Jim Kelly on the all time passing list

[Marlton Bills]

Jim Kelly currently sits at number 29 on the all time passing list. Had Fitzy played this year (or even most of last year) he likely would have passed him. Dalton is right behind him as well.  When I look at the list of top passers I marvel at Jim because he did it in 11 years. Has he played in 1983, 1984 and 1985, I always assume about another 10,000 yards. Do you all think that would be a reasonable amount of yards to add?  It would put him in the top 20. 

[LeGOATski]

Sure!

[Neo]

Add another 10,000 had he not played a decade with two touchdown leads and Thurman Thomas.   Kelly was a quarterback.   Marino was a passer.

[dollars 2 donuts]

50 minutes ago, Marlton Bills said:

Jim Kelly currently sits at number 29 on the all time passing list. Had Fitzy played this year (or even most of last year) he likely would have passed him. Dalton is right behind him as well.  When I look at the list of top passers I marvel at Jim because he did it in 11 years. Has he played in 1983, 1984 and 1985, I always assume about another 10,000 yards. Do you all think that would be a reasonable amount of yards to add?  It would put him in the top 20. 

 

i like sliding in his 11,000+ yards from the useless just to have a total profession yards cume that is slightly higher.

[Kirby Jackson]

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

[Marlton Bills]

23 minutes ago, Neo said:

Add another 10,000 had he not played a decade with two touchdown leads and Thurman Thomas.   Kelly was a quarterback.   Marino was a passer.

Interesting…I also think the length of qb careers has gotten ridiculously long because you can’t touch them. Guys like Kelly got the ***** kicked out of them and I think it would be impossible for them to pay 15-20 years.  Do you agree with Kirby’s hot take?

[Neo]

5 minutes ago, Marlton Bills said:

Interesting…I also think the length of qb careers has gotten ridiculously long because you can’t touch them. Guys like Kelly got the ***** kicked out of them and I think it would be impossible for them to pay 15-20 years.  Do you agree with Kirby’s hot take?

I agree with Kirby, but I’d drop Marino from his list.   Marino is not Brady, Montana, Payton, Elway …

[eball]

37 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

I think it’s splitting hairs to a degree.  I do believe having Thurman for most of his career was a limiting factor on Kelly’s stats.  He was an elite thrower of the football and there was no QB tougher.  Great leader as well (at least on the field).

 

[Artful Dodger]

48 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

 

This may be a bit unfair.  As we saw last year in several games, Buffalo weather is not kind to quarterbacks.  If he played in San Diego or Miami, he would have had a lot more passing yards.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I think it’s splitting hairs to a degree.  I do believe having Thurman for most of his career was a limiting factor on Kelly’s stats.  He was an elite thrower of the football and there was no QB tougher.  Great leader as well (at least on the field).

 

The flip side is that those elite weapons elevated him some. They did a ton after the catch. He was great and belongs in the HOF. If you include the guys not yet in though, I’m not sure if he is top 25 all-time. 

[Greg S]

Expect many of the greats to continue to drop in the standings (stats wise) now that we have a 17 game season which eventually will turn into an 18 game season. Assuming he stays healthy Allen will have every single Bills passing record and it won't be close. It will knock Kelly from #1 to #2 as the greatest Bills QB with Kemp and Ferguson dropping to #3 and #4 respectively on the Bills QB list.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

This may be a bit unfair.  As we saw last year in several games, Buffalo weather is not kind to quarterbacks.  If he played in San Diego or Miami, he would have had a lot more passing yards.

I’m not so much worried about the passing yards (although that’s a fair point). At the same time, a lot of the yards that he got were after the catch. Andre Reed is one of the best after the catch that I’ve ever seen. He wouldn’t have had that in SD or Miami. 
 

I’m not trashing him in any sense. I just think that we look at him, and history looks at him, as a more dominant player than he was. He was excellent. He belongs in the HOF. Kelly just isn’t in that special room in the HOF. FWIW, I think Allen has a chance to be in that room.

[DCofNC]

58 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

Yep, I agree completely.  In todays world, I’d have him right there with a Matt Stafford, really good, but not in the conversation for “best”.

