Bills 2021 rookie class ranked 27th in league

[NewEra]

22 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No.

 

Look around the league. Look in the locker room. He's a two-time Pro Bowler. Most folks aren't in that grey area.

 

Most of what you are calling the grey area I believe still just don't get it. Where are the folks in the locker room who say he's in this grey area you mention? Are they the ones who've voted him captain three years in a row? The ones who 

 

A lot of your grey group indeed thinks he's not worthy of what he'll be paid next year. Where are all those folks in he locker room. They aren't in Beane's office. The Bills love the guy.

 

Great MLBs don't have great physical attributes? Seriously? That's what you're arguing? Yeah, I'd call that nonsense. Edmunds is indeed tall, rangy and fast, but he's also brainy, a leader, willing to play hurt, tough and excellent in the pass game.

 

There are a few great MLBs who weren't physically trait-packed, Zach Thomas for example. But they are few and far between. Most great MLBs (and other positions besides) wouldn't have become great if they didn't have terrific physical traits. Butkus was strong as a horse and hard-hitting, and that was his main attribute, though he had others. 

 

This grey are you mention is indeed bigger than the ones who think he sucks. But it still isn't a big group and nearly all of them are Buffalo fans.

 

In any case, do you see me writing the kind of post I wrote above to more measured posts about the guy, outside of posts that are specifically talking to me like this one? Or more often to the nutballs and fruitcakes with the desperate need to denigrate him whether or not it requires a thread be napped?

 

There certainly is room for discussion on the guy. Anyone who says he's elite is as wrong as the folks screaming about how awful he is. He's got his faults, there's a lot of room for intelligent reasonable criticism. But most of what he gets isn't that. The loudest voices on him are the least worth listening to, I'd say. 

 

 

He’s a two time pro bowler.  Lol.  Oh man.  You’re better than that man.  
 

I said he was good….please don’t act like every player that makes the pro bowl is a franchise changing player, and elite talent or untraceable.  Several pro bowl players move on the following year.  Cole Beasley was 1 team ALL PRO.  Is he THAT good?  No.  He’s good.  Like edmunds.  You’re love affair for this dude is ridiculous and you’ll die on that hill.  
 

He’s the Harrison Barnes (my favorite NBA player) of MLBs.  Super talented and gifted but something in the brain is keeping them from being great.  Good players that could’ve been great……that we’re overpaid based on potential.  Look at barnes since he left the warriors.  Never made the playoffs.  Not because he wasn’t good, but because he was paid too much. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

When asked in his season ending presser about Edmunds, Beane essentially said he “does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up.” That was his biggest praise. He didn’t sound at all like a GM who was ready to sign Edmunds to a long term extension.

 

Since his rookie year, Edmunds makes almost no impact plays (INTs, FFs, FRs, sacks) and still makes many of the same mistakes. Brace yourself for disappointment when Edmunds moves on after his 5th year option. You’ve been by far his loudest supporter. It’s not “a small group of fans” as you alluded to, it’s the majority - proven by the poll here where 75% of TBDers want to move on from Edmunds in some fashion. We’d all love for Tremaine to be a player other teams have to game plan or account for, but I don’t think he’ll ever get to that point. He is what he is and it’s closer to a JAG than playmaker.

 

 

Yes, very few impact plays, as long as you are willing to ignore all the impact plays that don't happen to fit into your categories. Doing which would be ridiculous.

 

That makes a bit more sense if you say "splash plays" instead. It's true he didn't make a ton of the spectacular plays. This is a team defense

 

Impact plays should include plays where he stops a guy short of the first down. Plays where a QB comes off his first read to his second, sees Tremaine nearby, thinks about it but goes to his third and the rush can get there and cause a sack, an INT from pressure or an important incompletion. People don't want to treat those as impact plays, but they absolutely are. The Bills D is a team defense. 

 

When you look at the passing charts for opposing QBs on nextgenstats what you see is that over the middle there are very few passes thrown between the five and about the 18. And that's a pretty common area to target against most defenses. That's the Tremaine effect, or part of it.

