Is Joe Brady on the staff in case Ken Dorsey flubs it?

[todd]

It is called mentoring and succession planning. Every good organization does it. The organizations that don’t do it are usually headed by transient staffs and fear for their own livelihood, let alone planning for future coaches in the organization. Succession planning and mentoring are the sign of a successful and stable organization.

[YoloinOhio]

Not sure if this article has been linked, but here is Joe Brady’s 1st interview since being hired 

 

An opportunity too good to pass up': Why Joe Brady couldn't say no to working with QB Josh Allen and the Bills

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/an-opportunity-too-good-to-pass-up-why-joe-brady-couldnt-say-no-to-working/article_3fbfcf20-e416-11ec-a97c-8ff5250afd04.html

Edited June 5, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[The Dean]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

If any of those sous chefs hadn’t already been head chefs themselves, I’d agree that they’re just sous chefs. Shouldn’t be a problem when things are going well, but I can see the potential for too many voices and some conflict if the offense struggles. 

 

This is what weak/unconfident leaders think. I one had a guy tell me the reason he wouldn't hire me is because I would be a threat to his leadership.  In his case, he was probably right. It's common I find among very young people  put in a leadership position, and sometimes by older leaders not up with the current techniques/knowledge/etc.

 

An established confident would do well to get the absolute best, most experienced, colleagues possible. Assuming they can work well together, have similar philosophies, etc.

 

I think the saying is "Too many chefs spoil the broth". Taken literally this might be true. If several chefs are all getting involved cooking one pot of broth, it could suffer. Fortunately that has zero relevance to this situation, IMO.

 

42 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

McD is doing what good leaders do.  He’s providing the best talent around his coordinators.  McD would never allow a breach of chain of command.  Coaching decisions are with the blessing of the Pegulas and Beane, but make no mistake these are HC decisions.  Do you think he didn’t cover this stuff in the interview process.  As a leader the last 10 years you prepare for everything and keep an eye on day to day in the beginning to make sure things flow well.

 

Brady knows his role, and Dorsey knows he can rely on his staff to assist with generating ideas, but decisions will be made by Dorsey unless McD jumps in the game and wants to insert a specific tactic.

 

This is a great thing as McD keeps fortifying his coaching staff with experienced coaches.

 

Exactly. Mentor/grow the younger staff members, but grab all you can for yourself from proven experience.

 

5 minutes ago, todd said:

It is called mentoring and succession planning. Every good organization does it. The organizations that don’t do it are usually headed by transient staffs and fear for their own livelihood, let alone planning for future coaches in the organization. Succession planning and mentoring are the sign of a successful and stable organization.

 

Exactly.

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I think the Hiring of Brady is just another instance of their organizational structure of finding or replacing individuals  with young bright minds. They seem to have a good knack from scouting personal to assistant GM of surrounding themselves with the best.

 

You can never have too many good coaches. 
 

 

Not only that,  Brady who will be either waiting in the wings for his next shot. ( Right  now it probably looks pretty good on your resume to be working with Josh) or be next in line as the O Coordinator if Dorsey was to get offered a head coaching job.  It also keeps some continuity with the playbook just like we have now.

I think right now if a job opens up in the Bills that the position would attract a lot of interest. 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

19 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah it wasn't a great plan, point is there always seems to be teams willing to give someone a chance because they were in sneezing range of someone who's had success.

 

 

Yeah, Dorsey's fate is not in Josh's hands....more like Daboll's.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

https://sportsnaut.com/new-york-giants-negotiating-with-ken-dorsey-oc/

 

It's no surprise that they tried to get him to go to Jersey.  And I'm sure he listened.  It doesn't mean he was seriously considering it considering it would mean a) still being in Daboll's shadow and b) having to tie his future to Daniel Jones.

 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

When Daboll is exposed as a product of the otherworldly Josh Allen, the Bills “HC pipeline” will be capped for all the rest

 

If Dorsey does a good job with the offense, he'll get HC'ing offers.  Just because others have failed, it doesn't mean the pipeline will be capped.

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, syhuang said:

 

Please don't get me wrong and it's not that I don't believe you since there were rumors about Dorsey might go with Daboll. However, I don't recall any creditable source or rumor about Dorsey "close to" sign with NYG. Can you please share the link to it?

I can’t remember the name but there was one reporter from NY who was on the Giants beat that said Dorsey was going to be the OC.  His name escapes me but I can look it up.  

[wppete]

 I think if anything Chad Hall would be the next man up and for sure he is a upcoming star OC. But it think Dorsey is going to do a great Job. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's no surprise that they tried to get him to go to Jersey.  And I'm sure he listened.  It doesn't mean he was seriously considering it considering it would mean a) still being in Daboll's shadow and b) having to tie his future to Daniel Jones.

