Warcodered Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: are we sure it was Atlanta and he wasn't getting prepared for something else? Edited April 2, 2022 by Warcodered 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 10:31 AM, wjag said: For a dude with so much exposure, I'm shocked they didn't insist on it. "With so much exposure" Heh I see what you did 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Oh ***** a pool table that turns into a massage table. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 2, 2022 Share Posted April 2, 2022 16 hours ago, Warcodered said: are we sure it was Atlanta and he wasn't getting prepared for something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behindenemylines Posted April 3, 2022 Share Posted April 3, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 11:31 AM, wjag said: For a dude with so much exposure, I'm shocked they didn't insist on it. Exposure….that’s funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2022/04/05/judge-rules-deshaun-watson-must-answer-sex-massage-therapists/9476728002/ Damn, dude!! Trying to catch Wilt Chamberlain's record?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 16 minutes ago, Dopey said: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2022/04/05/judge-rules-deshaun-watson-must-answer-sex-massage-therapists/9476728002/ Damn, dude!! Trying to catch Wilt Chamberlain's record?!? I remember, they had a bunch of other masseuses come forward to defend him when it initially came out. Man that was ***** dumb, all it really did was make the number he'd seen even more ridiculous. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 39 minutes ago, Warcodered said: I remember, they had a bunch of other masseuses come forward to defend him when it initially came out. Man that was ***** dumb, all it really did was make the number he'd seen even more ridiculous. That’s right, it ended up adding up to like 40+ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Warcodered said: I remember, they had a bunch of other masseuses come forward to defend him when it initially came out. Man that was ***** dumb, all it really did was make the number he'd seen even more ridiculous. One of the dumbest legal strategies of all time, now looking dumber every day… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 3/30/2022 at 7:12 PM, TBBills said: This seems like it's going to backfire on the Browns. I am excited to watch this dumpster fire. What are the chances we trade Keenum back for more than he cost us? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Quote Two of the women who are suing NFL quarterback Deshaun Watson amended their lawsuits this week to add claims of negligence and gross negligence, arguing that Watson knew of his own sexual proclivities in massage sessionsbut failed to take precautions to prevent a reoccurrence of them. Quote The attorney for the 22 women, Tony Buzbee, told USA TODAY Sports Thursday that more lawsuits will be adding causes of action for negligence and gross negligence. "Deshaun Watson has denied he acted intentionally; we believe strongly that we will prove he did," Buzbee said. "We have also added a claim for negligence allowing a jury to assess liability for unreasonable and imprudent conduct as well. This claim is just another through which the jury can assess liability and damages against him. We will likely add this claim for most of the cases, although perhaps not all." Quote Almost all of the lawsuits otherwise have claims of civil assault and emotional distress against Watson. Two others have sexual assault claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Sounding like he's going to need that guaranteed money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Purely from the perspective of a law geek the negligence thing is very interesting. That would appear on the face of it extremely difficult to prove. In order for someone to liable in negligence you must first be able to prove that they had, under the law, a duty of care to the plaintiff that they breached. While it is well established that a service provider has an implicit duty of care to a service user in the discharging of that service provision, in the case the situation is flipped. The attorney for the plaintiffs is going to have to demonstrate that, in law, the service user (i.e. Watson) had a duty of care to the person he was paying to provide a service. I will be interested to see how that gets argued. Presumably the argument they will run is that the duty goes with the power dynamic and thereby in this relationship Watson owed that duty to the massage therapists. I am not an expert in US jurisprudence but certainly to argue that successfully in a civil negligence case in the UK would be novel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Purely from the perspective of a law geek the negligence thing is very interesting. That would appear on the face of it extremely difficult to prove. In order for someone to liable in negligence you must first be able to prove that they had, under the law, a duty of care to the plaintiff that they breached. While it is well established that a service provider has an implicit duty of care to a service user in the discharging of that service provision, in the case the situation is flipped. The attorney for the plaintiffs is going to have to demonstrate that, in law, the service user (i.e. Watson) had a duty of care to the person he was paying to provide a service. I will be interested to see how that gets argued. Presumably the argument they will run is that the duty goes with the power dynamic and thereby in this