 

He doesn't get a lot of INTs because QBs don't like to throw near him. He doesn't get a lot of sacks because he doesn't rush a whole lot. I'd like to see him do more swiping at the ball, but Bills tacklers don't seem to be coached to do that except from behind and if you're not the first guy in the play. Tremaine generally wraps up, which is good but won't get you a lot of fumbles caused. Does he need to improve? Sure. Would I like to see him get more of those? Yeah, who wouldn't. But he still does a good job of doing what they want him to do.

 

And while I have to go to sleep now, so I can't track down exactly what Beane said, I think, "essentially said he 'does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up," is a distortion. Yeah, he said that. It wasn't all he said, and it wasn't essentially what he said. If I have time tomorrow, I'll look up the exact words. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll see tomorrow. But when they say that they're usually saying it in the context of pointing out that Tremaine does more than many people understand and that he's got a tough and extremely crucial job to do even before the snap and that that's always worth pointing out since so many don't want to talk about it as it's pretty Inside Football stuff and kind of boring to some.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Saint Doug]

2 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

 

It actually does work that way.  Drafting at the top is an advantage.  Of course, that does not make your team instantly good....or ever good.  As you mention, see the Sabres.

 

If you draft bad, you can fritter away your draft position, but there is a reason that teams trade up.

I know you weren’t the one who opened this can of worms, but I don’t think it’s fair to compare the NHL to the NFL draft. The NHL draft targets players years away from actually making the team. This makes it very hard to prognosticate success. It’s more of a crapshoot, even for the top 10. Plus, 1st rounders in the NFL are expected to be stars, whereas NHL 1st rounders are expected to be NHL regulars in the least. 

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

For some reason, that's how these online sports forums are.

 

They are predominantly made up of kool aid drinkers incapable of critical objective analysis.

 

Here is the irony---those who defend Edmunds now (for example) will make jokes about him the moment we move on from him and he is on some other team.

 

It never fails! 

 

😯

 

Then there's you who's just always wrong and pretends that everyone is a kool-aid drinker because you're just really, really bad at being objective yourself. I've heard horse tranquillizer can help with that though. Drink up. 

[transient]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

It doesn't work that way.

 

There isn't necessarily a correlation between draft order and draft quality.

 

The top teams in the draft year after year often remain terrible--look at the Buffalo Sabres.

 

And they are picking at the top.

 

27th for the Bills is NOT a good score but the drafting has been pretty terrible under this regime.

 

 

From the day McDermott walked in the door through 2020 they had 30 picks. 11 of them are starters, 9 of them are filling a significant role in certain packages or providing solid depth, 6 are still in the league with other teams (including Wyatt Teller, Zay Jones, Ray-Ray McCloud, Darryl Johnson, and Jake Fromm), and 4 are either out of the league or on practice squads somewhere, none of whom were drafted higher than the 5th round.

 

This doesn't include the 2021 draft class that used the 1st and 2nd round picks regularly in their DL rotation, or their current starting RT.

 

They drafted and developed Allen, Milano, White, Dawkins, Bass, Knox, Davis, Brown.

 

Singletary has had his moments when they're using him correctly. Edmunds may be polarizing, but he's an effective starting MLB. Oliver is coming into his own. Phillips was coming on the second half of the season after the knee injury.

 

The jury is out on Epenesa, and so far he's underperformed. Cody Ford is probably the only obvious bust.

 

How is this "pretty terrible"?

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

McBeane has struggled to find immediate impact in the draft. Especially in the top 100 picks.

This entire board has shown concern for that the last few years.

 

But one article points that out and everybody gets a stick up their butt.

 

Our best pick so far was Brown. By far. Groot was not exciting. Basham couldn’t get on the field. 
 

McBeane have to be better here. Have to! Allen is still only taking $16M next year. We can’t afford to have players in the top 100 picks come on just before new contracts (Oliver, Harry)

We can’t afford to fail in another draft. I don’t think the cap has been managed as good as people think it has. Too many middling players at too high of a salary and now we are up against the cap with several areas that need improvement. We have to renegotiate and make some tough choices. A difference  maker is needed on defense but that doesn’t seem to fit in with how this team has been built. 
I wouldn’t have minded a few in season moves to help us over the hump. What’s better, blowing it all on a Super Bowl or just getting close and and settling for second or third best year after year. I am still disgusted that Cincinnati, F’ing Cincinnati made it before us, and there’s no guarantee we ever get there.

