PFF 10 top coaches...LOL

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so now we all hate pff right?

Not worth hating

[cle23]

3 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

 

In a similarly useful, highly scientific exercise, I am going to rank the best flavors of ice cream but stipulate for the purposes of my rankings that they all have to taste like mashed potatoes.

 

Talk about off-season filler content...

 

 

 

I'm not saying I agree with any of it.  Without context as far as how they getting all their averages, it's complete nonsense.  It would honestly probably still be nonsense with context.  Just wanted to point out that it wasn't a direct ranking of their coaches.

Edited June 7, 2022 by cle23

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Truth be told, I don't think the list is that far off.

 

There is a trend in the league now to hire "genius" OC's as head coaches.

 

Most of the coaches at the top are all former OC's and the DC's are dropping down the list.  I think thats whats driving the ranking.

 

Thats why you have Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, and Sean McVay near the top.  Even Frank Reich is ahead of McDermott.

 

All of those OC's have their own playbook and truly understand offense.  Thats what teams are looking for these days.

 

DC's as HC's could go the way of the dinosaur or at least thats the current trend.

 

Can you imagine Josh having Andy Reid, or Kyle Shanahan or McVay as his HC working under their tutelage ? 

 

I think he would progress far more in his development.

 

Or let me ask the question differently.  Do you all think Mahommes would be who he is today without Andy Reid ?

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Shirley they can’t be serious with a Mike McCarthy in the top 10.

 

Agreed.. Big Mike takes  10-6 team and makes it 8-8. 

 

 

[cle23]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Part of a HC's responsibility is to build a winning roster and develop the talent. 

 

Developing, yes.  Teams have the head coach involved in varying degrees on roster building.  McDermott is a good HC.  I don't think you'd find many people arguing that.  But he also has a hugely talented roster.  And honestly, he was worse last year as opposed to the year before overall, with a better roster.  

 

There is no way to measure any of this so the PFF article is kind of pointless.

[CSBill]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes.  This metric states that Kliff Kingsbury is one of the best coaches in the league.  Mike McCarthy is a top 10 coach and Zac Taylor is currently a worse HC than Lovie Smith.

McCarthy = 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[CorkScrewHill]

4 hours ago, Draconator said:

For those that don't want to click (we salute you)

 

16. SEAN MCDERMOTT, BUFFALO BILLS (8.9 – 8.1 RECORD WITH AVERAGE ROSTER)

 

• Offensive Rank: 20/26 (+12 points scored a season)
• Defensive Rank: 7/26 (-4 points scored a season)

 

McDermott sticks true to his roots as a former defensive coordinator, helming strong units on that side of the ball while not always getting expected results out of his offenses based on talent level.

In fairness it never mentioned whether you could make the playoffs with a dumpster fire roster like in 2017, which somehow miraculously he did and aside from an obvious bad call on the "block' we would have beaten Houston with said dumpster fire team barring a missed FG.

[John from Riverside]

I am wondering if PFF is trying to do some sort of consideration of talent on team.   The bills are loaded.

[Royale with Cheese]

24 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Developing, yes.  Teams have the head coach involved in varying degrees on roster building.  McDermott is a good HC.  I don't think you'd find many people arguing that.  But he also has a hugely talented roster.  And honestly, he was worse last year as opposed to the year before overall, with a better roster.  

 

There is no way to measure any of this so the PFF article is kind of pointless.

 

Yes, PPF is definitely pointless.  In a game that with humans, algorithms may not always apply.

[JDubya76]

PFF’s next article:

 

Asked all NFL Coaches “if you were a tree, what tree would you choose to be”. Then ranked them on how effective that tree would be coaching an NFL team filled with 5’1” Filipinos.

[Doc]

51 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Truth be told, I don't think the list is that far off.

 

There is a trend in the league now to hire "genius" OC's as head coaches.

 

Most of the coaches at the top are all former OC's and the DC's are dropping down the list.  I think thats whats driving the ranking.

 

Thats why you have Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, and Sean McVay near the top.  Even Frank Reich is ahead of McDermott.