relationship Watson owed that duty to the massage therapists. I am not an expert in US jurisprudence but certainly to argue that successfully in a civil negligence case in the UK would be novel. Great point. Is receiving a massage "performing an act"? It way hinge on concepts of social contract. Also the "foreseeability" would likely be the controlling factor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 He will very likely face a suspension , even if 1 season could be worth it for Browns unless Baker turns into a franchise QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Purely from the perspective of a law geek the negligence thing is very interesting. That would appear on the face of it extremely difficult to prove. In order for someone to liable in negligence you must first be able to prove that they had, under the law, a duty of care to the plaintiff that they breached. While it is well established that a service provider has an implicit duty of care to a service user in the discharging of that service provision, in the case the situation is flipped. The attorney for the plaintiffs is going to have to demonstrate that, in law, the service user (i.e. Watson) had a duty of care to the person he was paying to provide a service. I will be interested to see how that gets argued. Presumably the argument they will run is that the duty goes with the power dynamic and thereby in this relationship Watson owed that duty to the massage therapists. I am not an expert in US jurisprudence but certainly to argue that successfully in a civil negligence case in the UK would be novel. I think it was Watson that wanted to discharge his service provision a little too often and that led to all of this. Edited April 8, 2022 by 4merper4mer 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 7 hours ago, ALF said: He will very likely face a suspension , even if 1 season could be worth it for Browns unless Baker turns into a franchise QB. Sorta want to see Baker become a top 5 QB after this 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 8 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: Sorta want to see Baker become a top 5 QB after this I was discussing with someone even if you take away the PR problems with this move do you actually expect Watson to be a top 5 QB in the next two seasons? I think Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers will almost certainly be better and I would expect Herbert, Burrows, Stafford and Dak to be better for the next two years most likely. The next group is tightly bunched so I would not even state he is guaranteed to be top 10. This move will only pay off if Browns win SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 59 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I was discussing with someone even if you take away the PR problems with this move do you actually expect Watson to be a top 5 QB in the next two seasons? I think Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers will almost certainly be better and I would expect Herbert, Burrows, Stafford and Dak to be better for the next two years most likely. The next group is tightly bunched so I would not even state he is guaranteed to be top 10. This move will only pay off if Browns win SB. Anything other than a Superbowl with leave some Brown and stinky on their faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-curious-case-of-deshaun-watson-and-the-swanky-hotel-in-houston/ar-AAWrzVm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d6eeb2f69dc4473dbd89065f716abbb2 Hotel that provides licensed massage therapists, still brings in unlicensed ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 5:49 AM, GunnerBill said: Purely from the perspective of a law geek the negligence thing is very interesting. That would appear on the face of it extremely difficult to prove. In order for someone to liable in negligence you must first be able to prove that they had, under the law, a duty of care to the plaintiff that they breached. While it is well established that a service provider has an implicit duty of care to a service user in the discharging of that service provision, in the case the situation is flipped. The attorney for the plaintiffs is going to have to demonstrate that, in law, the service user (i.e. Watson) had a duty of care to the person he was paying to provide a service. I will be interested to see how that gets argued. Presumably the argument they will run is that the duty goes with the power dynamic and thereby in this relationship Watson owed that duty to the massage therapists. I am not an expert in US jurisprudence but certainly to argue that successfully in a civil negligence case in the UK would be novel. Sounds like a longshot amendment to try and get a bigger settlement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 2:49 AM, GunnerBill said: Purely from the perspective of a law geek the negligence thing is very interesting. That would appear on the face of it extremely difficult to prove. In order for someone to liable in negligence you must first be able to prove that they had, under the law, a duty of care to the plaintiff that they breached. While it is well established that a service provider has an implicit duty of care to a service user in the discharging of that service provision, in the case the situation is flipped. The attorney for the plaintiffs is going to have to demonstrate that, in law, the service user (i.e. Watson) had a duty of care to the person he was paying to provide a service. I will be interested to see how that gets argued. Presumably the argument they will run is that the duty goes with the power dynamic