Deshaun Watson admits under oath that Ashley Solis cried at the end of the massage

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

Tangentially since Bauer gets brought up. Basically the MLB basically never suspended anybody for domestic violence until 2016.

 

There were two incidents before then. In 1997 Will Cordero beat the crap out of his wife and resulted in a restraining order. 10 games
 

Julio Mateo beat she short out of his wife and sent her to the hospital. 8 games.

 

I think the move by the MLB to start cracking down on it forces the league to be pretty severe here. In the past they could just say “Hey, yeah 5 games isn’t a ton, but have you seen baseball? They haven’t suspended anybody….ever!”

 

Can somebody smarter than fill me in on whether or not a criminal case can or is likely to be reopened? 
 

Everything I have read was that a grand jury decided not to pursue like 10 cases. And a couple other one offs in other counties were declined by DA’s. But that’s not 24 incidents that we’re seeing in civil court? 

 

Yes, they could be re-opened but it is very unlikely. It would take a genuine smoking gun revelation that changes this from a he said, she said type of case. Basically needs some physical evidence or 3rd party witness testimony. 

[YoloinOhio]

7 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

I believe that some of the women giving the massages were not actually licensed though, I’m not sure how someone can not be licensed and give massages. But the fact that an NFL qb is going to unlicensed massage therapist is pretty shady stuff. So he’s basically saying that since they weren’t licensed, the same rules don’t apply and everything was consensual.

Several. He got massages from a personal trainer, makeup artist, esthetician, stretch therapist, a massage therapy student, and someone who does body scrubs. All suing him.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2022/03/deshaun-watson-lawsuits-a-look-at-the-accusations-against-new-cleveland-browns-quarterback.html?outputType=amp

Edited June 4, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[BillsFan4]

19 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Ah yes, the foolproof "technically it wasn't illegal" defense. The NFL is sure to buy into this one.

Well, that leaves no doubt in my mind that Watson did what those girls are accusing him of.

 

Sounds like his lawyer is basically saying “watson did it but it didn’t rise to the level of a crime”.

 

(edit: to be fair, I haven’t listened to the whole interview so it’s possible I may be taking this out of context. Not sure how though…)

Edited June 4, 2022 by BillsFan4

[YoloinOhio]

18 hours ago, H2o said:

This just keeps getting worse and worse for Watson imo. After sitting on the stand talking about how he wasn't trying to get anything out of the women because he "had a girlfriend", now his lawyer drops this gem. This sexual predator should never take another snap in the NFL, but I hope they give him at least a 2 year ban. The Browns have to be the dumbest organization in all of professional sports. 

I’m still in amazement Watson's LAWYER went on a radio show and said basically "So what if he asked for sex during his massaged? That's not a crime." 

This entire situation is about showing Watson has a pattern of hiring massage therapists and then asking them to have sex with him. Lordy...

[H2o]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m still in amazement Watson's LAWYER went on a radio show and said basically "So what if he asked for sex during his massaged? That's not a crime." 

This entire situation is about showing Watson has a pattern of hiring massage therapists and then asking them to have sex with him. Lordy...

His lawyer basically admitted guilt. There are so many ills in this whole situation. His lawyer saying massages with a "Happy Ending" are not a crime. The fact Watson paid the business owner $5,000 to send women his way (because he's a nice guy ya know ). The fact that Watson asked to be covered with a towel or, even a wash cloth, instead of a standard sheet. The fact that he solicited NUMEROUS massage therapists. All of the stories of the plaintiffs being dang near identical. The fact that they denied, denied, denied, and now his lawyer makes this statement. The fact he tried to settle twice, but wanted a strict NDA for them to settle. The fact he sat on the stand and committed perjury saying he wasn't looking for sexual favors because he "has a girlfriend". The fact he admitted the one girl was crying, just as she testified, through text messages to her after the incident and claims he didn't know why. The fact his lawyer is now trying to walk back that statement. This guy is an unrepentant predator who doesn't deserve the privilege of donning an NFL uniform ever again. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by H2o

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, H2o said:

