Wawrow hints an Internal Issues with the Bills

[JDubya76]

1 hour ago, clayboy54 said:

Sorry for being inquisitive, but what is an Eichel?

White guy with a ginger Afro, loves the booger sugar. Dating the daughter of a friend.

[schoolhouserock]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

All this sudden Dorsey hate is comical

We put up 30 points with 4 turnovers. 

What I find most comical are the rose colored Daboll glasses.

These Bills have slumped before and Daboll received his fair share of the blame. At this time last season, when the Bills were alternating wins and losses (including that wretched Jacksonville game… ugh!) there were PLENTY of message board members that were hoping Daboll would grab a head job and get out of Buffalo.

 

This is who these Bills are. They are the most streaky team in the NFL. When they are on a hot streak, I find myself asking, “Who could possibly stop this team?” When they are on a cold streak, it feels more like, “How did this team ever work?” They are that streaky.

 

Compound this with their ominous playoff record (have won every home game, have lost every away game) and the fact that there’s that guy in KC… I think we can all feel just how big yesterday’s loss was.

 

So the hate is at least understandable… but the rose colored Daboll glasses… I don’t buy that for a minute.

[Big Turk]

23 minutes ago, muppy said:

The fact the Bills are on a TWO game losing skid is very concerning. And if there are issues and internal squabbles and disagreements that would surprise me zero. It is healthier to vent and voice things than to simmer and fester unsaid. These men are Professionals and high achievers. Do they take losing lightly?

 

NOPE nor should they. NFL= Not For Long. Get healthier and things will be better. As far as #17 and his decisions lately I hope he listens to the vets around him and stay OFF social media. 

 

BUT as professionals and as transparent as what I hear and read spoken from 1BD we surely don't know everything being said behind th scenes.. Who is calling out who?

 

It reads that JW is reputable but this kind of tweet alluding to trouble could also be interpreted as clickbait for the disgruntled

 

*shrugs*

 

***correction

 

The last two teams to win the SB were the Bucs and Rams...both of whom had similar stretches in the middle of the year. TB lost 3 of 4 games including a 38-3 blowout to NO and were 7-5. Rams lost 3 in a row including a 31-10 rout by the 49ers and were 7-4.

 

Both recovered and lost a total of one  game after that combined on the way to their SB wins.

 

There is no reason the Bills can't do this. They have the talent to. They just need to stop beating themselves firstly. Because they haven't had another team beat them yet this year in all honesty.

[pocoboy]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The issue with McDermott is simply that he has a hard time getting his team focused in the dog days of the season.    Happens every year.

 

 

I don't think yesterday started like this, but the defense definitely took a turn for the worse once the Bills went ahead 17. The Cook run followed, and you have to wonder how the Edmunds "injury" (announcers were saying he was out on the field horsing around after the Benford roughing call on the sideline) played with the team.

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

I don't think yesterday started like this, but the defense definitely took a turn for the worse once the Bills went ahead 17. The Cook run followed, and you have to wonder how the Edmunds "injury" (announcers were saying he was out on the field horsing around after the Benford roughing call on the sideline) played with the team.

Wow a way to blame Edmunds.  Originality meter pinned on this one.

[Brand J]

5 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

I don't think yesterday started like this, but the defense definitely took a turn for the worse once the Bills went ahead 17. The Cook run followed, and you have to wonder how the Edmunds "injury" (announcers were saying he was out on the field horsing around after the Benford roughing call on the sideline) played with the team.

This is new to me, which roughing call? Do you mean the pass interference? How was Edmunds horsing around? 

[LabattBlue]

Clickbait BS. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

49 minutes ago, mrags said:

Did I not explain it? Dont read much? 

I read your post - it was so absurd, that I wanted to make sure that you actually meant it.

[pigpen65]

Everybody wants to be appreciated for their contributions. Especially when those contributions were above and beyond. I wonder if the $120 million contract to a ringer didn't ruffle some feathers for the vet core who know they were the reason for the turnaround of the entire franchise.

[pocoboy]

6 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

This is new to me, which roughing call? Do you mean the pass interference? How was Edmunds horsing around? 

 

Benford ripped a guy two steps out of bounds and they threw a personal foul. They said Diggs and Edmunds were out talking or something to that effect. I don't remember the exact quote, or if it was Murph/Wood or Davis/Johnston. And maybe they got the number wrong.

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Clickbait BS. 

Agree.   If you're going to say something say it.  