and thereby in this relationship Watson owed that duty to the massage therapists. I am not an expert in US jurisprudence but certainly to argue that successfully in a civil negligence case in the UK would be novel. If I had to guess, I'd say the negligence claims were added in order to trigger coverage under any insurance policies Watson might have. Intentional sexual assault claims would not typically be covered by insurance, but negligence claims almost always are, which means that Watson's insurers would, at a minimum, be on the hook to pay for his legal fees, which are undoubtedly astronomical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 8 hours ago, mannc said: If I had to guess, I'd say the negligence claims were added in order to trigger coverage under any insurance policies Watson might have. Intentional sexual assault claims would not typically be covered by insurance, but negligence claims almost always are, which means that Watson's insurers would, at a minimum, be on the hook to pay for his legal fees, which are undoubtedly astronomical. It is a good point about trying to trigger the insurance liability. You are likely right. Still going to be extremely tricky to establish though I think. Harder than simply establishing liability for the sexual assaults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It is a good point about trying to trigger the insurance liability. You are likely right. Still going to be extremely tricky to establish though I think. Harder than simply establishing liability for the sexual assaults. If the idea is to trigger insurance coverage, it almost doesn’t matter if they can ultimately prove negligence or not. The mere fact that it’s alleged in the complaint means that the insurer has to pickup the defense costs for the entire case…and since those costs are huge in a case like this, the insurer becomes willing to write a big check to help settle the whole thing. Watson would have to contribute too, of course, but it’s another source of funds…and it allows Watson to later say he was “innocent”, but his insurers made him settle with the women. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 18 hours ago, Warcodered said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-curious-case-of-deshaun-watson-and-the-swanky-hotel-in-houston/ar-AAWrzVm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d6eeb2f69dc4473dbd89065f716abbb2 Hotel that provides licensed massage therapists, still brings in unlicensed ones. Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage? It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKBillFan Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, SoTier said: Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage? It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense. Whatever she thought to begin with, or whether she was just desperate for some income and took the risk, the moment she said no then Deshaun should not have forced himself on her, which is the claim being made. It’s one thing which is being promoted in the U.K. when it comes to rape and sexual assault - people are permitted to change their mind even if they seem willing to begin with. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, SoTier said: Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage? It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense. Exactly...furthermore, no one forced her to give a massage, in the first place... We live in an age where no one wants to accept accountability... And, to be honest, I still haven’t heard what Watson has, specifically, done wrong...did he actually rape them? Or assault them in any way? Obviously if he did, he should be punished....but everything seems so vague to this point... Edited April 22, 2022 by JaCrispy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 2 hours ago, SoTier said: Call me naive or old fashioned, but why would a woman who isn't a licensed masseuse -- ie, she's not a professional masseuse -- expect that some big time celeb who invited her to a hotel room for a "massage" actually wanted only a massage? It seems to me that the "negligence" here is on the part of the women who failed to exercise common sense. I'm not quite sure about the theory on all unlicensed Instagram masseuses being hookers. 🤦♂️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, Warcodered said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-curious-case-of-deshaun-watson-and-the-swanky-hotel-in-houston/ar-AAWrzVm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d6eeb2f69dc4473dbd89065f716abbb2 Hotel that provides licensed massage therapists, still brings in unlicensed ones. Quote In one case, two weeks after meeting a woman on Instagram, he flew her in from Atlanta to give him a massage in his suite at The Houstonian, where she said he exposed himself and caused his genitals to touch her inappropriately on Aug. 28, 2020, according to her lawsuit against him. Instead of arranging to have this unlicensed therapist come all the way to Houston, there were easier massage options available to him that day, when his team, the Houston Texans, did not practice after holding a scrimmage the day before. The Houstonian offered professional luxury massage spa services at the Solaya Spa & Salon by The Houstonian, just three miles away from the hotel. The hotel even provided a free shuttle to get there and back, plus discounts to all guests in 2020 and gifts with treatments to hotel guests, according to the hotel. 😬 Edited April 22, 2022 by BillsFan4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said: 😬 At a minimum, Watson seems like a huge creep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Warcodered said: I'm not quite sure about the theory on all unlicensed Instagram masseuses being hookers. 