Victory Formation Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Scott7975 said: He is already with the best coach he can be for his skillset. We’ll see. He has a high ceiling, one may argue that he hasn’t reached that ceiling yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, H2o said: It's pretty fair to say that Lamar has cost himself a lot of $$$. He probably could have had $200M gtd in August, but didn't take the deal. Then, this season, we have seen him struggle again. His completion percentage has been on the decline since his 2nd season, his MVP season, as well as his number of overall TD's. He's still an effective runner of course, but we have seen him going down due to injury the last two seasons now. He hasn't progressed as a passer at all imo. He still has trouble reading defenses and throwing outside the hashes. A lot of his completions are generated due to his legs and then finding the open man when the play breaks down, usually a TE. I have a feeling that Lamar is not viewed by NFL FO's the same way the media has tried to portray him and hype him up the last 3 years. I got crapped on in another thread for having basically the same take about Jackson, but what you say in this post is the truth, even if some people don’t want to admit it. They like to hide behind the “he doesn’t have any talent around him” excuse, an excuse not afforded to other QB’s in the league. When Josh Allen was throwing to the rotting corpse of Kelvin Benjamin, and a mentally unstable Zay Jones, no one in the media used the he doesn’t have any talent around him excuse.....they just laughed at him and called him a bust. Meanwhile, Jackson has been in the league four years and he still is being afforded that excuse instead of being criticized for just not being good enough to be an elite QB. Edited December 5, 2022 by Special K 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 20 hours ago, Victory Formation said: If he gets with the right coach he’s a top 10 QB easily though, he’s proven that. I shudder to think of Lamar with the Jets. The Ravens changed everything in their organization for this guy and it has worked. He's a former MVP, 43-15 as a starter and 125 total TDs Since 2018 these are the only guys with more TDs than Jackson Patrick Mahomes Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Kirk Cousins Russell Wilson Josh Allen People like to rip on Jackson for not being the best thrower, but he is incredibly effective player and he is going to get paid. I'm not sure going to the Jets makes him more effective and I would ague he's already a top 10 QB 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 I thought the Ravens were a lock to win that division but I'm thinking the Bengals are about to continue their current ascent regardless of LJ's health and availability. Still think the Ravens will be a lock for one of the WC spots though because I've had both those teams in the playoffs this year from the beginning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 5 hours ago, H2o said: It's pretty fair to say that Lamar has cost himself a lot of $$$. He probably could have had $200M gtd in August, but didn't take the deal. Then, this season, we have seen him struggle again. His completion percentage has been on the decline since his 2nd season, his MVP season, as well as his number of overall TD's. He's still an effective runner of course, but we have seen him going down due to injury the last two seasons now. He hasn't progressed as a passer at all imo. He still has trouble reading defenses and throwing outside the hashes. A lot of his completions are generated due to his legs and then finding the open man when the play breaks down, usually a TE. I have a feeling that Lamar is not viewed by NFL FO's the same way the media has tried to portray him and hype him up the last 3 years. 10 minutes ago, Special K said: I got crapped on in another thread for having basically the same take about Jackson, but what you say in this post is the truth, even if some people don’t want to admit it. They like to hide behind the “he doesn’t have any talent around him” excuse, an excuse not afforded to other QB’s in the league. When Josh Allen was throwing to the rotting corpse of Kelvin Benjamin, and a mentally unstable Zay Jones, no one in the media used the he doesn’t have any talent around him excuse.....they just laughed at him and called him a bust. Meanwhile, Jackson has been in the league four years and he still is being afforded that excuse instead of being criticized for just not being good enough to be an elite QB. I get where both of you are coming from, but I have to slightly disagree here. This is a league where QB's get paid. We all know that. But more importantly, Lamar has a huge disclaimer of not only having a poor cast around him on offense most of his career, but also having his best weapon shipped to AZ this offseason leaving his cupboard even more bare. Then there are the injuries all around the team on both sides of the ball in Balt and yet they are 8-4 still. Teams will look at what he has accomplished despite all those factors and still hand him a bag. And lets say its not as much guaranteed, but that doesn't mean he won't still take home as much money at the end of the day. For example if he signed a $200M contract fully guaranteed or signed a $200M contract with $140M of it guaranteed, he can still earn his full $200M just playing out his contract. End of the day though, whether he gets less, as much, or more than he might have been able to get in August, the amount he gets will still be a ton of money and he will be set for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said: The Ravens changed everything in their organization for this guy and it has worked. He's a former MVP, 43-15 as a starter and 125 total TDs Since 2018 these are the only guys with more TDs than Jackson Patrick Mahomes Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Kirk Cousins Russell Wilson Josh Allen People like to rip on Jackson for not being the best thrower, but he is incredibly effective player and he is going to get paid. I'm not sure going to the Jets makes him more effective and I would ague he's already a top 10 QB in the Baltimore's Scheme that is completely designed around him. Now the question becomes in a new team do they do the same or do they try and force him to tun into something he is not??