Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

That's how I understand it, as well. I'm not sure what people are expecting. At this point in the process, the league and the Bills can't really do anything, including sitting him out of a game.

Remember the Sabres player Henrik Tallinder? Yet, they were suspended from the Swedish team. He still played for the Sabres.  Also, unless I am wrong, like Pat Kane, Araiza will just play through it. 

 

"In 2005, Tallinder, and fellow Swedish hockey players Kristian Huselius and Andreas Lilja were investigated on suspicion of sexual exploitation. In March 2005, all three players were suspended from the Swedish national team for one year, with Huselius and Tallinder being released by Swedish club Linköping. Lilja was not suspended by Swedish club Mora, but decided to take a break for the remainder of the rest of the season.

Initially police had dropped their investigation within two days 11 February 2005 when a 22-year-old woman accused the trio of raping her 9 February, because of a lack of evidence. However, a special prosecutor reopened the case in March, leading to the suspensions.  Tallinder and the others were cleared in June of that year."

 

 

[Returntoglory]

If you meet a young lady at a college party and she hits on you and sparks fly, then she tells you she's 18 years old (and has been telling people all night she's 18) and then you have "consensual sex" (and later she admits it was consensual) what have you done wrong? 

[ExiledInIllinois]

If things go sideways, they will cut him.

[UKBillFan]

14 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

If you meet a young lady at a college party and she hits on you and sparks fly, then she tells you she's 18 years old (and has been telling people all night she's 18) and then you have "consensual sex" (and later she admits it was consensual) what have you done wrong? 

From a statutory rape point of view I think you may be right in this case, going on the claims which are circulating. But there is a bigger charge potentially in the offing than that.

15 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

If things go sideways, they will cut him.

For all the arguments about awaiting due process, the Bills have almost said that they believe he is innocent by not cutting him. The issue they had is, if they had cut him and this came out, it’d look like they thought he was guilty. Once this leaked they were caught in a difficult situation where both decisions would tactically imply something.

 

My favoured solution would be to put him on the exempt list until this is sorted. Get him out of the public eye and, if he’s not charged or found not guilty then he can return to play whilst, if found guilty, he can be cut and dealt with to the full extent of the law. I feel very uncomfortable at the idea of him playing for us until this is sorted.

[CorkScrewHill]

18 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Tallinder and the others were cleared in June of that year."

I am confused .. you can be cleared of committing a crime? Are you implying allegation does not always equal guilt?

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

6 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Are you high?

Some week nights and definitely on weekends. 

[BillsFanForever19]

59 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I bet he will punt. It would be pointless for him not to. Him punting would not result in any additional backlash that hasn't already been dealt. If they sit him, that will just bring extra attention. As it stands, he's not been convicted of anything and is allowed to play, so the Bills will let him play.

 

I can't see the NFL or the Buffalo Bills allowing someone being sued and criminally investigated for Rape on the field. 

[QCity]

20 minutes ago, Returntoglory said:

If you meet a young lady at a college party and she hits on you and sparks fly, then she tells you she's 18 years old (and has been telling people all night she's 18) and then you have "consensual sex" (and later she admits it was consensual) what have you done wrong? 

 

"Your honor, I swear she told me she was legal"

[CorkScrewHill]

Just now, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I can't see the NFL or the Buffalo Bills allowing someone being sued and criminally investigated for Rape on the field. 

Per Matt Warren he will play in Carolina.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/8/25/23322695/despite-gang-rape-allegations-matt-araiza-set-to-play-friday-against-carolina-panthers

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I can't see the NFL or the Buffalo Bills allowing someone being sued and criminally investigated for Rape on the field. 

Well, I think you'll see it.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

God you were just asking for it with this post are you doing it intentionally

 

Lol, I could log on and say "Go Bills" and I'd get a warning point.  I don't really worry about it.

 

But are we really saying that he doesn't have a right to pursue an NFL career?  Seems like a stretch to me. 

 

But generally, don't take me too seriously, I am the village idiot on this board. 

[Mango]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is the part I am waiting for more facts on. His attorney is claiming he wasn't even in the house. If there is evidence that he brought her up there specifically to be used by his friends, or even knew what was happening before or after the fact, I obviously want him cut immediately. But based solely on the wording in the lawsuit it is also possible that he took her to bed after seeing how intoxicated she was, left the house, and then several other men at the party took advantage of her. I'm not trying to ascribe likelihood to any scenario. I'm just saying there are not enough facts yet for me to feel confident that Araiza did anything that should end his career today. I don't automatically believe that every single person present at a party where a rape took place is guilty of a crime.