His lawyer basically admitted guilt. There are so many ills in this whole situation. His lawyer saying massages with a "Happy Ending" are not a crime. The fact Watson paid the business owner $5,000 to send women his way (because he's a nice guy ya know ). The fact that Watson asked to be covered with a towel or, even a wash cloth, instead of a standard sheet. The fact that he solicited NUMEROUS massage therapists. All of the stories of the plaintiffs being dang near identical. The fact that they denied, denied, denied, and now his lawyer makes this statement. The fact he tried to settle twice, but wanted a strict NDA for them to settle. The fact he sat on the stand and committed perjury saying he wasn't looking for sexual favors because he "has a girlfriend". The fact he admitted the one girl was crying, just as she testified, through text messages to her after the incident and claims he didn't know why. The fact his lawyer is now trying to walk back that statement. This guy is an unrepentant predator who doesn't deserve the privilege of donning and NFL uniform ever again. 

Right so Watson apparently lied at his press conference about this too if we believe his lawyers. Jimmy and Dee Haslam, Andrew Berry, and anyone else involved with making this decision flat out don't care how awful this is.

They'd rather win football games (if they actually do, the man won 4 games the last season he played). What in the actual hell.

Edited June 4, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[YoloinOhio]

20 hours ago, cle23 said:

 

That doesn't say he sent a text saying he makes them uncomfortable.  It says that one of the women told another woman that he said it to her.  Not disputing whether it happened or not, but a text is written proof.  That would make the situation more if clear if he had sent it as a message.

Text, Snapchat, Instagram DM, etc whatever he used to communicate with them (he used all of these per the accusations)  doesn’t matter - his own lawyer already told on him yesterday. The only thing his lawyer is denying anymore is that what he did can be prosecuted as a crime according to the specific statutes in those 2 Texas counties.

Edited June 4, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[qwksilver]

I love how Watson's attorney changed from they are all liars to happy endings aren't crimes.

 

Playing in the NFL is a dream and a privilege not a RIGHT. NFL (Goodell) needs to ban this predator for life.

 

There has to be a video or some damning evidence out there somewhere. He needs to be in prison.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

36 minutes ago, qwksilver said:

I love how Watson's attorney changed from they are all liars to happy endings aren't crimes.

 

Playing in the NFL is a dream and a privilege not a RIGHT. NFL (Goodell) needs to ban this predator for life.

 

There has to be a video or some damning evidence out there somewhere. He needs to be in prison.

 

 

The damning evidence, for anyone who bothers to pay attention, is the TWENTY THREE women who have come forward telling basically the same story, with many of those women not knowing of the others' existence or the details of their stories.

 

For anyone who has actually bothered to study some of the details of the complaints, it is more than obvious that Watson is a fairly sophisticated sexual predator, with a well developed MO.

 

Many of the women are not even masseuses...and that was part of the plan.

 

He deliberately preyed on women who, in theory, were just happy to have a star on their resume, and who wouldn't necessarily know what is commonly accepted or not accepted in the world of massage.  Women who would be afraid to raise a red flag and speak out, for fear of the damage it would do to their fledgling businesses. 

 

Further, let's not forget that Watson is a young, famous, athletic guy, and rich.  He can land a hot girlfriend with the rest of them if he wants.  He could also pay some money and easily have wild massage fantasy sex sessions with professional sex workers.

 

NO!  That's not what this predator wanted.  Rapists don't want sex, they want rape.

 

He WANTED to threaten and scare young women, make them feel nervous and fearful...as something in that is clearly what got him off.  He's a sex predator....that's what they do and what they need.  

 

I don't expect the NFL to do anything about it, and he will be playing as normal this year.

 

 

[teef]

13 hours ago, Mango said:

Tangentially since Bauer gets brought up. Basically the MLB basically never suspended anybody for domestic violence until 2016.

 

There were two incidents before then. In 1997 Will Cordero beat the crap out of his wife and resulted in a restraining order. 10 games
 

Julio Mateo beat she short out of his wife and sent her to the hospital. 8 games.

 

I think the move by the MLB to start cracking down on it forces the league to be pretty severe here. In the past they could just say “Hey, yeah 5 games isn’t a ton, but have you seen baseball? They haven’t suspended anybody….ever!”

