Greg Cossell not pulling any punches on Bills: "This is not a super talented offense"

[WyoAZBillfan]

Not wrong but, you could literally say this about most teams in the age of free agency. KC isn’t all pro across the board, they do have a great play caller. Tampa,GB, LV, the Chargers…. All about the same in one regard or the other. 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. This was much more the 2019 Bills adding Stefon Diggs than the Bengals going from worst to first and the Superbowl. 

That Bengals turnaround was really weird. I live here and nobody here even expected it. And their offense is quite literally "throw up 50-50 balls to Chase and Higgins." And we all expected them to fall back to earth this year but here they are again tied for the division lead and getting hot going into the playoffs. 

[babulator]

I think Gabe has been a bit of a disappointment this season. Had he taken a big step up, we might not be as harsh on the O in general.

 

I think Dorsey's use of Knox hasn't been great either. Yes, our O-line needs help, yes he can stay in and block one in a while or help chip, but man call him a few plays, try to get him the ball. And while I didn't love how often we called those McKenzie sweeps under Daboll, I think we did find some success with some of that misdirection stuff. 

 

Lastly, we're sorely missing a reliable slot option, too bad Crowder got hurt, Mckenzie isn't the answer here, (maybe Bease) and I actually think T. Austin might have been having some success here, had he stuck with the process and bided his time. I'd like to see less Mckenzie here and more Shakir for now. He hasn't proven himself unreliable, lets give him more chances to get open.

 

Clearly the Dorsey transition hasn't been as seamless as we thought it would be. There's plenty of time to rectify it. Knox needs to get more involved in the passing game and block less. This probably means incorporating some more roll out designs or spread concepts and just let JA work. 

 

We have enough to get it done, recalibrate the O play calling and design a little bit and get'r done. Go Bills!

[LabattBlue]

…but but but, you can never have enough DL, CB, and day 2 RB’s.  
 

I will probably be shouted down, but McD and BB have not done a good job of surrounding Josh with better offensive personnel. 
 

This offense is good because of Josh.  Think of how unstoppable they would be with better OL play, and more consistent WR play beyond Diggs. 

[loyal2dagame]

4 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

That Bengals turnaround was really weird. I live here and nobody here even expected it. And their offense is quite literally "throw up 50-50 balls to Chase and Higgins." And we all expected them to fall back to earth this year but here they are again tied for the division lead and getting hot going into the playoffs. 

That's because even though the Bengals oline is hot garbage,  the have talented (not average or below average) players at wr (chase and Higgins), rb (mixon), and qb (joe b)

Edited December 1, 2022 by loyal2dagame

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

That's because even though the Bengals oline is hot garbage,  the have talent (not average or below average) players at wr (chase and Higgins), rb (mixon), and qb (joe b)

Agree on all except for Mixon. He has sort of fallen off the RB cliff this year. Outside of one game against the Panthers, he has not produced much. He only has 605 yards on 158 attempts. He has a lower YPC than Motor.

[Eastport bills]

9 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said:

1 game is not sustained success. 

Davis was incredible in the playoffs and I'm not saying he wasn't.  But based off of that performance,  where is he now? 

Where is he now? He’s the number 2 receiver on an 8and3 club. He’s got 650 yds and a 20 yd average per catch thru 10 games played. If we project his stats it gives him a little under 1100 yds and 60 catches as a number 2. With 8 or 9 tds. He’s been dinged and plays thru injury. What are you looking for, Diggs numbers? 

[Nephilim17]

1 minute ago, Eastport bills said:

Where is he now? He’s the number 2 receiver on an 8and3 club. He’s got 650 yds and a 20 yd average per catch thru 10 games played. If we project his stats it gives him a little under 1100 yds and 60 catches as a number 2. With 8 or 9 tds. He’s been dinged and plays thru injury. What are you looking for, Diggs numbers? 

I would much rather have a number 2 who is reliable in every game who averages 12 YPC than a player who as a huge game with three deep catches but then disappears for a couple games. We need to regularly move the chains, not have a deep threat who hits big every once in a while.

[loyal2dagame]

You can't project his stats when he has a unicorn 95 yrd catch. (It was a sweet play)

Davis will have 200 yrds receiving one game and 45 yds the next.  

