Hot take: Shakir should be the starting slot receiver going forward

[without a drought]

12 minutes ago, Rubes said:

Taiwan.

 

He was just setting up the 98 yard TD.

[clayboy54]

18 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'd like to see him on P/KR, and back up McKenzie.

...when the wind is not blowing like a hurricane.

[KHAN]

When McKenzie comes back, he'll be the "starter". He's earned it. But Shakir has earned a fair share of the playing time. I'd like it looked at like 1A/1B rather than #1/#2.

 

Crowder will likely be one and done here. But but I like him as possible veteran depth late in the season/playoffs if there are injuries.

[Maine-iac]

The beauty of Shakir is that he is (on paper) roughly the same size as Diggs and possibly faster so he can play inside or outside and that means any place we have an injury he can fill in.  That means even as a rookie he can get on the field and gain more experience which is a great oppurtunity for him and good for us.

[Brandon]

Yeah, he needs to be on the field more.  At the very least,  I'd play him ahead of Crowder,  but I think he'll probably take McKenzie's job as the slot WR by the end of the season if not sooner.  That's no knock on McKenzie at all,  but I think Shakir is going to be better soon if he isn't already. 

[nedboy7]

Going with McKenzie this season.  No way do I put in Shakir ahead of him.  Love Shakir btw. 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by nedboy7

[Rico]

46 minutes ago, Pete said:

Shakir>Crowder and it’s not even close

Well, yeah. Pretty sure Crowder has played his last play for the Bills.

[pigpen65]

I love his deceptive speed. Something about his build doesn't make you think he's going to be fast, but he's fast. Or at least he plays that way. Really seems to be catching defenders of guard with his asked too

[Donuts and Doritos]

But he had a drop. We need OBJ ASAP! 😉

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

I know, I know -- it's early, and you'll say I'm jumping the gun.

I don't care. I've seen enough: Khalil Shakir should be the starting slot receiver going forward, even when McKenzie and Crowder return to full health.

At the very least, he should be splitting reps with McKenzie and seeing more playing time than Jamison Crowder.

He runs great routes. He constantly seems to get open. He has relatively sure hands (one bad concentration drop yesterday not withstanding). He offers run-after-catch ability that this offense often lacks. He has the frame and build to withstand the tough over-the-middle work. 

Aside from all of that, he just passes the eyeball test in a way that the Bills' other two slot options do not. Frankly, he looks like a star in the making.

I love McKenzie as a player and am glad he's on the roster, but has he looked like a dynamic full time slot option to anyone over the first four games? He hasn't looked that way to me. I like Crowder, too. He's a solid, dependable veteran depth option. Again, though: he doesn't seem to pop off the screen the way Shakir was.

I have figured all along that Shakir would be brought along slowly, that he'd be more of a contender for starting duties in 2023 or 2024. Given McDermott's M.O., that still may happen. I don't think it should, though. I've seen enough. He's the best option to start in the slot. The coaches always preach getting the best players on the field, regardless of tenure or pedigree. If they're true to their word, Shakir should start seeing more opportunities. I hope he does.

I’ll say it. Shakir has had 1 good game. You don’t earn the starting spot after that. No.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

About four weeks ago I got flamed in a thread for suggesting that Shakir should be active, instead of carrying 3 RBs into the game. 
 

Time heals all things. 

[LanderPoke]

Was it Crowder or McKenzie that supposedly put Beasley out of a job and was supposed to be a huge boon to the team? Can't remember.

Anyway, yes, play Shakir. He's a darn good football player.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'd like to see him on P/KR, and back up McKenzie.

 

You saw him on P/KR yesterday. 

 

Taiwan Jones was removed after his initial muff cost us a start on the 2 yd line.

Shakir had 1 KR for 34 yds. 

 

On punt returns, he had 3 wave-offs and 1 fair catch, no returns. 

The wave offs resulted in another start from our own 2 yd line (yuck), a "Buffalo Bounce" to the Buff 47, and a short punt downed at the Buff 46.