🤦♂️ Im sure they aren’t all hookers, but when I’m swiping around on Tinder in Atlanta, there sure seems to be quite a few who are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDubya76 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 3 hours ago, JaCrispy said: Exactly...furthermore, no one forced her to give a massage, in the first place... We live in an age where no one wants to accept accountability... And, to be honest, I still haven’t heard what Watson has, specifically, done wrong...did he actually rape them? Or assault them in any way? Obviously if he did, he should be punished....but everything seems so vague to this point... The moment she says NO to him, the scenario should end. Without consent you cannot rub your deal on a woman or present your deal like the hors d’oeuvre she never ordered. Regardless if she is licensed/unlicensed, a prostitute/fan girl/normal lady, in his hotel room or anywhere else, You just can’t. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 5 hours ago, SoTier said: Call me naive or old fashioned, but ……. You are naive or old fashioned. You’re welcome. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 44 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: At a minimum, Watson seems like a huge creep 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 15 minutes ago, JDubya76 said: The moment she says NO to him, the scenario should end. Without consent you cannot rub your deal on a woman or present your deal like the hors d’oeuvre she never ordered. Regardless if she is licensed/unlicensed, a prostitute/fan girl/normal lady, in his hotel room or anywhere else, You just can’t. Is that what happened? If so, if the woman is not an escort or prostitute, I would agree, you cannot do that... However, if she is an escort or prostitute (where those sorts of things are legal) and those were the services you agreed to, through a transaction of some sort (typically monetary), than I would have to say that’s fair game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Is that what happened? If so, if the woman is not an escort or prostitute, I would agree, you cannot do that... However, if she is an escort or prostitute (where those sorts of things are legal) and those were the services you agreed to, through a transaction of some sort (typically monetary), than I would have to say that’s fair game... I think you’ve successfully gotten inside Watson’s head. Congratulations. Must be scary in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WotAGuy said: I think you’ve successfully gotten inside Watson’s head. Congratulations. Must be scary in there. Lol...I must admit, I’m a little more liberal when it comes to grown adults making consensual agreements with each other...that’s why the details are of the utmost importance in this situation...👍 Edited April 22, 2022 by JaCrispy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotAGuy Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 Just now, JaCrispy said: Lol...I must admit, I’m a little more liberal when it comes to grown adults making consensual agreements with each other...that’s why the details are of the utmost importance in this situation...👍 He’s accused of sexual assault, which is akin to rape in Texas. His plans and intentions are not what some of these women were expecting or wanting. He sounds much like a sex addict. Addicts often have a distorted sense of right and wrong when it comes to the behaviors associated with their addictions. As an alcoholic, I’m speaking from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, UKBillFan said: Whatever she thought to begin with, or whether she was just desperate for some income and took the risk, the moment she said no then Deshaun should not have forced himself on her, which is the claim being made. It’s one thing which is being promoted in the U.K. when it comes to rape and sexual assault - people are permitted to change their mind even if they seem willing to begin with. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I did not catch any accusations that he “forced himself on” any of these women. I saw that two said that he moved his body, which caused his penis to move and touch their hands. I’ve had less than 1% of the massages Watson has had and I’ve had a masseuse bump mine with her hand - and I wasn’t moving. I had a towel on though. I think it is obvious that Watson was looking for more than massages and I’m sure he got more than that from some of the women. I think @SoTier makes a good point. If some of these women weren’t licensed masseuses, then why were they advertising massage services on social media? I can only think of one reason (it’s more than massages). Or maybe Watson asked random women to give him massages for pay. One would have to think that would be for more than massages too. Licensed masseuses are one thing, but the others? Be real. Edited April 22, 2022 by BarleyNY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, WotAGuy said: He’s accused of sexual assault, which is akin to rape in Texas. His plans and intentions are not what some of these women were expecting or wanting. He sounds much like a sex addict. Addicts often have a distorted sense of right and wrong when it comes to the behaviors associated with their addictions. As an alcoholic, I’m speaking from experience. Fair enough...and you may be right his potential sex addiction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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