The TE market is absolutely bonkers

[freddyjj]

43 minutes ago, Georgie said:

Howard signed for only one year,right?

Yes. Prove it deal for both parties

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Process said:

It's been trending this way for a couple years now.

 

This guy has 148 catches in 5 years

 

Knox will get $15M per. Should the bills be the one to pay it?

 

 

 

The thing with Njoku is if you can get past the injuries the talent is off the charts. I think he is a bit of a special case. The only tight end I have ever graded higher coming out is Kyle Pitts. It looks on the face of it an overpay but let's wait and see the structure of the deal first. 

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

was waiting for a thread on this today…completely agree this is silly and it means Knox will command big money. I just don’t get it-didn’t Cleveland bring in the now departed Hooper because they were sick of waiting for this guy to develop? 

 

They were sick of waiting for him to stay healthy. 

[MRW]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Just because other teams are making terrible personnel decisions at the TE position doesn’t mean the Bills should do the same. It’s no different then the Cowboys or Panthers paying massive deals to Zeke and McCaffery in that regard. Bad business. The difference though is that a truly elite  TE is worth $20 million + per year. But we are talking Kelce and prime Gronk and Kittle and Andrew’s to a lesser extent. Basically you have to be a top 3 TE talent. Beyond that i think TE’s are easily interchangeable.

 

Thus far the Hunter Henry and Jonu Smith signings have been a failure for the patriots.

 

In fact, the Smith contract might be the worst value  contract among TE’s  in all of football in terms of cap hit for 2022.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2022/tight-end/cap-hit/

 

Fair point about Henry and Smith for sure. Thanks for the link to the TE salaries, they're kind of all over the place right now and I'm not even sure what will be considered the "going rate" as the cap goes up. I hope the Bills don't overpay to the extent that Cleveland did, but it would be nice if they can make it work.

[TheWeatherMan]

8 hours ago, Manther said:

 

Njoku is below average in my mind.  Dumpster fire STILL in Cleveland!

Brown have $109M in tied cap charges for Watson, Cooper and Garrett in 2023.  For comparison, the Bills have $79M in 2013 cap charges for Allen, Diggs and Miller.

 

$30M more for a QB who may still never play again, a WR who is way over rated and amazing pass rushing talent who is a complete lunatic and a dumb move away from a long term suspension.  Browns are a complete and utter dumpster fire.  

[Doc Brown]

I was surprised when they put the franchise tag on him and I'm even more surprised they gave him 28 million guaranteed.  I need to see the contract details but there's no way he should make 28 million guaranteed based off what he's done so far in his career.

 

They're banking on untapped potential and a future explosion in the TE market.  Give me OJ Howard at one year 3.5 million who has just as much potential as Njoku.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

14 hours ago, wjag said:

Cleveland is determined to break contract barriers. 

 

14 hours ago, wppete said:

Who’s in control in Cleveland? What a disaster! 

 

12 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

idk who is dumber when it comes to contracts. the browns or jags. they are imbeciles 

Maybe an accountant needs to tell Haslam the wholesale price of fuel has likewise gone up? 🤔

[BarleyNY]

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I think he’s injured a lot

He has not.  Since being in the NFL he’s only missed games due to injury in 2019.  He was out most of the season with a broken wrist.  I believe he also had a concussion on the same play.  This is year 5 and that’s been it. 

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

He has not.  Since being in the NFL he’s only missed games due to injury in 2019.  He was out most of the season with a broken wrist.  I believe he also had a concussion on the same play.  This is year 5 and that’s been it. 

 

He was banged up most of 2020 too. Not sure how many games he actually missed (think it was a few) but he played hurt a fair bit. 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

He has not.  Since being in the NFL he’s only missed games due to injury in 2019.  He was out most of the season with a broken wrist.  I believe he also had a concussion on the same play.  This is year 5 and that’s been it. 

You’re wrong

[Magox]

Either the franchises and agents know something about the size of the cap substantially increasing in the coming two years or these ridiculous new contracts for the receivers we have been seeing is about to correct.  

[RunTheBall]

Signing OJ was not only to upgrade the TE2 position but to hedge against Knox overpricing himself.

 

IDK why but I think Knox is going to be willing to take a reasonable deal to keep the band together. Beane has been pretty good at hitting the sweet spot with Josh, Diggs, Dawkins, Milano where these guys get paid well but don’t break the bank and price themselves off the team like Hill did with KC.

