Do we need to start blitzing more?

[Toledo Bill]

If Groot is out and Espenesa (who looks like a bust) is out and Basham is not impressing on pass rushing should we revise our strategy regarding blitzing?Our tackles have not been generating a lot of pressure and Miller is constantly doubled.

That was a great blitz last week with Milano coming on the outside of Miller. 
I am concerned that Detroits offense will kill us with a lack of pass rush and the way our corners are playing. Looking for opinions.

[Solomon Grundy]

NO!!! 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Its a complicated question. We see when it works but typically we don't see all the times you get burnt blitzing.  Now perhaps that completion would happen with or without blitzing. 

I'm in the camp if you can generate just a few more negative plays on defense its ok to give up a few more splash plays by the opposing offense.  Our defense is death by a thousand cuts and just hoping the opponent bleeds out before we do. 

One strip sack or pick 6 can change the entire game. One 25 yard completiongiven up probably not so much.

That said, they were rushing Miller against their RT and he was bull rushing most of the time. Would be nice to see a bit more creativity.  The Milano sack was as much about Miller looping inside as it was about the blitz. 

[Chandler#81]

Did you watch the Cleveland game? More blitzes called than any other game this year.

 

🤦‍♂️

56 minutes ago, Toledo Bill said:

If Groot is out and Espenesa (who looks like a bust) is out and Basham is not impressing on pass rushing should we revise our strategy regarding blitzing?Our tackles have not been generating a lot of pressure and Miller is constantly doubled.

That was a great blitz last week with Milano coming on the outside of Miller. 
I am concerned that Detroits offense will kill us with a lack of pass rush and the way our corners are playing. Looking for opinions.

 

[Toledo Bill]

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

Did you watch the Cleveland game? More blitzes called than any other game this year.

 

🤦‍♂️

 

Thanks for the sarcasm Mr. Expert.

And yes I have seen every game since the Bill’’s inception.

[wppete]

Need to start mixing it up. Stop playing such a vanilla and predictable Defense. We need more blitzes and stunts upfront. 

[clayboy54]

Sure. Let’s leave the inexperienced secondary on an island, while we’re at it.

 

It’s always a compromise. One or two well-timed blitzes is enough for me. Too much investment is DL to need to keep bringing 5-6 every down.

[Golden*Wheels]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

Need to start mixing it up. Stop playing such a vanilla and predictable Defense. We need more blitzes and stunts upfront. 

That'd be my opinion....it'd be an interesting wrinkle for us to dial it up even another 20% just because it's basically a "known fact" we don't blitz. Can always go back to form in tight spots.

[nemhoff]

definitely needed more pressure against the Vikings

[freddyjj]

Might see 97 Jordan Philips play DE a bit this game if Groot and Epenesa are out. 

[reddogblitz]

36 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Sure. Let’s leave the inexperienced secondary on an island, while we’re at it.

 

It’s always a compromise. One or two well-timed blitzes is enough for me. Too much investment is DL to need to keep bringing 5-6 every down.

 

Blitzing more and getting press on the QB could actually help our secondary.  When a QB is under pressure is more apt to throw a bad pass.

 

And I don't really care how much money we spent on the DLine. It seems they can't get much pressure by themselves. Give them some help.

Edited November 22, 2022 by reddogblitz

[wppete]

29 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

That'd be my opinion....it'd be an interesting wrinkle for us to dial it up even another 20% just because it's basically a "known fact" we don't blitz. Can always go back to form in tight spots.

agreed. And stunts and games upfront with the big guys. Create lanes and confusion. Watching this Defense really passes me off how basic they play. It’s like a high school Defense. 

[GunnerBill]

Nope. Play our defense. Get some plays out of our playmakers - Ed, Von, Milano and Poyer - fight like hell to stay in the game on defense and hope the offense gets its collective head out of its ass. We will give up some plays and give up some long drives but if we make enough to keep them to mid 20s points wise then out offense should win us any game. Until we get our injured guys back that is the only recipe IMO. 