 

 

If Dorsey does a good job with the offense, he'll get HC'ing offers.  Just because others have failed, it doesn't mean the pipeline will be capped.

 

A job Dorsey will be offered will be with another Daniel Jones.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

Is Joe Brady on the staff in case Ken Dorsey flubs it?

 

 

 

No.

[Thurman#1]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Yeah, Dorsey's fate is not in Josh's hands....more like Daboll's.

 

 

Nah. What happens to Daboll from the instant he left Buffalo is irrelevant to what happens to Dorsey. 

 

Every tree produces hits and misses. That's simply how it works.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nah. What happens to Daboll from the instant he left Buffalo is irrelevant to what happens to Dorsey. 

 

Every tree produces hits and misses. That's simply how it works.

 
sure

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

A job Dorsey will be offered will be with another Daniel Jones.

 

Possibly.  But still be offered.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Motor26 said:

Not really. Dorsey will call the plays. 

I’m not worried about Dorsey in the least and who calls the plays isn’t my concern. Nor am I saying play calling will be a power struggle at all. Besides, this is Josh’s offense more than anyone else’s. I’m talking about all the voices in the room during the week. There are three former (demoted) OCs serving a new OC in this league. I think some egos have the potential to be hit. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

This is what weak/unconfident leaders think. I one had a guy tell me the reason he wouldn't hire me is because I would be a threat to his leadership.  In his case, he was probably right. It's common I find among very young people  put in a leadership position, and sometimes by older leaders not up with the current techniques/knowledge/etc.

 

An established confident would do well to get the absolute best, most experienced, colleagues possible. Assuming they can work well together, have similar philosophies, etc.

 

I think the saying is "Too many chefs spoil the broth". Taken literally this might be true. If several chefs are all getting involved cooking one pot of broth, it could suffer. Fortunately that has zero relevance to this situation, IMO.

 

 

Exactly. Mentor/grow the younger staff members, but grab all you can for yourself from proven experience.

 

 

Exactly.

I agree entirely with everything you say here and that’s been my experience as well thru the years. I want people to aspire to a higher position as it brings out the best in people. 
 

Relevant or not, the potential for conflict is there. I don’t predict conflict will occur nor do I think any of these once OC coaches are that fragile. And like Ive said, this is Josh’s offense more than it’s anyone else’s, including Dorsey. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

I agree entirely with everything you say here and that’s been my experience as well thru the years. I want people to aspire to a higher position as it brings out the best in people. 
 

Relevant or not, the potential for conflict is there. I don’t predict conflict will occur nor do I think any of these once OC coaches are that fragile. And like Ive said, this is Josh’s offense more than it’s anyone else’s, including Dorsey. 

 

Very qualified people will line up to take positions with the Bills, because Josh and the surrounding talent offers them the best path to climb up the ladder and get higher level jobs in the near future. 

 

“Too much” coaching talent does not concern me. I find it encouraging because the people at the top are qualified to manage the situation. 

 

 

.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Augie

[Max Fischer]

No

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

4 former OCs on staff?  This confuses me.  I thought McDermott only cared about the defense.

You’re right, I read it right here on TSW…, 

 

😁👍

[RocCityRoller]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

Too many chefs from the looks of it on the surface. 

 

This is my actual concern for a 1st year OC.

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Very qualified people will line up to take positions with the Bills, because Josh and the surrounding talent offers them the best path to climb up the ladder and get higher level jobs in the near future. 

 

“Too much” coaching talent does not concern me. I find it encouraging because the people at the top are qualified to manage the situation.

 

I remember when we couldn't get good coaches to come to Buffalo. Now we have an embarrassment of riches!

[Doc]

There will be one cook unless/until he ruins the meal. 

[Putin]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

No.

I agree with almost everything  !!! 

[billybrew1]

8 hours ago, Utah John said:

Ken Dorsey looks like a bright young guy who has never had the responsibility to call plays during a game.  He got the OC job at least in part because Josh Allen made it clear that's who he wanted, but that doesn't mean Dorsey really knows what he's doing.  We all saw Daboll confusing defenses with his schemes, route trees, and play calls, but DCs in the AFC will have spent hours this year figuring out how to stop Daboll's schemes.  Dorsey will need to come up with brand new twists for the Bills offense to return to its powerful state of late last year.

 

Joe Brady is a former OC at Carolina and was on a fast-track career progression until Carolina crashed and burned last year, with Brady taking the fall for not working miracles with Darnold at QB and no CMC at RB.  Brady is saying all the right things about working for Dorsey, but Brady's resume is actually much better than Dorsey's, except for the Allen relationship.

 

The Bills' early schedule this year is pretty rough.  I'm hoping as we all are that they crush that early schedule, cruise on through the rest of the year, get the top seed, etc.  But they still have to play the games.  Just wondering if anyone else has noticed that McDermott has a Dorsey replacement right there on staff, ready to go, if the Bills offense struggles through September and into October.