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

The last two teams to win the SB were the Bucs and Rams...both of whom had similar stretches in the middle of the year. TB lost 3 of 4 games including a 38-3 blowout to NO and were 7-5. Rams lost 3 in a row including a 31-10 rout by the 49ers and were 7-4.

 

Both recovered and lost a total of one  game after that combined on the way to their SB wins.

 

There is no reason the Bills can't do this. They have the talent to. They just need to stop beating themselves firstly. Because they haven't had another team beat them yet this year in all honesty.

 

 

There is no reason the Bills can't win on the road in the playoffs...........but they are 0-4 on the road in the playoffs with McD (0-3 with Allen and he played poorly in 2 of those).    

 

Neither the Rams nor the Bucs were the best teams in their conference those years but the difference is that they didn't have a track record of losing on the road like this Bills team has.    McVay and, of course, Brady had both reached SB's playing on the road in prior years.

 

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, schoolhouserock said:

What I find most comical are the rose colored Daboll glasses.

These Bills have slumped before and Daboll received his fair share of the blame. At this time last season, when the Bills were alternating wins and losses (including that wretched Jacksonville game… ugh!) there were PLENTY of message board members that were hoping Daboll would grab a head job and get out of Buffalo.

 

This is who these Bills are. They are the most streaky team in the NFL. When they are on a hot streak, I find myself asking, “Who could possibly stop this team?” When they are on a cold streak, it feels more like, “How did this team ever work?” They are that streaky.

 

Compound this with their ominous playoff record (have won every home game, have lost every away game) and the fact that there’s that guy in KC… I think we can all feel just how big yesterday’s loss was.

 

So the hate is at least understandable… but the rose colored Daboll glasses… I don’t buy that for a minute.

The people that wanted Daboll gone were silly lol that’s very clear.

 

The 2022 Bills are 21st in the NFL in Redzone percentage. That is worse than the 2018 and 2019 years and PART of that is on Kenny

Edited November 14, 2022 by FireChans

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

There is no reason the Bills can't win on the road in the playoffs...........but they are 0-4 on the road in the playoffs with McD (0-3 with Allen and he played poorly in 2 of those).    

 

Neither the Rams nor the Bucs were the best teams in their conference those years but the difference is that they didn't have a track record of losing on the road like this Bills team has.    McVay and, of course, Brady had both reached SB's playing on the road in prior years.

 

 

We still have half the season to play...let's see what happens before we assume the Bills will need to be on the road. Last year many assumed they would lose the division to the Patriots after 12 games.

Just now, FireChans said:

The people that wanted Daboll gone were silly lol that’s very clear.

 

The 2022 Bills are 21st in the NFL in Redzone percentage. That is worse than the 2018 and 2019 years and PART of that is on Kenny

 

The lack of designed Allen runs is noticeable there. He excelled at those.

[Mr. WEO]

42 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

All this sudden Dorsey hate is comical

We put up 30 points with 4 turnovers. 

 

They put up 6 in the second half.  3 last week.  How did you miss that?  Gotta watch the whole game 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, McBean said:

Let’s hope those internal issues are Brandon Beane finally realizing that Sean McDermott is Doug Collins. I hope Beane takes a look at the 7-2 New York Giants, with way less talent, and realizes what the real problem is. 

Do the right thing Beane and hire a bright offensive minded HC, or we’re going to waste a generational talent in Josh Allen.

This is a dramatic post, but it may be warranted.

 

The funny thing is, I have always assumed McDermott out-ranks Beane in the organizational structure, such that "firing" McDermott is not an option for Beane.

 

I DO think that McDermott could fire Beane though! 

 

I also agree that Beane is the special one here; we need to keep him forever.

McDermott?  As I've said for years, he's expendable.

 

If they want to upgrade him THIS OFFSEASON and go for an offensive genius, I'm all in.

 

We have the talent and structure in place to functionally transition to the new regime.

 

 

3 hours ago, schoolhouserock said:

Wait… I thought LAST week was the week for wild speculation?

John Wawrow is a beat reporter who knows the team really well.  And he's usually pretty fair too.

 

This comment coming from him does NOT qualify as "wild speculation."

 

Comments about what exactly is going on might be wild speculation, but Wawrow has said something is going on over there.  That's good enough for me to assume it's true.

 

To what degree?  Over what?  We don't know.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

Three things not on the same page: McD's vision for the offense, the assets Beane shops for, and Dorsey's game planning.  There's your internal dysfunction.