[uticaclub]

Look where he was when we retired, not now. When he played you could still kill QBs and take the heads of WRs. Different era

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Look where he was when we retired, not now. When he played you could still kill QBs and take the heads of WRs. Different era

 

This.  Had Kelly been protected like QBs have since the early 2000s, he'd have played another 6-7 years.  And with the more wide open offenses, he would have racked up the stats.

[Greg S]

14 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Look where he was when we retired, not now. When he played you could still kill QBs and take the heads of WRs. Different era

 

Good point. Back then defenses could play defense. Now we get the ref saying "15 yards for unnecessary giving him a mean look and making him cry call." I get player safety and trying to limit injuries but some of these "roughing" calls are BS.

[Albany,n.y.]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

This.  Had Kelly been protected like QBs have since the early 2000s, he'd have played another 6-7 years.  And with the more wide open offenses, he would have racked up the stats.

Kelly was 37 when he retired.  No way he'd be playing at 43 or 44.  

[DCofNC]

49 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Look where he was when we retired, not now. When he played you could still kill QBs and take the heads of WRs. Different era

This is ALWAYS a point to consider when talking stats.  The eras were so different.  It would have been fun to see Kelly in place of Warner with the Rams.   I feel like that would have been something special, it was a similar offense to the K-Gun, but in an era where passing started to take off.   The Rams even had a similar team make up in that time Bruce, Holt, Faulk would be the modern equivalent of Reed, Lofton, Thurman.  
 

In todays world, he would be putting up 4500+ yards a year without getting beat up, it would be different for sure.  I take nothing away from Kelly, but I still feel he was always in the “really good” category, not the “elite” group.  That said, I put most guys in that group.  To me, Brady has now officially created his own category, hate him, but nobody has done what he has done, period, end of discussion.  Then you have the All-Time Greats, the Montana, Marino, etc.  Then there are the HoF guys that we superb, that’s where I find Kelly, Aikmen, etc.   In context, I also see Rodgers in that group because of his proficiency of choking in the Playoffs.  Right now, there’s 3, maybe 4 guys in the league that even show me potential to be considered the elite, Maholmes, Allen, Burrow and Herbert, they all have to show sustained success to get anywhere near the real elite level.  Maholmes’ start of his career is insane, hate all you want, but what he has done in such a short time is incredible.  Allen looks to be catching up, but wins ultimately make a difference.  Burrow is one hell of a QB without all the athletic traits you would love and has also started out really hot.  Herbert , athletic freak, looks the part and has to make the team better, stats are eye popping.

[Greg S]

7 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

This is ALWAYS a point to consider when talking stats.  The eras were so different.  It would have been fun to see Kelly in place of Warner with the Rams.   I feel like that would have been something special, it was a similar offense to the K-Gun, but in an era where passing started to take off.   The Rams even had a similar team make up in that time Bruce, Holt, Faulk would be the modern equivalent of Reed, Lofton, Thurman.  
 

In todays world, he would be putting up 4500+ yards a year without getting beat up, it would be different for sure.  I take nothing away from Kelly, but I still feel he was always in the “really good” category, not the “elite” group.  That said, I put most guys in that group.  To me, Brady has now officially created his own category, hate him, but nobody has done what he has done, period, end of discussion.  Then you have the All-Time Greats, the Montana, Marino, etc.  Then there are the HoF guys that we superb, that’s where I find Kelly, Aikmen, etc.   In context, I also see Rodgers in that group because of his proficiency of choking in the Playoffs.  Right now, there’s 3, maybe 4 guys in the league that even show me potential to be considered the elite, Maholmes, Allen, Burrow and Herbert, they all have to show sustained success to get anywhere near the real elite level.  Maholmes’ start of his career is insane, hate all you want, but what he has done in such a short time is incredible.  Allen looks to be catching up, but wins ultimately make a difference.  Burrow is one hell of a QB without all the athletic traits you would love and has also started out really hot.  Herbert , athletic freak, looks the part and has to make the team better, stats are eye popping.