Edited December 1, 2022 by loyal2dagame

[Casey D]

My God this is a stupid thread.  Team is 2nd in points scored, PPG, yardage etc.  I guess if there is little talent on offense-- the "hot take"-- we have a team of wonderful overachievers.  Geez this gets old.

 

 

[Awwufelloff]

If Allen had the Dolphins weapons he would be setting all time records.

[thenorthremembers]

3 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Where is he now? He’s the number 2 receiver on an 8and3 club. He’s got 650 yds and a 20 yd average per catch thru 10 games played. If we project his stats it gives him a little under 1100 yds and 60 catches as a number 2. With 8 or 9 tds. He’s been dinged and plays thru injury. What are you looking for, Diggs numbers? 

You're oversimplifying the situation.  Almost anyone playing #2 wideout in this offense would have good statistics.   Davis has been disappointing because he is incredibly inconsistent catching the ball.   He has been in the low 50 to high 40% catch ratio all year.   It's simply not good enough.  

 

Cossell is dead on with what he said.   Almost across the board the offensive talent has been average to below average.   Outside of Josh, Diggs, Dawkins, Morse, and I'll include Knox here, everyone else has been average.  Saffold, Spencer Brown, and Davis have been grossly substandard when it comes to their performance when compared to their opportunities.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

46 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Gabe Davis being inconsistent has knocked this offense down a peg.

 

If he regains that consistency, the Bills O is back to elite status.

That’s a big one. The Gabe that we saw in the playoffs vs chiefs last year, vs colts the prior one…. Massive Difference maker. Just so damn inconsistent these days 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

2 minutes ago, Awwufelloff said:

If Allen had the Dolphins weapons he would be setting all time records.

Meaningless.... If my aunt had b---s she'd be my uncle..... Cosell literally just said it wasn't a super talented group that's all

[thenorthremembers]

4 minutes ago, Casey D said:

My God this is a stupid thread.  Team is 2nd in points scored, PPG, yardage etc.  I guess if there is little talent on offense-- the "hot take"-- we have a team of wonderful overachievers.  Geez this gets old.

 

 

The point being made is they are 2nd because their QB is pretty much a superhuman.   

[Jauronimo]

Its a national holiday for the "Hope I'm wrong bro" crowd.

[colin]

the real problem is we have 2 bonnafide scare you playmakers on O, allen and diggs.  we might have some decent guys elsewhere, but i think it's clear we need at least one more way to hurt teams, and speed is the biggest thing missing.  i really hope cook and hines can increase the RB position productivity, because unless we got OBJ i don't see where the speed and big play ability is gonna come from.

[teef]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Its a national holiday for the "Hope I'm wrong bro" crowd.

they're awful.  

 

 

the bills are going to get crushed by 35 points...i hope i'm wrong!

[Big Turk]

49 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

OL is the hardest position group to fill. You have to massively overpay in FA and they are hard to project coming out of college. Also, the best OTs (the ones that are so good that they project easily) tend to go in the first half of the first round. So, listening to Greg Cossell and the negative posters (and resident Dolphins' fan) here on TBD that are luxuriating in his podcast hot take, the best course of action is for the Bills to lose out so that they can finish 8-9 and get that pick. Someone call up WGR and suggest that. They'll love that take.

 

There are a lot more big name OL free agents that turn out to be terrible signings than ones that work out well.

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The point being made is they are 2nd because their QB is pretty much a superhuman.   

Well then I'm glad the Bills have a superhuman at the most important position in sports. 

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The point being made is they are 2nd because their QB is pretty much a superhuman.   

Exactly. I’ll bet that most of the posters touting the offense as the “second ranked offense” are the same ones that were condemning the top rated defense last year as being misleading stats. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

35 minutes ago, H2o said:

JA17 - Elite

RB stable - average at best

FB - uhhhhh

Diggs - Elite

Davis - above average

The rest of the WR group - average at best to below average

Dawkins - Good

Morse - above average

Bates - average at best

Saffold - average at best

Brown - below average

 

Josh makes the entire thing go. Without Josh, this is a 6-11 to 8-9 team. 

Agree with everything here, but I would have Davis as average, also Knox not on the list, which I would also give a average to.

[Low Positive]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

There are a lot more big name OL free agents that turn out to be terrible signings than ones that work out well.