[What a Tuel]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

There is no reason the Bills can't win on the road in the playoffs...........but they are 0-4 on the road in the playoffs with McD (0-3 with Allen and he played poorly in 2 of those).    

 

Neither the Rams nor the Bucs were the best teams in their conference those years but the difference is that they didn't have a track record of losing on the road like this Bills team has.    McVay and, of course, Brady had both reached SB's playing on the road in prior years.

 

 

I feel like that is a very skewed statistic.

 

1) Without Allen, and probably didn't belong in the playoffs, except by the graces of Cincinatti.

2) Allen's first playoff game

3) Legitimately beat by KC

4) Fluke loss to KC

 

I am not sure I accept that sample as some basis of not being able to win on the road in the playoffs.

 

Similarly, I don't think we are unbeatable at home because we are 3-0 at home in the playoffs

 

1) Beat the Colts

2) Beat the Ravens

3) Beat the Patriots

 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, extrahammer said:

 

I'm sure he's got to manage a relationship with the Bills too. And they probably don't want him spilling secrets. 

He has to answer to his journalistic integrity long before he has to answer to the Bills.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

We still have half the season to play...let's see what happens before we assume the Bills will need to be on the road. Last year many assumed they would lose the division to the Patriots after 12 games.

 

 

Yeah, many did.........but I was not one of them.

 

An easy schedule made it LIKELY that they would finish strong and win the division and get one of the top 4 seeds and get a home wildcard game.

 

Of course they were only the 3rd seed because Cinci intentionally tanked their finale to line themselves up with TN in the divisional round...........the midseason swoon was COSTLY.    

 

The Bills were never really back in the race for the top 2 seeds after the NE/Tampa failures.    Now they are in the trail position again and unfortunately they don't have the pathetic lineup of teams on the tail end that they had last Dec/Jan.    The annual malaise needs to end this week.   The Chiefs have a very easy schedule.    

 

 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, HOUSE said:

This is a diversion away from playing like crap...

I am not buying any of this.

 

Please tell me you aren't suggesting this is deliberately planted disinformation, emanating from the Bills administration itself! 

 

That would be WAY too smart for McDermott and his staff of football coaches.

 

2 hours ago, Floydboy12 said:

I don’t see internal problems whatsoever. The problems are Josh is too careless with the football. I think that is something he is gonna work thru.  The other problem is the defense plays scared in tight games. That doesn’t get fixed as long as Leslie Frazier is DC. 

In what possible position would you be in to see "internal problems?"  

 

They may not exist; they may exist in huge numbers and be a real problem.

Either way, you wouldn't know about any of it.

 

None of us would!  

 

Also, is it not possible for the team to have played poorly, tight, and Josh to have been careless with the ball, at the same time as this inner problem is going on with the team?

 

Why does one situation preclude the other?

 

 

[mrags]

31 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

I read your post - it was so absurd, that I wanted to make sure that you actually meant it.

I honestly don’t know how you read it. Pretty sure Simon deleted it and called it absurd. 

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

The players know they area at a disadvantage with this coaching staff.  They know McD cost them a SB last year.  Now they are baby sitting Tre back when Allen is playing with a bad elbow.  Why is Tre getting special treatment, when Poyer is playing with a bad elbow and a collapsed lung on an expiring contract?  

ALL of these points could possibly be what's behind this story from Wawrow.  

 

Of course, we don't know, but the "problem" might be rooted in something like what you have spelled out here.

 

My guess is that your first comment is the answer--there is a growing mutinous group within the team that has decided McDermott is not going to get it done, and they want to see change.

 

We HAVE to assume some emotional/psychological scarring on this roster from "13 seconds" and what happened yesterday, which in many ways, is a bigger cockup than 13 Seconds.

 

 

[boyst]

18 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Three things not on the same page: McD's vision for the offense, the assets Beane shops for, and Dorsey's game planning.  There's your internal dysfunction.

how do you phrase or term the issues with Josh's execution of the offense? i am concerned that he is still a younger and raw qb who doesn't have the eye in the sky that Daboll was...

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

How in the world do you blame a fumbled snap and a game losing INT on McDermott?

 

I don’t blame the interception on McDermott. I do however blame the fumble on the coaching staff. Allen should have NEVER been put under center at the goal line.

 

The interior o-line was getting blown up the entire 4th quarter. Over and over and over again.