 

All of those OC's have their own playbook and truly understand offense.  Thats what teams are looking for these days.

 

DC's as HC's could go the way of the dinosaur or at least thats the current trend.

 

Can you imagine Josh having Andy Reid, or Kyle Shanahan or McVay as his HC working under their tutelage ? 

 

I think he would progress far more in his development.

 

Or let me ask the question differently.  Do you all think Mahommes would be who he is today without Andy Reid ?

 

Yes.  

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Truth be told, I don't think the list is that far off.

 

There is a trend in the league now to hire "genius" OC's as head coaches.

 

Most of the coaches at the top are all former OC's and the DC's are dropping down the list.  I think thats whats driving the ranking.

 

Thats why you have Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, and Sean McVay near the top.  Even Frank Reich is ahead of McDermott.

 

All of those OC's have their own playbook and truly understand offense.  Thats what teams are looking for these days.

 

DC's as HC's could go the way of the dinosaur or at least thats the current trend.

 

Can you imagine Josh having Andy Reid, or Kyle Shanahan or McVay as his HC working under their tutelage ? 

 

I think he would progress far more in his development.

 

Or let me ask the question differently.  Do you all think Mahommes would be who he is today without Andy Reid ?

Reality seems to have proven this wrong. Josh has become one of the best QBs under a defensive-minded HC.

 

Because the truth is that a HC's schematic background doesn't matter at all.

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so now we all hate pff right?

Today

[BarleyNY]

36 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am wondering if PFF is trying to do some sort of consideration of talent on team.   The bills are loaded.

Yes.  They’re trying to control for talent by using Pythagorean wins.  While that metric is more predictive than W-L records, I don’t much care for its use here.  Too much else at play as others have mentioned.  I think PFF does a good job at some things, but this one is pretty poor. 

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

 

Placing the the list where it belongs...

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

In fairness it never mentioned whether you could make the playoffs with a dumpster fire roster like in 2017, which somehow miraculously he did and aside from an obvious bad call on the "block' we would have beaten Houston with said dumpster fire team barring a missed FG.

 

No. Houston was 2019. Jacksonville was 2017. We'd have won if we had a QB who didn't suck.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Today

Always, with the emnity of the deepest hell

 

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Kingsbury at #4??? 

McDermott #18??

Both Super Bowl Coaches outside the top 10 and Zac Taylor #22??

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-head-coach-rankings-2022-bill-belichick-andy-reid-john-harbaugh

 

Why is it at all surprising that PFF tells us that any number of mediocre performers are "actually" better than the guys who are top performers?   It's their schtick: manipulating arcane -- and sometimes irrelevant -- statistics to "prove" that traditional methods of assessing players and coaches -- actual production/results -- don't tell the "true story".   PFF regularly claim that Crappy QB A is really almost as good as All Pro QB B because A plays on a lousy team with poor coaching while B plays on a well coached team with good talent.  That's why Kliff Kingsbury is rated #4 and Mike Tomlin is rated #13 in the magical and incredibly capricious statistical universe of PFF.   Why is Tomlin penalized for having Roethlisberger for most of his tenure in Pittsburgh but McCarthy isn't despite having Rodgers in GB and Dak in Dallas and accomplishing less? 

[LeGOATski]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Why is it at all surprising that PFF tells us that any number of mediocre performers are "actually" better than the guys who are top performers?   It's their schtick: manipulating arcane -- and sometimes irrelevant -- statistics to "prove" that traditional methods of assessing players and coaches -- actual production/results -- don't tell the "true story".   PFF regularly claim that Crappy QB A is really almost as good as All Pro QB B because A plays on a lousy team with poor coaching while B plays on a well coached team with good talent.  That's why Kliff Kingsbury is rated #4 and Mike Tomlin is rated #13 in the magical and incredibly capricious statistical universe of PFF.   Why is Tomlin penalized for having Roethlisberger for most of his tenure in Pittsburgh but McCarthy isn't despite having Rodgers in GB and Dak in Dallas and accomplishing less? 