Teams don't usually let the good ones go. [cue Wyatt Teller post].

[Big Turk]

Just now, FrenchConnection said:

Teams don't usually let the good ones go. [cue Wyatt Teller post].

 

Well...if Teller was playing like that here, he wouldn't have been traded.

[LyndonvilleBill]

27 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im not as down on the OL as some.  They’re ok.  Not many dominating OL’s around the league.  KC has invested heavy there, yet they don’t run the ball great either and Mahomes can be pressured. 
 

The neglect of the skill positions is notable.  It’s not some second guessing either .. many fans/media were begging the Bills to add another viable outside WR.   ..And that was even before we witnessed McKenzie and Davis, thus far, fail to step up in their new roles. 

I am not totally down on the OL as much as I am the positions. I thought we needed a RG. Putting Bates next to Brown is a mistake in my opinion. 2 of our least experienced lineman next to eachother? Not cool... Bates was playing well at LG and should have stayed there. Poor choice to move him.

[Casey D]

8 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The point being made is they are 2nd because their QB is pretty much a superhuman.   

Not lately.  And what is that point anyway.  Few teams have great offenses without a top tier QB.  If that's the point, what's non-obvious about that?  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Tom Brady is the GOAT. Regularly turned average receivers into good ones.

That’s the job of every franchise quarterback.

 

Nobody is saying Josh Allen should win five or six Super Bowls. But he should be able to take a team with one star receiver and a bunch of nobodies to one or two Super Bowl’s.

 

KC’s offensive personnel this year really isn’t that much better than the bills. They have Kelce and a bunch of unproven WR’s. I don’t think there o-line is elite. 
 

And they have a mix of different running backs just like the bills.

 

Guarantee if all of the skill players were swapped on Buffalo and Kansas City everybody would be freaking out about how the bills have no wide receivers at all and that Kelce isn’t enough.

 

if it wasn’t for the 13 second debacle Josh Allen should already have that first Super Bowl appearance with essentially the same supporting cast.

 

If we want to look at a quarterback that does have skill players we probably want to look at Cincinnati.

[Eastport bills]

12 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

I would much rather have a number 2 who is reliable in every game who averages 12 YPC than a player who as a huge game with three deep catches but then disappears for a couple games. We need to regularly move the chains, not have a deep threat who hits big every once in a while.

He’s a 3rd year who has ascended to the number 2 guy and has shown a capacity to play his best in the biggest games. He had an ankle injury and missed 1 game. I’m not a Doctor but his explosion has to be limited for a little bit. We’re 8 and 3 and we have 6 games left. Don’t diminish this guy for kicks. Let the season take shape This is a talented receiver. I’m watching the NFL for 50 plus.

[gobills404]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Tom Brady won Super Bowls with less talent on offense.

Because his defenses almost always show up in the playoffs. Brady has had one playoff game where he played great and still lost, and it took 17 years for it to happen.

[John from Riverside]

54 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I had hopes for Davis and I still think he can be serviceable. I have my doubts that he will get a second contract here after we invested heavily in Allen, Diggs, and knox. I think we will draft someone to compete with Davis next year and slide into the number 2 role the following year. 
 

However…I never really thought for a second that McKenzie could fill beasleys shoes. Sure he he a few good moments, but he’s mainly a gadget guy. I had a strong feeling that decision was gonna bite us and it did. Then again, we brought in crowder who naturally got hurt. Either way, the slot position was arguably Allen’s biggest fallback the last few years and it was largely misjudged by Beane. 

The guy that was supposed to be filling bease role was crowder

 

McKenzie sign for peanuts comparatively speaking and is a gadget guy

 

I don’t understand why shakur is not being given more of a chance

 

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

That’s the job of every franchise quarterback.

 

Nobody is saying Josh Allen should win five or six Super Bowls. But he should be able to take a team with one star receiver and a bunch of nobodies to one or two Super Bowl’s.

 

KC’s offensive personnel this year really isn’t that much better than the bills. They have Kelce and a bunch of unproven WR’s. I don’t think there o-line is elite. 
 

And they have a mix of different running backs just like the bills.

 

Guarantee if all of the skill players were swapped on Buffalo and Kansas City everybody would be freaking out about how the bills have no wide receivers at all and that Kelce isn’t enough.

