Bills match Bears Offer Sheet for Ryan Bates, 4 yr deal

[Beerball]

42 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am higher on Bates then most....has excelled every time he has been given a chance

The question wasn't about talent, it was about whether or not he was going to be a Bear. You said he would.  & you being higher than most on a player is a given for every player who has ever donned the uniform.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

I find this very peculiar.

 

Beane did not tender him with a 2nd round designation that would have given abates $3.9 million and would have provided the Bills with a 2nd round pick if he was signed elsewhere.

 

But Beane was willing to give him a 4 year deal with an average of more than $4 million per season.

 

I must be missing something.

 

What is peculiar about this?

 

As has been stated numerous times - the Bills obviously wanted to do a longer term deal with Bates, but as an RFA it would be a disservice for the agent to sign a deal with 1 year before FA.

 

If they had been stupid and used the 2nd round tender - you get him at 1 year 3.9 million and then with a full year of tape - he becomes a FA and you most likely lose him.

 

I am sure Beane had an AAV that he wanted on a longer term deal.  Playing the matching card makes it easy to get the long term deal done.  Using the RFA tag perfectly - get a fair contract on limited snaps and signed before a year with Kromer as an agile lineman.

 

What you are missing is Beane played this perfectly.

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I never said that or intimated that. 

 

I simply said Beane chose not to tender him for what would have been a slightly lower amount, and would have provided additional protection (via a 2nd round pick).

 

 

 

And would have only been 1 year rather than 4.  
 

 

[Punching Bag]

40 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

5-D Chess out hereeeeeeeeeee

 

Beane plays Go not chess,  A lot more possibilities.

[John from Riverside]

17 minutes ago, Beerball said:

The question wasn't about talent, it was about whether or not he was going to be a Bear. You said he would.  & you being higher than most on a player is a given for every player who has ever donned the uniform.

 

 

Just based off the contract I thought the bears would give him with money biult into the first year.   The bears have cap space.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Why does Bates automatically (or even probably) walk next year? is he going to take personal offense at being given a tender?

As far as the misplay is concerned, I think you provided my answer: "no one is making him an offer if it costs a 2nd rounder". So, now instead of us being able to make an offer on our terms, we had to compete with the highest bidder.

 

Because instead of 5 games as a starter - after next year - he has hopefully over 20 games as a starter and as an unrestricted FA with prices going up - most likely cashes in at a bigger rate.

 

Bates is a nice fit with Kromer - who like athletic lineman and should be an excellent fit and benefit from better coaching in a better scheme fit.

 

Basically your idea is a very short term savings of 250K for this year and then hope you can get something done as a FA next year.

 

Beane decided that a small increase this year might be worth the long term stability of the added 3 years he got on this deal.

 

Short term and I mean very short term your contract saves a tiny bit.  Long term planning - Beane has you beat badly in this.  
 

Sorry, but you are just wrong as far as most seem to be concerned.

 

 

[Beerball]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Just based off the contract I thought the bears would give him with money biult into the first year.   The bears have cap space.

It's ok. Nobody is right all the time.

[Doc]

Now we just need a starting CB and they can use the draft to upgrade the lesser talent.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

If Crowder isn’t clearly better than Beasley this year…

 

…then I think we can safely say matching Bates’ contract was a mistake.

[BillsShredder83]

4 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

If Crowder isn’t clearly better than Beasley this year…

 

…then I think we can safely say matching Bates’ contract was a mistake.

The two arent related though????

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

The two arent related though????

They are, like my post says

[BillsShredder83]

5 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

They are, like my post says

We didnt cut Beasley to sign anyone, let alone Bates. I love Bease, but the dude did not want to be here... at all... and it was obvious in his body language. Still, we cut Bease what 2 weeks ago? Using our magic ball to predict the great climax to the 79 page Rick Bates thread?

[Maynard]

Love it! Had to bring him back. 