[LABILLBACKER]

So far kinda a C+/B- draft. Groot had that one amazing day but didn't really sustain much. He absolutely has to have a 7-8 sack season at the least this fall. Basham looks slow and more like a 3T than a pass rusher. Spencer needs to get stronger in his legs so guys like Ingram don't toss him to the ground like a little kid. He'll improve at RT. Didn't see enough of Doyle to have an assessment. Stevenson was supposed to be that speed wr and return guy but he was awful and will likely get cut. Wildgoose/Anderson gone.  At this point you gotta pray Brown & Rousseau improve. We need a marquee pass rusher in the worst way.

[78thealltimegreat]

Beane is lucky he hit on Josh cause his picks in the top 2 rounds haven’t been to great…in Brandon’s defense he’s really hit on players in 3 and 4 

But man he needs to not use the Carolina and Green Bay model and keep asking his Demigod he has as QB to

make middle round picks into pro bowlers 

Draft Josh a weapon in the first two rounds for a change 

[All_Pro_Bills]

Going into last year's draft the Bills didn't have a lot of perceived holes in their roster.  They got two rotational players on the defensive line (when Basham was in the line up), a RT starter in Brown precipitated by injuries, and Doyle who came on later in the season as a swing tackle and 6th lineman in certain formations and play calls.

 

But I think there's a different approach to the draft when you're looking to build a roster, or draft to stock certain position groups where you expect to lose veterans in free agency in a year or two, or in situations where the Bills are now.  Where you need to add a couple players to add marginal improvement in performance in a couple places to get you over the top.  

 

My take is Beane needs to alter his approach and go into the draft with the goal of finding 2 or 3, maybe 4 players that will plug in as starters or big contributors week one.  Not high potential projects or college players that need a year or two of pro experience.  It needs to be "all in" for 2022.  That means finding a day one starter at corner opposite Tre White, an upgrade/addition at LB, DT, and some size and speed at the RB spot.  Sure if a player drops in your lap that takes you in another direction that needs to be considered or there might be spots other posters think are more in need than what I think but its win now and the team can't go into the 2002 draft and free agency period with any other goal in mind.   

Edited February 5, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills

[Rocky Landing]

Spencer Brown was the steal of the draft. (Ya hear me, @Zerovoltz?) And while I haven't been a real fan of Bobby Johnson, I do think he (and Daboll) did a great job of developing him, and Doyle (and Boettger, for that matter).

 

[LABILLBACKER]

17 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Beane is lucky he hit on Josh cause his picks in the top 2 rounds haven’t been to great…in Brandon’s defense he’s really hit on players in 3 and 4 

But man he needs to not use the Carolina and Green Bay model and keep asking his Demigod he has as QB to

make middle round picks into pro bowlers 

Draft Josh a weapon in the first two rounds for a change 

If you struggle to get value with your 1st & 2nd round picks, maybe go the Diggs route and trade the pick for proven young talent. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

 

It actually does work that way.  Drafting at the top is an advantage.  Of course, that does not make your team instantly good....or ever good.  As you mention, see the Sabres.

 

If you draft bad, you can fritter away your draft position, but there is a reason that teams trade up.

Yes and no. For the top 15 players sure. After that there isn't much difference for the next 50 or so.  And after the first round there are so many trades and comp picks that draft position really doesn't matter. 

 

I criticize Beane alot and he deserves criticism for taking Basham and not Humphrey.  But getting a starting DE and RT is not terrible. The fact his second round pick barely played is really disappointing.  Groot looks ok. Brown looked ok but also looked awful at times. Brown would have never seen the field if Beane's worst bust Cody Ford was playing. 

