Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[Gugny]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Where did the Giants admit to it? 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/01/giants-brian-flores-was-a-serious-candidate-we-hired-the-coach-we-felt-was-most-qualified/

Flores contends that the interview was a sham, but the Giants responded by saying that Flores was a serious candidate for the job.

“We are pleased and confident with the process that resulted in the hiring of Brian Daboll,” the statement said. “We interviewed an impressive and diverse group of candidates. The fact of the matter is, Brian Flores was in the conversation to be our head coach until the eleventh hour. Ultimately, we hired the individual we felt was most qualified to be our next head coach.”

Bills defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier, Giants defensive coordinator Patrick Graham, Cowboys defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, and Bengals defensive coordinator Lou Anarumo also interviewed for the Giants before Daboll was hired. Frazier and Graham are Black and the NFL’s Rooney Rule requires teams to interview at least two external minority candidates for head coaching openings but Flores’ suit contends that they were not under real consideration for the job.

 

Unless we know exactly what Belichick heard and from whom, we really don't know that the Giants, in fact, made a hiring decision prior to Flores interview.

And if they did, they very likely won't admit to it.

 

On Pro Football Talk, Mike Florio claims that most owners (75%) already know who they want to hire next before they make their decision to fire the current coach.  That would make most interview processes an "equal opportunity sham": both the white and the minority candidates are working with a stacked deck where the winning card is already known.  I think this is still true in some cases (Raiders hiring Gruden; Jacksonville hiring Urban), but in others, the process is more open and a legitimate open search is conducted.  (I don't think the Pegulas knew they wanted to hire McDermott when they fired Ryan, for example).

 

My guess would be that Mara legitimately was very interested in hiring Flores, and had his FO people talking to Flores (for example, the Jan 11 text conversation where McDonnell supposedly said that Daboll might leave Buffalo for a lateral move).    But once they hired Joe Schoen as GM, he  may have stipulated for a strong voice or maybe the deciding voice in hiring the HC, and he had a different set of names that started with Brian Daboll, and included Leslie Frazier.  TBH, I think Schoen wanted an offensive guy, and Daboll was his top choice - and actually, the only offensive coach they interviewed.

 

 

 

I said what I said based on this ...

 

 

Whether it's true or not, I don't know.  I'm just saying that if it is true that someone from the Giants shared that the decision was made prior to having dinner with Flores, then that was stupid.  I don't care if it breaks the rules or not, or if it's a legitimate cause for suing ... I just think it's dumb.

[colin]

16 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Congress is going to get involved if this isn't retracted quickly - you can't have an owner of an antitrust-exempt business, on which betting is now legal, paying coaches to lose.  This is EPIC.

 

bro, i didn't even consider that angle.  ya, this could blow up a bunch of things, no?

 

if people cared about vices like the used to (politically speaking) then something like this would potentially have an impact on all the online gambling stuff, possibly making some states blow out of it and such.

 

crazy

[aristocrat]

https://www.wigdorlaw.com/team/
 

 

they have one non white lawyer and he is Indian.  Someone should file a claim against them. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Ayjent said:

I’m not saying they don’t know what they’re doing.  I’m saying they are self-interested in the best result for themselves not their client, which is already very obvious.

A wealthy law firms partners act in self interest??  Whaaaat? Look at Wigdors team of 19 on their Web site. There doesn’t Appear to be any sort of Rooney rule equity convictions affecting their hiring practices.  
 

It’s all a money grab by everyone involved. It’s simply the way it is…

[colin]

15 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

(Warning - speculation ahead) If true, it is entirely likely that McD leaned on Daboll around the Bucs game to change the play calls to a more balanced approach. If Daboll didnt like that, then I say him leaving is for the betterment of the O going forward. Clearly the O was more balanced and dangerous towards the end of the season and into the playoffs. Something changed and it must be McD forcing Daboll to curb his natural proclivities. 

 

 

 

 

a good hc leans on his guys, even if it makes them angry, if it's for the betterment of the team.  if this is the read through (and i think it is) this is a good thing for our HC IMO.

[zow2]

The Rooney rule to me always has been about "checking a box".  But I also believe the cream rises to the top and the best, smartest and most talented people ultimately land in charge as head coaches, GM's, etc.

 

Flores was already hired as a head coach, did ok, but was fired.  It didn't make sense to me, i thought he did a decent job in Miami but it sounded like there was personality issues with him and that organization.  I'm not so sure his situation is about skin color,,,, and not moreso about HIM.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 minutes ago, colin said:

 

 

a good hc leans on his guys...