Because McCarthy's agent pays PFF a higher subscription fee.

[4merper4mer]

5 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

He's a SB winning head coach and that matters so I would also put him in the top 10 and above McD for that reason alone.

 

Also when you consider what a circus the Dallas front office is with Jerry Jones at the helm it's still a big deal that he got the Cowboys back to the playoffs and won the division last year regardless of getting bounced in the first round.

 

 

Shirley

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Shirley they can’t be serious with a Mike McCarthy in the top 10.

 

[machine gun kelly]

This list is almost not even worth commenting.  Why Sean McVeigh who went to two SB’s os not in the top 10?  Tomlin has never had a less than 8 win season so never a losing season.  What a joke?  I don’t want to indict all of PFF, but this schmoa is smoking some wacky tobaccy.

[billsfan89]

Coaching goes far beyond simply calling plays and in game decisions. Yes that is one aspect of good coaching but the team building and organization building aspect is far more important and McD is one of the best organization builders out there.

[FLFan]

What a total nonsense article.  

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Yes.  They’re trying to control for talent by using Pythagorean wins.  While that metric is more predictive than W-L records, I don’t much care for its use here.  Too much else at play as others have mentioned.  I think PFF does a good job at some things, but this one is pretty poor. 

 

Agree totally with this. Especially given that they are also then using contract level as a proxy for "talent." They have had a go at creating a metric which is, at least, better than "we just came up with this list off the top of our heads" but when your metric spits out the list that this one did you should go "huh, that feels off, maybe this metric is flawed" rather than "where is the publish button?"

[Ethan in Cleveland]

22 hours ago, NewEra said:

So what did they think about McDs first season, when they had your boy Tyrod and Nate peterman leading the team to the playoffs while throwing to Kelvin Benjamin and Zay Jones.  The same season everyone proclaimed us to be tanking based on the talent level of the roster. Yet McD broke the playoff drought…..in his first season. I’m sure that carries zero weight….

To be fair McD's defense got destroyed against New Orleans giving up over 200 yards rushing that was a precursor to other flops by the defense. It was McD that chose to start Peterman on the road against the Chargers. It was McD that hired and fired his OC after one year. One might argue Bills made the playoffs despite McD's decisions. And lastly the tank job was McD's second season when they fielded a non-competitive team by Beane's own admission.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Ethan in Portland said:

To be fair McD's defense got destroyed against New Orleans giving up over 200 yards rushing that was a precursor to other flops by the defense. It was McD that chose to start Peterman on the road against the Chargers. It was McD that hired and fired his OC after one year. One might argue Bills made the playoffs despite McD's decisions. And lastly the tank job was McD's second season when they fielded a non-competitive team by Beane's own admission.

 

He also won in Atlanta against a team that had just been to a Superbowl, won in Kansas City the week after the LA debacle and got the team over the hump down the stretch. They made the playoffs because of McDermott in large part. That isn't to say he didn't make mistakes. On the OC... that was less McDermott's fault and more the hand he was dealt. Rico was at best his 4th (we know that Mike McCoy and Greg Olson both chose to go elsewhere and Brad Childress turned it down) and likely his 5th choice (Chudzinski was the other guy rumoured) for OC. People were not queuing around the block to hitch their wagon to a first time HC and Tyrod Taylor. 

[Milanos Milano]

If we had McVay or Shanahan as our coach, there is no doubt in my mind that we win a super bowl last year. 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

To be fair McD's defense got destroyed against New Orleans giving up over 200 yards rushing that was a precursor to other flops by the defense. It was McD that chose to start Peterman on the road against the Chargers. It was McD that hired and fired his OC after one year. One might argue Bills made the playoffs despite McD's decisions. And lastly the tank job was McD's second season when they fielded a non-competitive team by Beane's own admission.

 

There are a lot more decisions to go into each game plan than just spot picking decisions here and there.

 

He's currently a coach with a .605 winning percentage which is very good.