 

As far as QB's go its going to be really fun watching the AFC this year. Aside from Bills games I am looking forward to watching the AFCW this year. Mahomes, Herbert, Wilson, and Carr. Those divisional games are going to be exciting.

[Matt_In_NH]

He had a short NFL career due to the USFL start and probably a little too much partying/not enough attention to nutrition.  Comparing stats from a  a guy today like Fitz to guys from a previous era should not be done straight up.  Guys from the 70s and 80s would be terrible if they had the stats today they did then.  It has been 39 years since Kelly was drafted.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

I would take Allen over Kelly in his prime

[Awwufelloff]

Allens career will blow past Kellys in every category. 

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

Add another 10,000 had he not played a decade with two touchdown leads and Thurman Thomas.   Kelly was a quarterback.   Marino was a passer.

 

Marino was leaps and bounds better than Kelly as a passer and a QB.

[eball]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The flip side is that those elite weapons elevated him some. They did a ton after the catch. He was great and belongs in the HOF. If you include the guys not yet in though, I’m not sure if he is top 25 all-time. 

 

Yeah, I'm not as concerned with all-time rankings...stats can be helped/hurt by so many factors over a career.  We agree he is a totally legit HOFer.

 

[mushypeaches]

I love Jim Kelly as much as the next guy, but he was not a great passer.  He did happen to have command of an innovative offense, and was often a better passer than the guys on the opposite sideline.

 

But re-watching old games, his mechanics and decision-making were frequently awful, and as he lost mobility and arm strength during the second half of his career, it was clear that we were often winning games in spite of Jim Kelly, and not because of anything he was doing as a QB.

 

Yes, many will argue correctly that it was a different era, blah blah blah.  But Jim Kelly would struggle to be a competent starting QB in today's NFL.  The guys are that much more talented, accurate, etc.  I will always give Jim Kelly high marks for his leadership and toughness, but it's night and day vs what Josh Allen brings in today's NFL

 

[gonzo1105]

Back in that era it probably would have been more like 9,000 yards than 11,000 teams still ran the ball quite a bit.

I also tend to agree that Kelly is severely overrated by Bills fans. Good QB on a great team.

[RiotAct]

you figure 48 regular season games x 200 yards per game is 9600.  So I think 10,000 is a somewhat reasonable estimate.  Although, that’s not accounting for time missed due to injury

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Marino was leaps and bounds better than Kelly as a passer and a QB.

… in the regular season.

[Greg S]

41 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Back in that era it probably would have been more like 9,000 yards than 11,000 teams still ran the ball quite a bit.

I also tend to agree that Kelly is severely overrated by Bills fans. Good QB on a great team.

 

Coming off back to back 2-14 seasons Kelly was viewed as a savior for the franchise during those horrible times. Just look at the reaction of the fans during Kelly's first game.

 

 

 

 

[Robert Paulson]

9 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Coming off back to back 2-14 seasons Kelly was viewed as a savior for the franchise during those horrible times. Just look at the reaction of the fans during Kelly's first game.

 

i am amazed by the crappy resolution

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Robert Paulson
p.s. love the uni numbers with no borders-very clean

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

Expect many of the greats to continue to drop in the standings (stats wise) now that we have a 17 game season which eventually will turn into an 18 game season. Assuming he stays healthy Allen will have every single Bills passing record and it won't be close. It will knock Kelly from #1 to #2 as the greatest Bills QB with Kemp and Ferguson dropping to #3 and #4 respectively on the Bills QB list.

    All JA needs is one Lombardi and he’s the number one for this franchise.

    I would go so far as to say if we won it all this year and Allen retired he’d still be # 1

 

[Greg S]

Just now, Buffalo Boy said:

    All JA needs is one Lombardi and he’s the number one for this franchise.

    I would go so far as to say if we won it all this year and Allen retired he’d still be # 1

 

 

If they manage to win the Super Bowl this entire Bills team will be considered legends in WNY not just Allen. If they win I am driving up from NJ just to be at the celebration/parade. It will be epic. I think every Bills fan all around the world will make every effort to be at that.

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

This is only a hot take on TBD. It is reality in the rest of the world.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

Marino was leaps and bounds better than Kelly as a passer and a QB.

