Commish Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor. What am I missing? 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 1) He may not want to retire and 2) even if he does, money will still count against the Bills. They don’t get out scott-free, I know that. Oh and 3) I don’t think he’s a guy interested in cutting Beane any favors. Edited March 17, 2022 by JayBaller10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan Huff Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Wouldn’t that be a weird thing to ask someone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just cut him post June 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Actually, I think there may be a good possibility that he does retire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, Commish said: If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor. What am I missing? You're missing the fact that Star has $1.5M amortized signing bonus for this year and next, plus $2.5M guaranteed salary this season. If he retires, the Bills can ask him to pay back $3M and decline to pay him $2.5M Remember the Eric Wood "Retirement Conference" where he very carefully did not use the word "retire"? He had literally millions of reasons to avoid that word. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) Why would he retire and fore-go his $2.5m in guaranteed money? Edited March 17, 2022 by BuffaloRebound 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Still puzzling he's on the roster but even more puzzling that his deal was restructered in a way that didn't give us the option to dump him right now without cap ramifications. Either way would be shocked if he's on this roster heading into camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said: Still puzzling he's on the roster but even more puzzling that his deal was restructered in a way that didn't give us the option to dump him right now without cap ramifications. Either way would be shocked if he's on this roster heading into camp. The deal was restructured before Covid and the opt-out season. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said: Still puzzling he's on the roster but even more puzzling that his deal was restructered in a way that didn't give us the option to dump him right now without cap ramifications. Either way would be shocked if he's on this roster heading into camp. There's this thing that happened called COVID... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, Commish said: If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor. What am I missing? Firstly, what makes you think another team wouldn't sign him and secondly, if he is cut there is a once a career flyer a player can take to be compensated for his yearly salary he would have received before being cut, but he can only do this once in his career. Most likely he would choose to do that this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The deal was restructured before Covid and the opt-out season. I know but my point is that after the restructure year (which was 2021 even though it should have been 2020) it should have given us the ability to dump him or make him an UFA like the situation with many others (beasely, Addison, Butler, etc). The restructure essentially gave star leverage for 2 more seasons which seems pointless in terms of the restructure in the first place. Like others have said, this was clearly Beane's worst deal here in Buffalo but also one of his first so it is what it is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Firstly, what makes you think another team wouldn't sign him and secondly, if he is cut there is a once a career flyer a player can take to be compensated for his yearly salary he would have received before being cut, but he can only do this once in his career. Most likely he would choose to do that this year. So there's a lot of stuff mixed together here. The "once a career flyer" to be compensated for a yearly salary, applies to a vested veteran WHO IS ON THE ROSTER THE FIRST DAY OF THE SEASON. So that only comes into play in September. Second, even if another team signs a released Lotulelei for $2.5M or more, whether the Bills would get relief for that or still be on the hook depends upon whether Lotulelei has "offset language" in his contract. "Offset language" allows guaranteed money owed the player by the contracting club to be "offset" by any money the player earns if he's cut and signed elsewhere. Star's contract overall is pretty terrible for the Bills - he must have a good agent/lawyers - so I doubt he has offset language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Because he’ll say, no…. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I still hold out hope for a "retirement" agreement with Star. That being said if he is a no go with that idea I feel they should NOT let him hang around camp only to be cut in September. Release him now and give whose reps to some other players that may be on the team in the fall. I've been a fan of Star but it's over for me. Move on now and stop the $2.6M dead money hit for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalostu2 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Why not trade Start and a draft pick to a team with space in exchange for a lower round pick? I would have thrown Cole in the mix here as well. These are players that still have value just maybe not at their current number without a kicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansLanda Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 We have to "deal" with him this year. there is no way they can just cut him and eat the dead money - very little chance of any trade...and, hey, with rose colored