[Rocky Landing]

I think it's also worth mentioning that along with drafting so late in the round, we also had so much continuity going into '21, that we were essentially drafting for backup positions. It's hard for players to make much of an impact if they're not likely to see the field. That being said, Groot could very well develop into a serious threat, and Spencer Brown developed spectacularly. And just the fact that six of our draft picks were on the 53 makes that a successful draft, IMO.

[78thealltimegreat]

28 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If you struggle to get value with your 1st & 2nd round picks, maybe go the Diggs route and trade the pick for proven young talent. 

I’d be open to it we need to keep adding to what Josh has I don’t want his prime years wasted because his GM just expects him to make anyone a pro bowl level receiver 

[BuffBillsForLife]

Brown is the only one who looks like he can be a long-term starter if he can keep up his play from the latter part of the season.  Groot looked good early but fell off the face of the earth after the regular season chiefs game.  The others might as well not exist, or can actively hurt the team like Stevenson running into his own blockers.

 

Now, if a good team can find a potentinal long-term starter at a position of need (OL) in the draft that's pretty good.  But Beane seems like he really needs to change how he evaluates D-linemen in the draft because the investment has been absolutely immense but an ancient Jerry Hughes is still our best D-lineman.  And to think, Hughes used to be our worst D-lineman when Schwartz was DC.

[Beast]

Rookies aren't going to get a whole

lot of time to shine on a roster like the Bills have.

[Brand J]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yes, very few impact plays, as long as you are willing to ignore all the impact plays that don't happen to fit into your categories. Doing which would be ridiculous.

 

That makes a bit more sense if you say "splash plays" instead. It's true he didn't make a ton of the spectacular plays. This is a team defense

 

Impact plays should include plays where he stops a guy short of the first down. Plays where a QB comes off his first read to his second, sees Tremaine nearby, thinks about it but goes to his third and the rush can get there and cause a sack, an INT from pressure or an important incompletion. People don't want to treat those as impact plays, but they absolutely are. The Bills D is a team defense. 

 

When you look at the passing charts for opposing QBs on nextgenstats what you see is that over the middle there are very few passes thrown between the five and about the 18. And that's a pretty common area to target against most defenses. That's the Tremaine effect, or part of it.

 

He doesn't get a lot of INTs because QBs don't like to throw near him. He doesn't get a lot of sacks because he doesn't rush a whole lot. I'd like to see him do more swiping at the ball, but Bills tacklers don't seem to be coached to do that except from behind and if you're not the first guy in the play. Tremaine generally wraps up, which is good but won't get you a lot of fumbles caused. Does he need to improve? Sure. Would I like to see him get more of those? Yeah, who wouldn't. But he still does a good job of doing what they want him to do.

 

And while I have to go to sleep now, so I can't track down exactly what Beane said, I think, "essentially said he 'does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up," is a distortion. Yeah, he said that. It wasn't all he said, and it wasn't essentially what he said. If I have time tomorrow, I'll look up the exact words. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll see tomorrow. But when they say that they're usually saying it in the context of pointing out that Tremaine does more than many people understand and that he's got a tough and extremely crucial job to do even before the snap and that that's always worth pointing out since so many don't want to talk about it as it's pretty Inside Football stuff and kind of boring to some.

Impact plays/splash plays, call it what you want, it’s semantics and points to the same issue - Tremaine doesn’t make many of them. “Ignoring all the impact plays that don’t happen” is quite possibly the most baseless argument I’ve ever heard one use to defend a player. It’s an argument built on supposition and assumption. We might as well say, “Mario Addison makes impact plays when he rushes and forces the QB off his spot - even if he misses the sack - because it prevented the QB from seeing a player running free in the secondary.” That’s your argument.

I don’t judge Tremaine or the rest of the defense by what they do against teams like the Jets, Texans, and Panthers. How does he and everyone else fare when they face a competent offense?
 