 

Just passer.

[SoMAn]

4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take: Kelly was a very good QB, not an elite QB. He belongs in the HOF because of his winning. He is in the Fouts/Moon/Aikman/Griese/Warner tier of HOF QBs not the Brady/Montana/Peyton/Elway/Marino tier.

 

 

I tend to agree with the assessment, though I’m not as quick to put Marino in thr upper tier category. He was boy wonder coming out of the gates when Kelly was still in the USFL. He had inflated numbers in a pass-happy offense and was the media darling breaking records. But, he only made it to a single Super Bowl early on, then was consistently beaten by Kelly, who played in a balanced offense with 1000 yd runners (unlike Marino). Marino gained an early reputation as one of the best. 

Kelly called his own plays and was far more successful in big games. Kelly was also a better ‘team player’. I can’t rate Marino higher just because he had a super fast release, great accuracy, and threw the ball enough to rack up big passing numbers. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

2 hours ago, Awwufelloff said:

Allens career will blow past Kellys in every category. 

As it should. Different eras, although I believe Allen would make his mark regardless of era, that’s how much of a unicorn he is, imho. That said, Kelly nationally is under-appreciated compared with his peers, solely bc of the SB losses. Kelly’s 10 years were nothing short of special, and as a new fan outside of Buffalo during his era, he’s directly still responsible for turning me into a Bills lifer—I highly doubt I’m the only one. 

[msw2112]

34 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Coming off back to back 2-14 seasons Kelly was viewed as a savior for the franchise during those horrible times. Just look at the reaction of the fans during Kelly's first game.

I was at that game.  Went with friends.  Went to the bathroom before kickoff and said I would meet them at the seats.  Turns out, they had all of the ticket stubs and they were not seats that we usually sat in.  I had absolutely no idea where they were sitting, so I ended up watching the game standing up in various spots around the stadium and met them in the parking lot after the game.  I can't honestly even attribute it to overserving myself at the tailgate (although I can for various other mishaps at Bills games over the years), it was just a stupid mistake.  It was pretty amazing what Kelly was able to do that day with very little practice time and very little knowledge of the playbook.  It was apparent he was going to be a great one.

 

I agree with many of the comments above that Kelly is HOF-worthy, but not necessary one of the all-time elites.  I realize it is all semantics, but Kelly was a much better FOOTBALL PLAYER than Dan Marino, but Marino may have been a better QUARTERBACK.  It was said above that Marino was a better PASSER, but Kelly a better QUARTERBACK.  It all depends on the words you want to use, but there were definitely things that Marino did better than Kelly in the passing game, but Kelly was the better leader and had much better results.  Some of that may be attributable to the teams around each guy and some of it is related to the "it" factor/intangibles that Kelly had - leadership, toughness, high football IQ.  Perhaps this era's Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert will be the new version of the Kelly, Marino, Elway era.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by msw2112

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

Add another 10,000 had he not played a decade with two touchdown leads and Thurman Thomas.   Kelly was a quarterback.   Marino was a passer.

 

Not sure what that means exactly, but it sounds clever.  Marino was the more highly ranked of the 2 by anyone who is not a Bills fan.

 

4 hours ago, Neo said:

I agree with Kirby, but I’d drop Marino from his list.   Marino is not Brady, Montana, Payton, Elway …

No, he's a lot better in some aspects.

He's the best pure passer I've ever seen and no one has ever replicated his ridiculously fast release.

 

 

[Rico]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Not sure what that means exactly, but it sounds clever.  Marino was the more highly ranked of the 2 by anyone who is not a Bills fan.

 

No, he's a lot better in some aspects.

He's the best pure passer I've ever seen and no one has ever replicated his ridiculously fast release.

 

 

Anti-clutch in the playoffs, he folded like a cheap suit.

[LeviF]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

I agree with Kirby, but I’d drop Marino from his list.   Marino is not Brady, Montana, Payton, Elway …

 

Marino might be the best passer to ever play the game. At this point it's between him and Rodgers. Josh Allen could blow them both away at his current trajectory.