 

He thought it was smart, knowing that the interior line can’t get ANY push, to try a QB sneak? At the goal one?

 

Before the play I turned to my Dad and said “they have to put him in shotgun”. It was obvious.

 

It was also obvious to double cover Jefferson and they didn’t. Benford and others did a good job in single coverage but Jefferson is too good. You NEED two guys on him.

 

It was coaching failure after coaching failure.

[schoolhouserock]

16 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

This is a dramatic post, but it may be warranted.

 

The funny thing is, I have always assumed McDermott out-ranks Beane in the organizational structure, such that "firing" McDermott is not an option for Beane.

 

I DO think that McDermott could fire Beane though! 

 

I also agree that Beane is the special one here; we need to keep him forever.

McDermott?  As I've said for years, he's expendable.

 

If they want to upgrade him THIS OFFSEASON and go for an offensive genius, I'm all in.

 

We have the talent and structure in place to functionally transition to the new regime.

 

 

John Wawrow is a beat reporter who knows the team really well.  And he's usually pretty fair too.

 

This comment coming from him does NOT qualify as "wild speculation."

 

Comments about what exactly is going on might be wild speculation, but Wawrow has said something is going on over there.  That's good enough for me to assume it's true.

 

To what degree?  Over what?  We don't know.

 

 

Fair enough. Here is how I see it:

 

1. Team drops two straight.

 

2. Reporter hints that something is going on in the organization.

 

3. Me: (Sarcastic tone) “You don’t say?” (I say this because there is always something going on when a favorite hits a losing streak)

 

That tweet was beyond useless - it was harmful. Even if Wawrow is 100% right, it is STILL a useless tweet. It told us nothing and has opened the door to yet more wild speculation.

 

I don’t disagree with anyone who says Wawrow is dialed in with the organization. I don’t disagree with anyone who says he will be ultimately correct.

 

It is because of his good reputation that this tweet is trash. He has fanned flames that will make louder the negative noise surrounding this team. I want better than this - I want substance.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I'm sorry but you'll need to explain this one to me.

Like, if Josh were in the Chiefs.

[Einstein]

54 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You are getting carried away with something of little import, IMO.    All the great coaches have had a "bit of a dark side".

 

The things I mention are very important to building chemistry and cohesiveness. I feel it is very important.

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I feel like that is a very skewed statistic.

 

1) Without Allen, and probably didn't belong in the playoffs, except by the graces of Cincinatti.

2) Allen's first playoff game

3) Legitimately beat by KC

4) Fluke loss to KC

 

I am not sure I accept that sample as some basis of not being able to win on the road in the playoffs.

 

Similarly, I don't think we are unbeatable at home because we are 3-0 at home in the playoffs

 

1) Beat the Colts

2) Beat the Ravens

3) Beat the Patriots

 

 

 

 

You feel that way because you are up in your feelings about it.........but the stat is not "very skewed". 

 

0-4 on the road.

3-0 at home.

 

Things can change..........maybe if Kelly and the Bills get to that 5th SB they win one.........maybe if they win the first one they win all of them......or never return to one.    

 

But 0-4 is the scoreboard and you are what your record says you are in the NFL.    

 

Wanting that to change is understandable but whining that the scoreboard is wrong is laughable.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, pocoboy said:

My guess would be Dorsey vs. Allen.

 

Daboll must have been able to speak Josh's language. He seemed to really tone down Josh's worst habits, and maybe even channel them at points where they were needed most (see the end of KC playoff game).

 

Thing is, Daboll was a defensive player, a safety. I could see him being much better at breaking down Allen's tendencies than a former QB who might even approach things from the standpoint of "Gee, I was good, I could make these reads, he should be able to do it on his own too." 

 

I'm not sure ditching Dorsey makes sense, but you may need someone other than Joe Brady to be keeping Allen's head together.

I appreciate you taking a stab at offering a substantive comment, rather than the bulk of the crap in this thread.

 

(Unfortunately, the Kool Aid Kontingent has emerged from their cracks and hiding places and seem to be back today).

 

I am not sure I agree with your idea here, but something involving Allen and Dorsey could make sense.  

 

What is the biggest problem with the team right now?  I would say it's Josh reverting to Year 1 Josh, which in turn has impacted the offense overall, especially with our second half production of pretty much zero in last 3 games.

 

It makes sense to go looking in that direction for what Wawrow is talking about.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

McD appears to have flaws as a HC, but he is light years away from being fired. 