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 6 hours ago, H2o said: It's pretty fair to say that Lamar has cost himself a lot of $$$. He probably could have had $200M gtd in August, but didn't take the deal. Then, this season, we have seen him struggle again. His completion percentage has been on the decline since his 2nd season, his MVP season, as well as his number of overall TD's. He's still an effective runner of course, but we have seen him going down due to injury the last two seasons now. He hasn't progressed as a passer at all imo. He still has trouble reading defenses and throwing outside the hashes. A lot of his completions are generated due to his legs and then finding the open man when the play breaks down, usually a TE. I have a feeling that Lamar is not viewed by NFL FO's the same way the media has tried to portray him and hype him up the last 3 years. I think it's the reverse of what happened with Allen. Jackson started strong won MVP 2nd season so he's the next coming of the greatest player ever. Once you get the reputation hard for the media to let go. Allen on the other hand started slow so he didn't get much benefit of the doubt till maybe late last season with the media. Even now there are still some who say Allen is nothing special. Can also argue many of Allen's completions too are made due to play breaking down and his scrambling. The difference is he has superior arm talent compared to Jackson so can make much more out of much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Jackson to Atlanta sure feels right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Jackson to Atlanta sure feels right. Yep. Or Whatever team ends up hiring Sean Payton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I get where both of you are coming from, but I have to slightly disagree here. This is a league where QB's get paid. We all know that. But more importantly, Lamar has a huge disclaimer of not only having a poor cast around him on offense most of his career, but also having his best weapon shipped to AZ this offseason leaving his cupboard even more bare. Then there are the injuries all around the team on both sides of the ball in Balt and yet they are 8-4 still. Teams will look at what he has accomplished despite all those factors and still hand him a bag. And lets say its not as much guaranteed, but that doesn't mean he won't still take home as much money at the end of the day. For example if he signed a $200M contract fully guaranteed or signed a $200M contract with $140M of it guaranteed, he can still earn his full $200M just playing out his contract. End of the day though, whether he gets less, as much, or more than he might have been able to get in August, the amount he gets will still be a ton of money and he will be set for life. All true, but Jackson doesn't have a contract yet. He should have signed 2 weeks after Allen did last August. He was at his height of fame and could easily got $45M AAV with a little higher guaranteed % than Josh. If he had an agent, he would have told Jackson to take that. I now bet he gets tagged next year for $31M. He will have to hope his play doesn't drop off and he avoids a big injury. All this contract stuff has to be a distraction and he was a fool not to have signed last year. IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Lamar with the Week to Week designation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Ah we are bashing Lamar again are we? We normally wait until a Ravens loss for that. 8-4 in the division lead despite Andrews, and Stanley missing multiple games and Bateman and Dobbins being on IR (that is arguably their best 4 players on offense other than Jackson). And yet there they are. I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Lamar with the Week to Week designation Sounds like he is going to miss 2-3 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said: I thought the Ravens were a lock to win that division but I'm thinking the Bengals are about to continue their current ascent regardless of LJ's health and availability. Still think the Ravens will be a lock for one of the WC spots though because I've had both those teams in the playoffs this year from the beginning. Their schedule is favorable and Huntley can certainly get hot in that offense. @Pitt @Cleveland Atlanta Pittsburgh @Cincinatti The AFCN likes to beat up on each other, but other than all of those being divisional games they should be able to go 2-3 down the stretch and finish the season 10-7 which should get them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I get where both of you are coming from, but I have to slightly disagree here. This is a league where QB's get paid. We all know that. But more importantly, Lamar has a huge disclaimer of not only having a poor cast around him on offense most of his career, but also having his best weapon shipped to AZ this offseason leaving his cupboard even