 

if it wasn’t for the 13 second debacle Josh Allen should already have that first Super Bowl appearance with essentially the same supporting cast.

 

If we want to look at a quarterback that does have skill players we probably want to look at Cincinnati.

And most of those skill position players, including the QB, are still on their rookie contracts. The Bengals with their poor ownership (and I mean that literally) have a very small SB window.

[Motorin']

21 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

You're oversimplifying the situation.  Almost anyone playing #2 wideout in this offense would have good statistics.   Davis has been disappointing because he is incredibly inconsistent catching the ball.   He has been in the low 50 to high 40% catch ratio all year.   It's simply not good enough.  

 

Cossell is dead on with what he said.   Almost across the board the offensive talent has been average to below average.   Outside of Josh, Diggs, Dawkins, Morse, and I'll include Knox here, everyone else has been average.  Saffold, Spencer Brown, and Davis have been grossly substandard when it comes to their performance when compared to their opportunities.

 

Davis is at 68% catch percentage over the last 3 games. I think this bolds well for the remainder of the season. 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I agree to an extent, but it's kinda silly to say "If we ignore your elite QB and top elite WR1 how talented is your offense?". Do the Chiefs look like a super talented offense if you ignore Mahomes and Kelce ? 

 

I think our O-line is a bottom 5 unit in the league and would look so much worse on a weekly basis if Allen wasn't a houdini back there.  

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The guy that was supposed to be filling bease role was crowder

 

McKenzie sign for peanuts comparatively speaking and is a gadget guy

 

I don’t understand why shakur is not being given more of a chance

 

 

Cos when he is on the field he can't get open. 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Cos when he is on the field he can't get open. 

Well gunner, I really hope that that’s the case and not a situation where injuries dictate that we have to play him and then all of a sudden he has a career day

[H2o]

20 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Agree with everything here, but I would have Davis as average, also Knox not on the list, which I would also give a average to.

Definitely forgot the TE position. I would say Knox is above average for a TE. 

[DJB]

2 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

Morse, Dawkins are good. OLine is not as bad as portrayed. Not a strength, but people pile on too much.

 

How many teams are stacked with only top talent? Ridiculous. 2nd scoring offense. Knox, Davis are better than average. Sure it's not Kelce or the Jefferson/Thiele duo but anyway

The o line is terrible. That cannot be denied

[RichRiderBills]

Cosell is wrong. 

 

First off Bills have a top NFL talent at QB that alone is huge. What he adds in the running game and passing is incredible. Then they have a top, hall of Fame, WR, a top 10 LT , likely a top 10 RB and a top 10 TE. 

 

Knox and Singletary are incredibly talented guys. I think motor would get 1k yearly in other offenses. 

 

Our online is mediocre. But we have the LT and a pro bowl caliber player at C. 

 

Stack this up versus the Chiefs, as someone else pointed out, or the Ravens, or the Titans, frankly it's on the level. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by RichRiderBills

[Dablitzkrieg]

Waaaaaaaay too much group think and mob mentality in this thread.  Its disgusting

[Eastport bills]

19 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

You're oversimplifying the situation.  Almost anyone playing #2 wideout in this offense would have good statistics.   Davis has been disappointing because he is incredibly inconsistent catching the ball.   He has been in the low 50 to high 40% catch ratio all year.   It's simply not good enough.  

 

Cossell is dead on with what he said.   Almost across the board the offensive talent has been average to below average.   Outside of Josh, Diggs, Dawkins, Morse, and I'll include Knox here, everyone else has been average.  Saffold, Spencer Brown, and Davis have been grossly substandard when it comes to their performance when compared to their opportunities.

So when I use statistics I’m oversimplifying and you use statistics on catch ratio which could have stemmed from 2 or 3 drops over a few games to render him untalented. Why the negativity and the need to diminish our talent level? Because Greg Cosell said so during a blog interview. Funny, I’ve been listening to him every week on the “Herd” , and he never once mentioned a lack of talent on our offense. Maybe he had nothing fresh or noteworthy to say.  We are watching a rookie ( Cook) evolving into a contributor and Hines being integrated into our offense. One offensive explosion and you’re back on the bandwagon.