He can’t admit that. If she was so drunk that he felt this strange girl needed to go upstairs and sleep off whatever was going on in safety; she was too drunk to have given consent to basically bend her over the garbage cans outside of the house. 

[ALF]

If the accusation is false can the men counter sue for defamation of character ? 

[BillsFanForever19]

22 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Per Matt Warren he will play in Carolina.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/8/25/23322695/despite-gang-rape-allegations-matt-araiza-set-to-play-friday-against-carolina-panthers

 

Well, damn. According to this article the Bills have known about this for weeks and still went ahead and released Matt Haack and gave Araiza the job.

 

They must have some information that they feel paints all of this in a different light.

 

[SoMAn]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yes I read it, do you even understand what a lawsuit is?  I can literally file a lawsuit tomorrow against you for what ever I want…does it make a true? 
 

A lawsuit isn’t an indication of confirmed guilt.

After reading the lawsuit, it should be a concern. But, the Bills must have known about this prior to drafting him. Did their investigation give them confidence that the claim was frivolous?

Why was no arrest made following the police report and physical exam?

Were the alleged perpetrators ever questioned directly at a police Interrogation room?

Did law enforcement look the other way because they were influenced by somebody involved with the team?

The timing - why is this just coming out now, days after Araiza was effectively named the starter on special teams?

 

If the allegations are true, it's sad for her.  But, if it's all a fabricated B.S. money grab, it's sad for everyone, but especially for actual victims of violent acts.

It wouldn't be the first time a woman has attempted to extort money from a high profile athlete or entertainer.

 

Hope this isn't just the first of several unexpected stumbles in the Bills anticipated Superbowl run.

[YoloinOhio]

19 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

After reading the lawsuit, it should be a concern. But, the Bills must have known about this prior to drafting him. Did their investigation give them confidence that the claim was frivolous?

Why was no arrest made following the police report and physical exam?

Were the alleged perpetrators ever questioned directly at a police Interrogation room?

Did law enforcement look the other way because they were influenced by somebody involved with the team?

The timing - why is this just coming out now, days after Araiza was effectively named the starter on special teams?

 

If the allegations are true, it's sad for her.  But, if it's all a fabricated B.S. money grab, it's sad for everyone, but especially for actual victims of violent acts.

It wouldn't be the first time a woman has attempted to extort money from a high profile athlete or entertainer.

 

Hope this isn't just the first of several unexpected stumbles in the Bills anticipated Superbowl run.

They didn’t know prior to drafting him. They found out on 7/30 that a civil lawsuit was coming and what it was about. They’ve been kept up to speed by araizas attorney. But the lawsuit was just filed yesterday so not sure how much of the details they knew already through the attorney before yesterday. 

[Matt_In_NH]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yes I read it, do you even understand what a lawsuit is?  I can literally file a lawsuit tomorrow against you for what ever I want…does it make a true? 
 

A lawsuit isn’t an indication of confirmed guilt.

 

This is the court of public opinion.  While it is true you can sue for anything it is also true that it is not typical for a 17 year old to go to the police and claim she was gang raped when it did not happen.  People can make judgements about what is reported....look a the DW thing, Browns fans turning in their fan cards, he has not been charged with a crime.   The girl was 17, she went to a party and was in and out of consciousness while a bunch of animals take turns with her...that crap is just crazy.  But I also understand it is common.  There is a huge market for drugs that put girls in this state.  Girls have to make sure they watch they drink at all times, and have a cover on it.  This stuff happens at all colleges.  She goes to the police and they make phone calls with Matt.  Why would he tell her she needs to be worried about chlamydia?  She was 17 and this happened in California....there are no Romeo and Juliet laws.  One way or another he did the wrong thing here....and it sure seems more than statutory.   First telling her to get tested then saying I dont remember anything...yeah right.  How stupid is he for even having that phone conversation?  

[LeGOATski]

8 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

After reading the lawsuit, it should be a concern. But, the Bills must have known about this prior to drafting him. Did their investigation give them confidence that the claim was frivolous?

Why was no arrest made following the police report and physical exam?

Were the alleged perpetrators ever questioned directly at a police Interrogation room?

Did law enforcement look the other way because they were influenced by somebody involved with the team?

The timing - why is this just coming out now, days after Araiza was effectively named the starter on special teams?