 

Can somebody smarter than fill me in on whether or not a criminal case can or is likely to be reopened? 
 

Everything I have read was that a grand jury decided not to pursue like 10 cases. And a couple other one offs in other counties were declined by DA’s. But that’s not 24 incidents that we’re seeing in civil court? 

I remember being at a Red Sox game after that happened with Cordero.  The entire park was chanting, “Cordero beats his wife!” Over and over. 

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Text, Snapchat, Instagram DM, etc whatever he used to communicate with them (he used all of these per the accusations)  doesn’t matter - his own lawyer already told on him yesterday. The only thing his lawyer is denying anymore is that what he did can be prosecuted as a crime according to the specific statutes in those 2 Texas counties.

I think this might be because he also has to explain the consensual encounters he's admitted to now that I think about it.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I think this might be because he also has to explain the consensual encounters he's admitted to now that I think about it.

 

Yea. That is what it is. It appears that their litigation strategy is not to say "nothing ever happened" it is to say that so far as Watson understood things there was consent on both sides. Worth reminding people that for the civil court to find him liable they have to be confident that he was reasonably aware that his behaviour was causing damage (presumably intentional emotional distress) and that the plaintiff suffered some loss as a result. 

 

Their strategy now appears to be "okay he is a bit creepy around women, but not in a way that has intentionally damaged or caused loss." And that might be an effective defense if it was 1 or 2 plaintiffs. I struggle to see it being effective with 23. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

The damning evidence, for anyone who bothers to pay attention, is the TWENTY THREE women who have come forward telling basically the same story, with many of those women not knowing of the others' existence or the details of their stories.

 

For anyone who has actually bothered to study some of the details of the complaints, it is more than obvious that Watson is a fairly sophisticated sexual predator, with a well developed MO.

 

Many of the women are not even masseuses...and that was part of the plan.

 

He deliberately preyed on women who, in theory, were just happy to have a star on their resume, and who wouldn't necessarily know what is commonly accepted or not accepted in the world of massage.  Women who would be afraid to raise a red flag and speak out, for fear of the damage it would do to their fledgling businesses. 

 

Further, let's not forget that Watson is a young, famous, athletic guy, and rich.  He can land a hot girlfriend with the rest of them if he wants.  He could also pay some money and easily have wild massage fantasy sex sessions with professional sex workers.

 

NO!  That's not what this predator wanted.  Rapists don't want sex, they want rape.

 

He WANTED to threaten and scare young women, make them feel nervous and fearful...as something in that is clearly what got him off.  He's a sex predator....that's what they do and what they need.  

 

I don't expect the NFL to do anything about it, and he will be playing as normal this year.

 

 

Right, this is it.

 

Watson doesn’t have a kink. In a big city like Houston I am sure there are a host of professional eroticists who are proficient in “finishing” a massage and not part of any Asian sex trafficking ring. And if there aren’t enough in Houston he can fly them in from NYC, LA etc. like he did a host of other IG models.
 

This was never about getting off sexually. Or at least his kink isn’t happy endings or even orgasms. It’s power and assault.  
 

I do think he gets suspended though. The NBA has banned lists. MLB has suspended people for a full season a couple times now. The poster child for suspensions based on conduct in the NFL is Vick. Every other major suspension has basically been suspended for pot and gambling. 
 

(Ray Rice initially got two games. Then moved to indefinite which was overturned)

Edited June 4, 2022 by Mango

[RaoulDuke79]

Browns are so dumb. Never been a huge fan of Baker, but somewhere deep inside he has to be laughing. They did him dirty.

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

The damning evidence, for anyone who bothers to pay attention, is the TWENTY THREE women who have come forward telling basically the same story, with many of those women not knowing of the others' existence or the details of their stories.

 

For anyone who has actually bothered to study some of the details of the complaints, it is more than obvious that Watson is a fairly sophisticated sexual predator, with a well developed MO.

 

Many of the women are not even masseuses...and that was part of the plan.

 

He deliberately preyed on women who, in theory, were just happy to have a star on their resume, and who wouldn't necessarily know what is commonly accepted or not accepted in the world of massage.  Women who would be afraid to raise a red flag and speak out, for fear of the damage it would do to their fledgling businesses. 