more bare. Then there are the injuries all around the team on both sides of the ball in Balt and yet they are 8-4 still. Teams will look at what he has accomplished despite all those factors and still hand him a bag. And lets say its not as much guaranteed, but that doesn't mean he won't still take home as much money at the end of the day. For example if he signed a $200M contract fully guaranteed or signed a $200M contract with $140M of it guaranteed, he can still earn his full $200M just playing out his contract. End of the day though, whether he gets less, as much, or more than he might have been able to get in August, the amount he gets will still be a ton of money and he will be set for life. I'm not saying Lamar is complete trash or anything, but he hasn't taken any noticeable steps forward. The numbers actually say he has taken a step back over the last 3 seasons. He's also a few years older now with a few years more wear and tear on his body. The injuries are starting to happen. He still can be dangerous, but his flaws remain his flaws. He is a top 10-15 starting QB in this league and should fall in that Cousins/Dak $$$ range. The one place that would be REALLY interesting if he landed there imo? Miami where they have Waddle and Hill, guys who are the epitome of a scramble drill. That would be an interesting fit. But even still, I don't think NFL FO's see him in the same light the media tries to portray him and hype him up as. He's not sliced bread. He's a supreme athlete who is a middling passer at the QB position. I still like to watch him play though. 6 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: I think it's the reverse of what happened with Allen. Jackson started strong won MVP 2nd season so he's the next coming of the greatest player ever. Once you get the reputation hard for the media to let go. Allen on the other hand started slow so he didn't get much benefit of the doubt till maybe late last season with the media. Even now there are still some who say Allen is nothing special. Can also argue many of Allen's completions too are made due to play breaking down and his scrambling. The difference is he has superior arm talent compared to Jackson so can make much more out of much less. Josh does thrive at times when the play breaks down. The main difference between Allen and Lamar though? Allen can make any and every throw on the football field, accurately, regardless of how tight the window, and he can do it from the pocket. Lamar cannot. I like Lamar, I really do, but he can't hold a candle to Josh. MVP or no MVP. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Ah we are bashing Lamar again are we? We normally wait until a Ravens loss for that. 8-4 in the division lead despite Andrews, and Stanley missing multiple games and Bateman and Dobbins being on IR (that is arguably their best 4 players on offense other than Jackson). And yet there they are. I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently. I've never "bashed" Lamar for his QB play. I do think he's a fool for not hiring an agent and playing at the end of his 5th season still without a long-term contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Ah we are bashing Lamar again are we? We normally wait until a Ravens loss for that. 8-4 in the division lead despite Andrews, and Stanley missing multiple games and Bateman and Dobbins being on IR (that is arguably their best 4 players on offense other than Jackson). And yet there they are. I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently. I don't think it will ever end. It's a byproduct of being in the same draft class as Allen and the media constantly playing both sides of the "who's better" argument. LJ is the last remaining threat to the 2018 QB class throne, so there's always going to be some animosity there from certain segments of the Bills' fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg S Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 27 minutes ago, Mango said: Their schedule is favorable and Huntley can certainly get hot in that offense. @Pitt @Cleveland Atlanta Pittsburgh @Cincinatti The AFCN likes to beat up on each other, but other than all of those being divisional games they should be able to go 2-3 down the stretch and finish the season 10-7 which should get them in. That schedule doesn't look so easy especially if LJ misses some games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 23 hours ago, vincec said: I don't think I've seen any study that shows a correlation for more injuries inside the pocket or outside. As you say, you often take bigger hits in the pocket, but if you run you are hit 100% of the time (unless you score an uncontested TD I guess) whereas many passes from the pocket occur without getting significant contact. Or slide. Or run out of bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: The Ravens changed everything in their organization for this guy and it has worked. He's a former MVP, 43-15 as a starter and 125 total TDs Since 2018 these are the only guys with more TDs than Jackson Patrick Mahomes Aaron Rodgers Tom Brady Kirk Cousins Russell Wilson Josh Allen People like to rip on Jackson for not being the best thrower, but he is incredibly effective player and he is going to get paid. I'm not sure going to the Jets makes him more effective and I would ague he's already a top 10 QB Lamar only makes that list because his running ability if I need a QB to get me 60 yards through the air in a minute with his arm I can't buy in to Jackson Edited December 5, 2022 by The Jokeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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