Josh Allen injury update(officially questionable - expected to start per Ian Rappaport)

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

How did Keenum get the Vikings to an nfc championship game if he sucks? Maybe if you put a competent team around him he’ll be fine. 

I do think a week to prepare and he'll look a lot different than preseason....IF he plays 

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

How did Keenum get the Vikings to an nfc championship game if he sucks? Maybe if you put a competent team around him he’ll be fine. 

 

competent team

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

I didn't think Keenum looked that good during preseason.

 

It looked like he lost a lot of arm strength as his balls would flutter.

[NyBob85]

I'm not sure why so many people are talking like this is a guaranteed loss if we start Keenum. You'd swear he was a droopy-eyed armless child and not a very experienced veteran who has tons of experience starting and playing (and winning) in far bigger spots than this. We don't HAVE to win this midseason non-conference game, obviously, but there's zero reason beyond the blind jaded pessimism that we've all adopted as Bills fans over the years to assume it's going to be a loss just because Josh is out. Yeah, the O-Line isn't anything spectacular but they can protect Keenum long enough on enough plays to find any one of our very talented receivers, and hopefully they're working on getting the push they've been lacking and opening up holes for the running game as well. Hines might end up being a very timely trade if we're going to be relying on the run and short passes this Sunday. 

 

Long story short, there's no need to panic and get into doom-and-gloom mode. If Josh is good to go Sunday, great, but I have faith that even Keenum can do enough to beat the Vikings so long as the whole rest of the team (defense especially) show up. Just prepare for a gritty 2014-style, defense-oriented, Kyle Orton type of game where we win 16-10 or something on the back of three Bass FGs and put the house on the under right now before Keenum is officially named the starter, lol. 

[UKBillFan]

16 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Remember his game against Atlanta last year? Similar in ugliness 2 or 3 ints (think he had 2 rush tds that game as well)

Then he played like a HOFer shortly afterward in playoffs 

The Falcons game is probably the closest in similarity to whatever happened against the Jets. Know I’m stuck in a loop but it’s annoying as I thought he’d got over those kinds of errors.

[goldenboy81]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:22 AM, LabattBlue said:

So they don't have cold temps, wind, or rain in KC come January?

I was thinking Miami,L.A, even Tenn 

[Mango]

3 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

There seems to be debate about whether injuring it further is possible.

 

They clearly won't play him if there is risk to injure it further, but if the risk of a tear is the same with the injury and without then he can certainly play.

I started this post before I went into surgery and am finishing this in post op. People don’t do drugs because they suck.
 

I think the big variable in the decision making is will be what percent is Josh now, and what percentage will he be with how much rest. 
 

I actually asked my surgeon what he thought pre op. And he basically said something similar. He won’t get better if he plays on it. So they have to decide if whatever his status is is good enough to win a Super Bowl. He said he’d sit him for a week or two and try and at least get him at or over 90% and rolling with your QB being less than that was a risk. And by risk he meant that it would be tough to win a championship with a QB at 85%. 

[Golden]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK.  I just found it confusing because the authors reference a group with a different name "ProFootballDoc", but Chao IS that group with a different name, so it's like they're trying to give their opinion more clout by referencing themselves as a separate entity  IYKWIM? 

 

Also, Trimble is associated with Chao as one of his "injury spotters", and what Chao says above strongly echos the analysis and conclusions Trimble wrote, but doesn't give him credit or delve into the reasoning behind his conclusion (about the next 3 games being on a short timeline etc etc)

 

Chao was the San Diego Chargers team doctor for many years and was somewhat controversial:

https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2013/4/22/4251626/san-diego-chargers-doctor-david-chao-has-chaotic-past

is a pretty good summary

 

That doesn't mean Chao isn't genuinely very knowledgeable about football injuries, from years of diagnosing and treating NFL football players, but it does mean instead of doing injury analysis as a sideline to a thriving medical or PT practice, it's kind of become his main gig.  So he has a motivation to "milk" injury news to drive clicks, if that makes sense?  And also to try to make his opinion seem weightier and more definitive so more people will read it.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing their analysis, like I said, he is very knowledgeable about football injuries from almost 2 decades of treating (or mistreating, as the case may be) them.