glasses, maybe he has a big year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I still hold out hope for a "retirement" agreement with Star. That being said if he is a no go with that idea I feel they should NOT let him hang around camp only to be cut in September. Release him now and give whose reps to some other players that may be on the team in the fall. I've been a fan of Star but it's over for me. Move on now and stop the $2.6M dead money hit for next year. Why should he give back money? You get paid crap on your rookie deal so you can earn a 2nd and 3rd contract. He was overpaid, so what? That's not his problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said: Why not trade Start and a draft pick to a team with space in exchange for a lower round pick? I would have thrown Cole in the mix here as well. These are players that still have value just maybe not at their current number without a kicker. Contracts go with the player via trade. That is why no one wanted Cole. No one will want Star either. And trade or cut has no bearing on salary dead cap hit. Edited March 17, 2022 by Ethan in Portland 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, HansLanda said: We have to "deal" with him this year. there is no way they can just cut him and eat the dead money - very little chance of any trade...and, hey, with rose colored glasses, maybe he has a big year. There's still cap savings though. If you believe he's sufficiently replaced - cut him. You can split the dead money over 2 years if you need space this year. 4.1 on a post-june cut is pretty good. Anything you carry over lessens the dead hit in 2023 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansLanda Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, dneveu said: There's still cap savings though. If you believe he's sufficiently replaced - cut him. You can split the dead money over 2 years if you need space this year. 4.1 on a post-june cut is pretty good. Anything you carry over lessens the dead hit in 2023 as well. you still need someone to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Make him an offer he "can't" refuse...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 55 minutes ago, MJS said: Just cut him post June 1st. He doesn't care about Beane or this organization. He kinda checked out over a year ago. Just cut him June 1st and take your lumps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Commish said: If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor. What am I missing? Seriously, would YOU leave money on the table? Granted, you aren't an NFL player making millions. There is still a cap hit for the bonus already paid but not for salary that is NOT guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, Ethan in Portland said: Contracts go with the player via trade. That is why no one wanted Cole. No one will want Star either Someone would owe him - 6.1 + per game active and workout bonuses totalling like 600k. You'd be getting him for 1 year and 6.7M, the 2nd year has a roster bonus of 1M but it isn't guaranteed until the start of 2023. Thats not.. a ton? But it's a lot for a player who isn't that good. Nothing changes anytime soon either - wait til the other guys sign and see if theres a market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Just now, HansLanda said: you still need someone to play Bills would still have Oliver,Jones,Settle, Phillips and a couple others. Most of the DEs lineup inside if needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 57 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You're missing the fact that Star has $1.5M amortized signing bonus for this year and next, plus $2.5M guaranteed salary this season. If he retires, the Bills can ask him to pay back $3M and decline to pay him $2.5M Remember the Eric Wood "Retirement Conference" where he very carefully did not use the word "retire"? He had literally millions of reasons to avoid that word. and if we don’t take it back it’s a dead cap hit because it’s paid money. this thread is not a good one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, dneveu said: Why should he give back money? You get paid crap on your rookie deal so you can earn a 2nd and 3rd contract. He was overpaid, so what? That's not his problem. Team and players come to retirement agreements. My point is Star doesn't have to give money back. An agreement would be he keeps his $5.2M he already got in signing bonus. He would just retire and not show up to camp and give up his 2022 Base Salary guarantee of $2.5M. As far as the $2.5M he could ask the Bills to split it with him. Well paid team players have done things like this in the past. Of course he can say no. My real point is if they are going to cut him after camp just cut him now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Contracts go with the player via trade. That is why no one wanted Cole. No one will want Star either. And trade or cut has no bearing on salary dead cap hit. Cole was on the cusp of being overpaid, and for his age no one wants to extend him. 1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said: Team and players come to retirement agreements. My point is Star doesn't have to give money back. An agreement would be he keeps his $5.2M he already got in signing bonus. He would just retire and not show up to camp and give up his 2022 Base Salary guarantee of $2.5M. As far as the $2.5M he could ask the Bills to split it with him. Well paid team players have done things like this in the past. Of course he can say no. My real point is if they are going to cut him after camp just cut him now. Trade market could theoretically materialize. If you need the 4 milliion now go get