Trading Edmunds makes no sense at this point

[delirious]

3 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

I think there is a deference in saying he is average vs he sucks.  I got no problem if they can find a better option.  But to think you can just plug anyone in there is not really a sensible argument. 

 

There's roughly 20 linebackers that I think are better than him. That might as well be below average, certainly not on the good side of it

Edited March 18, 2022 by delirious

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

If Edmunds was anything close to being a solid MLB, he would have been locked up by now.  The guy takes rides from RB's and O lineman. Does not effectively cover.  He consistently leads the league in tackles four yards past the first down maker.  He sucks.  

[bubba2018]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

This is the TB Game. Look at how flat footed he plays. There are a couple of plays where the DTs get worked back to him but man doesn't flow downhill at all on run plays. He doesn't process. 

 

 

What about the play where he tipped a pass on 4th down and completely changed the momentum of that game? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

If Edmunds was anything close to being a solid MLB, he would have been locked up by now.  The guy takes rides from RB's and O lineman. Does not effectively cover.  He consistently leads the league in tackles four yards past the first down maker.  He sucks.  

It’s just not true. That’s what always confuses me about these threads.

 

 

[nedboy7]

12 minutes ago, delirious said:

 

There's roughly 20 linebackers that I think are better than him. That might as well be below average, certainly not on the good side of it

 

Not sure why I would care about your opinion vs basically every expert opinion out there which has him about mid teens for LBs in general.  Oh yeah expert opinions dont matter.  Expert posters matter.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I would like to read some opinions. Who’s at fault on this run?

 

 

Nobody has an opinion on this play? I’ll go 1st. Scheme! 6 blockers vs 5 Bills. The DL slants opposite the direction of the run. Huge hole. Milano plays it soft widening the hole, Edmunds has to cover two gaps.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, FarrellsFinest said:

Imagine giving up on Josh Allen at age 23

 

Another straw man attempt to defend Edmunds...well, iImagine Allen developing as slowly or not at all like Edmunds has.  

 

There's no part of Edmunds' game that's improved since he was a rookie.  Allen OTOH...

[delirious]

9 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Not sure why I would care about your opinion vs basically every expert opinion out there which has him about mid teens for LBs in general.  Oh yeah expert opinions dont matter.  Expert posters matter.

 

Yeah experts are NEVER wrong. GMs don't miss on players ever. 20 is THAT much farther than 16... 🤡

Edited March 18, 2022 by delirious

[Governor]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

He'll be here this year to decide if he'll be here next year. Tons of talent upgrades particularly at DT to help him flow to the ball better and be untouched. Better pass rusher to help him in the pass coverage game. No more excuses for this guy. Time to show what he can do or time to find a new team. 

So we shouldn’t see him run away from the ball and launch himself out of bounds anymore?

 

Gotta start somewhere.

[nedboy7]

3 minutes ago, delirious said:

 

Yeah experts are NEVER wrong. GMs don't miss on players ever. 20 is THAT much farther than 16... 🤡

 

Look at over all linebacker rankings for the past year on every site clown show.  What the ***** does this have to do with GMs missing picks. 

[delirious]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Look at over all linebacker rankings for the past year on every site clown show.  What the ***** does this have to do with GMs missing picks. 

 It was in reference to your experts are the end-all-be-all.

 

What do I need to look up, 2021 linebacker tackles or is there some other metric you'd like me to look up?

[gonzo1105]

42 minutes ago, recovery96 said:

What about the play where he tipped a pass on 4th down and completely changed the momentum of that game? 

 

So he has one good play in the game, I just showed you about 6 not including the swing pass and the angle play. Now of course he had more good plays than just one but it just symbolizes him. Flat footed looking over the line trying to process the play. The play where he actually makes the tackle 5 yards down the field bothers me the most. He's unblocked for a bit and their is a hole to fournettes left, edmunds doesn't recognize it until he's engaged with the lineman. Sure he made the tackle, but if he processed it that 5 yards is probably 1. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

This is the TB Game. Look at how flat footed he plays. There are a couple of plays where the DTs get worked back to him but man doesn't flow downhill at all on run plays. He doesn't process. 

 

 

He engages that pulling guard like he's trying to block him and Fournette blows right by him. I feel like that's exactly the kind of thing that represents who he is as a player.

The other thing he does here is he has to change his angle multiple times in a play because he isn't actually as fast as he thinks he is.

What a brutal watch this whole thing was.

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s just not true. That’s what always confuses me about these threads.

 

 

I mean, if he's soooo good....why haven't the Bills locked him down before he has another monster superstar outstanding season and his price goes even higher?