Thanks Beck, GREAT info.  I see what you mean regarding his angle & always thought this was a side gig (he will often reference that his team is “between surgeries”.). Chao is a personable character, he has responded pretty quickly to some of my feed back that I sent.

      In stating the obvious, those closest to the situation (team docs & coaches) would be my point of reference.  McDermott’s “we will use common sense”, is more telling to me than docs watching film & opining. 

[Bongo]

35 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I didn't think Keenum looked that good during preseason.

 

It looked like he lost a lot of arm strength as his balls would flutter.

I usually only get this when I fart. Would lower his fiber intake.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Bongo

[ImpactCorey]

Can WGR hold off on the Tommy John Underwear commercials for a little bit?   They make me a little too twitchy right now.

[KHAN]

As to those making comments on Keenum in the pre-season. My recollection is:

 

Game 1: Played with backups and camp fodder against a starting defense. Not awesome.

 

Game 2: Followed Josh, and got a couple series with the starters, and moved the ball nicely.

 

Game 3: Played with mostly camp fodder against another starting defense. Not awesome.

 

Not sure how you could make much out of that either way. Are we saying Keenum sucks because he didn't elevate guys now working day jobs against NFL starters?

[HOUSE]

New record, 1800 rumors about an elbow

[MasterStrategist]

27 minutes ago, Mango said:

I started this post before I went into surgery and am finishing this in post op. People don’t do drugs because they suck.
 

I think the big variable in the decision making is will be what percent is Josh now, and what percentage will he be with how much rest. 
 

I actually asked my surgeon what he thought pre op. And he basically said something similar. He won’t get better if he plays on it. So they have to decide if whatever his status is is good enough to win a Super Bowl. He said he’d sit him for a week or two and try and at least get him at or over 90% and rolling with your QB being less than that was a risk. And by risk he meant that it would be tough to win a championship with a QB at 85%. 

Appreciate the info, and hopefully your surgery went well.

 

But this is the exact reason why the internet docs (ie: Chao, Banged up Bills, etc) information has to be taken as "good to know", but not gospel.  Nobody knows the exact nature of Josh's injury, except for those docs/trainers closely involved.  Trying to apply, well this happened with guy X in the past, so we should do Y and sit him for Z games/days. 

 

It's good to be educated on the health parameters/factors possibly being considered, but after that it's pure speciation even by the best doctor in the world (unless they evaluated Josh/imaging done).

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

significant?  expected. 

[PatsFanNH]

One question. Do you think the Bills Coach’s will have faith that the O line will stop the Vikings pass rush? I would think with an injury you would want Allen running less and less chance for someone taken a shot or even just yanking that elbow.. 

[HappyDays]

Pretty much what I expected.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

 

 

 

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I didn't think Keenum looked that good during preseason.

 

It looked like he lost a lot of arm strength as his balls would flutter.

It's bc we have been spoiled watching Allen throw the ball 😆 

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Pretty much what I expected.

 

Highly doubt a day-to-day player misses more than one game.

[What a Tuel]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Still aggressive decision making.

 

vs GB, one was a short pass at the goal line.  He had McKenzie wide open on the R.  Early in the play, I think a plausible pass to Cook short of the goal line but trust an RB to make it in.    But Josh  was locked onto Gabe Davis who was coming across the back of the endzone, well covered by Zaire Alexander. 

 

"I was trying to dirt it" c'mon Josh, if you want to dirt a ball, throw it towards the R sideline, McKenzie was there and had the defender boxed out behind him like a basketball guard, Safe.  Or just throw it through the back of the endzone, as you say, it was a short pass from the GB 3 yard line.  It's 3rd down, we get a field goal and kick off.

 

A decision to dirt it in the crowded middle of the field was a stupid decision.

 

So was a decision to "float" a ball to Knox when Josh acknowledges he didn't have a clear view of the field because a DE was in his way.    It was 2nd down.  Throw it away, 3rd down.  Or throw on an arc to Knox and trust him to make it "his ball or no one's ball". 