 

It’s Poyer that I’m getting the “show me the money” vibes and that’s probably just from his obnoxious wife’s posts. Who knows what the discussion is behind the scenes with Beane but if anything I’m thinking a 2 year deal with an out while they find his successor.

[CNYfan]

14 hours ago, Logic said:

I think there’s a reasonably good chance that Trey McBride would’ve been our second round pick if he had been on the board at pick 57. I think they wanted to safeguard against Knox pricing himself out of their range.

 

I think they’ll try hard to re-sign Knox, but won’t overpay for him if he demands too much. 
 

You simply can’t pay everyone. If it came down to, say, Oliver or Knox, I’m going with the d-lineman over the tight end every time.

I also think that McBride would have been the selection in the second round.   

[Matt_In_NH]

He made a nice leap in 2021 and had 49 catches for 587 yards and 9 TD's.   .  While he did "lead the league" in TD's, I am not putting him in the top tier of TE's just yet, 9 TD's leading the league is actually lowish for the league for a TE compared to other years and part of the reason he got 9 is because of number 17.   I love Knox, but to justify top 5 TE money I would like to see more production, the fact Njoku got what he got makes negotiating tough for the Bills.  What is his grade as a blocker?   I do think he is capable growing more still but it would be nice in this offense to see him up around 800-1000 yards if we are paying him 15 million per.  Having said all that, if he is getting an extension, it is always better to do it sooner than later.

[Tanoros]

17 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I respectfully disagree. It took years to develop him into one on the best TE’s in the league. TE’s are an important part of a quality NFL offense these days. I’d pay him what the market expects for the talent that he is and keep weapons for Josh at every skill position. Surround Josh with talent and let him do his thing. I know the cap is an issue………..but there are ways. 

 

Full disclosure, I was higher on Knox than most early, even with his dropsies. Now that he looks like a top TE, I’d just hate to see him wind up somewhere else. There is a way. 

 

 

 

Even before the breakout year, there were flashes that showed what he could be. The drops help him back in our eyes, but the flashes were impressive! If we can extend him before the season to spread out the cost, I’m good. I trust Knox, and I trust Beane. 

 

 

.

 

Perhaps it comes down to something as simple as Knox vs Tremaine as far as resigning goes? Their costs should be pretty close. 
 

I’m sure Beane can find a way to keep both too, but at a minimum, it should be as simple as this. 

[Augie]

12 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I think you are over rating Knox’s production last year if you say he was one of the best TE’s in the league. 
 

He ranked 18th and 15th respectively among TE’s in receptions and yards. Far from top 5 or even top 10. 
 

Sure he was tied for first in TD’s but that is a stat that is typically far less repeatable from year to year.

 

I wouldn’t want to pay that kind of cash to Knox if he only matches last years numbers. If he can succeed them by a decent amount I’d be okay with it. 

 

You are looking merely at stats. I am considering talent, trajectory and chemistry. Knox is on the rise, and the ceiling is pretty high. Hopefully the stats keep him affordable, because a good TE is an important ingredient in our offense going forward. 

[gobills404]

Comically bad signing by the browns

[T master]

After that signing i bet both Howard & Knox are smiling all day long . I hope they can keep Knox seeing as he is one of the Bills draft choices Howard i would like to see stay but if he has a good year i see him looking for the huge pay day from another team & if the cap goes up he should get it ! 

[machine gun kelly]

20 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

OJ Howard was a somewhat sneaky under the radar signing and will probably be TE1 here in 2023 assuming Knox becomes too expensive to keep. He had decent numbers in TB before Gronk came there to play with Brady. Obviously can draft another one next year too.

 

Just one of many reasons this team needs to do whatever it takes to win a championship this year before this roster stats to look very different.

Knox isn’t going anywhere.  I’ll agree Howard is better than people are giving him credit as I live in Tampa and we get Alabama games every week.  I’ve seen every game for him for a long time.  So we can agree on Howard and we’ll respectfully disagree on Knox.  
 

He’ll be the priority over Edmunds and even Poyer.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Poyer signs an extension of two years in training camp.  It’s just off season fodder.

[RyanC883]

20 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

was waiting for a thread on this today…completely agree this is silly and it means Knox will command big money. I just don’t get it-didn’t Cleveland bring in the now departed Hooper because they were sick of waiting for this guy to develop? 

 

“I just don’t get it”.  Everyone’s reaction to most Browns moves.  