If by "light years" you mean potentially less than half a season, I agree with you.

 

 

[SectionC3]

Here’s my guess.  Everyone is angry and frustrated.  I know (second hand) that offense and defense were at each other’s throats on the plane home after the KC loss last year.  I wonder if some of that animus has carried over into this year, especially when the offense screwed up last week’s game and the D couldn’t close the door yesterday. 

 

And, on top of that, we’re at a point where we have a $17m corner who inexplicably isn’t playing, a WR2 who is out to lunch this year, a mouthy slot receiver who just isn’t cutting it, a franchise QB who is snake bit right now, a bunch of dudes on D (Poyer and Edmunds, specifically) who probably look at White and shake their heads and then wonder why Miller got paid when they won’t.   Add in another catastrophic loss that could be attributed in part to coaching (that’s not where my blame lies, but I can see how some would put it there) and this is probably not a very happy day at One Bills Drive.  

 

The solution to all of this, of course, is winning. 

[What a Tuel]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I don’t blame the interception on McDermott. I do however blame the fumble on the coaching staff. Allen should have NEVER been put under center at the goal line.

 

The interior o-line was getting blown up the entire 4th quarter. Over and over and over again.

 

He thought it was smart, knowing that the interior line can’t get ANY push, to try a QB sneak? At the goal one?

 

Before the play I turned to my Dad and said “they have to put him in shotgun”. It was obvious.

 

It was also obvious to double cover Jefferson and they didn’t. Benford and others did a good job in single coverage but Jefferson is too good. You NEED two guys on him.

 

It was coaching failure after coaching failure.

 

The push is not what caused the fumble though. So you are saying you knew what was coming but what you knew was coming didn't happen. It was a botched snap, not a defensive push.

[Toledo Bill]

Time for the proverbial “players, only” meeting.

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

The push is not what caused the fumble though. So you are saying you knew what was coming but what you knew was coming didn't happen. It was a botched snap, not a defensive push.

I remarked to the person with whom I attend the games that I think there were maybe two snaps under center before the failed sneak.  I think, given the circumstances, the play should have been to try to draw them offside there, and then to attempt to throw the ball once after the delay of game to burn a few seconds (they would have had to have run two plays there) and to have sought a little breathing room.  But hindsight is 20/20.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by SectionC3

[Negan]

There was a reason why Andy Reid fired McDermott in the past.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

In this tweet thread about 4 down John Wawrow hints at possible internal issues with the Bills. 

 

 

This reads as his own comment like anyone on here would make, not that he has any inside info.  This didn’t read at all to me that that he is hinting at anything or that there is a real internal issue.  
 

Just feels like people trying hard to make more of this than it is.  

[Cray51]

4 hours ago, McBean said:

Let’s hope those internal issues are Brandon Beane finally realizing that Sean McDermott is Doug Collins. I hope Beane takes a look at the 7-2 New York Giants, with way less talent, and realizes what the real problem is. 

Do the right thing Beane and hire a bright offensive minded HC, or we’re going to waste a generational talent in Josh Allen.

The real problem is we don’t play in the NFC

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, Negan said:

There was a reason why Andy Reid fired McDermott in the past.

Yeah, and he replaced McDermott with Juan Castillo.  One can only guess that reason is that Andy Reid doesn't know ***** about defense.

 

Juan Castillo is a career Oline coach and never worked on the defensive side of the ball again.  After 2 years of Castillo calling the defense, Andy himself got fired.  

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jauronimo

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The things I mention are very important to building chemistry and cohesiveness. I feel it is very important.

 

 

I actually think there is perhaps a little too much peace and love and acceptance of subpar effort from players to try to build chemistry/culture for a HC who hasn't won a SB............but I don't know for sure if that's the reason they treat him like a substitute teacher for a month or two at midseason every year.

 

But every year they've been competitive they've had this problem.    And it's put them on the road in the playoffs every time.

 

When they play more consistently and secure home field advantage for once, that will cease to be a thing.

 

Just like winning a SB ceased the belief that Andy Reid was the biggest playoff choker in NFL history.    Opposing fans suddenly saw him as great........even though Reid backed up that SB win by losing a SB as a big favorite and produced an all-time second half choke job in the AFCCG last season.

 

[Peter]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

All this sudden Dorsey hate is comical

We put up 30 points with 4 turnovers. 

 

This is very true.