 

We blitzed too much for my tastes on Sunday and got burned more than we got home. Sure, mix a few in, but regularly leaving these DBs 1v1 in coverage is a recipe to get beat and when Jefferson beats you that is one thing when Donovan Person-Jones does it, that's another.

[SoCal Deek]

 It would be hard for them to blitz any less, so my answer would be "yes".  I was happy to see more selective pressure being applied against Cleveland. Now some want to say that it will expose our inexperienced secondary....but the lack of blitzing has not been the problem back there.  The problem in the last couple of games has been that they cannot break up passes at the 'high point' of the ball.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, wppete said:

agreed. And stunts and games upfront with the big guys. Create lanes and confusion. Watching this Defense really passes me off how basic they play. It’s like a high school Defense. 

 

The complexity of this defense is on the backend. That is how they are schemed and designed. They have had to dial that back somewhat with the injuries. They are not designed to be super exotic up front. Jumping to that mid-season would be an ill advised desperation move IMO. 

[Captain Hindsight]

 

[NewEra]

Find the sweet spot between 4 man rush and blitzing to keep the offense guessing while Rousseau is out.  When Rousseau returns, I think we’re good enough to only blitz 0-3 times a game. 

[wppete]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The complexity of this defense is on the backend. That is how they are schemed and designed. They have had to dial that back somewhat with the injuries. They are not designed to be super exotic up front. Jumping to that mid-season would be an ill advised desperation move IMO. 

Good point, agreed it’s all on the backend but I don’t see why we can’t stunt and play games upfront and the occasional blitz. Need to start giving new looks, we are far too predictable. 

[Billever76]

45 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Sure. Let’s leave the inexperienced secondary on an island, while we’re at it.

 

It’s always a compromise. One or two well-timed blitzes is enough for me. Too much investment is DL to need to keep bringing 5-6 every down.

If you can't get pressure wrs will get open even against the best secondary...not getting pressure is EXPOSING them

[Billz4ever]

51 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Sure. Let’s leave the inexperienced secondary on an island, while we’re at it.

 

It’s always a compromise. One or two well-timed blitzes is enough for me. Too much investment is DL to need to keep bringing 5-6 every down.

Giving the QB time to throw only rushing 4 and not getting pressure is doing exactly what you're claiming blitzing does.

 

If the secondary is your weakness, you do not let the QB sit back there and wait for receivers to come open.  You have to force the bad throws.

 

Most QBs in the NFL will find the receivers if given time to throw and if you're not getting pressure by just rushing the front 4, that's exactly what you'll be doing.

 

I'm certainly not advocating blitzing every down, but this defense has become way too predictable and has grown far too content with rushing 4, not getting pressure, and having our secondary exposed by meh QBs like Brissett.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Billz4ever

[Simon]

44 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Might see 97 Jordan Philips play DE a bit this game if Groot and Epenesa are out. 

 

Ed Oliver was taking some snaps at End in the second half vs the Browns.

[without a drought]

Or they could always get Jackson (not just him) to turn around once in a while.

 

The Bills have had some very good tight coverage on many plays on the outside and haven't gotten a hand, a helmet or anything in the way. It's kind of weird that there have been that many low percentage plays completed easily into what should be good coverage.

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Giving the QB time to throw only rushing 4 and not getting pressure is doing exactly what you're claiming blitzing does.

 

If the secondary is your weakness, you do not let the QB sit back there and wait for receivers to come open.  You have to force the bad throws.

 

Most QBs in the NFL will find the receivers if given time to throw and if you're not getting pressure by just rushing the front 4, that's exactly what you'll be doing.

 

I'm certainly not advocating blitzing every down, but this defense has become way too predictable and has grown far too content with rushing 4, not getting pressure, and having our secondary exposed by meh QBs like Brissett.