“Tremaine doesn’t get sacks because he’s not asked to rush the passer” (actually he does rush the passer, but sucks at it), “Tremaine doesn’t get interceptions because QBs don’t like throwing at him” (truth is he lacks ball skills, awareness, and has suspect hands). What else? Oh, “Tremaine doesn’t force fumbles because Bills defenders aren’t coached to go after the ball” (it’s preached ad nauseam to go after the football, I’ve heard defenders say this time and time again and even brought in Peanut Tillman to teach the technique).
The sad thing is you can’t even recognize the amount of excuses you’re making for the player because you’re convinced he’s something more than he is. 
If you watch the Beane presser, you’ll also see he describes Tremaine as “getting better”  playing with strength, getting off of blocks, and developing the alpha male mentality leaders need. You’ll also see it’s quite obvious from Beane’s body language and the way he speaks about Tremaine, he’s not completely sold on the player and like all of us, wants to see his game raise a level before talks of a contract extension. 
I half think you’re just trolling with your excuses.

This was in an article before the Patriots matchup with the Bills on MNF:

Quote

According to Pro Football Focus, Edmunds ranks among the league’s worst coverage linebackers. He’s allowed catches on 32 of 37 targets for 337 yards and two touchdowns. That’s 10.5 yards per reception, good enough for a first down on most snaps

Opponents have targeted Edmunds more often as the season has wore on. Don’t expect the Patriots to become an exception Monday.

But didn’t you just say QBs are scared to throw in his direction?

Edited February 5, 2022 by JayBaller10

[FLFan]

9 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

For some reason, that's how these online sports forums are.

 

They are predominantly made up of kool aid drinkers incapable of critical objective analysis.

 

Here is the irony---those who defend Edmunds now (for example) will make jokes about him the moment we move on from him and he is on some other team.

 

It never fails! 

 

😯

What never fails is that there is always some arrogant type who proclaims their opinions “critical objective analysis” while denigrating others who disagree as “koolaid drinkers”.  

Edited February 6, 2022 by FLFan

[Zerovoltz]

3 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Spencer Brown was the steal of the draft. (Ya hear me, @Zerovoltz?) And while I haven't been a real fan of Bobby Johnson, I do think he (and Daboll) did a great job of developing him, and Doyle (and Boettger, for that matter).

 

...was he a third round pick?  Im not saying he isn't a good pick....getting anyone that starts in round 3 is always good..but steal of the draft?

[Brand J]

I’d say Trey Smith was the steal of the draft. A late 1st, early 2nd round talent that dropped to the 6th because of health concerns. Knowing we needed interior help, I’m still kinda upset Beane didn’t gamble on him in the 5th or 6th round, instead we picked players who are no longer with the team.

[JohnNord]

8 hours ago, BillsFan619 said:

Here’s the link. Thoughts?
 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bills-2021-rookie-class-does-161553746.html

 

I thought Groot was showing promise after his INT of Mahomes in KC but he seemed to peter out after that.

 

Spencer Brown was the best of the 2021 Bills rookie class. He could have a great 2nd year.

It’s hard to grade this draft because just about all of the picks were not expected to contribute.  Rosseau and Brown surprisingly were good enough to earn time and both had their ups and downs.  Boogie Basham had a reputation out of college as more of a pro ready player, so I think you can consider his rookie year someone what of a disappointment but again - small sample size.  
 

Next year will tell us a lot more.  All three of these players should get a ton of playing time along with Tommy Doyle.  This will tell us how good the draft is

[Zerovoltz]

7 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I’d say Trey Smith was the steal of the draft. A late 1st, early 2nd round talent that dropped to the 6th because of health concerns. Knowing we needed interior help, I’m still kinda upset Beane didn’t gamble on him in the 5th or 6th round, instead we picked players who are no longer with the team.

If KC didn't land him....I'd be upset they didn't gamble on him in the 4th/5th myself....I'm kind of upset they waited anyhow...if you thought he was that guy...you spend a 4th or 5th and make sure you get him.  KC lucky he wasn't taken before they picked in round 6.  Only thing I can say about it for ALL teams...is that covid prevented eveyrone from doing up close medical on these guys pre draft.  

 

In any other year, he would have gone in the top 45 picks most likely.

[RyanC883]

terrible top 2 picks.  No impact.  Bean has been abysmal in the top 2 rounds the past 2 drafts.  That needs to change. 