 

Further, let's not forget that Watson is a young, famous, athletic guy, and rich.  He can land a hot girlfriend with the rest of them if he wants.  He could also pay some money and easily have wild massage fantasy sex sessions with professional sex workers.

 

NO!  That's not what this predator wanted.  Rapists don't want sex, they want rape.

 

He WANTED to threaten and scare young women, make them feel nervous and fearful...as something in that is clearly what got him off.  He's a sex predator....that's what they do and what they need.  

 

I don't expect the NFL to do anything about it, and he will be playing as normal this year.

 

 

And this is exactly why evidence of what he did with the other women will be admissible at trial...

 

I know there are a lot of victims here, but I am enjoying the hell out of seeing this dumpster fire get worse and worse for the Browns, Watson and his laughably bad defense team...Caserio must be laughing his ass off...     

[The Wiz]

On 6/3/2022 at 3:00 PM, WotAGuy said:

Is it still a “happy ending” if no one leaves happy?

They call that the "give your wife a back rub"

 

She ends up not liking it and you end up not getting any. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by The Wiz

[Motor26]

I mean Bauer got 2 years for one woman accusing him. I think Roger would look weak if he didn’t give him at least a full year. So I expect him to get 6 games. 

[Augie]

3 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Browns are so dumb. Never been a huge fan of Baker, but somewhere deep inside he has to be laughing. They did him dirty.

 

Leave it to the Browns to create a situation where everybody loses, except the dirt bag who got the guaranteed contract. I mean Baker loses, the fans lose, the team loses in games (unstable QB situation) and cap space………and the NFL as a whole loses with the precedent of that guaranteed contract. I don’t expect the other 31 owners to be very happy with Haslam. 

 

Browns, please keep your losing ways to yourself. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:03 PM, wppete said:

 

I think Deshaun will be playing in the prison yard before he does for the Browns. What a disaster of a franchise.

 

 

 

I doubt it

[Richard Noggin]

8 hours ago, Motor26 said:

I mean Bauer got 2 years for one woman accusing him. I think Roger would look weak if he didn’t give him at least a full year. So I expect him to get 6 games. 

2 women, to be accurate. But those cases smell a bit different than this (Watson) one in several ways. Bauer has been uniquely responsive to the accusations against him, and of course defiant in those fast responses. He never acted like a legal client looking to minimize civil damages down the road (the way Watson MOST DEFINITELY has). Doesn't make him innocent, but it does clearly differentiate these two cases, alongside the obvious difference in sheer volume of accusations, as well as the nature of them. 

[BillsFan4]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/03/deshaun-watsons-lawyer-rusty-hardin-contends-sexual-activity-during-a-massage-is-not-a-crime/
 

Quote

Does anyone believe these massages were therapeutic? He’s a professional athlete. He would want to find one person who consistently gives him the kind of massage that allows him to get the most out of his abilities, not a revolving door of people with varying levels of skill and experience who may or may not enhance his on-field performance — and who potentially could with one wrong move impair it.

I think this is a really good point.
 

It’s really hard to imagine that Deshaun Watson was constantly seeking out new inexperienced and unlicensed massage therapists, who always had to be female, for any therapeutic or performance related reasons.
 

At very best it seems he was looking for female massage therapists to have random sexual encounters with. At worst he’s a serial sexual predator who shows absolutely no remorse for his actions, and maybe doesn’t even see that his actions were wrong.

[Mr. WEO]

How is his lawyer not conceding that his client engaged in criminal activity?

 

"Solicitation of Prostitution Under the New Texas Penal Code §43.021. Under the new Texas law, it remains a crime to solicit prostitution even if no money is exchanged (or other form of payment) and/or no sexual conduct transpires. It remains a crime in Texas merely to ask for sex in exchange for any type of payment."

 

If he's paying these women for a massage, and asking for a happy ending, how is that not solicitation?

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

How is his lawyer not conceding that his client engaged in criminal activity?

 

"Solicitation of Prostitution Under the New Texas Penal Code §43.021. Under the new Texas law, it remains a crime to solicit prostitution even if no money is exchanged (or other form of payment) and/or no sexual conduct transpires. It remains a crime in Texas merely to ask for sex in exchange for any type of payment."