 

They blitzed Brissett on multiple of his big throws. They might give up completions rushing 4 but the big downfield strikes are the ones that hurt. At the moment we are going to give up plays whatever we do. That is a talent issue with injuries. So I'd rather make them go 12 plays and hope we get one play from one of our healthy playmakers or a mistake from them.

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They blitzed Brissett on multiple of his big throws. They might give up completions rushing 4 but the big downfield strikes are the ones that hurt. At the moment we are going to give up plays whatever we do. That is a talent issue with injuries. So I'd rather make them go 12 plays and hope we get one play from one of our healthy playmakers or a mistake from them.

Not from what I saw.  The blitzes the Bills ran were mostly run blitzes that Cleveland happened to be throwing the ball. They were not blitzing on most obvious passing downs.

 

Everyone understands you risk getting burned by the blitz, but being largely predicable and rarely blitzing on obvious passing downs is asking for your weakness in this case (the secondary) to get exposed.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Billz4ever

[HOUSE]

Let me think about this 🤔 

[Jerome007]

Of course they need to surprise opponents. The DL was DOMINATING in the first games, but while still good, they don't pressure as much. Klein has not played yet, but he was a good blitzer. Anyway, yes I think they should blitz more.

[Perk71]

3 hours ago, Toledo Bill said:

Thanks for the sarcasm Mr. Expert.

And yes I have seen every game since the Bill’’s inception.

He did give you an opinion (which you asked for) in his answer 🤷🏼

 

Go Bills!!

[LABILLBACKER]

I think we'll have to dial up a few more blitzes the remainder of the season because of Groot's injury and little production from AJE/ Boogie. Obviously Milano has the biggest impact on blitzes but we gotta get some dbs home on the blitz too. Really disappointing neither Boogie or AJ seem to have much with pass rush skills...

2 picks we could've used on OL?

[MJS]

Do whatever you need to do to beat the offense. If that means you need to blitz, fine. If that means dropping into coverage, great. Scheme to beat the individual opponent.

[JerseyBills]

Detroit is quietly a very good O and I think we have the personnel to blitz more.

 

I think the Bills are strictly looking at how to win a SB and when Tre. Groot. Edmunds and Elam are back in January, they'll have much more options with the blitz and expect them to use it more. 

[Sestak4ever]

Need a healthy secondary and a minimum two score lead. Hopefully our defense can execute blitzes better than our offense executes screen plays.

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, Toledo Bill said:

If Groot is out and Espenesa (who looks like a bust) is out and Basham is not impressing on pass rushing should we revise our strategy regarding blitzing?Our tackles have not been generating a lot of pressure and Miller is constantly doubled.

That was a great blitz last week with Milano coming on the outside of Miller. 
I am concerned that Detroits offense will kill us with a lack of pass rush and the way our corners are playing. Looking for opinions.

I’d rather them stop giving the opposing receivers 5 yd cushions 

[UConn James]

13 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I’d rather them stop giving the opposing receivers 5 yd cushions 

Bills have been doing that for a very long time, through multiple GMs, coaches, owners, and even when we had Clements and Winfield. There’s always 5-10 yards of free space for WRs / TEs whenever we line up. I’ve seen other teams cover closer before the snap, but even when we would get dunked and dunked on quick outs in that gap space, we’d keep doing that. I dunno. 
 

As for the OP topic, I rarely see the blitz actually work in the McD-Frazier D. If it’s Edmunds, he just runs directly into a blocker… like he’s LOOKING to engage rather than actually get PAST them. And then the QB often hits a pass in the middle where he would have been. It really boggles the mind. There are times in the past two years where we literally blitzed 8 guys and still got stood up by the opponent’s OL and a chip from a RB. Granted our DLine last year and before was 🐕💩, but one might think 8 blitzers could get home, but they wouldn’t. ESPECIALLY when it was against Ratrick kittyfoot Mahomes

[Mc1320]

Yes - you wonder why we are giving up all these long plays on 3rd and 4th down?
 