 

Next up:  big extension for Mayfield?

[Chandler#81]

On 5/27/2022 at 4:44 PM, YoloinOhio said:

400 yard season incoming 

C’mon, Yolo. He missed 5 games then played with a recovering broken hand. 
funny comment though, ya Prick! 😉

On 5/27/2022 at 6:31 PM, MRW said:

 

Also, between this contract and what the Patriots handed out to two TEs last offseason, if you want a credible receiving threat you're going to have to pay a fair amount regardless. I don't think the Bills should go bargain hunting for a starting TE, so finding a way to keep Knox around will be important. Also it will help maintain good relations with Allen, not that that should be the overriding concern.

Imo, the emergence of TE’s is a direct result of most teams now playing 5 & 6 DBs. Even the linebackers are morphing into cover guys. I love me some Milano, but he’d have been cut as rookie on the ‘70’s Steeler teams, if he was even drafted.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

 

You are looking merely at stats. I am considering talent, trajectory and chemistry. Knox is on the rise, and the ceiling is pretty high. Hopefully the stats keep him affordable, because a good TE is an important ingredient in our offense going forward. 

Not sure how else to rank tight ends around the league. Everything else is very subjective. If Knox puts in a 1000 yard season then he’ll firmly be in that best tight ends in the league list.

 

 

[BarleyNY]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was banged up most of 2020 too. Not sure how many games he actually missed (think it was a few) but he played hurt a fair bit. 

He wasn’t injured.  He got Covid.

[Nelius]

On 5/27/2022 at 6:04 PM, CapeBreton said:

Would be pretty wild if they just re-sign OJ for 2022, likely at a much cheaper price than Knox who could walk for a huge payday. 
 

That is an absurd contract for Njoku, he’s an average TE at best, come on Cleveland. 

 

Absurd. I've had Njoku and Howard in the same tier, pretty much ranked back to back as league TE's, for years now. I actually prefer Howard because his YPC has been so insane for a TE for his career, should pair well with Josh.

[JoPoy88]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They were sick of waiting for him to stay healthy. 

True gunny good point. Cleveland makes so many ??? moves I always immediately question s***.

[ganesh]

Today I was listening to  Locked On Bills and Joe Marino had an interesting take.  The caller suggested that the Bills may go 12 personnel more this year with the addition of O.J Howard and James Cook.  He believes the speed at the RB position gives Allen a lot more option.  Similarly,  Howard is very strong with his blocking and this could end up releasing Knox through the seam a lot more and he may benefit with the scheme to get more than the 49 catches he had from last year/.     The writer referenced the Panthers doing this with two of the best TE in the league at that time (Shockey and Olsen).

 

Interesting topic to discuss.   I think our offense is really going to be dynamic.  

 

Additional comment:  We have Mike Shula and Brady as coaches in the offense....they should help Dorsey become a better play caller.   

 

The same goes on the defensive side.  With addition of Miller on the front seven and Kair Elam as a starting CB who doesn't need help, may force Poyer and Hyde to play true center field without having to cheat to go support the CBs. This might give them a better chance to match and cover the opposing TEs.

 

The Bills have probably put together their best team in several years;  even better than the past two years....They will have no excuses to win the AFC East. the AFC and the Superbowl.  Go Bills!

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

8 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Today I was listening to  Locked On Bills and Joe Marino had an interesting take.  The caller suggested that the Bills may go 12 personnel more this year with the addition of O.J Howard and James Cook.  He believes the speed at the RB position gives Allen a lot more option.  Similarly,  Howard is very strong with his blocking and this could end up releasing Knox through the seam a lot more and he may benefit with the scheme to get more than the 49 catches he had from last year/.     The writer referenced the Panthers doing this with two of the best TE in the league at that time (Shockey and Olsen).

 

Interesting topic to discuss.   I think our offense is really going to be dynamic.  

 

Additional comment:  We have Mike Shula and Brady as coaches in the offense....they should help Dorsey become a better play caller.   

 

The same goes on the defensive side.  With addition of Miller on the front seven and Kair Elam as a starting CB who doesn't need help, may force Poyer and Hyde to play true center field without having to cheat to go support the CBs. This might give them a better chance to match and cover the opposing TEs.

 

The Bills have probably put together their best team in several years;  even better than the past two years....They will have no excuses to win the AFC East. the AFC and the Superbowl.  Go Bills!