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Jerboski said:

He isn’t gonna be traded lol

Exactly,  because there's not another team dumb enough to pu that 12.7

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

To me this is pretty funny seems like 2/3 of the posters here say he's terrible and want to get rid of him.  But then turn around and expect a 2nd rounder or more in a trade.

 

If he's a as bad as people say, lucky to get a 5th or 6th for him.

 

I'm sure I'll here how in a different style defense or position he'd be great and worth a 2nd or more.

 

Is he worth the $12 mil, no but doubt he's going anywhere unless traded for much less.  And then that leaves the defense with a big hole.

 

He's made the probowl which I guess means something.

 

But I've said all along, it's not that he's bad as much as it's he's a JAG type of player on this team. But if another team views him as a more natural fit in their scheme and that he's out of place in Buffalo (which I also believe is the case) why wouldn't they give up a 2nd round pick for him especially since he's still very young.

 

A 2nd round pick is best case, but I would also do it for a 3rd rounder especially if the decision has been made we aren't resigning him long term anyway.

[LABILLBACKER]

55 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

He engages that pulling guard like he's trying to block him and Fournette blows right by him. I feel like that's exactly the kind of thing that represents who he is as a player.

The other thing he does here is he has to change his angle multiple times in a play because he isn't actually as fast as he thinks he is.

What a brutal watch this whole thing was.

For 4 years I've cringed watching him play. Yet he still has his cult followers. It will be over soon. Please baby jesus let someone want him for a 3rd. Then go get Wagner.

[In Summary]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

How do you explain our worst game defensively being without Edmunds? Look, I can’t argue against the fact he doesn’t make plays. I also don’t see a lot of plays being made against Edmunds. So it goes both ways. 
 

We all believe a Mike backer is supposed to be around the ball every play and that definitely isn’t Edmunds. I don’t know what they’re asking of Edmunds. I would love to hear McDermott explain what they expect from Edmunds.

 

To me it seems like he’s a MLB version of a 2 gap NT. What’s I meant by that is they use his size and length to clog passing lanes. That seems to be his job. 

The Manute Bol of linebackers 

[Brand J]

How are we 5 pages deep into an Edmunds thread and yet his biggest supporter has yet to show his/her face to tell you all how wrong you are? I’m expecting more Deion Sanders comparisons and disappointed I haven’t seen any. Maybe I’ll put out the “‘Maine Signal” so that poster can crawl out of his cave…

[Big Turk]

They are not trading Edmunds.

 

I can promise you he will get a huge contract next year that most people will be flabbergasted by but around the NFL teams are dying for someone who can cover as much ground as he can and take away as much of the fields passing lanes as he does with his huge wingspan.

 

Nobody cares about stopping the run with MLB's anymore. 

 

There is a reason why the Bills are consistently in the top of the NFL in pass defense and he is a huge reason for it. The easy throws opponents have against other teams are there far less often against us.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Big Turk

[BillsFanForever19]

Say it with me:

 

Tremaine Edmunds isn't going anywhere.

 

Tremaine Edmunds was never going to be traded.

 

If he is not extended before this season (which I still see as a large possibility) and he has a subpar season than maybe, MAYBE next season.

 

But Beane flat out said he disagrees with you naysayers and McDermott has never wavered in his faith in him as the QB of the #1 Defense in the league. Hell, Beane said during his press conference today that he consulted Tremaine during FA on Defensive signings.

 

It's one thing to try to wish something into existence. It's another entirely to expect unrealistic moves like these and get upset when they don't happen.

[LeGOATski]

This was obvious, but I'm not surprised at all that it's gotten to 6 pages already, lol.

[BuffaloTX]

No need for Edmunds. The safety room is already crowded with Hyde. Poyer, and Neal.

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Say it with me:

 

Tremaine Edmunds isn't going anywhere.

 

Tremaine Edmunds was never going to be traded.

 

If he is not extended before this season (which I still see as a large possibility) and he has a subpar season than maybe, MAYBE next season.

 

But Beane flat out said he disagrees with you naysayers and McDermott has never wavered in his faith in him as the QB of the #1 Defense in the league. Hell, Beane said during his press conference today that he consulted Tremaine during FA on Defensive signings.

 

It's one thing to try to wish something into existence. It's another entirely to expect unrealistic moves like these and get upset when they don't happen.

 

It's cause people don't understand how much he effects the opponent pass game by covering so much space and having a huge wingspan...the passes that aren't thrown or completed against us that are against other teams are a huge point...

 

If he isn't here next year, be assured he will be likely setting a record for LB contracts with his new team. 

 

Fans may not like what he does but be assured every other GM is dying to have someone patrolling the middle of the field and disrupting the opponents passing game the way he does.