A great  HC leans elsewhere.  If you don't believe it, just ask him.

[colin]

1 minute ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

A great  HC leans elsewhere.  If you don't believe it, just ask him.

 

at some point you just have to admire the hubris.

 

gives no fudges, breaks rules and doesn't care, happy to have serial killers on his team and initiate ex judicial prison on players he wants to pressure, spreads love wherever he goes.

 

Urban might just be NFL coach of the year!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 minute ago, colin said:

 

at some point you just have to admire the hubris.

 

gives no fudges, breaks rules and doesn't care, happy to have serial killers on his team and initiate ex judicial prison on players he wants to pressure, spreads love wherever he goes.

 

Urban might just be NFL coach of the year!

Agreed, and again, just ask him! 😁

[Lost]

16 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Congress is going to get involved if this isn't retracted quickly - you can't have an owner of an antitrust-exempt business, on which betting is now legal, paying coaches to lose.  This is EPIC.

 

Congress see's nothing wrong with its members buying and selling stocks while in office.   Our government is just as corrupt as certain NFL owners.  Don't hold your breath

Edited February 2, 2022 by Lost

[YoloinOhio]

Flores is going to be on Get Up at 9:30. Greeny will get to the bottom of this!

[Ayjent]

43 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Agree I don’t know exactly what Flores’ motivations are either or if he went along with this strategy clear-headed. I just don’t see any evidence that Wigdor is purposely fireballing his career to maximize exposure to gain clout. They may honestly believe it’s the best strategy against entities like the NFL. 

I'll just say this.  Clients are sometimes convinced of a terrible strategy when they are looking for blood and their vision is clouded, only later to realize that they wished someone had played out the scenarios of how things could go from bad to worse big picture.   This happens all the time in family and labor law - emotions drive the desire to get back at someone or some organization that has hurt you.   It's not to say that some firms like Wigdor aren't effective in getting a favorable settlement and winning in the eyes of a segment of the population sympathetic to their client's cause.  However, will Flores regret approving this legal strategy when he desires to coach at a certain level in the NFL or college and is met with no interest?  No one knows for sure whether that will be the case, but I think it is pretty safe to pretty safe to say that it will close a lot of doors for him that might have otherwise been open. 

 

I also wonder if there was any exploration of discussions with the NFL about many of the issues he experienced and whether the NFL was receptive to those conversations or completely uninterested.  So much that is not really known, but from an initial view this current strategy looks like a complete scorched Earth approach that would be a last resort if all other avenues failed. I don't think a couple of weeks is really enough time to explore more reasonable options that could preserve his opportunities and address issues with the hiring process in the NFL, which regardless of racial considerations needs to be looked at (e.g., the NFL really needs to look at interview and hiring windows for all candidates following the conclusion of the season).  So that's where I'm coming from, but maybe Flores wanted all of this and that is why he hired them.  If that's the case, that's too bad, because I think he is a really good coach, but ultimately it's not necessarily a good look for him being a reasonable person.

[Golden*Wheels]

Time to dust of the eatin' popcorn emoji. Wow. This is gonna be a hot mess.

[YoloinOhio]

I always say, Find something you’re good at and get paid for it. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I always say, Find something you’re good at and get paid for it. 

 

 

Lol now all losing coaches are about to say this.

[PetermansRedemption]

This situation shows the downside of the Rooney rule. If it didn’t exist, the Giants would have announced Daboll as their head coach and Flores wouldn’t even have been scheduled. If I’m a minority I’m not sure if I would prefer the Rooney rule remain, or be scrapped. 

[aceman_16]

The Giants didn't NEED to interview Flores for the Rooney Rule....they interviewed Frasier. A big nothing burger here on that front.

[PetermansRedemption]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I always say, Find something you’re good at and get paid for it. 

 

 

If true, Hue must be a very wealthy man. 

1 minute ago, aceman_16 said:

The Giants didn't NEED to interview Flores for the Rooney Rule....they interviewed Frasier. A big nothing burger here on that front.

HC openings need two minority candidates interviewed. 

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Lol now all losing coaches are about to say this.

Ironically we just celebrated Hue Jackson Day here in Ohio (1-31)

[Kellyhero68]

17 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I'm assuming he's done in the NFL regardless with this. 

USFL is going to be great alternative. I hope it does well. Competition is good for the fans.