 

If the allegations are true, it's sad for her.  But, if it's all a fabricated B.S. money grab, it's sad for everyone, but especially for actual victims of violent acts.

It wouldn't be the first time a woman has attempted to extort money from a high profile athlete or entertainer.

 

Hope this isn't just the first of several unexpected stumbles in the Bills anticipated Superbowl run.

According to the ESPN article posted above, the Bills found out after drafting him, but before releasing Haack and naming Araiza the starter. The point still stands for sure, the Bills obviously felt comfortable with what they found. I can guarantee that detectives in the SCU would care and probably wouldn't be swayed by outside sources to disregard a case, but you never know. I think the fact that they didn't pursue criminal charges after investigating it is telling. They even recorded a conversation between the woman and Araiza. Maybe there is still time to make this a criminal case, but you'd think that would've already happened if it was desired.

[eball]

Interesting side note (and I’m not even going to comment on the allegations one way or the other):  Araiza is not subject to NFL discipline.  His alleged conduct occurred before he was drafted.

 

[unbillievable]

Just like Kobe, Matt better punt like his freedom depends on it.

 

No better way to win the court of public opinion , than to play well.

[galept]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

Interesting side note (and I’m not even going to comment on the allegations one way or the other):  Araiza is not subject to NFL discipline.  His alleged conduct occurred before he was drafted.

 

 

I heard that too. I'll never find it but for what is worth, someone in this massive thread linked articles to players punished by the league (not the team) for conduct before the draft as an argument that this is not necessarily true. 

 

So now I'm confused.

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

One way or another he did the wrong thing here....and it sure seems more than statutory.   First telling her to get tested then saying I dont remember anything...yeah right.  How stupid is he for even having that phone conversation?  

We have no idea how that line of questioning went down. The statement words it in such a way to favor one side, but why would the SCU detectives ask the girl to ask a more direct question in order to confirm they had sex? After she asked directly, Araiza said he didn't remember. Before that, for all we know, it could've been leading questions like "I think I had sex last night, should I get tested?" Any normal person would respond with "yeah, you should probably get tested." The fact is, we have no idea what was specifically asked. And the SCU detectives did not pursue a criminal case after that.

[Since1981]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

If things go sideways, they will cut him.

 

Yes. Remember, Josh is a god and doesn’t punt. Team doesn’t need this guy. 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

We have no idea how that line of questioning went down. The statement words it in such a way to favor one side, but why would the SCU detectives ask the girl to ask a more direct question in order to confirm they had sex? After she asked directly, Araiza said he didn't remember. Before that, for all we know, it could've been leading questions like "I think I had sex last night, should I get tested?" Any normal person would respond with "yeah, you should probably get tested." The fact is, we have no idea what was specifically asked. And the SCU detectives did not pursue a criminal case after that.

Im open to hearing the phone call

[eball]

1 minute ago, galept said:

 

I heard that too. I'll never find it but for what is worth, someone in this massive thread linked articles to players punished by the league (not the team) for conduct before the draft as an argument that this is not necessarily true. 

 

So now I'm confused.

 

It was reported in The Buffalo News this morning.  Can’t imagine they’d print that if not true.

 

[LeGOATski]

Just now, galept said:

 

I heard that too. I'll never find it but for what is worth, someone in this massive thread linked articles to players punished by the league (not the team) for conduct before the draft as an argument that this is not necessarily true. 

 

So now I'm confused.

They can add punishment based on things that occurred before the draft only if the player was in violation again after the draft.

 

So it counts if the player is still misbehaving after the draft, but it doesn't count if nothing happens after the draft

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

Here's what I think.

 

*The Bills knew of a rape accusation, but not the details outlined in the documents, when they released Haack. Their conclusion that it wasn't true was based on incomplete information.

*They had probably previous assured Araiza that they would not cut him, so now they're struggling between public pressure and keeping their word to Araiza.

*The Bills have shown a willingness to stand by players in the past while allegations played out.

*I trust Beane and McDermott to do the right thing, and I suspect they are privy to more information than we the fans are.

*Araiza has admitted to having consensual sex with a girl who told him that she was 18 and attending college. This is per the TV interview with Araiza's lawyer.

 

Having said all of that, I have changed my mind about cutting him. It would be simply unfair. Anyone in this situation should be suspended with pay until the truth is known. How would you feel if you were wrongly accused and it cost you your dream career? Even suspending on allegations alone is morally questionable, but I think it's the fairest option, all parties considered.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Giuseppe Tognarelli

[Buffalo_Stampede]

People wondering why now? The girl still hasn’t received results of the rape kit. This is unbelievable. Something weird is going on.