 

The wind conditions were challenging, and it's better he should wave-off than try to field it and muff, but I can't say he locked down the PR position.

 

[Doc]

50 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Going with McKenzie this season.  No way do I put in Shakir ahead of him.  Love Shakir btw. 

 

Depends on who looks better in practice and when they get a chance on the field.

 

29 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

But he had a drop. We need OBJ ASAP! 😉

 

At least it didn't lead to an INT.

 

10 minutes ago, LanderPoke said:

Was it Crowder or McKenzie that supposedly put Beasley out of a job and was supposed to be a huge boon to the team? Can't remember.

Anyway, yes, play Shakir. He's a darn good football player.

 

Beasley put himself out of a job with the vaccine brouhaha and declining play.  

[Beck Water]

14 minutes ago, LanderPoke said:

Was it Crowder or McKenzie that supposedly put Beasley out of a job and was supposed to be a huge boon to the team? Can't remember.

Anyway, yes, play Shakir. He's a darn good football player.

 

I don't think either of them put Beasley out of the job.  McKenzie had an amazeball game the 2nd NWE game last year - 11 receptions on 12 targets, 125 yds, he high-pointed balls, he laid out for balls, he caught them in traffic, he ran himself open, he looked fantastic.   He did look like "Beasley with no ribs better than healthy i-Mac?  You SURE about that?"

 

But, that was in part the Hoodie's fault.  They stayed in man on McKenzie and he smoked them. 

 

The gouge on them this season was that Crowder and McKenzie were supposed to be hard to cover as a duo, swapping in and out.  Crowder is the crafty zone-beater and McKenzie the man killer. 

 

Shakir has the potential to be both, as well as to be able to line up outside.  But he has to prove it.  Keep in mind Pitts was playing with a depleted and injured secondary.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Beck Water

[Logic]

47 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I’ll say it. Shakir has had 1 good game. You don’t earn the starting spot after that. No.

I understand that point of view.

I'd point to a consistent body of work, beginning in the preseason, and continuing every time he's gotten an opportunity in the regular season.

I think that, in actuality, he'll continue to trail McKenzie in snaps, perhaps slowly approaching a 50-50 split.

Still, I trust my eyes on this one. Shakir is a star in the making. They won't be able to keep him off the field forever, because he'll continue to force their hand.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Logic

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

You saw him on P/KR yesterday. 

 

Taiwan Jones was removed after his initial muff cost us a start on the 2 yd line.

Shakir had 1 KR for 34 yds. 

 

On punt returns, he had 3 wave-offs and 1 fair catch, no returns. 

The wave offs resulted in another start from our own 2 yd line (yuck), a "Buffalo Bounce" to the Buff 47, and a short punt downed at the Buff 46.

 

The wind conditions were challenging, and it's better he should wave-off than try to field it and muff, but I can't say he locked down the PR position.

 

I'm well aware of all of this, and I like what I saw. I think his skills, and particularly his vision, make him a good choice for the position, especially considering it was his first opportunity. Given the conditions, the wave offs didn't bother me. 

 

It's been a revolving door ever since Andre Roberts left, and I think Shakir could really develop into the position. That would be my hope, anyway.

[Luka]

Have been saying since preseason, he should be starting.

[FireChans]

27 minutes ago, Logic said:

I understand that point of view.

I'd point to a consistent body of work, beginning in the preseason, and continuing every time he's gotten an opportunity in the regular season.

I think that, in actuality, he'll continue to trail McKenzie in snaps, perhaps slowly approaching a 50-50 split.

Still, I trust my eyes on this one. Shakir is a star in the making. They won't be able to keep him off the field forever, because he'll continue to force their hand.

Body of work includes camp 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, LanderPoke said:

Was it Crowder or McKenzie that supposedly put Beasley out of a job and was supposed to be a huge boon to the team? Can't remember.

Anyway, yes, play Shakir. He's a darn good football player.

 

Cole Beasley being done is what put Cole Beasley out of a job. It was very evident watching the games last year that he was washed. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Cole Beasley being done is what put Cole Beasley out of a job. It was very evident watching the games last year that he was washed. 