 

And oh yeah...none of them gives a fvck about his run defending.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

He's made the probowl which I guess means something.

 

But I've said all along, it's not that he's bad as much as it's he's a JAG type of player on this team. But if another team views him as a more natural fit in their scheme and that he's out of place in Buffalo (which I also believe is the case) why wouldn't they give up a 2nd round pick for him especially since he's still very young.

 

A 2nd round pick is best case, but I would also do it for a 3rd rounder especially if the decision has been made we aren't resigning him long term anyway.

 

So what's so bad about having some JAG's on a team?  Yeah the problem with him is he was drafted high so should be better than a JAG.  Diggs and Milano believe  were both 5th round picks, Beasley was undrafted, just to name a couple.  Teams draft guys who end up not being nearly as good as their draft position and others far exceed where they were drafted. Point is it balances out. 

 

How many threads are started about players who don't work out or live up to their contract, many, but how many are there talking about boy how much better that guy is, very few.

 

Just seems to way too much mis placed hatred towards Edmunds purely based on where he was drafted.

[LABILLBACKER]

I'm going to rule out his rookie year because he's so young and raw. And I'm also going to assume that the majority of Bills fans will admit that his strength is pass coverage. Both zone and man. I'm not going get into any run stop arguments. So looking at his last 3 years in pass coverage stats we have:

 

2019  QB Rating- 76.1

           Y/Tgt- 5.1

2020  QB Rating- 114.3

           Y/Tgt- 8.5

2021   QB Rating- 106.1

            Y/Tgt- 8.4

 

So what happened from 2019 to 2020 that created this huge drop in his pass coverage? I've heard the theory that a weaker DL might have contributed. Maybe there's some merit there. Star didn't play in 2020. Also we went from 44 sacks in 2019 to 38 in 2020. We'll know with Von Miller, a 2nd year Groot and improved DT play if Tremaine's coverage numbers improve back to his best season (2019). It's also his contract year so he'll be motivated. We'll know everything we want about 49 this season. Good or bad.  I've never been of fan of his play but I will give him the benefit of the doubt. 

[davefan66]

He isn’t going anywhere.

 

Yeah, could be better but I expect better play out of him with and upgraded d-line.  When the d-line does their job, less responsibility at the 2nd level.

[FireChans]

14 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Say it with me:

 

Tremaine Edmunds isn't going anywhere.

 

Tremaine Edmunds was never going to be traded.

 

If he is not extended before this season (which I still see as a large possibility) and he has a subpar season than maybe, MAYBE next season.

 

But Beane flat out said he disagrees with you naysayers and McDermott has never wavered in his faith in him as the QB of the #1 Defense in the league. Hell, Beane said during his press conference today that he consulted Tremaine during FA on Defensive signings.

 

It's one thing to try to wish something into existence. It's another entirely to expect unrealistic moves like these and get upset when they don't happen.

He won’t be under contract next season so he couldn’t be traded.

[Shaw66]

He will get a new deal with the Bills this summer.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He will get a new deal with the Bills this summer.

Im not a huge fan of his, but I recognize the insane potential that he still has as a modern day linebacker.  
 

I just hate the idea of him playing this year and then us letting him walk for nothing.   
 

I believe Knox & Oliver get new contracts with us, so not sure where the money comes from for Edmunds, but if we get it done.. I don’t hate it.  

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

Yes, thank goodness we have Edmunds to replace Star in that position. Solid depth. 

 

Kelvin Benjamin back on a 1 year contract?....

[Shaw66]

30 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im not a huge fan of his, but I recognize the insane potential that he still has as a modern day linebacker.  
 

I just hate the idea of him playing this year and then us letting him walk for nothing.   
 

I believe Knox & Oliver get new contracts with us, so not sure where the money comes from for Edmunds, but if we get it done.. I don’t hate it.  

I agree, except I dont think Knox will be the priority that Oluver is.  In fact, I'd guess the Bills want Edmund's more than Knox.  Especially if Howard somehow blossoms.  

[RyanC883]

On 3/18/2022 at 1:46 PM, gonzo1105 said:

He'll be here this year to decide if he'll be here next year. Tons of talent upgrades particularly at DT to help him flow to the ball better and be untouched. Better pass rusher to help him in the pass coverage game. No more excuses for this guy. Time to show what he can do or time to find a new team. 

 

i agree this is likely.   But not sure I want to pay what he will likely command for a role player that does not elevate those around him but is only impactful (if he is this year) due to a better DL in front of him.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:25 AM, FilthyBeast said:

It actually does make sense for a number of reasons that have been beat to death including but not limited to:

 

- $12 million in cap space free immediately

- would likely get a 2nd round pick at minimum (possibly more)

- can sign Wagner or other stop gap LB much cheaper, wagner (and others) would be instant upgrade/at worse lateral move.