 

How many OC's were chomping at the bit to have Tyrod Taylor lead their offense?  Tyrod is a QB that hurts your career and not elevate it.

[BearNorth]

Of the current roster, 25 players were drafted by the Bills since McD was hired in 2017.  21 are regulars who play nearly every game unless injured.  Jim and Pat yesterday on Sirius-NFL were saying that a coach/front office is doing well if they have 15 of their draft choices still on the roster.

 

 

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

To be fair McD's defense got destroyed against New Orleans giving up over 200 yards rushing that was a precursor to other flops by the defense. It was McD that chose to start Peterman on the road against the Chargers. It was McD that hired and fired his OC after one year. One might argue Bills made the playoffs despite McD's decisions. And lastly the tank job was McD's second season when they fielded a non-competitive team by Beane's own admission.

You might argue that the Bills made the playoffs despite Mcdermotts decision. I wouldn’t.  
 

His 2nd year was the season where the all the dead money from the previous seasons departures crippled the cap hence the “tank season”.  Can’t suck blood from a stone.  Wood retired, incognitos went crazy.  Our OL went from good to terrible. Other than the OL, the weapons were the same.  The offense was inept.  The defense added star, trent, edmunds, Kevin Johnson, HPhillips and TJohnson.  But with the worst OL ever created, nothing else mattered.  We won 3 less games than McDs first year.
 

most people would think that a team starting the 2017 versions of tyrod, shady, Benjamin, Zay, dionte Thompson and Charles clay would be in the running for the #1 pick in the draft.  Mcdermott ended a 17 year playoff drought instead.  Despite starting peterman.  

[FilthyBeast]

49 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

If we had McVay or Shanahan as our coach, there is no doubt in my mind that we win a super bowl last year. 

 

It's certainly debatable since both have been to a SB with the former getting their twice and finally winning.

 

Shanahan specifically is intriguing considering the success he has had in SF without an elite QB, leaning more on defense even though he's an offensive minded coach.

 

This is why I keep telling people that if for some reason we did dump McDermott if he can't get to a SB or win it this year, we'd instantly be the premier destination with any big name coach begging us for the job because of one reason (JA17). Not like years past where we are happy to land any retread possible interested in being the HC for an irrelevant franchise.

[NewEra]

54 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

It's certainly debatable since both have been to a SB with the former getting their twice and finally winning.

 

Shanahan specifically is intriguing considering the success he has had in SF without an elite QB, leaning more on defense even though he's an offensive minded coach.

 

This is why I keep telling people that if for some reason we did dump McDermott if he can't get to a SB or win it this year, we'd instantly be the premier destination with any big name coach begging us for the job because of one reason (JA17). Not like years past where we are happy to land any retread possible interested in being the HC for an irrelevant franchise.

Which “big name coaches” are free agents?  The guys that just got fired.  McD would likely be the biggest name coach on the market.  
 

He shouldn’t be fired after this year unless it’s obvious that he’s a terrible coach, which is highly unlikely.  No super bowl appearances after the next 2 years and he might deservingly be a free agent looking for a new job.  

[Nextmanup]

McDermott at 18 so the piece is trash and a joke.

 

Had McDermott been top 3, would have been an excellent, fair piece.

 

LMAO

 

 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He shouldn’t be fired after this year unless it’s obvious that he’s a terrible coach, which is highly unlikely.  No super bowl appearances after the next 2 years and he might deservingly be a free agent looking for a new job.  

This is where I'm at right now. At that point you start to look at a stacked roster that can't even come close to winning a Super Bowl and ask yourself if he's the right coach.

[SoTier]

PFF likes to pretend that it's "objective"  but this list demonstrates that the group is hardly less biased than any group of knowledgeable NFL fans polled as to their choices as best coaches.   Ding, ding, PFF ... winning is important, winning playoff games is more important, and winning the Super Bowl is "priceless".  