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If you struggle to get value with your 1st & 2nd round picks, maybe go the Diggs route and trade the pick for proven young talent. 

 

this is where I am.  Trade for impact front 7 player.  The first 2 picks last year are beyond horrible given that we are in a win now mode and passed on several instant contributors.  

[JGMcD2]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

terrible top 2 picks.  No impact.  Bean has been abysmal in the top 2 rounds the past 2 drafts.  That needs to change. 

Yeah that Diggs trade was a real bust… 

 

🤡 

[JaCrispy]

4 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

terrible top 2 picks.  No impact.  Bean has been abysmal in the top 2 rounds the past 2 drafts.  That needs to change. 

Agreed...other than Allen and Diggs, Beane is certainly not getting value the first two rounds...Would rather trade those picks for proven vets if Beane can’t come through in the draft...

 

I’d give the 2021 draft class a C- thus far...

Edited February 6, 2022 by JaCrispy

[BillsfaninChicago]

OMGOSH this is disastrous! Yahoo is never wrong especially when it comes to subjective matters. 😢  Maybe we can get Buddy Nix to come back.

[Nitro]

Beane is being criticized about drafting.   He gets starters and back ups in his drafts.  They do contribute and play rolls.  In a nut shell here are the drafts in the McD/Beane era which produce starters and role players. 

 

2017

Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano

2018

Josh Allen, Tremaine Edmonds, Harrison Phillips, Taron Johnson, Siran Neal 

2019

Ed Oliver, Devin Singletary, Dawson Knox, Cody Ford and Tommy Sweeney

2020

AJ Epenesa, Zack Moss, Gabe Davis, Tyler Bass and Dane Jackson

2021

Gregory Rousseau, Carlos, Basham, Spencer Brown, Tommy Doyle and Damar Hamlin.

 

Pretty good track record.  Hard for the last draft class to unseat a starter on a loaded roster aiming to play in the Super Bowl.   

[billybrew1]

I for one, think t is very debatable how well Beane drafted.....

 

Not saying it was bad, it is a complicated question where you have to look at every team's  draft each year....

 

Sure, he got Allen the current NFL MVP but many of the other picks are debatable and the Bills currently have only three blue chippers..l. He used to trade up un-necessarily as well, imho..... aside from the Allen pick of course....He had players graded too high...I think if you're right a trade up is perhaps worth it. To get the guy you need but almost all his trade-ups seemed unnecessary and not worth it.

Beane build much of the offense with free-agents, kudos there.especially with the trade.

They drafted much of the defense. Only Hyde and Poyer are currently FAs signed and they are the best part of our D aside from Tre. How did we draft so well in 2017? I still say it was Beane pulling all the strings maybe he's best when he has no time to think about it? IDK?

[Dopey]

14 hours ago, NewEra said:

 

You continue to say “small group”….. the group is much bigger than you portray.  
 

The  “small group” you are talking about thinks he terrible.  
 

the much bigger group that you never mention thinks that he’s not worthy of getting paid what he will be paid next year and aren’t sure if paying him that money is a smart decision.

 

you act as if everyone’s thoughts on Edmunds reside in either black and white,  while the reality is, most reside in the grey area.  
 

I certainly don’t think the guy is trash.  I just don’t think he’s as good as some, you included, say that he is.  His physical being is and always will be his best attribute.  That’s not usually the case for the great MLBs. 

The group is small, it's just loud. Same group that blamed Edmunds for that long run vs NE in our loss to them(Milano and Hyde). That would be example #1 on blaming him for every long run. No one complained about Milano vs the Chiefs, but he didn't have a good game and was "Mossed" for the game winning TD. 

[Dopey]

How many rookies should make a huge impact on a team that went to the AFCE championship game the year before and had SB aspirations this year?

Answer: not many. They're rookies on a really good, really deep team. Not fair to judge a draft when that's not taken into account. Except for people that just want something to complain about. A lot of that going on here. 

[GunnerBill]

18 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

 

I am optimistic about Groot and Brown for the future. For the others I'm not so sure

 

That is where I am at basically. I think Boogie can be a depth piece but not necessarily an impact player.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

When asked in his season ending presser about Edmunds, Beane essentially said he “does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up.” That was his biggest praise. He didn’t sound at all like a GM who was ready to sign Edmunds to a long term extension.