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, DapperCam said:

So we have...

Dawkins - Saffold - Morse - ? - Brown

And the question mark could be Ford, Bates, or Boettger?

I'm guessing the plan is for Bates to replace Saffold next year.

I think Bates continues to play at LG and Saffold moves in to RG.

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

Now we just need a starting CB and they can use the draft to upgrade the lesser talent.

They will need two as it si not clear when White will be back

[Bag of Milk]

Adam Rank on Twitter:

 

·

The most beloved athlete in Chicago history:

 

Michael Jordan Walter Payton That lineman from that team whose offer sheet got matched.

 

[LyndonvilleBill]

2 hours ago, Motor26 said:

Still want a tackle who can play guard brought in no later than round 4 in the draft. I’m not completely sold on Bates or Brown and need competition and/or a solid backup. 

I'm with you for the most part on this.

 

Love the Bates signing and was all for it. But he's an average run blocker (too light in the pants) but he's a very good pass blocker. Hasn't played a full season as a starter. Will he wear down? 

 

Our line got better when he came in, but, Dawkins also got healthier around the same time and started playing to expectations. Bates played better than Ford, Feliciano and Boetteger, but that's not hard to do. Made less mistakes. Also the OL change how they played. Improved running game helped as well (chicken or the egg.🤔).

 

He's also currently our backup center. If we didn't extend Morse or he retired, I think Bates was plan A.  Heaven forbid something happens to Morse and we have to shift him to center. Then what? Ford to RG?

 

I'm hopeful that Ford can improve with a new coach, but, not sure I want to have him as the only option. Boetteger? Have not really heard much of how he's doing after his injury. Are we sure if he will even be ready to play this season or when.

 

Still want a T/G maybe 4th rnd or later though.

[BillsMailman]

So we’re looking at a possible starting line of 

 

Dawkins-Safford-Morse-Bates-Brown

 

 

[BigAl2526]

6 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

So we are drafting 7 CB's... perfect 

Seven CBs and punter.  Buffalo still has 8 picks - 2 picks in round 6.

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

I find this very peculiar.

 

Beane did not tender him with a 2nd round designation that would have given abates $3.9 million and would have provided the Bills with a 2nd round pick if he was signed elsewhere.

 

But Beane was willing to give him a 4 year deal with an average of more than $4 million per season.

 

I must be missing something.

 

Pretty simple. Beane has faith that what he saw last season from him in a small sample size will continue. This is proven by his matching the deal. If he signed him to a one year 2nd round tender - then he'd be a FA again after this season. And if he performs up to expectations, the price tag would have went WAY up. 

 

So in letting him go out and test the market now, he was able to get him long term this year at a much lower price than he expects to have had to next season. 

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, BillsMailman said:

So we’re looking at a possible starting line of 

 

Dawkins-Safford-Morse-Bates-Brown

 

 

 

Yep and Safford says he's getting over the shoulder injury that nagged him last season

 

[Big Turk]

30 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I'm with you for the most part on this.

 

Love the Bates signing and was all for it. But he's an average run blocker (too light in the pants) but he's a very good pass blocker. Hasn't played a full season as a starter. Will he wear down? 

 

Our line got better when he came in, but, Dawkins also got healthier around the same time and started playing to expectations. Bates played better than Ford, Feliciano and Boetteger, but that's not hard to do. Made less mistakes. Also the OL change how they played. Improved running game helped as well (chicken or the egg.🤔).

 

He's also currently our backup center. If we didn't extend Morse or he retired, I think Bates was plan A.  Heaven forbid something happens to Morse and we have to shift him to center. Then what? Ford to RG?

 

I'm hopeful that Ford can improve with a new coach, but, not sure I want to have him as the only option. Boetteger? Have not really heard much of how he's doing after his injury. Are we sure if he will even be ready to play this season or when.

 

Still want a T/G maybe 4th rnd or later though.

