Need upgrades at WR

[Playoffs?]

2 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I think McD is too stubborn when it comes to playing rookies. Shakir needs to take over the slot role. McKenzie is a gadget player, and the experiment needs to end. Shakir might not be the guy, but we need to find out. 

Couldn’t agree more. Overall, Shakir has looked fine. Give him more playing time. It can’t be much worse than McKenzie’s play!

 

Same can be said for Cook. He was more involved today… this needs to continue.  I liked how he ran with the ball today. 

[hemma]

I hope Hines is hunkered down right now learning the playbook, because we need help.

Different side of the ball - time to play Tre.

 

We need consistent playmakers and it doesn’t look like Knox, McKenzie or Davis are kicking in enough.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Shakir should be thrown into a much bigger role. He has done nothing but make plays with the ball in his hand and reminds me of 2010 Stevie Johnson. Will it happen? Seriously doubt it.

[Mr. WEO]

49 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Outside of Diggs, who is playing better this year than I've ever seen him, we got next to nothing out of our weapons today. Allen was both the primary issue on offense today AND the only reason we were able to move the ball and score. That's a big problem. Our RBs couldn't rip off big runs, we had zero screen game, no big run after the catch on a single completion.

 

Making Davis the #3 won't increase his production necessarily but it will increase the production of the passing offense as a whole. In fact I think it's arguable he would see his own production increased because we can use him in his preferred role as a vertical only WR who takes advantage of openings created by our other weapons.

The Demise of Gabe Davis is a bit of overwrought pearl clutching.  
 

Josh struggled to hit his receivers today.  A bad day. 
 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Steel City Mafia said:

Absolutely. Gabe can’t get open. 

Gabe is a complete inconsistent mess right now. Knox, McKenzie & Shakir have been non factors. It's basically Diggs or nothing. Josh's confidence is suffering right now. Yes we somehow scratched out a win v GB but that 2nd half was like rookie Josh yet worse. Hopefully he clears his head and rests that elbow. If we don't stop losing defensive players, it won't matter what condition the offense is in. 

[Bob in STL]

Today is the day I join the OBJ crowd. 

 

1- Diggs is a star and will draw double coverage. 

 

2 - I don't understand Davis.  He disappears for games at a time.  Good CBs can cover him and take him out of the game. 

 

3 - They miss a reliable guy like Beasley in the slot (the Beasley of a few years back).  Crowder did not do the job.   McKenzie is not a slot guy and would be better as the 4th WR and gadget guy.  

 

4 - Shakir looks promising but not getting many targets.  For some reason the TE's don't get targeted much either.  

 

5- Kummerow is an emergency plug-in WR, plus Special Teams. 

 

OBJ can help.  

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Gabe is a complete inconsistent mess right now. Knox, McKenzie & Shakir have been non factors. It's basically Diggs or nothing. Josh's confidence is suffering right now. Yes we somehow scratched out a win v GB but that 2nd half was like rookie Josh yet worse. Hopefully he clears his head and rests that elbow. If we don't stop losing defensive players, it won't matter what condition the offense is in. 

2…….games

[Niagara Dude]

5 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

I hate to say it, but losing Beasley and Sanders has hurt the Bills offense. The dropoff between Beasley and McKenzie has been huge. Since put in the #2 WR role, Davis hasn’t had the same kind of production. 
 

Hopefully Von’s recruitment of OBJ will payoff as we need a #2 WR. If that happens and Davis goes back to being a #3 WR, hopefully his production will go up. In regards to the slot receiver position, hopefully Hines will be used more in that role as McKenzie has underperformed in that role so far this season.

Yet we have fans saying were fine at WR and don't need OJB.  Allen was bad but show me receivers that were creating separation , he almost always ends up passing to RB'S as check downs

Edited November 7, 2022 by Niagara Dude

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 minute ago, Bob in STL said:

Today is the day I join the OBJ crowd. 

 

1- Diggs is a star and will draw double coverage. 

 

2 - I don't understand Davis.  He disappears for games at a time.  Good CBs can cover him and take him out of the game. 

 

3 - They miss a reliable guy like Beasley in the slot (the Beasley of a few years back).  Crowder did not do the job.   McKenzie is not a slot guy and would be better as the 4th WR and gadget guy.  

 

4 - Shakir looks promising but not getting many targets.  For some reason the TE's don't get targeted much either.  