 

Kliff Kingsbury has been HC of the Cards for 3 seasons in which his teams have gone 24-24-1 with 1 winning season, 1 playoff appearance, and 0 playoff wins.  His teams have demonstrated a tendency to start off hot and then tail off as the season progresses.   In 2019, the Cards started the season 3-3-1 and finished 2-7 (5-10-1).   In 2020, they started 5-2 and finished 3-6 (8-8).   In 2021, they started 7-0 and finished 4-6 (11-6).   They got soundly beaten 34-11 by the Rams in the WC round. 

 

How the hell can anyone claim that Kingsbury is currently the fourth best HC in the NFL behind three HCs destined for the HOF?   Good grief, Kingsbury isn't even as good as two HCs in his own division, Shanahan and McVay.  He's 3-3 versus the 49ers.   Shanahan has taken the 49ers to the NFC Championship twice and once to the Super Bowl in the 2 seasons that he's had Garropolo as his QB for most of the season.

 

Kingsbury is 1-6 against McVay's Rams, including the 2021  WC loss.   NFL HCs have significant influence over their team's roster, and it's disingenuous to penalize HCs who are good at talent evaluation and management because it's a key part of the job!  Both Kingsbury and McVay inherited losing squads.  Kingsbury got to hand pick his QB in Kyler Murray.  McVay inherited Jared Goff, and made the Super Bowl with him in his second season as HC.   McVay has been HC of Rams for 5 seasons in which his teams have gone 55-26 with 5 winning seasons, 4 double digit win seasons, 4 playoff appearances, 7 playoff wins in 10 games, 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 Super Bowl win.    McVay is collecting HOF credentials.  Kingsbury may be job hunting in 2023 if the Cardinals suffer another second half of the season swoon.

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, BearNorth said:

Of the current roster, 25 players were drafted by the Bills since McD was hired in 2017.  21 are regulars who play nearly every game unless injured.  Jim and Pat yesterday on Sirius-NFL were saying that a coach/front office is doing well if they have 15 of their draft choices still on the roster.

 

 

 

I listened to that episode as many and I love their analysis as they don’t seem to try and get hot takes.  They give lots of facts and analysis, and are consistent in that analysis from team to team.  They also do t have a problem going against hot take wisdom meaning they rated this years Lions O Line relatively high at least too 10 with additions.

 

They ranked us as split 3rd and 4th respectively flipping New Orleans for us for those two spots.  On RB’s we rated a 15 out of 20.  That’s fair and probably not too 10, but not in the bottom half of the league either.

 

McD is a heck of a coach and one can nit pick anyone if they want.  Looking at the coaches performance in its totality has been the best since Marv.  Before that you have to go back to Knox, and before that would be Saban.  You can throw Wade in there for his defense as it was crushing.  We didn’t have much of an offense, but the best defense in the late 90’s even better than Dungy’s defense.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

McDermott at 18 so the piece is trash and a joke.

 

Had McDermott been top 3, would have been an excellent, fair piece.

 

LMAO

 

 

About where would you rank him?

[Doc]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

You might argue that the Bills made the playoffs despite Mcdermotts decision. I wouldn’t.  
 

His 2nd year was the season where the all the dead money from the previous seasons departures crippled the cap hence the “tank season”.  Can’t suck blood from a stone.  Wood retired, incognitos went crazy.  Our OL went from good to terrible. Other than the OL, the weapons were the same.  The offense was inept.  The defense added star, trent, edmunds, Kevin Johnson, HPhillips and TJohnson.  But with the worst OL ever created, nothing else mattered.  We won 3 less games than McDs first year.
 

most people would think that a team starting the 2017 versions of tyrod, shady, Benjamin, Zay, dionte Thompson and Charles clay would be in the running for the #1 pick in the draft.  Mcdermott ended a 17 year playoff drought instead.  Despite starting peterman.  

 

And more importantly, having a raw rookie thrust into the starting role early.

 

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

PFF likes to pretend that it's "objective"...

 

It was an opinion piece, plain and simple.  And you know what opinions are like...

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And more importantly, having a raw rookie thrust into the starting role early.

 

 

It was an opinion piece, plain and simple.  And you know what opinions are like...

And having that rookie get smashed and miss a few games