 

 

Yup, thought so. Your comment on what Beane said about Edmunds was an excellent example of confirmation bias. This above is what you thought, so it's what you heard. Thing is, it's not what he said. Not even slightly close, actually.

 

You claimed, "When asked in his season ending presser about Edmunds, Beane essentially said he 'does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up.” That was his biggest praise. He didn’t sound at all like a GM who was ready to sign Edmunds to a long term extension."

 

Yeah, that is one absolutely terrible summary or paraphrase or whatever you want to call it. That was very very far from "essentially" what Beane said. And it was also far from his biggest praise. He certainly did say some things about that, but I took down every word, took out the you knows and the agains and the uhs and ahs. I put every word outside of those. Please feel free to check.

 

Having done that, I thought I'd put the stuff you referred to in black and the stuff that somehow slipped past you in red. It's not all great. He threw in some caveats. But in no way can it be said with any degree of reason that he "essentially said 'he does a great job with the play calls and getting everyone lined up.'"

 

Beane said, "I thought Tremaine did a really good job again. His leadership, you know Tremaine is a quieter guy if you compare him to Josh, they're both the quarterbacks of their side of the ball. Tremaine is naturally quieter, more lead-by-example, but when he speaks, guys do listen. And I think year by year he's more comfortable being that guy, being that alpha even though maybe it's not innately natural to him. You know, Tremaine has done some really good things. I thought his physicality improved this year. You know, taking on, getting off blocks, I thought all that improved. There's still things that he wants to get better at. And we think going into next year, he's a young player still, but going into year 5 we think he'll be even better."

 

Then he talked for a while about Oliver and continued about Edmunds, "I think as a young player, some things come faster to others. I think Tremaine has definitely improved his awareness, his instinct of what to see. Like anything, Sal, sometimes you face an offense that does a lot more, I was talking about Isaiah McKenzie or, some offenses you face ... Listen, I got two indicators, and then go. But you've got to remember too, he's also the quarterback of the defense, he's calling, he's checking, he's doing a lot pre-snap to get us lined up. It's a hard job, in the sense of, it's like Josh has gotta make sure of all these things, and he's got to go execute it. I appreciate where you're coming from. I think Tremaine does a lot with the whole operation that doesn't get noticed because maybe he didn't quite get through the B gap in time to make the play or he was late. He's a heck of an athlete. He's improved his pass concepts. Again, this was all new for him, coming to middle linebacker. And I think if you look at where he's at every year I think he has improved a little bit each year to where he's at. He'll be the first to tell you that there's plays that he wants back, that, 'Man, I should've seen that quicker or I should've reacted quicker, I should've been more physical, or I should've got my eyes around to find the receiver in whatever pass play it was,' but he helps us in a lot of ways that sometimes don't necessarily get picked up by Joe Fan or whoever."

 

He talked about physical improvement, mental improvement, how his job is tougher than most think, how he's improving each year, leadership, and more. So that summary was totally unfair.

 

Asked about a contract extension for him this off-season, Beane said, "We'll look at all that. The cap is what I ... the first thing I've got to do is make sure we can operate and what moves are going to have to be made, whether it's a pay cut, we did that with some guys, cap releases, so I'll kinda do all that first but, you know, love Tremaine and I'm sure at the right time we would consider anything, but I really don't usually do that at this time of year. We'll just kind of see how it goes, see what holes we fill and probably table that for now."

 

You left out the "love Tremaine" thing somehow. Beane doesn't say that a lot. Did seem to say they wouldn't make a new contract this time of year. But in no way he say anything that could be taken as saying they're not very interested in signing him to a long-term contract. Just that it did indeed sound like this may not be the right time.

 

This wasn't boiler-plate praise. It wasn't "he gives 110%," or "the linebacker group shows up and works hard every day." It was extensive, specific and way beyond what you suggested.