 

 

 

No excuse if they don't win the Super Bowl?

 

You're right, the Bills have a good team and should win the AFCE.  But there's enough parity in the league that you can't assume the 'best' team will win it all.  In my mind, it's all about probability.  

 

There are 32 NFL teams.  If they were all equally talented, each would have a roughly 3% chance of winning the Super Bowl.

 

But they are not equally talented.  The best teams have maybe a 10% or so chance of winning the SB while the worst teams have a probability of 1% or less.  

 

I'll cry tears of joy if the Bills hoist the Lombardi.  But I won't blame McD or anyone else if the Bills make a good run only to fall short.   

 

 

[ganesh]

2 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

  

 

I'll cry tears of joy if the Bills hoist the Lombardi.  But I won't blame McD or anyone else if the Bills make a good run only to fall short.   

 

 

They already fell short the last two years at Kansas City.    They really have no excuses this year after all the off season addition.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

They already fell short the last two years at Kansas City.    They really have no excuses this year after all the off season addition.

 

I agree they have no excuses to fail but that doesn't mean they will succeed. It is the NFL. Any given Sunday. The best team does not always win the Superbowl and that is because the talent gap between the top 10 or 12 teams is minimal. 

[CoudyBills]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:35 AM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I think you are over rating Knox’s production last year if you say he was one of the best TE’s in the league. 
 

He ranked 18th and 15th respectively among TE’s in receptions and yards. Far from top 5 or even top 10. 
 

Sure he was tied for first in TD’s but that is a stat that is typically far less repeatable from year to year.

 

I wouldn’t want to pay that kind of cash to Knox if he only matches last years numbers. If he can succeed them by a decent amount I’d be okay with it. 

He was also at roughly 50 to 65 percent of the targets per game as the top guys.  He has a top tier average per catch at 12 yards.  Pitts at 15.xx then the rest of the top guys in the 12 range.  They don't throw to him enough.  4.7 targets per game.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

"Hey, y'all!  I'm a 49er now!"

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

"Hey, y'all!  I'm a 49er now!"

Who tf is this lol

[JerseyBills]

On 5/27/2022 at 4:39 PM, Process said:

It's been trending this way for a couple years now.

 

This guy has 148 catches in 5 years

 

Knox will get $15M per. Should the bills be the one to pay it?

 

 

Great question.  

To be honest I wouldn't pay him that much. I'd let him walk. He did have an impressive 9 TD in a breakout year but under 600 yards. 

I don't know if we can keep Knox and Gabe . I'm aware we have Gabe for 2 more years but I'd rather throw him a bunch of money than Knox. We can't keep em all , unfortunately.  

Unless he turns into a Kelce/Kittle type, I think we have no choice but to let him walk next year

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Who tf is this lol

Ex Bengal, Bill, and Jet Tyler Kroft.  Quite a few here referred to him as 'HR Pufnstuf'.

[GoBills808]

17 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

He wasn’t injured.  He got Covid.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns-activate-david-njoku-from-injured-reserve-after-three-game-absence-due-to-knee-injury/amp/

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/browns-activate-david-njoku-from-injured-reserve-after-three-game-absence-due-to-knee-injury/amp/

Wow. Odd that draftsharks missed that one:

 

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/david-njoku/7770

 

He had Covid at the end of 2021:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32883355/cleveland-browns-activate-te-david-njoku-covid-19-list?platform=amp

Edited May 30, 2022 by BarleyNY

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Who tf is this lol

 

[BillsShredder83]

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I've taken worse home from the bar 🤷‍♂️

[Spiderweb]

On 5/27/2022 at 4:39 PM, Process said:

It's been trending this way for a couple years now.

 

This guy has 148 catches in 5 years

 

Knox will get $15M per. Should the bills be the one to pay it?

 

 

Cleveland is an absolute joke of a franchise. The most poorly run team in the NFL.

[BM77356]

I think it will be interesting to see what kind of year OJ Howard has. Knox knows he is playing for a contract. I think we will have a ton of production from the TE position. $15M year. Dorsey had a pretty good tight end while at Miami, Jeremy Shockey

 

 

TE Jaylen Wydermyer, Texas A&M

With solid production (118 catches for 1,468 yards and 16 TDs in 34 games) over three seasons, it's hard to believe nobody drafted this player.

 

I like this kid. I happen to be close to College Station, but he was overlooked in Jimbo's offence. He will start out on the practice squad.