 

Someone will no doubt hate this analogy, but it's like a hunter shooting a cow or a dog (or worse, a person) and excusing him or herself because he didn't have a clear view of the shot, there was a tree in the way.  "Be Sure of Your Target" is Gun Safety 101: "You're responsible for knowing what's in front of your target, near your target and beyond your target. If you aren't certain about any of the three, don't take the shot."

 

I think thats a gross misinterpretation. He didn't say he threw it blind, he said he thought the DB was "sucked in" and Knox was by himself. It just so happened that the DE obscured the DB. Should he have seen it? Of course.

 

Still I don't agree that the majority of these are bc he is trying to move mountains rather than taking what's given to him. Just a series of poor decisions.

 

 

 

[sunshynman]

4 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

You sir are a penile ballsack!

 

/s

Edited November 10, 2022 by sunshynman

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

Sheesh settle down, Britt 

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Highly doubt a day-to-day player misses more than one game.

Hasn't Tre White been called "day to day" by McDermott and missed more than one game since that declaration was first made?

[Billever76]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

I was merely stating the common sense of it all. Your entire Super Bowl season hinges on the health of Josh Allen and you think they are actually going to push him out there less than a week after tearing something in his elbow. Yes, I am quite confident he will not play and why you insist on taking this to leaving the board and bringing up embarrassment is quite strange, very strange actually.

He didn't tear anything 

[Process]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Highly doubt a day-to-day player misses more than one game.

I highly doubt McDermott calling him day to day means anything at all. Not when it comes to Josh.

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Highly doubt a day-to-day player misses more than one game.

 

This is one case where I wouldn't necessarily take McDermott's word for it. There is no reason for him to say anything else about Allen's status.

[transplantbillsfan]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Pretty much what I expected.

 

Notice the wording.

 

This isn't sourcing.  It's a guess.  

 

When McDermott held Allen out yesterday he was more than likely to hold Allen out today and probably even tomorrow.  The key will be the injury report tomorrow as that will be the best hint.  We already know McDermott said he's taking things "day-to-day" with Allen and said "we'll see" in reference to Allen playing Sunday.  Allen didn't practice yesterday and isn't practicing today so unless he fell/falls down the stairs or something, he hasn't and won't suffer a setback.  So the question will be how he's looking tomorrow and more importantly how he's feeling Sunday.

 

Allen could still not play Sunday.  I still think he will while also thinking he won't practice tomorrow, either.

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, Gene1973 said:

We don't know that. A sprain can include tearing. We haven't been given this information.

A sprain is tearing, by definition.

 

 

[Billever76]

16 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

I wouldn't go that far. Cutting Gabe Davis and/or Isiah McKenzie would be ideal if we bring in OBJ. In regards to Josh, I  think it is fair to expect Allen to miss several games and an outside chance of him missing the season.  The worst case scenario is he has surgery which could be brutal

Out of everything leaked and what the players and team is saying...what possibly leads you to think that?...I mean atleast come up with a logical explanation behind your WRONG opinion 😆 

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

We don't know that. A sprain can include tearing. We haven't been given this information.

 

It's 99.9% a Grade I Sprain which is a micro tear.  He missed 4 games with a Grade II Sprain his rookie year and this is not remotely close to as bad as that.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Big Turk

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Notice the wording.

 

This isn't sourcing.  It's a guess.  

 

When McDermott held Allen out yesterday he was more than likely to hold Allen out today and probably even tomorrow.  The key will be the injury report tomorrow as that will be the best hint.  We already know McDermott said he's taking things "day-to-day" with Allen and said "we'll see" in reference to Allen playing Sunday.  Allen didn't practice yesterday and isn't practicing today so unless he fell/falls down the stairs or something, he hasn't and won't suffer a setback.  So the question will be how he's looking tomorrow and more importantly how he's feeling Sunday.

 

Allen could still not play Sunday.  I still think he will while also thinking he won't practice tomorrow, either.