 

Again, great example of confirmation bias.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

terrible top 2 picks.  No impact.  Bean has been abysmal in the top 2 rounds the past 2 drafts.  That needs to change. 

 

 

The top two rounds the past 2 drafts? First, he traded away the 1st round pick that year for Diggs. No first rounder makes it hard for a draft to show immediate big returns, and Diggs of course has been terrific.

 

Basically you're talking about three players (outside of Diggs), two of whom are rookies, and all of whom are way too young to fully judge.

 

2020 2nd: Epenesa  Not enough so far, but he's flashed and it's too early to know

2021 1st: Rousseau. For how much he's played, and the fact that he's a rookie, looks good so far.

2021 2nd: Basham. Hard to even comment, really. Showed flashes, but not enough, but the numbers game kept him off the field. No way to begin to judge, really.

 

Only other top two round picks for Beane have been:

 

Oliver: looks terrific.

Ford: looks awful

Allen: looks insanely good

Edmunds: looks good

 

Overall that's good.

[CoudyBills]

20 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

Aside from the fact that it is way too early to really tell the impact of this rookie class, this was the headline of the article:

 

Bills 2021 rookie class does not fare well in ESPN ranking

 

And they ranked them 27th.  Considering the Bills picked 30th, wouldn't that make them slightly above average?  That article is saying that the Bills outperformed their draft position, but then also says they did not fare well.  😕

Pro tip, piss on espn.

[TFBillsfan]

Slightly different twist but the Bills picks in the 2nd round since 2014 have struggled to make any impact which is concerning as typically there is still plenty of talent on the board. You have to get to 2013 before an impactful player. Hope Beane changes this trend this year.
 

2021:  Basham

2020:  AJE

2019:  Ford

2018:  No pick

2017:  Zay Jones

2016:  Reggie Ragland

2015:  Ronald Darby

2014:  Cyrus Kouandjio

2013:  Robert Woods

[Buffalosouth]

Groot is still in braces. Every see a puppy with giant paws? Let the kid grow into his role. He even took a year off from playing and still made the nfl. Wait until that rookie wall narrative becomes the sophomore slump and he gets chased put of here and finishes developing and people want a player like him. 

 

I wonder why Basham was inactive. Was it numbers, development, or gameplan? Or a combination of the 3. 

 

The picks in the draft will 

be ordered in importance by DB, WR, and then offensive and defensive line. Do they really invest early round picks at the the same position again this year?

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

terrible top 2 picks.  No impact.  Bean has been abysmal in the top 2 rounds the past 2 drafts.  That needs to change. 

Last year’s top pick was … Stefon Diggs, who ended up being the leading receiver in the entire league.

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Dopey said:

The group is small, it's just loud. Same group that blamed Edmunds for that long run vs NE in our loss to them(Milano and Hyde). That would be example #1 on blaming him for every long run. No one complained about Milano vs the Chiefs, but he didn't have a good game and was "Mossed" for the game winning TD. 

And then there’s a much bigger group that thinks he is a pretty good player but won’t be worth the money that we’ll pay him.  You

CAN’T ignore his lack of big plays. 

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

If KC didn't land him....I'd be upset they didn't gamble on him in the 4th/5th myself....I'm kind of upset they waited anyhow...if you thought he was that guy...you spend a 4th or 5th and make sure you get him.  KC lucky he wasn't taken before they picked in round 6.  Only thing I can say about it for ALL teams...is that covid prevented eveyrone from doing up close medical on these guys pre draft.  

 

In any other year, he would have gone in the top 45 picks most likely.

 

I had a 3rd round grade on him without taking account for the injury. He is a bit scheme specific. You couldn't have drafted him for one of the Shanahan schemes that wants to get their olinemen moving horizontally a lot of the time. Kansas City are more multiple have used more gap concepts, some pin and pull and trap runs. The fact that Mahomes does a lot of deep drop stuff helps him in pass pro too. Teams that do a lot of under centre and quick game might not be ideal for him. He was an excellent pick for Kansas City and no doubt he dropped for health reasons but I do think when you consider how many of those Shanahan offense style teams there are in the NFL at the moment that had some impact in limiting his market too.