 

Except your theory about run blocking seems a little strange considering the Bills started running the ball at a pace near the top of the NFL in yards per game once he started playing...clearly he had a very positive effect on the run game because Singletary started looking really good at about the same time as well.

[Doc]

42 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I think Bates continues to play at LG and Saffold moves in to RG.

They will need two as it si not clear when White will be back

Saffold said he’ll be playing LG. 

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

Because instead of 5 games as a starter - after next year - he has hopefully over 20 games as a starter and as an unrestricted FA with prices going up - most likely cashes in at a bigger rate.

 

Bates is a nice fit with Kromer - who like athletic lineman and should be an excellent fit and benefit from better coaching in a better scheme fit.

 

Basically your idea is a very short term savings of 250K for this year and then hope you can get something done as a FA next year.

 

Beane decided that a small increase this year might be worth the long term stability of the added 3 years he got on this deal.

 

Short term and I mean very short term your contract saves a tiny bit.  Long term planning - Beane has you beat badly in this.  
 

Sorry, but you are just wrong as far as most seem to be concerned.

 

In fact Beane likely got Bates more offers including longer term offer without 2nd round pick since teams were not required to give Bills a 2nd round pick.

With a 2nd pick required less teams will be bringing him in offer and less competition.

[Warcodered]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

Saffold said he’ll be playing LG. 

I'm not sure how definite he was about it, he did also clarify that he's played everywhere on the line.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Warcodered

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

I'm not sure how definite he was about he did also clarify that he's played everywhere on the line.

 

IIRC he said something to the effect, he's willing to play either guard position but for now, he's been told to plan on LG

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

In fact Beane likely got Bates more offers including longer term offer without 2nd round pick since teams were not required to give Bills a 2nd round pick.

With a 2nd pick required less teams will be bringing him in offer and less competition.

 

With the 2nd round tender - no one was going to make an offer.  
 

The 2nd round tender for a guard was the stupidest way to go because it meant paying him 3.9 million for the year AND then he gets to be a FA next year with and entire year of film available.

 

Instead we get a 4 year deal locked into place with a touch more up front and a better bargain later on.

 

 

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

Saffold said he’ll be playing LG. 

 

I thought offense line coach Aaron Kromer was in charge of who plays where? 

He may have been told he is going to play LG but if he believes Bates as LG and Saffold is RG is better combination that is what they will go with.

 

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

IIRC he said something to the effect, he's willing to play either guard position but for now, he's been told to plan on LG

Beane also said that Saffold would be playing next to Dion Dawkins

Edited March 29, 2022 by YoloinOhio

[Punching Bag]

7 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

With the 2nd round tender - no one was going to make an offer.  

 

I disagree there was not a chance no one would make an offer.  Teams do make offers I cannot believe.

But odds were better this way.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, Motor26 said:

IF by some miracle Penning is there at 25 do you draft him still? 

Yes, our LG is a 1 year deal and old.

[ColoradoBills]

6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

At first I was confused as to why they didn't put him on a 2nd round tender so they could have had him for cheaper with no competition.

 

But now that I think about it, I wonder if this was what Beane wanted all along. He wanted Bates to sign a long term deal with another team so that he could get Bates locked up long term at what his market is now after a small sample size. As opposed to what he perceives his market will be after a full year as a starter.

 

Caution:  LAMP

 

It's what I have posted numerous times in these Bates threads.

Beane played this perfect.

 

IF Beane put a 2nd Round Tender on Bates no teams would of bid on him.  Then the Bills would of had him as a starter at $4M for

1 year.  Next year after Bates was starting he would be an UFA wanting a LOT more.

 

Beane is playing "Pinochle" and the rest are playing "Go Fish".