 

If he's paying these women for a massage, and asking for a happy ending, how is that not solicitation?

Maybe cause he paid for the massage and not for sex. If I pay for a massage then after ask for a haircut…I didn’t pay for that haircut…only the massage. I asked for the haircut as a favor.

 

In reality I have a hard time believing he never  straight up offered money tho. But the way you framed makes it easy for an attorney to counter.

[AuntieEm]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/03/deshaun-watsons-lawyer-rusty-hardin-contends-sexual-activity-during-a-massage-is-not-a-crime/
 

I think this is a really good point.
 

It’s really hard to imagine that Deshaun Watson was constantly seeking out new inexperienced and unlicensed massage therapists, who always had to be female, for any therapeutic or performance related reasons.
 

At very best it seems he was looking for female massage therapists to have random sexual encounters with. At worst he’s a serial sexual predator who shows absolutely no remorse for his actions, and maybe doesn’t even see that his actions were wrong.

 

Aren't there any federal laws he may have broken that would not be calling on the Texas grand jury but a federal one did he fly in any of the ig massueses from other states?  At the vary least this a case where imho a undercover task force should investigate and even conduct a sting where he is videotaped and if he's some innocent that's what tape will show, but if he is shown to assault the woman they arrest him and try him for it.  Don't know if his guaranteed contract would pay out if he is found criminally guilty? 

[Big Turk]

Maybe he should be renamed Georgy Porgy Pudding Pie, kissed the girls and made them cry?

2 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Aren't there any federal laws he may have broken that would not be calling on the Texas grand jury but a federal one did he fly in any of the ig massueses from other states?  At the vary least this a case where imho a undercover task force should investigate and even conduct a sting where he is videotaped and if he's some innocent that's what tape will show, but if he is shown to assault the woman they arrest him and try him for it.  Don't know if his guaranteed contract would pay out if he is found criminally guilty? 

 

They already said they are not criminally trying the case. Likely because the DA knows all it takes is one or two to be exposed as not being truthful to take down the entire case. And they likely know it's far more than one or two not being truthful about it.

 

Probably 3 or 4 legit ones and the rest are money grabs.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Big Turk

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

Maybe cause he paid for the massage and not for sex. If I pay for a massage then after ask for a haircut…I didn’t pay for that haircut…only the massage. I asked for the haircut as a favor.

 

In reality I have a hard time believing he never  straight up offered money tho. But the way you framed makes it easy for an attorney to counter.

 

Yea, you have to prove the money is for something other than the service and that is again practically impossible without physical evidence or 3rd party testimony. 

[YoloinOhio]

40 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Aren't there any federal laws he may have broken that would not be calling on the Texas grand jury but a federal one did he fly in any of the ig massueses from other states?  At the vary least this a case where imho a undercover task force should investigate and even conduct a sting where he is videotaped and if he's some innocent that's what tape will show, but if he is shown to assault the woman they arrest him and try him for it.  Don't know if his guaranteed contract would pay out if he is found criminally guilty? 

Yes he flew one one from Georgia 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Probably 3 or 4 legit ones and the rest are money grabs.

 

Where do you get these numbers from?

[Big Turk]

39 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Where do you get these numbers from?

 

How these things work many times

[Warcodered]

38 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Where do you get these numbers from?

Apparently a woman once kept making excuses for not going out with him instead of just telling him they weren't interested, therefore many women would be willing to lie about something like sexual assault/harassment for money. 

 

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

How these things work many times

 

What are "these things"? What does "many times" mean? If there's a specific pattern you're alleging you should probably elaborate on that.

 

There's a couple people in this thread who have argued that we shouldn't take a side in a he said/she said case, and then have gone on to take a side. If you're going to take the side that almost 90% of the plaintiffs are liars, be prepared to defend that claim.

 

The simplest explanation is that Deshaun Watson hired dozens of massage therapists throughout Houston because he was seeking something other than a massage. Your claim is that he did that all innocently and randomly picked 3 or 4 of them to sexually harass. It's a really specific and bizarre narrative you're painting. And you just casually throw it out there like it's obvious.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by HappyDays

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

How is his lawyer not conceding that his client engaged in criminal activity?