- despite all the cap maneuvering we aren't going to be able to keep everyone and no way I'm paying $15 - $20 million a season for a guy like Edmunds starting in 2023.

 

At this point he probably stays but still think it's very possible he's moved soon especially the longer guys like Wagner stay on the market.

 

Agree on all the points above. The only reason to keep him is fear of the unknown. If they draft a CB in the first round that can start right away, its very conceivable Edmunds is the worst player on the starting defense.  A second and $12M in cap space to sign Wagner is better than keeping Edmunds for one more year. 

 

But, I dont think this regime is ready to move on from him. I think he will be retained and they see what he does on his contract year. What will be really interesting to see is if he holds out of camp looking for an extension.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Ethan in Portland

[Ethan in Cleveland]

18 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Say it with me:

 

Tremaine Edmunds isn't going anywhere.

 

Tremaine Edmunds was never going to be traded.

 

If he is not extended before this season (which I still see as a large possibility) and he has a subpar season than maybe, MAYBE next season.

 

But Beane flat out said he disagrees with you naysayers and McDermott has never wavered in his faith in him as the QB of the #1 Defense in the league. Hell, Beane said during his press conference today that he consulted Tremaine during FA on Defensive signings.

 

It's one thing to try to wish something into existence. It's another entirely to expect unrealistic moves like these and get upset when they don't happen.

Wishing him to be a capable MLB when he isn't is even worse. But the rest of your post is likely very accurate. Beane and McDermott likely value Edmunds more than much of this fan base. I was in favor of picking up his option. He is essentially on a 1yr prove it deal now. 

Will be very interesting to see if he is a mincamp and training camp hold out.

[Rigotz]

On 3/18/2022 at 1:32 PM, FireChans said:

That’s not true and that’s silly. 
 

Edmunds is a disappointment. But he’s not the worst MLB in the NFL. If your goal is to win a Super Bowl in the next two years, you don’t create a hole at inside linebacker.

 

So... who says we would be creating a hole at linebacker?

 

Miles Jack just got 2 years $16M total.

We're paying Edmunds 1yr $12M.

You think we would replace that $12M salary with nobody?

Or, do you think Bobby Wagner, Joe Schobert, Anthony Hitchens, Dont'a Hightowner, etc. will want more than $12M/yr?

 

The only reason to not trade Edmunds is thinking you can't sign a replacement or you can't get a good enough pick for him.

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

 

So... who says we would be creating a hole at linebacker?

 

Miles Jack just got 2 years $16M total.

We're paying Edmunds 1yr $12M.

You think we would replace that $12M salary with nobody?

Or, do you think Bobby Wagner, Joe Schobert, Anthony Hitchens, Dont'a Hightowner, etc. will want more than $12M/yr?

 

The only reason to not trade Edmunds is thinking you can't sign a replacement or you can't get a good enough pick for him.

 

Sign Wagner first and I’m game.

[LeGOATski]

I don't understand how people can say he's bad, but then expect the Bills to get a high draft pick for him in return. 

 

That sounds dumb. 

 

The Bills will probably extend him at the right price. He seems like a guy that would take a team friendly deal and prefer staying with the Bills. 

 

Playing with Von Miller at end or SLB will be super nice.

[BillsFanForever19]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

He won’t be under contract next season so he couldn’t be traded.

 

I should have specified that I meant moving on from him, not trading him. Although, there is a possibility where he has a great season, we Franchise Tag him, can't come to an agreement on a deal and end up trading him that way.

 

And on top of the other reasons I mentioned, I believe Tim Settle was brought in in large part because of his rapport with Tremaine. I think a large part of Tremaine's (overblown) struggles has been the lack of a consistent solid DT opposite Oliver. I don't think it's a coincidence they decided to bring in the guy in front of him when he was a star in College.

 

Wouldn't make much sense for Beane to decide to do that if moving Edmunds were in his plans.

 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I should have specified that I meant moving on from him, not trading him. Although, there is a possibility where he has a great season, we Franchise Tag him, can't come to an agreement on a deal and end up trading him that way.

 

And on top of the other reasons I mentioned, I believe Tim Settle was brought in in large part because of his rapport with Tremaine. I think a large part of Tremaine's (overblown) struggles has been the lack of a consistent solid DT opposite Oliver. I don't think it's a coincidence they decided to bring in the guy in front of him when he was a star in College.

 

Wouldn't make much sense for Beane to decide to do that if moving Edmunds were in his plans.

 

They're doing the same thing they did with Josh; eliminating the variables. I don't think he gets a new contract until they see how he plays this year. May be a mid-season deal.