 

5- Kummerow is an emergency plug-in WR, plus Special Teams. 

 

OBJ can help.  

I'd say we are missing Crowder. I'd take him in a heartbeat right now. For me the Mckenzie experiment is over. There was a reason Beasley had so many catches from Allen. We need a slot reciever, we don't have a reliable option right now. Davis has been frustrating, his drops and disappearing acts aren't working for the offense. I'd say roll out Shakir more in the slot and see how it works, cuz we need a spark.

[Niagara Dude]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Some of us have been beating the OBJ drum regularly, all season long.

Now you see why.

 

 

Amen,  you had some people thinking Shakir was going to lead us.  They need to get OJB sun here ,  this is why Miller and White have been calling him.  They know,

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Is there anyone opposed to OBJ taking Shakir reps? Anyone? 

[JoshAllin]

Gabe Davis is good at catching wide open passes but when it comes to contested catches he drops every damn thing and is nowhere to be found on the field. I wouldn't mind an upgrade of someone who can catch these non wide open passes as well

[Scott7975]

Yep.  Bills need to aggressively go after OBJ and hope he can play.  This WR core isnt cutting it.  Davis is a disappointment and not a #2. McK is McK.  People think Shakir is going to be better but hes actually done nothing and yes, he is getting snaps.  Knox is invisible.

 

Either Dorsey's offense sucks, Josh isnt reading the field, or our WR's are just that bad.  Either way they need another talent opposite Diggs because Davis aint it.  Double Diggs and man Davis and our O goes nowhere.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Scott7975

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

I think McD is too stubborn when it comes to playing rookies. Shakir needs to take over the slot role. McKenzie is a gadget player, and the experiment needs to end. Shakir might not be the guy, but we need to find out. 

 

How many snaps has Shakir had? How many routes has he run? 

How many targets has he gotten in the last 2 games? How many receptions does he have on those targets?

 

C'mon man.  Shakir isn't sitting on the bench growing cobwebs. 

 

 

[GreggTX]

I don't see how adding WR's is going to improve the awful blocking up front.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

The Demise of Gabe Davis is a bit of overwrought pearl clutching.  
 

Josh struggled to hit his receivers today.  A bad day. 
 

 

He did have two bad drops that both ended drives.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yes well there are DTd to be drafted in the top 10.

 

Whatever you do don't draft a physical freak WR because...route tree or something 

[BananaB]

People are starting to realize. Last week when this was posted a lot of people laughed and thought it was garbage. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

10 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

 

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

10 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

 

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

10 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

 

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

10 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

 

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

10 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

 

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

10 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

 

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

[Alphadawg7]

39 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

The Knox contract is looking worse by the game

No it’s not.  Your ability to analyze TE play is though.  

[Gunsgoodtime]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No it’s not.  Your ability to analyze TE play is though.  

Thank you for quoting the obvious point 6 times.  Nice comeback.  Shows your ability to think

Edited November 7, 2022 by Gunsgoodtime

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Not a WR1 or WR2. He’s an occasional deep ball WR. 
 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

I know a lot of people on TBD didn't like Beasley but McKenzie/Shakir haven't come close to matching his production (82 catches last season).  There is an art to playing slot and Mck/Shakir don't have it.  Shakir may develop into a fine slot receiver but as a rookie he looks lost out there. 

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I know a lot of people on TBD didn't like Beasley but McKenzie/Shakir haven't come close to matching his production (82 catches last season).  There is an art to playing slot and Mck/Shakir don't have it.  Shakir may develop into a fine slot receiver but as a rookie he looks lost out there. 

 

 

I was a big Beasley fan.  He was great in the slot, not many better.  I feared this would happen when we did not retain him.

[BananaB]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I know a lot of people on TBD didn't like Beasley but McKenzie/Shakir haven't come close to matching his production (82 catches last season).  There is an art to playing slot and Mck/Shakir don't have it.  Shakir may develop into a fine slot receiver but as a rookie he looks lost out there. 

 

 

Shakir has hardly seen the field. His only game where he got a decent amount of snaps our O looked the best it has all season.

 

McKenzie was suppose to fill that roll and he isn’t working out. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

He did have two bad drops that both ended drives.

 

He has only 38 targets, yet 451 yards for a whopping 25 YPC and 18.4 YAC.  He has 3 drops all season and 4 of his intended targets were INTs tossed by Josh.

 

But yes, by all means, a demotion is in order....