 

Why do you hate Shakir?

[JoshAllin]

Mckenzie has been scoring plenty of td's and also had a wide open one skipped to him, I wouldn't go far into throwing shakir right away into a starting spot over him because he had a nice game against a demoralized steelers team, but he should be on the field for sure

Edited October 10, 2022 by motorj

[Bills2022]

6 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

I'm not going to just bench Mckenzie forever - its a fluid spot as it was before.  Some games it might be a shakir, others mckenzie.  

 

Why?  Shakir is just better than McKenzie. It really isn't close.

[Eastport bills]

I love Shakir and he gets open every play. He’s a good returner and he’s a starter in the slot, hopefully sooner than later. I look forward to defending Diggs, Davis, Knox and Shakir. McKenzie is a jet sweep and depth option. Hodgins has potential and can definitely play at this level.

[Nitro]

Slow your roll om Shakir.  It was a beat up secondary.  Let him develop and give him more playing time as he deserves it.   

[Rocky Landing]

19 minutes ago, Bills2022 said:

 

Why?  Shakir is just better than McKenzie. It really isn't close.

What now???

[Shaw66]

I agree with all the positive comments here, and I disagree with the negative.  Really.

 

1.  I've never been a big McKenzie fan.  Not great hands, not an intuitive route runner.   Love his speed, but that's it. 

 

2.  Someone said Cooper Kupp.   Not to say he's as good as Kupp, but he's the same style - get open, good hands, run after catch.  

 

3.  Crowder was good, better than McKenzie, more like Beas, but now he's gone, at least for several weeks.  

 

4.  Shakir is tough.  He doesn't shy away from those quick slants over the middle that Allen likes to rely on. 

 

5.  Shakir's drop was part of his learning process with Allen.   Allen's anticipation is so good, and his velocity is so good, that receivers need to turn for the ball quickly and expect that the ball will be there when they turn.   On the drop, Shakir was a little slow, and when he turned the ball was on him.  He didn't get regular first-team reps with Allen in training camp or preseason games, although he spent some time with the ones.  It really wasn't until this week in practice that he practiced regularly with Allen.   I'm confident Shakir will learn to play at Allen-speed. 

 

6.  The punt he let go was a great decision.  There's only one thing I want from a punt returner - don't lose the ball.  Especially with an offense that can score from the two-yard line, having the ball is more important than where you have it.   So, when the ball was coming down, Shakir would have had to make a running catch, and the wind was making it tougher.  The smart move was to get out of the way, rather than to try to make a difficult catch.  Ravens got some good bounces and then made an excellent play on the ball.  Still, Shakir did the right thing.   I also like him back there because every punt I've seen him catch, beginning in preseason, he was really sure-handed.  No bobbles.  Ball comes into his arms and stays right there.   That's what I liked about Crowder back there, and that's what we always saw from Hyde.  

 

7.  Decent speed, good open field running ability, at least based on what we've seen so far.  

 

I think the guy is a keeper.   Three weeks ago I was saying there was no need to call him up.  This week there was a clear need, and he showed that he belongs out there.   I think he's the starter, even when McKenzie gets back.  

 

A great find by Beane.   Well, to be honest, I'd say that even Beane would say there was a lot of luck involved.  He's always said Shakir was a no-brainer where they got him.   The great move by a GM would have been to have taken him earlier.   Beane and everyone else let him fall, and finally Beane knew he couldn't wait any longer.  

[HOUSE]

I agree

[FLFan]

He has certainly bought himself lots more playing time.  He looks good.  What struck me most yesterday is his ability to get downfield and make plays from the slot. This is something the Bills have not had with Beasley, Crowder, or even MacKenzie.    I think he can be special.  

[Logic]

The things that pop off the tape for me with Shakir are his toughness/fearlessness over the middle and his run-after-catch ability.

The play last week in the Ravens game where he caught it near the line of scrimmage and proceeded to juke a defender and run for 12 yards and a first down was a thing of beauty.