 

"Solicitation of Prostitution Under the New Texas Penal Code §43.021. Under the new Texas law, it remains a crime to solicit prostitution even if no money is exchanged (or other form of payment) and/or no sexual conduct transpires. It remains a crime in Texas merely to ask for sex in exchange for any type of payment."

 

If he's paying these women for a massage, and asking for a happy ending, how is that not solicitation?

Did you lose your song book?  Because this is very different than the tune you were singing about Bob Kraft.

[Behindenemylines]

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

How these things work many times

Proof please. Show me the stats because I call BS on this 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Behindenemylines said:

Proof please. Show me the stats because I call BS on this 

Regretting something after the fact does not make it illegal if it was consented to while it happened.

 

 

[smuvtalker]

On 6/4/2022 at 9:28 AM, H2o said:

His lawyer basically admitted guilt. There are so many ills in this whole situation. His lawyer saying massages with a "Happy Ending" are not a crime. The fact Watson paid the business owner $5,000 to send women his way (because he's a nice guy ya know ). The fact that Watson asked to be covered with a towel or, even a wash cloth, instead of a standard sheet. The fact that he solicited NUMEROUS massage therapists. All of the stories of the plaintiffs being dang near identical. The fact that they denied, denied, denied, and now his lawyer makes this statement. The fact he tried to settle twice, but wanted a strict NDA for them to settle. The fact he sat on the stand and committed perjury saying he wasn't looking for sexual favors because he "has a girlfriend". The fact he admitted the one girl was crying, just as she testified, through text messages to her after the incident and claims he didn't know why. The fact his lawyer is now trying to walk back that statement. This guy is an unrepentant predator who doesn't deserve the privilege of donning an NFL uniform ever again. 

My friend you are speaking 100% straight facts.  I am bewildered as to what is taking Goodell so long to make a decision regarding what Watson's punishment will be.  I don't know why, but I have this horrible, sinking feeling deep in my gut that Watson will get what amounts to a slap on the wrist.  I don't have any legitimate explanation for feeling this way, but I do.  I agree with you wholeheartedly that I don't think he should ever be allowed to play again.  However, I can't shake this negative feeling that Watson somehow dodges a big one, and gets something like a 3 or 4 game suspension.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Regretting something after the fact does not make it illegal if it was consented to while it happened.

 

 

And in these 24 circumstances you personally have established consent somehow. 

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

My friend you are speaking 100% straight facts.  I am bewildered as to what is taking Goodell so long to make a decision regarding what Watson's punishment will be.  I don't know why, but I have this horrible, sinking feeling deep in my gut that Watson will get what amounts to a slap on the wrist.  I don't have any legitimate explanation for feeling this way, but I do.  I agree with you wholeheartedly that I don't think he should ever be allowed to play again.  However, I can't shake this negative feeling that Watson somehow dodges a big one, and gets something like a 3 or 4 game suspension.

 

Goodell does not make the decision.  
 

It goes to an independent arbitrator to make the decision and then Goodell enforces it.

 

At this point right now with 2.5 months before the first game - why does it matter.  Why does the NFL have to rush the decision when the courts are taking depositions and will not be making a decision until middle of next year.

 

This is exactly how the NFL got in trouble with the Ray Rice situation - the wife did not pursue anything - there were no criminal charges - the NFL tried to interview and came down with a 2 game suspension and then the video gets leaked and they look stupid. 
 

I would hope the NFL puts him on the commissioner’s list until this is done, but at the present moment - more women are still coming forward and more details - so I am not sure the NFL will act until the legal side is done - Vegas seems to feel that way by where the odds they are giving Cleveland.

 

We will see, but he has already sat out 1 season and I will suspect he has more time missed coming up - I just do not see a reason to rush to make a judgement let it keep playing out and hopefully kick the predator out for as long as possible - I wish forever, but I don’t expect that because of the Union.

 

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

And in these 24 circumstances you personally have established consent somehow. 

 

He said/she said at this point. 

[Warcodered]

27 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

He said/she said at this point. 

More like he said and she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, she said, and counting.