[Dablitzkrieg]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

How many snaps has Shakir had? How many routes has he run? 

How many targets has he gotten in the last 2 games? How many receptions does he have on those targets?

 

C'mon man.  Shakir isn't sitting on the bench growing cobwebs. 

 

 

9 snaps for Shakir.  He's growing cobwebs

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He has only 38 targets, yet 451 yards for a whopping 25 YPC and 18.4 YAC.  He has 3 drops all season and 4 of his intended targets were INTs tossed by Josh.

 

But yes, by all means, a demotion is in order....

Oh look stats and not even advanced ones. He's MIA for two weeks now and dropping critical balls.

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He has only 38 targets, yet 451 yards for a whopping 25 YPC and 18.4 YAC.  He has 3 drops all season and 4 of his intended targets were INTs tossed by Josh.

 

But yes, by all means, a demotion is in order....

He had two drops yesterday, or do they not count as drops when the ball hits you right in the chest? Do ya gotta have your hands on it for it to be a drop. Either way he’s playing terrible. We don’t need a 25 yard a catch average, we need the basic plays to be caught to move the chains. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

He had two drops yesterday, or do they not count as drops when the ball hits you right in the chest? Do ya gotta have your hands on it for it to be a drop. Either way he’s playing terrible. We don’t need a 25 yard a catch average, we need the basic plays to be caught to move the chains. 

 

These are his stats.  Take it up with the provider if you disagree with them.

 

Davis needs more targets, plain and simple.

5 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Not a WR1 or WR2. He’s an occasional deep ball WR. 
 

 

 

who do you think taught him that clapping technique?

[BananaB]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

These are his stats.  Take it up with the provider if you disagree with them.

 

Davis needs more targets, plain and simple.

So more balls can hit the ground? 46% catch rate. He’s needs to play better before he gets more targets

Edited November 7, 2022 by BananaB

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, BananaB said:

So more balls can hit the ground? 46% catch rate. He’s needs to play better before he gets more targets

 

Everyone but Diggs needs to "play better".  

[BananaB]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Everyone but Diggs needs to "play better".  

Pretty much…. Allen was bound to have a bad stretch when he only has 1 guy performing. 

[FilthyBeast]

19 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

I hate to say it, but losing Beasley and Sanders has hurt the Bills offense. The dropoff between Beasley and McKenzie has been huge. Since put in the #2 WR role, Davis hasn’t had the same kind of production. 
 

Hopefully Von’s recruitment of OBJ will payoff as we need a #2 WR. If that happens and Davis goes back to being a #3 WR, hopefully his production will go up. In regards to the slot receiver position, hopefully Hines will be used more in that role as McKenzie has underperformed in that role so far this season.

 

I don't know what type of dirt McKenzie has on this organization, but he should have never been resigned again and again when he's proven that he's a marginal NFL player whose ceiling is exactly what's it's been every year here.

 

Still not sure OBJ would make much a difference either also coming off a serious injury that he's not even 12 months removed from yet.

[Milanos Milano]

Lol I see Davis has learned a lot at McD U . That was horrendous technique, wtf is he doing? 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I know a lot of people on TBD didn't like Beasley but McKenzie/Shakir haven't come close to matching his production (82 catches last season).  There is an art to playing slot and Mck/Shakir don't have it.  Shakir may develop into a fine slot receiver but as a rookie he looks lost out there. 

 

 

 

2nd pick shakir is wide tf open and allen never even looked to that side of the field.  He had very poor eye discipline in this one and it showed.  He didn't manipulate the jets at all when they played zone, it was actually quite the opposite.  

[whorlnut]

3 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I don't know what type of dirt McKenzie has on this organization, but he should have never been resigned again and again when he's proven that he's a marginal NFL player whose ceiling is exactly what's it's been every year here.

 

Still not sure OBJ would make much a difference either also coming off a serious injury that he's not even 12 months removed from yet.

Totally agree. I was very vocal from the beginning about hating the McKenzie signing. I figured it would eliminate any chance we had at getting a top receiver in the draft and it did. Then again…most of the top guys were gone, but sky moore was there. Shakir might pan out, but right now mckenzie is holding this team back. 

[Alphadawg7]

22 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

I hate to say it, but losing Beasley and Sanders has hurt the Bills offense. The dropoff between Beasley and McKenzie has been huge. Since put in the #2 WR role, Davis hasn’t had the same kind of production. 
 