I’d be curious if McD has ever played someone without that player getting any practice reps/game install during the week? Not saying he hasn’t or wouldn’t, especially with Josh, but that doesn’t seem to fit with his cautious approach to player health.

[Billever76]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

A sprain is tearing, by definition.

 

 

A sprain is also stretching by definition 

[Big Turk]

16 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

I wouldn't go that far. Cutting Gabe Davis and/or Isiah McKenzie would be ideal if we bring in OBJ. In regards to Josh, I  think it is fair to expect Allen to miss several games and an outside chance of him missing the season.  The worst case scenario is he has surgery which could be brutal

 

Where do people come up with this nonsense?  Dude...go back to playing Madden and let the people who do this in real life handle real life.

[Logic]

I officially predict that Josh misses three games.

I know, I know, I'm such a jerk.

This team is very cautious with injuries, and we're talking about the throwing arm of the franchise QB here.

I think the Bills feel like they can potentially win the next three games WITHOUT Allen. They brought in a guy like Case Keenum for a reason. 

If the Bills can go 2-1 without Allen over the next three games -- and I really feel like the Browns and Lions games, in particular, are winnable with Keenum under center -- they'll be in good shape.

[transplantbillsfan]

Just now, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I’d be curious if McD has ever played someone without that player getting any practice reps/game install during the week? Not saying he hasn’t or wouldn’t, especially with Josh, but that doesn’t seem to fit with his cautious approach to player health.

 

Ever consider that sitting him out all week from practice may actually be the cautious approach itself?

 

It's all still speculation on what Josh's injury is and it's automatically going to the things that aren't even the least common denominator, which is basically temporary nerve displacement during the game, which would have resulted in that tingly funny bone feeling you get in your arm and hand.  Those resolve themselves pretty quickly.

 

I'm not saying that is what happened.  But it's one of the potential results that no one is talking about.

 

And if it is that, I could see McDermott still sitting Josh all week just out of an abundance of caution while still planning/hoping to play him on Sunday.

 

I just think it's odd that absolutely everyone seems to know what his injury is.  All we know is what we saw on Sunday.  A play that looked like it could have been a brutal injury followed by a play where Allen threw the ball and grabbed his elbow and squeezed his hand (almost as if he hit his funny bone) and then followed that up with a 70 yard bomb that didn't seem to cause him all that much pain as you watched him after the play and in the PC.

 

Regardless of anything, Allen could miss this week's game.  I still think he plays but I absolutely could see McDermott sitting him thinking it's not a conference game so it doesn't matter as much.  But I don't remotely think Allen would miss more than 1 game if it happens.

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

I officially predict that Josh misses three games.

I know, I know, I'm such a jerk.

This team is very cautious with injuries, and we're talking about the throwing arm of the franchise QB here.

I think the Bills feel like they can potentially win the next three games WITHOUT Allen. They brought in a guy like Case Keenum for a reason. 

If the Bills can go 2-1 without Allen over the next three games -- and I really feel like the Browns and Lions games, in particular, are winnable with Keenum under center -- they'll be in good shape.

 

He will miss one game if that and that is only because they ARE abundantly cautious.  Half the teams in the NFL would probably start him.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Big Turk

[UKBillFan]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

I officially predict that Josh misses three games.

I know, I know, I'm such a jerk.

This team is very cautious with injuries, and we're talking about the throwing arm of the franchise QB here.

I think the Bills feel like they can potentially win the next three games WITHOUT Allen. They brought in a guy like Case Keenum for a reason. 

If the Bills can go 2-1 without Allen over the next three games -- and I really feel like the Browns and Lions games, in particular, are winnable with Keenum under center -- they'll be in good shape.

 

My concern with the Browns game is Hunt and Chubb unless we tighten up on execution with the run defense. If it becomes a shoot out a lack of Josh might cost us. And Minnesota have Cook. We shut Henry down brilliantly earlier in the season and have to get back to that.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

There's a dude in this thread that said we should cut Gabe Davis if we sign OBJ

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Where do people come up with this nonsense?  Dude...go back to playing Madden and let the people who do this in real life handle real life.

he’s just here to become the worst poster in the history of the board.