[YoloinOhio]

University of Michigan HC Brian Flores

[Coach Tuesday]

25 minutes ago, Ayjent said:

I'll just say this.  Clients are sometimes convinced of a terrible strategy when they are looking for blood and their vision is clouded, only later to realize that they wished someone had played out the scenarios of how things could go from bad to worse big picture.   This happens all the time in family and labor law - emotions drive the desire to get back at someone or some organization that has hurt you.   It's not to say that some firms like Wigdor aren't effective in getting a favorable settlement and winning in the eyes of a segment of the population sympathetic to their client's cause.  However, will Flores regret approving this legal strategy when he desires to coach at a certain level in the NFL or college and is met with no interest?  No one knows for sure whether that will be the case, but I think it is pretty safe to pretty safe to say that it will close a lot of doors for him that might have otherwise been open. 

 

I also wonder if there was any exploration of discussions with the NFL about many of the issues he experienced and whether the NFL was receptive to those conversations or completely uninterested.  So much that is not really known, but from an initial view this current strategy looks like a complete scorched Earth approach that would be a last resort if all other avenues failed. I don't think a couple of weeks is really enough time to explore more reasonable options that could preserve his opportunities and address issues with the hiring process in the NFL, which regardless of racial considerations needs to be looked at (e.g., the NFL really needs to look at interview and hiring windows for all candidates following the conclusion of the season).  So that's where I'm coming from, but maybe Flores wanted all of this and that is why he hired them.  If that's the case, that's too bad, because I think he is a really good coach, but ultimately it's not necessarily a good look for him being a reasonable person.

 

I would advise anyone who is considering hiring Wigdor to have separate counsel at hand to review the strategy in real time.  I don't want to belabor it but I would never trust that firm to put its clients' interests first.  Same with Lisa Bloom for that matter.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, colin said:

 

bro, i didn't even consider that angle.  ya, this could blow up a bunch of things, no?

 

if people cared about vices like the used to (politically speaking) then something like this would potentially have an impact on all the online gambling stuff, possibly making some states blow out of it and such.

 

crazy

Good Lord, you can't have an owner bribing a HC to lose and at the same time a league moving into gambling. I always knew the NFL was corrupt but this is hilarious. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

15 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

If true, Hue must be a very wealthy man. 

HC openings need two minority candidates interviewed. 

Would that mean the Browns paid extra to bypass Josh Allen for Baker Mayfield? 

[stuvian]

why isn't Flores suing the Saints as well? He interviewed with them too

[Billzgobowlin]

22 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

If true, Hue must be a very wealthy man. 

HC openings need two minority candidates interviewed. 

They also interviewed their own DC Graham.  That would be three that I know of

I do think this type of response will make him someone owners want to stay away from.  I am more curious why they got rid of him in Miami than why they didn't hire him in New York.  He is a good coach but a lawsuit would make me think owners wouldn't want to interview him in the future.  

[Bob in STL]

This is all a plot by Belichick to disrupt the Bills and Dolphins off season and to bring down the McDermott Culture.  (sinister laugh) 

[The Wiz]

9 minutes ago, stuvian said:

why isn't Flores suing the Saints as well? He interviewed with them too

They havent hired a coach yet.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

If true, Hue must be a very wealthy man. 

HC openings need two minority candidates interviewed. 

 

Two minority candidates from outside the organization, one of which must be in person.

 

2 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

They also interviewed their own DC Graham.  That would be three that I know of

 

See above - need 2 outside the organization, and one in- person interview.

 

Katharine Fitzgerald wrote a pretty good article about it:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-oddly-part-of-brian-flores-lawsuit-against-nfl-giants-heres-how/article_8dce85bc-83ae-11ec-a431-2300176271c0.html

 

The thing I don't understand, is that she says the Bellycheat texts were from 3 days prior to Flores scheduled interview on Thurs.

This tracker has dates and stuff

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2022-nfl-head-coach-tracker-latest-news-rumors/

Daboll was interviewed in person (2nd interview) on Tuesday January 25.

Flores was interviewed in person (2nd interview) on Thursday January 27th.

So if she's correct about the texts, Belichick did his "wrong text" fest on Monday, before Daboll interviewed for the 2nd time.

 

[Billzgobowlin]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Two minority candidates from outside the organization, one of which must be in person.

 

 

See above - need 2 outside the organization, and one in- person interview.