Hopefully Von’s recruitment of OBJ will payoff as we need a #2 WR. If that happens and Davis goes back to being a #3 WR, hopefully his production will go up. In regards to the slot receiver position, hopefully Hines will be used more in that role as McKenzie has underperformed in that role so far this season.

 

I was attacked a lot all off season when I repeatedly said McKenzie was NOT a starting level slot WR.  I repeatedly said that Beasley today is substantially still better than McKenzie.  But this board is fundamentally flawed in player evaluation where the only quality it see is straight line speed.  They think that is the most important skill and that is all they focus on.  But McKenzie isnt tough, doesn't run great routes, can't catch in traffic, cant fight for yards, doesn't win contested catches, and isn't a cerebal player...all things that Cole excelled at.

 

I actually felt that the offense was better off after Davis ascended past Sanders last year, so I wasn't worried about losing him.  I have to say, while Davis has flashed his big play ability again, he is really struggling right now with catching the ball and getting open consistently.  

 

I was always fine signing OBJ, but I didn't think we "needed" too nor did I think we would offer enough money and long enough deal for him to come here anyway.  But, I have to say, with Davis struggling like this, I think signing OBJ is something that we actually should really be considering right now.  

 

But...I will also say this.  Dorsey needs to make adjustments.  Big plays were coming to easy, and he needs to figure out how to get our other weapons more involved like Knox, Shakir, Devin, Cook, and now Hines.  These are all guys who should be utilized better and see us get back to spreading the ball around again instead of just always pushing it down field.  I really thought Dorsey would involve the TE more this year, but Knox only has 1 more target than he did last year.  Knox has been used to pass block a lot, and that has been needed and something he does well, but there are still more opportunities to get him involved.  Especially in the redzone.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

These are his stats.  Take it up with the provider if you disagree with them.

 

Davis needs more targets, plain and simple.

 

who do you think taught him that clapping technique?

 

Davis needs to get open more.  He is not getting consistent separation and has a catch rate of a dismal 54% on the season as a result.  I have been very high on Davis, and thought he had a shot to lead the team in yards and TD's this year with all the attention Diggs gets and his big play ability.  But facts are facts, it can't be over looked he is not getting open like we expected and has had some costly drops.  

 

Personally, I think Davis is struggling with the additional attention he is getting, especially with no one else (like a Beasley last year) being a serious threat elsewhere on the field.  Our slot production is a fraction what it was.

 

Its time to make Shakir a bigger focal point in the offense IMO.  We need someone there to step up, and its NOT McKenzie, to be another threat out there.  Because right now, we just saw 2 of the best secondaries in the league just clamp down on the big play threats of Diggs and Davis in the 2nd halves of these past 2 games and it threw our whole offense out of whack.  

 

We need to pose more of a threat else where to help open up our outside guys.  That includes running the ball and getting the RB's and Knox also more involved in the passing game.  

[Jerry Jabber]

29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I was attacked a lot all off season when I repeatedly said McKenzie was NOT a starting level slot WR.  I repeatedly said that Beasley today is substantially still better than McKenzie.  But this board is fundamentally flawed in player evaluation where the only quality it see is straight line speed.  They think that is the most important skill and that is all they focus on.  But McKenzie isnt tough, doesn't run great routes, can't catch in traffic, cant fight for yards, doesn't win contested catches, and isn't a cerebal player...all things that Cole excelled at.

 

I actually felt that the offense was better off after Davis ascended past Sanders last year, so I wasn't worried about losing him.  I have to say, while Davis has flashed his big play ability again, he is really struggling right now with catching the ball and getting open consistently.  

 

I was always fine signing OBJ, but I didn't think we "needed" too nor did I think we would offer enough money and long enough deal for him to come here anyway.  But, I have to say, with Davis struggling like this, I think signing OBJ is something that we actually should really be considering right now.  

 

But...I will also say this.  Dorsey needs to make adjustments.  Big plays were coming to easy, and he needs to figure out how to get our other weapons more involved like Knox, Shakir, Devin, Cook, and now Hines.  These are all guys who should be utilized better and see us get back to spreading the ball around again instead of just always pushing it down field.  I really thought Dorsey would involve the TE more this year, but Knox only has 1 more target than he did last year.  Knox has been used to pass block a lot, and that has been needed and something he does well, but there are still more opportunities to get him involved.  Especially in the redzone.

Agreed 100%