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

Reading through this thread and realizing that this was Beane's plan all along, I have to say he is probably the best financial GM in the league. His drafts and overall talent evaluation haven't been stellar. But he knows better than anyone how to structure contracts and manipulate the salary cap to win now without sacrificing the future. He uses rules that most of us didn't even know existed to his advantage. All of us are panicking about the interior OL, meanwhile Beane is sitting back waiting patiently to lock up a young OG with upside for 4 years with a more than reasonable AAV. His moves don't always work out but they always make a lot of sense, which is a quality that has been lacking at OBD for the past 20+ years.

[Motor26]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Reading through this thread and realizing that this was Beane's plan all along, I have to say he is probably the best financial GM in the league. His drafts and overall talent evaluation haven't been stellar. But he knows better than anyone how to structure contracts and manipulate the salary cap to win now without sacrificing the future. He uses rules that most of us didn't even know existed to his advantage. All of us are panicking about the interior OL, meanwhile Beane is sitting back waiting patiently to lock up a young OG with upside for 4 years with a more than reasonable AAV. His moves don't always work out but they always make a lot of sense, which is a quality that has been lacking at OBD for the past 20+ years.

He really needs to nail this draft. They might only have 4 or 5 guys drafted who make the final 53 so they need to make them count. Quality over quantity should be his approach to the draft this year, as they really don’t have any major holes, assuming he adds at least 1 corner before the draft, which I am expecting. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Motor26 said:

He really needs to nail this draft. They might only have 4 or 5 guys drafted who make the final 53 so they need to make them count. Quality over quantity should be his approach to the draft this year, as they really don’t have any major holes, assuming he adds at least 1 corner before the draft, which I am expecting. 

 

Agree with quality of quantity but with the exception of CB. P and a KR none of these rookies will probably crack a starter role.

They will be in the mix later in the season and next year.  It's about filing the pipeline.

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

Quality over quantity should be his approach to the draft this year, as they really don’t have any major holes, assuming he adds at least 1 corner before the draft, which I am expecting. 

 

I have come around to the idea that we should give up our 3rd rounder to move up in the 2nd. Based on the draft value chart that could get us from pick 57 to picks 43 or 44 with Atlanta and Cleveland respectively. Both of those teams could use the extra draft capital. Give me 2 players between 25 and 45 that have a good chance of contributing this year, ideally a CB and a WR in either order. No hesitation I'd sacrifice the 3rd round for that return.

[Motor26]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Agree with quality of quantity but with the exception of CB. P and a KR none of these rookies will probably crack a starter role.

They will be in the mix later in the season and next year.  It's about filing the pipeline.

Looking at the depth chart the only real holes are WR4, backup IOL, number 3 TE, CB, and P. Could always use edge rushers and more DBs, but starters wise I agree with you. WR4 could end up being WR2 next year, and TE3 could be TE2 or even 1 if they can’t keep Knox, and backup IOL will replace Saffold so even though they aren’t starters, they’re going to be important pieces to have for the future. I doubt Tre is ready week 1 and I don’t want them to rush him back if they can get by with Dane + early draft pick on the outside. 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

my bad, I read through the first 5 or so pages and the last couple. That said, I don't at all agree it was correct.

 

I don't see the argument that this was a bad move. Why would you take a solid OLman for 1 year $4m and then they hit free agency, over 4 years $17m? Is it just the small sample size or what?

[ColoradoBills]

Shout out for the Sabres with a game winning goal with 10 seconds left.

 

Team is turning around!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Shout out for the Sabres with a game winning goal with 10 seconds left.

 

Team is turning around!

We forget, even with Eichel and Reinhart they were drafting #1 overall multiple years. There’s a lot of talented young players in the system. This time it’s more about team building. Goalie is the piece they’re missing:

Edited March 29, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Thurman#1]

Glad to hear Bates will be back. Somewhat surprised it will cost so little.

 

Good news.

 

As for the whole "It's down to CB" movement, there's lots of time left and lots of FAs available before the draft. 

[BillsfaninChicago]

Payback for Israel Idonije! I have no idea how I remember that…