 

Katharine Fitzgerald wrote a pretty good article about it:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-oddly-part-of-brian-flores-lawsuit-against-nfl-giants-heres-how/article_8dce85bc-83ae-11ec-a431-2300176271c0.html

 

The thing I don't understand, is that she says the Bellycheat texts were from 3 days prior to Flores scheduled interview on Thurs.

This tracker has dates and stuff

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2022-nfl-head-coach-tracker-latest-news-rumors/

Daboll was interviewed in person (2nd interview) on Tuesday January 25.

Flores was interviewed in person (2nd interview) on Thursday January 27th.

So if she's correct about the texts, Belichick did his "wrong text" fest on Monday, before Daboll interviewed for the 2nd time.

 

Fair enough but if that's what you have to do to hire a coach that seems ridiculous

[RoyBatty is alive]

17 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Look up why Sterling lost his team.  Then get right back to us.

Smug response, I dont need to look it up, I know why he left, he was forced out.  Racist comments.  Flores took over a disaster in Miami and did an admirable job and ended on what, an 8 game winning streak and fired leaving one black NFL HC.  What is your point?  Ross is also accused or tampering with other team players and paying a HC to lose games, imagine the impact of that on the NFL and their now association de facto with gambling.

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Two minority candidates from outside the organization, one of which must be in person.

 

 

See above - need 2 outside the organization, and one in- person interview.

 

Katharine Fitzgerald wrote a pretty good article about it:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-oddly-part-of-brian-flores-lawsuit-against-nfl-giants-heres-how/article_8dce85bc-83ae-11ec-a431-2300176271c0.html

 

The thing I don't understand, is that she says the Bellycheat texts were from 3 days prior to Flores scheduled interview on Thurs.

This tracker has dates and stuff

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2022-nfl-head-coach-tracker-latest-news-rumors/

Daboll was interviewed in person (2nd interview) on Tuesday January 25.

Flores was interviewed in person (2nd interview) on Thursday January 27th.

So if she's correct about the texts, Belichick did his "wrong text" fest on Monday, before Daboll interviewed for the 2nd time.

 

From what I heard on WGR a few minutes ago they also held interviews prior to Schoen being hired.

 

Here's what I found on all the interviews.

 

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/timeline-new-york-giants-head-coach-interviews-rooney-rule-requirement/591390

 

an. 11 (Tue) – Giants fire Joe Judge as head coach
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen hired as GM
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills OC Brian Daboll interviews with Schoen and Giants’ co-owners via teleconference
Jan. 22 (Sat) – Bills DC Leslie Frazier interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Bengals DC Lou Anarumo interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Daboll and Frazier’s Buffalo Bills eliminated from playoffs
Jan. 24 (Mon) – Cowboys DC Dan Quinn interviews in-person. Giants’ first in-person interview for the job.
Jan. 25 (Tue) – Brian Daboll receives second interview. Interview occurs in-person

*Brian Flores receives text messages from Bill Belichick congratulating him on becoming next Giants coach even though Flores has not had his interview yet. Belichick’s text messages were intended for Daboll.*

Jan. 26 (Wed) – Giants DC Patrick Graham interviews. Does not satisfy Rooney Rule since in-house candidate
Jan. 26 (Wed) – Ex-Dolphins HC Brian Flores has dinner with Schoen
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Brian Flores interviews (satisfies Rooney Rule because it is in-person with someone outside organization)
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Dan Quinn announces he is remaining as Cowboys DC
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Leslie Frazier gets second interview, this time in-person, also satisfying Rooney Rule
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Daboll hired as head coach

Edited February 2, 2022 by The Wiz

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I would think Flores would have to be stupid to not know this would be a he said, he said situation without Proof re the Ross Payments..

 

This is going to get real interesting...Lot's of Implications if Flores can prove this. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, stuvian said:

the NFL will circle the wagons and Flores will get Kaepernicked. No one tells billionaires what to do. 

The Rooney rule all but assures that teams will interview candidates they don't intend to hire. 

Flores would have been a very bankable HC candidate for the remaining openings. Do you think Arians will stick around now that Brady is gone? 

 

Agree.  And it sounds as though Flores is aware of this.

 

And, as posted elsewhere, I think the real problem is that prior experience (even if it comes with a terrible track record) and cronyism/nepotism/"comfort level" hiring is pervaisive.

 

Simply requiring that minorities be interviewed is too little, too late to address that.