For a team that has talked as much about getting RAC -- and has put as much effort into manufacturing it -- as the Bills have, they can't ignore what Shakir has brought to the table in this department. He's a legit RAC guy -- he was that throughout his career at Boise St, too. Almost like a running back once the ball is in his hands.

I'm really excited for this kid's future.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Bills2022 said:

Shakir is just better than McKenzie. It really isn't close.

 

Based on what?  One start where Shakir had 3 excellent receptions on 5 targets, a TD, and a 35 yd kickoff return?

We can pop back one game where McKenzie had 4 receptions on 6 targets, a TD, and a 42 yd kickoff return - and only played 3/4 of the game

 

Yes, Shakir looks very promising and his physical attributes give him a higher ceiling than McKenzie, but his playing time is just starting and it's not without flaw.  Let's pump the brakes on the comparisons just yet.

 

48 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

6.  The punt he let go was a great decision.  There's only one thing I want from a punt returner - don't lose the ball.  Especially with an offense that can score from the two-yard line, having the ball is more important than where you have it.   So, when the ball was coming down, Shakir would have had to make a running catch, and the wind was making it tougher.  The smart move was to get out of the way, rather than to try to make a difficult catch.  Ravens got some good bounces and then made an excellent play on the ball.  Still, Shakir did the right thing.   I also like him back there because every punt I've seen him catch, beginning in preseason, he was really sure-handed.  No bobbles.  Ball comes into his arms and stays right there.   That's what I liked about Crowder back there, and that's what we always saw from Hyde. 

 

Just FTR, there wasn't "the punt he let go".  He fielded 4 punts and let 3 of them go, fair caught 1.  One took a huge Steelers bounce, one took a huge Buffalo bounce, and one was neutral.

 

I'm not going to dis on the kid for that, you're right it was tough conditions.  But being sure-handed while only catching 25% of the punts is not what McDermott's expecting, bet on it.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Beck Water

[finn]

8 hours ago, BidsJr said:

The way he plays and moves, I see a lot of Andre Reed in him.

That's interesting. Are you thinking of his Reed-like glide, upright posture, soft hands, and deceptive speed?

[Bimmer323i]

I’m not sure off the top of my head how often were in a 4 wr set but why not have both McKenzie and Shikir on the field at the same time… 

[Xwnyer]

Agree he can get vertical and has speed

[Shaw66]

48 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Based on what?  One start where Shakir had 3 excellent receptions on 5 targets, a TD, and a 35 yd kickoff return?

We can pop back one game where McKenzie had 4 receptions on 6 targets, a TD, and a 42 yd kickoff return - and only played 3/4 of the game

 

Yes, Shakir looks very promising and his physical attributes give him a higher ceiling than McKenzie, but his playing time is just starting and it's not without flaw.  Let's pump the brakes on the comparisons just yet.

 

 

Just FTR, there wasn't "the punt he let go".  He fielded 4 punts and let 3 of them go, fair caught 1.  One took a huge Steelers bounce, one took a huge Buffalo bounce, and one was neutral.

 

I'm not going to dis on the kid for that, you're right it was tough conditions.  But being sure-handed while only catching 25% of the punts is not what McDermott's expecting, bet on it.

My response to "Based on what?" is that Shakir has found open space more consistently than McKenzie while running from wide out as well as the slot, and he has shown better consistency catching the ball - McKenzie's hands have been suspect for years.

 

As for the punts, yes, McDermott wants more punts caught, but number 1, by far, for McDermott is that he wants the play to end with the Bills possessing the ball.  If Shakir is too conservative making plays on the ball, well, they can work on that.  If a guy is too aggressive, he's going straight to the bench, but McDermott doesn't want to risk losing the ball.  

 

I concluded a month or two ago that I don't care how many yards the return man gets or doesn't get; I just want no turnovers.  I'm happy to have Shakir run away from five punts rather than fumble one.  What I like about Shakir is that he gets the ball security issue. 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with all the positive comments here, and I disagree with the negative.  Really.

 

1.  I've never been a big McKenzie fan.  Not great hands, not an intuitive route runner.   Love his speed, but that's it. 