No. Aaron Kromer is on the staff in case KD messes up.

[billybrew1]

Kromer, a way more qualified OC than Joe Brady…. Though I think KD understands how to call plays and why certain plays are called, etc. He knows how to set up plays, the whole schmear. I just don’t think McD is so stupid he’d put a coach in there that doesn’t understand play calling. (Even though no one can explain 13 sec. without making the Bills look stupid.)
I think he does fine. 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Everyone is forgetting Mike Shula....

OC of the year with Cam Newton

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

You’re right, I read it right here on TSW…, 

 

😁👍

 

You need more people on your ignore list.

[CEN-CAL17]

Better question is… why is our secondary coach the passing game coordinator???!!!

 

 

[BigAl2526]

10 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Better question is… why is our secondary coach the passing game coordinator???!!!

 

 

 

Good question.  Is it possible the passing game coordinator refers to a role in planning defensive strategy?  A defensive passing game coordinator/specialist?  After all, under Daboll, Dorsey served as passing game coordinator for the offense.  That doesn't seem like something he's want to give up as offensive coordinator.  It seems a natural fit for his knowledge and experience.

[Richard Noggin]

[The thread name] is not a smart question. 

[Turk71]

10 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Everyone is forgetting Mike Shula....

His cousin Dave Shula (not his older brother Dave) was a fellow ski bum housemate of mine in Park City in '86 '87. Skied a ton and went on some Grateful Dead road trips together. Smart, funny, all around good dude. He's a year older than Mike. 

[Matt_In_NH]

I think Joe Brady is the QB coach, simple as that.  Was Dorsey the Daboll replacement all along?  Let's list the examples of coaches getting fired mid season under McDermott. They are below.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

I think Joe Brady is the QB coach, simple as that.  Was Dorsey the Daboll replacement all along?  Let's list the examples of coaches getting fired mid season under McDermott. They are below.

 

"All along" - no. but I think it has been clear since the end of the 2020 season that he was their preferred successor if Daboll landed a HC gig. I think that has kind of led some fans to the assumption that the same will occur with Brady. The reality is I think that Brady will get looks for OC next year elsewhere in the league. He was very bad at it in Carolina, but he has the profile, he has the LSU success and he will be basking in the glow of another Josh Allen season. Inevitable that teams try and hire him as OC. So for him to succeed Dorsey you would have to believe Dorsey is going to get Head Coaching looks after one season as a play caller. Certainly possible, but a longshot IMO. 

[Ya Digg?]

Holy crap you are already on the “Dorsey will screw it up” narrative? You’re gonna be a fun one on here when the Bills lose a game 🤦‍♂️

[Matt_In_NH]

42 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

"All along" - no. but I think it has been clear since the end of the 2020 season that he was their preferred successor if Daboll landed a HC gig. I think that has kind of led some fans to the assumption that the same will occur with Brady. The reality is I think that Brady will get looks for OC next year elsewhere in the league. He was very bad at it in Carolina, but he has the profile, he has the LSU success and he will be basking in the glow of another Josh Allen season. Inevitable that teams try and hire him as OC. So for him to succeed Dorsey you would have to believe Dorsey is going to get Head Coaching looks after one season as a play caller. Certainly possible, but a longshot IMO. 

 

I don't disagree with anything you said here.  My point is Brady was not brought in with the thought/purpose of taking over for Dorsey after week 4 if they start slow, he is the QB coach and like the Bills handle any position, they like to bring in talent.  If they start slow under Dorsey they will work as a team and solve it.   And if for some reason they really moved on mid season, that would be an indictment on the McDermott and Beane more so than Dorsey IMO.  The Bills with Allen will probably have somewhat of a revolving door at OC.  Daboll was here four years but after one outstanding season by Allen and the offense he was getting coaching interviews.   I could see Dorsey being on interviews next offseason.

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

 

I don't disagree with anything you said here.  My point is Brady was not brought in with the thought/purpose of taking over for Dorsey after week 4 if they start slow, he is the QB coach and like the Bills handle any position, they like to bring in talent.  If they start slow under Dorsey they will work as a team and solve it.   And if for some reason they really moved on mid season, that would be an indictment on the McDermott and Beane more so than Dorsey IMO.  The Bills with Allen will probably have somewhat of a revolving door at OC.  Daboll was here four years but after one outstanding season by Allen and the offense he was getting coaching interviews.   I could see Dorsey being on interviews next offseason.

 

I definitely agree that there is almost no chance Dorsey is fired mid-season. It would have to be more than a few offensive struggles, more like would need a total relationship breakdown and I don't see that.