 

The Bills seriously messed up by keeping Araiza on the team. My only guess is Ariaza is not going to be charged and the other 2 are, which would clear him.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[mjd1001]

I haven't comment until now because for me this is black-and-white.

 

If he participated in a crime, and/OR gave statements that were not true to cover up any kind of investigation, he gets cut.

 

If he didn't participate in a crime, you keep him.

[Mickey]

12 hours ago, appoo said:

Not a medical exam, but what she claimed was her injuries:

 

From the LA Times article

 

The teen “stumbled out of the room bloody and crying. Her nose, bellybutton, and ear piercings had been pulled out, and she was also bleeding from her *****.”

——

 

Also believe there’s a statute of limitations for tort cases in Cali of a year, which makes sense why they filed civil suit now, as the incident allegedly happened in October 

 

 

Actually I think it is 2 yrs. Cal.Civ. Proc. §335.1

[muppy]

blech all this cyber conjecturing is fine. In the meantime though our Bills now need to take time to deal with this, Find another punter?  SMH Something horrific happened to that woman. The court will decide if he is to be held civilly liable. It stinks BAD

 

I wonder what reception mr araiza will receive tonight. I wonder if this off field drama will affect his kicking game in any way. I wonder what the locker room will be like.

 

Just by virtue of the fact he was served a lawsuit and now this tawdry event has been made public araiza will be looked on with suspicion even if he is innocent of these allegations This event makes me feel both sick to my stomach but sad too. Things were falling right into place, roster stacked. He was a consensus fan favorite. Now This. That poor woman. This whole thing SUCKS

 

Boooooooooooooooooooooooooo 

Edited August 26, 2022 by muppy

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It was reported in The Buffalo News this morning.  Can’t imagine they’d print that if not true.

 

It is true. 
 

18 minutes ago, galept said:

 

I heard that too. I'll never find it but for what is worth, someone in this massive thread linked articles to players punished by the league (not the team) for conduct before the draft as an argument that this is not necessarily true. 

 

So now I'm confused.

CBA was updated in 2020

[eball]

1 hour ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

But generally, don't take me too seriously, I am the village idiot on this board.

 

@ScottLaw takes exception to that.

 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, muppy said:

I've booed plenty at Bills games myself. I prefer to boo at referees though. SMH Not to beat a dead horse but the entire story makes me sick. Booing our own players 

YAY 🙂 /sarcasm

same. it's unfortunate to say the least.

[muppy]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Well, damn. According to this article the Bills have known about this for weeks and still went ahead and released Matt Haack and gave Araiza the job.

 

They must have some information that they feel paints all of this in a different light.

 

WHOA. Wow to the first line. I hope so to the second.

87 page thread in less than 24 hours. I am so behind.

[78thealltimegreat]

NFL teams are usually pretty thorough when they do background checks on players so I’m guessing the Bills investigative arm must have talked to first hand witnesses at the party or checked with law enforcement. 

[CNYfan]

11 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Sean McDermott has a teenage daughter. I don't imagine he is too happy about this.

Kim's thoughts?

[1ManRaid]

10 hours ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

It is felony statutory rape, he was 21, she was 17. Doesn't matter if he knew her age or not, doesn't matter if she lied about her age, doesn't matter if she consented to everything, it is STILL felony statutory rape if he had sex with her, anywhere, anytime, under any circumstances, except if they were married. Then it could be rape, depending on the circumstances.

 

I hope you never serve on a jury, because you are literally wrong in the "under any circumstances, even if she lied" bits.

[muppy]

5 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Just saying... You can discount a punter... BUT a gut who can average over 50 yards a punt is a game changer.  

 

As a Bills fan, I gotta wait for more facts to come in and not let my emotions take over. Pat Kane is still playing.  So did Ben Roethlisberger... I was pretty hard on Kane, if more damning facts about Araiza come out, I will be hard on him too. 

 

Bills knew about this in July and still cut Haack anyway... That bodes well, I guess.

The Bills knowing about this and still cut Haack Wow.  It surprises me. That was a gamble they took in araizas favor.. The plot thickens.

[LeGOATski]

Just now, muppy said:

The Bills knowing about this and still cut Haack Wow.  It surprises me. That was a gamble they took in araizas favor.. The plot thickens.

I highly doubt they'd gamble with this. It's just an indicator of where things truly stand on their end.