 

2.  Someone said Cooper Kupp.   Not to say he's as good as Kupp, but he's the same style - get open, good hands, run after catch.  

 

3.  Crowder was good, better than McKenzie, more like Beas, but now he's gone, at least for several weeks.  

 

4.  Shakir is tough.  He doesn't shy away from those quick slants over the middle that Allen likes to rely on. 

 

5.  Shakir's drop was part of his learning process with Allen.   Allen's anticipation is so good, and his velocity is so good, that receivers need to turn for the ball quickly and expect that the ball will be there when they turn.   On the drop, Shakir was a little slow, and when he turned the ball was on him.  He didn't get regular first-team reps with Allen in training camp or preseason games, although he spent some time with the ones.  It really wasn't until this week in practice that he practiced regularly with Allen.   I'm confident Shakir will learn to play at Allen-speed. 

 

6.  The punt he let go was a great decision.  There's only one thing I want from a punt returner - don't lose the ball.  Especially with an offense that can score from the two-yard line, having the ball is more important than where you have it.   So, when the ball was coming down, Shakir would have had to make a running catch, and the wind was making it tougher.  The smart move was to get out of the way, rather than to try to make a difficult catch.  Ravens got some good bounces and then made an excellent play on the ball.  Still, Shakir did the right thing.   I also like him back there because every punt I've seen him catch, beginning in preseason, he was really sure-handed.  No bobbles.  Ball comes into his arms and stays right there.   That's what I liked about Crowder back there, and that's what we always saw from Hyde.  

 

7.  Decent speed, good open field running ability, at least based on what we've seen so far.  

 

I think the guy is a keeper.   Three weeks ago I was saying there was no need to call him up.  This week there was a clear need, and he showed that he belongs out there.   I think he's the starter, even when McKenzie gets back.  

 

A great find by Beane.   Well, to be honest, I'd say that even Beane would say there was a lot of luck involved.  He's always said Shakir was a no-brainer where they got him.   The great move by a GM would have been to have taken him earlier.   Beane and everyone else let him fall, and finally Beane knew he couldn't wait any longer.  

Not perceptible on the broadcast was the impact of the wind on the punt Shakir let go.   The wind hung it up and, on the way down, it was moving back toward the LOS.  Really want him to make that catch, but it was the right call to bail on that mess. 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Not perceptible on the broadcast was the impact of the wind on the punt Shakir let go.   The wind hung it up and, on the way down, it was moving back toward the LOS.  Really want him to make that catch, but it was the right call to bail on that mess. 

I agree.   It was not a ball I wanted him trying to catch.  

[Aurelius]

60/40 Shakir to get the snaps.  Love McKenzie but he can also be slotted more to ST stuff.  I love Shakir’s toughness and potential and RAC.  I love McKenzie too but I’m feeling Shakir’s vibe. 

[Beck Water]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

My response to "Based on what?" is that Shakir has found open space more consistently than McKenzie while running from wide out as well as the slot, and he has shown better consistency catching the ball - McKenzie's hands have been suspect for years.

 

So you’re concluding this from basically 55 snaps running with the 1s in 2 games, in which he saw 7 targets?  And another 24 snaps from garbage time?

 

I think Shakir shows every promise of being a solid WR in the NFL, and maybe a very good one.  But all that stuff about “has found open space more consistently” blah blah based on a very small sample size, is IMO “projecting” your own biases and beliefs onto what you see.

 

It’s like the people who are alleging Bernard is so much better than Dodson based on like 41 snaps in “clean up time”.  He may become that, but you really can’t tell that he is right now.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, FLFan said:

He has certainly bought himself lots more playing time.  He looks good.  What struck me most yesterday is his ability to get downfield and make plays from the slot. This is something the Bills have not had with Beasley, Crowder, or even MacKenzie.    I think he can be special.  

I think you have forgotten Beasley's play's so fast....Bease could do all of that....and was the security blanket for Josh Allen.   Shakir looks to be like the next Beas for THIS team.