 

On the revolving door at OC thing.... I think what usually happens is the guy who OCs the Quarterback when he first breaks through gets (right or wrongly) a lot of credit for that and for the involvement in the development phase. After that it can actually be detrimental to an offensive coordinator to be tied to a known quantity elite QB, because people say "ah yea, but anyone could coach them." Which is true of course but there will still be a mix of good coaches and bad coaches attached to elite QBs. If you look at Brady - only 1 guy has ever been hired as an NFL Head Coach from coaching him - Josh McDaniels. Okay two others got college opportunities, but just McDaniels got an NFL HC job directly from being Brady's OC. The only guy who got a HC job directly from being Peyton Manning's OC was Mike McCoy in Denver (although it played into Adam Gase getting one later, but he got credit then for having also got production out of Jay Cutler and supposedly having "proven" it wasn't all Peyton). The only Saints OC who got a HC job in the Brees era was Marrone who had to go the college route first (though that is arguably different because Sean Payton always called the plays). Only two of Aaron Rodgers' OCs got NFL Head Coaching jobs - Philbin and now Hackett and they were 12 years apart. Only Whisenhunt managed to parlay working with Big Ben into a Head Coaching job, and none of Russell Wilson's OCs in Seattle did. None of which is to say Dorsey won't get a shot. He has a profile as a very successful college QB and a journeyman NFL QB and has been around two successful programs in the Bills and the Panthers before that so he might, and possibly as early as next January, but for it to become a revolving door of OCs who get HC jobs would very much be to buck the trend. 

 

 

[Greg S]

I think Dorsey will be just fine. He has been the QB coach and worked with Daboll and Allen these past few years. While Dorsey may tweak some things I expect they will keep mostly the same offense and same terminology. Why fix it if it isn't broke.

[ddaryl]

Was Ken Dorsey on the staff in case DaBoll screwed up?

 

[Tanoros]

20 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Dorsey isn’t getting fired a month into the season. 
 

Brady is likely the OC in waiting for when Dorsey is hired to be a HC. 

Dorsey would have to do some Urban Meyer type s**t to get fired that quick. If the offense struggles, he has to be given time. If the Bills management is going to have that short of a leash, you don’t make that hire in the first place. 

[The Jokeman]

19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

We have three former OCs on the staff - Brady, Boras and Kromer.

Actually four if want to count Mike Shula who is our Senior offensive assistant.

[BigPappy]

18 hours ago, K-9 said:

If any of those sous chefs hadn’t already been head chefs themselves, I’d agree that they’re just sous chefs. Shouldn’t be a problem when things are going well, but I can see the potential for too many voices and some conflict if the offense struggles. 

You make a valid point, but it could go the other way just as easily if the offense struggles. It will all depend on how good Ken Dorsey is at managing the staff and how good he is at hearing other ideas and points of view. Based on what I do know of Ken Dorsey (admittingly not a ton), he's not an "ego" kind of guy, which tells me that he doesn't seem the type to not hear ideas from his staff and collaborate with those around him to make the offense be the best it can be. 

[Matt_In_NH]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I definitely agree that there is almost no chance Dorsey is fired mid-season. It would have to be more than a few offensive struggles, more like would need a total relationship breakdown and I don't see that.

 

On the revolving door at OC thing.... I think what usually happens is the guy who OCs the Quarterback when he first breaks through gets (right or wrongly) a lot of credit for that and for the involvement in the development phase. After that it can actually be detrimental to an offensive coordinator to be tied to a known quantity elite QB, because people say "ah yea, but anyone could coach them." Which is true of course but there will still be a mix of good coaches and bad coaches attached to elite QBs. If you look at Brady - only 1 guy has ever been hired as an NFL Head Coach from coaching him - Josh McDaniels. Okay two others got college opportunities, but just McDaniels got an NFL HC job directly from being Brady's OC. The only guy who got a HC job directly from being Peyton Manning's OC was Mike McCoy in Denver (although it played into Adam Gase getting one later, but he got credit then for having also got production out of Jay Cutler and supposedly having "proven" it wasn't all Peyton). The only Saints OC who got a HC job in the Brees era was Marrone who had to go the college route first (though that is arguably different because Sean Payton always called the plays). Only two of Aaron Rodgers' OCs got NFL Head Coaching jobs - Philbin and now Hackett and they were 12 years apart. Only Whisenhunt managed to parlay working with Big Ben into a Head Coaching job, and none of Russell Wilson's OCs in Seattle did. None of which is to say Dorsey won't get a shot. He has a profile as a very successful college QB and a journeyman NFL QB and has been around two successful programs in the Bills and the Panthers before that so he might, and possibly as early as next January, but for it to become a revolving door of OCs who get HC jobs would very much be to buck the trend. 

 

 

Good info, I guess that makes it seem more likely we can have(keep) stability on the staff.