks down on age or health. Only performance and I am generally slow to move people up and down. Tua is an example of that. Based on this year he absolutely has a case to be in that next group. But 10 games isn't a big enough sample size. I give Hurts a bit more leeway because I think he was very clearly trending this way last year. 

 

Dak is a group too low. 

 

He is correct, but you haven't provided an alternative? Should 29 teams just go "oh well we have no chance, let's suck and hope we get an Allen, Mahomes, Burrow" ??

 

Only one of whom was a #1 pick. 

[TheFunPolice]

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

Indy with Jonathan Taylor could be a good landing spot but not sure Baltimore would trade in conference. You're right Lamar skill sets limits where he can excel and to be honest think he reached his ceiling, the only way Baltimore gets better is if they improve their RBs and defense. Yet until Lamar can continually  beat teams from the pocket as a passer he and they aren't going anywhere past the first or second rounds of the NFL playoffs. 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

 

I don't envy the Ravens in this decision at all.  I personally don't think you can win with him in the AFC.   Not with him on the same QB timeline as Allen, Mahomes and Burrow.

 

On the Niners, in the NFC, yea.. that could work.. until they need to find a way to fit their OL, Bosa, those linebackers, Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, CMC etc., under the salary cap with a (i'm guessing) close to 50M per year contract for Lamar?

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

There may not be an alternative per se but an option:which is coaching.  Good coaches with a solid but fluent game plan will put their players and those players skill sets in the best position to function as a team against each opponent.  No team is 100 superstars. Dallas is star studded but coaching and management is a C+ to B- at best.  Green Bay had Rogers and didn’t lift the Lombardi yearly.  BB was legendary taking outcasts and second stringers and making them look like #1s.  Yes he had Brady but also his system for Brady to excel in-and eventually surpass. 
 

so asking for the alternative isn’t the right question 

 

So Dallas should get better coaches? We don't disagree there. But the question is if you don't think you can get it done with someone as capable as Dak what do you do? Tear it all down? No. You get the best coaches you can and you work it out. 

[Behindenemylines]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So Dallas should get better coaches? We don't disagree there. But the question is if you don't think you can get it done with someone as capable as Dak what do you do? Tear it all down? No. You get the best coaches you can and you work it out. 

Yes exactly what I was trying to say. You can only run the ponies ya got, so the variable (stable variable) to me in these situations is coaching.  A good coach hides a multitude of sins.

 

Hypothesis if McBean were the tandem in Dallas.  Probably with this talent a SB appearance if not two. 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

If it was Jackson's ACL I wonder what would have happened. They would not be giving a running QB with a bum knee anything close to their previous offer. So they would probably try to tag him and maybe he holds out. I think everyone involved got lucky it's only a PCL injury. They are going to have to sign him and the longer they wait the more expensive it becomes 

I’m not sure it’s as you portray on the offer. QBs play by totally different rules with regards to value

 

i suspect he would’ve quietly accepted something in the ballpark of the ravens past offer. 

the team would be showing good faith not to pull it. QBs are near impossible to find. 

[Playoffs?]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

Except that they forgot to give him some receivers 

[KDIGGZ]

16 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I’m not sure it’s as you portray on the offer. QBs play by totally different rules with regards to value

 

i suspect he would’ve quietly accepted something in the ballpark of the ravens past offer. 

the team would be showing good faith not to pull it. QBs are near impossible to find. 

He's a different case in that his value is in his legs. He's not going to all of a sudden be a pocket passer once he can't run anymore 

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

He's a different case in that his value is in his legs. He's not going to all of a sudden be a pocket passer once he can't run anymore 

a single ACL injury is unlikely to change that. 
 

If Kirk cousins can cash in as a free agent, Lamar still would coming off anything short of an absolutely catastrophic injury 

[DasNootz]

6 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

There goes that highest paid nfl guaranteed contract Lamar wanted.  What a greedy idiot

I don't think he was greedy - I think he just exposed himself to more risk than he should have.  These players have one shot at it.

Was Aaron Judge greedy to turn down the Yankees last season?  He turned down 7 years for $213.5 million - had a season for the ages and was rewarded with 9 years for $360 million. 

[DaggersEOD]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

Obviously, that was what he needed when he first joined the league, but I’ve begun to wonder if that same system is now holding him back. 
 

He’ll never QB for the Bills, so I don’t care either way, but the way these negotiations have gone has made me wonder if he really does need a team to do that for him to be successful at this stage in his career. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Yes exactly what I was trying to say. You can only run the ponies ya got, so the variable (stable variable) to me in these situations is coaching.  A good coach hides a multitude of sins.

 

Hypothesis if McBean were the tandem in Dallas.  Probably with this talent a SB appearance if not two. 

 

which talent---that in Dallas??

 

no chance.

[Behindenemylines]

38 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

which talent---that in Dallas??

 

no chance.

Sonic McBeane was in Dallas with the talent they have they are not true SB contenders?  

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

Sonic McBeane was in Dallas with the talent they have they are not true SB contenders?  

 

First of all, they are "SB contenders" now (pretty much--in the NFC)...plus you said "a SB appearance, if not 2".

 

Second, the talent on  the Bills is superior.  No SB appearances yet

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Thank Allah we have Josh Allen. 

[CorkScrewHill]

Lamar to miss this week and most likely next week due to his PCL sprain

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/12/11/report-lamar-jackson-likely-to-miss-next-week-return-christmas-eve/

if they only lose one of the next two they will still control their own destiny, once Lamar is back, as it relates to the AFC North .. since they beat the Bengals already and play them the last week of the season. I would prefer the Ravens win the division as the Bengals to me are the bigger threat.

[Teddy KGB]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:41 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I would really like to think it is not that.... because it is so stupid. 

1-3 more int’s than td’s in the postseason.   Tired of hearing how “good” he is and how he deserves more than Allen and Mahomes 🤮🤮

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

1-3 more int’s than td’s in the postseason.   Tired of hearing how “good” he is and how he deserves more than Allen and Mahomes 🤮🤮

 

So your problem with Lamar is a problem with the media. Got it.

[Teddy KGB]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So your problem with Lamar is a problem with the media. Got it.

another bad playoff performance = not giving him the contract he wants.   
 

itll be too concerning. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Teddy KGB