When the front 4 doesn’t get there and you continually drop 7 at some point a reviver will get open down the field past the sticks.

[BuffaloMatt]

MMMMM cheese blintz. 

[freddyjj]

Imagine Frazier will make this game plan specific.  Goff really struggles with pressure as completes only 45% of throws and has a 50 point lower QB rating vs pressure.  

 

Pressure him and it should pay off

[nosejob]

6 hours ago, Toledo Bill said:

If Groot is out and Espenesa (who looks like a bust) is out and Basham is not impressing on pass rushing should we revise our strategy regarding blitzing?Our tackles have not been generating a lot of pressure and Miller is constantly doubled.

That was a great blitz last week with Milano coming on the outside of Miller. 
I am concerned that Detroits offense will kill us with a lack of pass rush and the way our corners are playing. Looking for opinions.

Well if anyone watched the last couple of games of us making the QBs look like Brady and Manning, I think the answer is obvious. We play teams with one good receiver and they get damn near 200 yds....ummm yeah, I would guess dialing up some pressure would be in order. As a matter of fact, I think this subject may have been covered.

[BillsFan130]

4 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Not from what I saw.  The blitzes the Bills ran were mostly run blitzes that Cleveland happened to be throwing the ball. They were not blitzing on most obvious passing downs.

 

Everyone understands you risk getting burned by the blitz, but being largely predicable and rarely blitzing on obvious passing downs is asking for your weakness in this case (the secondary) to get exposed.

Yep thank you.

 

I stated that multiple times during the game day thread.

 

The blitzes they got burnt on were run blitzes on 1st and 2nd downs , not on 3rd and longs 

[Solomon Grundy]

55 minutes ago, UConn James said:

I’ve seen other teams cover closer before the snap, but even when we would get dunked and dunked on quick outs in that gap space, we’d keep doing that. I dunno. 

This is why Zach Wilson looked like an All Pro against us this year. I wish Leslie Frazier would recognize this and adjust

[EmotionallyUnstable]

6 hours ago, wppete said:

Need to start mixing it up. Stop playing such a vanilla and predictable Defense. We need more blitzes and stunts upfront. 

I would be more inclined to think this way if they were getting home when they blitz/stunt. They don’t appear to be any more successful in rushing the QB than when they rush 4. My biggest issue up front is when they swap DE/LB roles and drop Boogie Basham or some rando into coverage. It almost never works.

 

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The complexity of this defense is on the backend. That is how they are schemed and designed. They have had to dial that back somewhat with the injuries. They are not designed to be super exotic up front. Jumping to that mid-season would be an ill advised desperation move IMO. 

Actually I’ve found that as of late, they’ve been really bad with these stunts. They do wreak havoc, but as we’ve seen, a calm and collect QB (even Brissett) can take advantage of their undisciplined rush when they are over aggressive up front. 

 

1 hour ago, Mc1320 said:

Yes - you wonder why we are giving up all these long plays on 3rd and 4th down?
 

When the front 4 doesn’t get there and you continually drop 7 at some point a reviver will get open down the field past the sticks.

 

The issues on the defense are not up front IMO. The back-end has been brutal. CBs are not in position to make plays. When they are in phase, technique has been poor. I’d pay good money to know what McD and Fraiser teach these guys about playing the ball vs hands while in phase, and also what their trail technique is. We’ve seen a lot more press coverage, and they mixed in a ton of man and zone throughout the CLE game. It hasn’t helped. Guys are out of position, or in position and not making plays, or ridiculous plays are being made on O.

 

Look at the first Cooper TD. We blitz, QB heaves it home, Johnson was beat with his inside leverage and Hamlin was no help over the top. Cooper and Brissett just made a heck of a play.

 

There is no cure-all for their defensive woes. It starts by getting healthy and remaining disciplined in your rushing lanes.

 

With Elam (hopefully) back this week, I expect a ton of man

coverage vs this team, but I don’t necessarily think that means they’ll blitz or stunt more.