it, but if you don't whats the hurry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninSB Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: He doesn't care about Beane or this organization. He kinda checked out over a year ago. Just cut him June 1st and take your lumps. This. At least free up a roster spot for someone else who is motivated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, dneveu said: Trade market could theoretically materialize. If you need the 4 milliion now go get it, but if you don't whats the hurry? I seriously doubt a trade could happen. My thinking is why keep him around eating reps in camp that another player could get the experience from. For all those who say he is worth the money this year I look at is this way. He has a $9.23M hit this year. If he plays out the year the Bills owe him $2.6M next year in signing bonus. That's in essence about $12M in cost for his part time play this year. Sometimes you buy stock in a company that turned bad. Just cut your losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 You don't think that's an odd thing to ask someone to do? "Hey so uhhhhhhh, it would be like cool and stuff if you just like retired" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 They have brought in a ton of DT help. I think Star gets cut. Its a shame to because when he started out last year he actuallly looked good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 As soon as a DT from another team gets injured in camp his trade value goes up. I wonder if Beane waits for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I seriously doubt a trade could happen. My thinking is why keep him around eating reps in camp that another player could get the experience from. For all those who say he is worth the money this year I look at is this way. He has a $9.23M hit this year. If he plays out the year the Bills owe him $2.6M next year in signing bonus. That's in essence about $12M in cost for his part time play this year. Sometimes you buy stock in a company that turned bad. Just cut your losses. Those numbers are absolutely criminal. Easily Beane’s worst signing, but he just landed us Von B'Vsean Miller Jr. so I’ll forgive this one. Hopefully the contract taught him something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brennan Huff said: Wouldn’t that be a weird thing to ask someone? Not as weird as asking for a year off and then coming back still unvaccinated only to be sidelined again. Dude basically embezzled millions over the last few years. Edited March 17, 2022 by Governor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Commish said: If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor. What am I missing? The only way he retires is if you have a wink wink deal to say, hire him on as fan ambassador or something for more money then he's due... of course, that's against the rules and is likely a hefty fine and a 1st round pick. So why do you want the Bills to lose a 1st round draft pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Commish said: If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor. What am I missing? Still the same. Proration will have to be paid. No different savings either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: I still hold out hope for a "retirement" agreement with Star. That being said if he is a no go with that idea I feel they should NOT let him hang around camp only to be cut in September. Release him now and give whose reps to some other players that may be on the team in the fall. I've been a fan of Star but it's over for me. Move on now and stop the $2.6M dead money hit for next year. Yes but then taking on a $7.7 cap hit this year. Is it worth when next years cap is expanding much more so a $2.6 mil hit is a much lower percentage of the total cap. I think if they do sign J Phillips, (maybe was already confirmed and I didn't see the post yet) good chance he's gone in the final cut downs. Basically if they cut him now, they're saving $1.5 mil. What if a couple of DT's get hurt in training camp or pre-season? Keep him around for now, see how camp goes if no big injuries then let him go in September. If you let Star go now and then have injuries, not likely they will find a player as good as he is basically for $1.5 mil which is the saving by cutting him now. As far as reps for other players go, if the team does intend to cut him in September, they can keep him around but keep him mainly on the sideline and give him minimal reps and practice time. He did start off the 2021 season playing well till Covid hit him 1 hour ago, buffalostu2 said: Why not trade Start and a draft pick to a team with space in exchange for a lower round pick? I would have thrown Cole in the mix here as well. These are players that still have value just maybe not at their current number without a kicker. I can think of 9.2 million reason why a team wouldn't want to trade for him, his salary. The Bills may have to throw in a 2nd or a 3rd to get someone with cap space to take on that salary. Throw in Beasley, now a team is taking on close to $16 mil in salary. Trades to dump players have to be sweet deals for the team taking on the player or the player must still be wort hat least close to the contract value. I recall the Texans trading Osweiler and his $16 mil contract along with a 2nd & a 6th round pick to Cleveland for 4th rounder who then cut him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 We're kind of stuck with him this year, are we not ? Might as well enjoy the shooting Star for the 6 or 7 games he might be active for and plan accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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