 

6 hours ago, stuvian said:

This lawsuit just reinforces his reputation as a hot head who can't work with people. Were the Broncos racist when they hired Vance Joseph?  

 

The Broncos weren't racist when they hired Vance Joseph, and the Texans weren't racist when they hired David Culley, but wouldn't you agree it was eyebrow-raising and unusual to pull the plug on those guys after only one season?  It's a damned short leash, especially for Culley who did better than expected with a depleted Texans roster.

 

Other incompetent coaches have gotten 2-3 years to show what they can (or can't) do, and even 2 years was considered possibly unfair in the case of Wrex Ryan "coaches won't want to take the Pegulas job if they keep this up".

[Fan in Chicago]

8 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

From what I heard on WGR a few minutes ago they also held interviews prior to Schoen being hired.

 

Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills OC Brian Daboll interviews with Schoen and Giants’ co-owners via teleconference
Jan. 22 (Sat) – Bills DC Leslie Frazier interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Bengals DC Lou Anarumo interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Daboll and Frazier’s Buffalo Bills eliminated from playoffs

This timeline does not sit well with me. Coordinators should not be interviewing for new jobs in the days leading up to playoff games. I am aware that this is within the rules, but I dont like it. I dont want the coordinators distracted. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, PolishPrince said:

This is such a bad argument. Why does it have to be even ratios of race on white to black? I would argue most coaches did not play very long because they simply werent that good, but loved the game - so they transitioned to the coaching side early in their career instead of being banged up and battered for a decade or more on the field. Nothing wrong with this, just saying maybe a player is more "done" after getting beaten up so long.

 

What NFL head coaches were long time players? I can think of Reich and Vrabel, not like I have an extensive knowledge of all the coaches playing careers. Most coaches, Belicheck, Reid, Carroll, Arians, McDermott, Tomlin...even up and coming coordinators and coaches like Dorsey, Kellen Moore had short careers that did basically nothing after college. Look at the new young coaches, Shannahan, McVay, Bengals Zack whatever, Stefanski. They are young coaches because they pretty much went straight into coaching rather than pursue playing.

 

Maybe Byron Leftwhich gets his shot soon? But the argument I see "well players are this, so coaches should be equal ratio or close" is kind of flat imo. Should a woman never get a head coach or coordinator job? No females currently are in the NFL.

 

The part maybe we should ask is why collegiate black players who arent expected to make it at NFL level dont seem to turn to coaching early as much? 

 

While typing this I started looking up recent black head coaches, I know Leslie Frazier played. David Culley went into coaching right out of college. Marvin Lewis same thing... BRIAN FLORES (injury prevented him from NFL so he went to coaching). Robert Saleh, Jim Caldwell, Hugh Jackson.

 

I don't know about anyone saying the ratio should be equal or close, but when there are 32 head coaches and only 1 is black, despite a fairly large number of long-time black assistant coaches, it does make most people go "hmmmmm".

 

Then there are two recent cases where a black coach who was hired seems to have been given a mightly short leash (Culley, Vance Joseph).

 

I thought based on the team's record and development, Flores did not deserve to be fired.  It sounds as though it was a case of "pissed in bosses wheaties", not coaching competence (but of course, that will get you fired from any job).

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

This part all amazes me.  So Ross was pissed at Flores for screwing up the tank - but (1) they still went 5-11, (2) they still were in a position to draft the QB Ross initially wanted (Tua), (3) they were also in position to draft Herbert, (4) the Dolphins' GM, who is Black, picked Tua over Herbert, and (5) IIRC the Dolphins were the only team in the league last year with a Black coach, GM, and QB.  Yet Flores is claiming that Ross held it all against him for over a year and ultimately fired him, because racism.

 

That part of the narrative makes no sense and tells me it was only included in an effort to destroy Ross/the NFL and to bring maximum attention and settlement leverage.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I would think Flores would have to be stupid to not know this would be a he said, he said situation without Proof re the Ross Payments..

 

This is going to get real interesting...Lot's of Implications if Flores can prove this. 

 

See above text from Marcel L-J asserting Flores has "corroborating evidence" and witnesses.

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

This timeline does not sit well with me. Coordinators should not be interviewing for new jobs in the days leading up to playoff games. I am aware that this is within the rules, but I dont like it. I dont want the coordinators distracted. 

I agree also but it's pretty much the only way for the OC/DC that are still in the playoffs to interview when other candidates are sitting at home taking calls from different teams.