Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Belichik ain’t congratulating Daboll unless he got the job.  That’s a pretty damning text in regards to a sham interview.  

That’s what people can’t seem to figure out… Flores doesn’t deserve to be bashed, I hope this brings REAL change.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

Winning in the division is also key. I know Flores bedeviled the Pats (I'll miss that) but he was awful against the Bills (I'll miss that too). Haven't looked up Dolphins v Jets

 

Flores won 5 out of 6 last 3 years.  So he owns 2 out of 3 teams in the division.  They gave us a decent fight in the 2nd meeting this year.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Because they picked him before they even gave Flores a chance

Actually according to Flores's suit...BB congratulationed Daboll's win before Flores had a SECOND interview. Means he alread would have had to have a 1st interview ..correct? Possible after the 1st interview the Giants weren't all too impressed and knew Daboll was the guy. Would mean he had a chance IMO

[Freddie's Dead]

Interesting response from the board.  Flores has a lot of guts to call out the hypocrisy of the Rooney Rule, but most here are like "He's done", "Going scorched earth", "Doesn't pass the smell test", etc.  Good for Brian Flores, I wish him all the best.  It's hard to fight the NFL, and even when you win, you lose because people want their football (see USFL v. NFL).  For Bills fans, this is good because Miami is clearly a dumpster fire, and follows after its owner, who looks like a real POS.  Miami is going to be a mess for years if they continue to be run by Stephen Ross.  So we've got that going for us, which is nice. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, harryS said:

 

What if your boss asked you to cheat or steal?

 

from the competitor , no problem, thats business. Flores was with Bellycheck he knows all about cheating, he just didn't want to lose games even though it would have benefited the team.

 

 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

from the competitor , no problem, thats business. Flores was with Bellycheck he knows all about cheating, he just didn't want to lose games even though it would have benefited the team.

 

 

Yeah because it's not like you'll suddenly get fired after 1 year of being a Coach like David Culley or anything with only that 1 year of being ***** terrible on your HC resume.

[QLBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, harryS said:

 

Yes, Flores is more qualified for head coach.  He's had decent success as a head coach relative to his team's talent level.  Daboll has no head coaching experience, and the coordinator skillset is different from the head coach skillset.  Additionally, even Daboll's coordinator resume is a mixed bag, as he's been fired a few times from offensive coordinator after producing lowly-ranked offenses before finally landing in Buffalo with Josh Allen.

 

To be clear, I do think Daboll is a good coordinator and I would've given him the head coaching job after 13 seconds happened to McDermott.

 

 

I agree on your McDermott point but will agree to respectfully disagree on Flores. I think his lack of people skills was exposed and he would have gained a great perspective as DC for a bit and then back to HC. Like JM getting the Raiders gig. A little more time to become a better leader the next time. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Actually according to Flores's suit...BB congratulationed Daboll's win before Flores had a SECOND interview. Means he alread would have had to have a 1st interview ..correct? Possible after the 1st interview the Giants weren't all too impressed and knew Daboll was the guy. Would mean he had a chance IMO

Still… and I don’t know how this operates normally… but is it normal to hire someone while they are still in the interviewing process? We know they interviewed Dabs and Frazier, they need 2 for RR I believe. Definitely smells like BS and glad Flores is sticking it to the NFL.

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Actually according to Flores's suit...BB congratulationed Daboll's win before Flores had a SECOND interview. Means he alread would have had to have a 1st interview ..correct? Possible after the 1st interview the Giants weren't all too impressed and knew Daboll was the guy. Would mean he had a chance IMO

So they set up a 2nd interview with a guy they weren’t impressed with after the first interview? Makes perfect sense.

[freddyjj]

28 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You finished 8-1 and missed the playoffs by a game.. and the season at 9-8.  Again I can’t think of 1 coach fired after 3 winning seasons.

Jerry Glanville Houston Oilers 1987-1989 went 28-19 and made playoffs each year. 

[SCBills]

22 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Belichik ain’t congratulating Daboll unless he got the job.  That’s a pretty damning text in regards to a sham interview.  

I mean, we all know it’s a sham.  
 

If Belichick said he’s leaving New England and wants to go to the Giants as HC.  We really thinking they’re interviewing people like Flores in good faith?  It’s all performative.. They wanted Daboll, from at least when Schoen was hired.  Guess they should’ve hidden it better?

 

 

15 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

That’s what people can’t seem to figure out… Flores doesn’t deserve to be bashed, I hope this brings REAL change.

What is that REAL change?

 

Forced minority hires?  I mean, what else can they do but mandate teams interview minority candidates.   Giants wanted Daboll, should they hire someone else because Daboll’s white?
 

If it makes you feel better, that happens quite a bit in corporate America. 
 

(Fwiw, I don’t think Flores should’ve been fired in the first place, but I can’t really get on board with all this outrage)

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by SCBills

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

 

It makes sense why the Giants wanted Daboll. They think they are getting the guy that developed Josh Allen (even though we all know a lot has gone into that). They want to see if Jones has anything, and if not, have a guy who can develop their next QB.

 

Flores botched Tua. Swapping Fitzpatrick and Tua in and out in 2020 was a mess, and people called it then.

If I am a team trying to solve the QB situation to complete, then it's Daboll all the way.

 

To Flores point, no one wants to be a token candidate and I understand his anger with the Giants in that regard.

 

The Miami and Denver stuff is pretty mind blowing if true.

The swipe at Buffalo (McDermott and Daboll not getting along) was petty and unnecessary.

 

There are a lot of staffs that need DCs and he is one of the best. Going nuclear isn't going to help.

I guess if all the above is true, it was just too much to handle.

How did Flores botch Tua any worse than McDermott botched Allen??? Allen could not have been in a worse situation his first two years. 

I agree he should have kept playing Fitz while they had a shot at the playoffs. Probably lost a fair amount of the locker room. But these guys are pros and everyone of them knows young QBs are going to struggle at times.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

I mean, we all know it’s a sham.  
 

If Belichick said he’s leaving New England and wants to go to the Giants as HC.  We really thinking they’re interviewing people like Flores in good faith?  It’s all performative.. They wanted Daboll, from at least when Schoen was hired.  Guess they should’ve hidden it better?

I think it means the Rooney Rule does more harm than good at this point.  I don’t really like Flores, but good for him for calling out the BS and going after these billionaire owners who think they can do whatever they want.  

[BillnutinHouston]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So if they had offered him the job beforehand but the Bills kept it secret, all good--no lawsuit?

 

Yes.   4D chess players are not known for their texting skills, so its best to keep them out of the know.

 

[realtruelove]

8 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

So they set up a 2nd interview with a guy they weren’t impressed with after the first interview? Makes perfect sense.

You always have a BATNA (Best Alternative to No Agreement)  This is true for all situations in life.  What if Daboll turned the job down or they had a snag in contract negotiations?

Edited February 2, 2022 by realtruelove

[IronyAbounds]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

It sounds like it’s not just a card in this instance.

 

The Giants interviewed him 3 days after already deciding on Daboll.

That is a complete sham.

It was a complete sham and that's a clear violation of the rule. There is no obligation that they hire a minority, just don't already hire someone and then conduct an interview that obviously was just an appearance to follow the rule. You also have to wonder why they picked Daboll, who has never been a head coach and has been the object of ridicule among many posters here without giving Flores, who made Miami respectable despite a POS owner a moment's thought. 

[dave mcbride]

41 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

Cause starting a season 0 and 7 and losing out of the playoffs last year is all unicorns and rainbows?

The miami roster in 2019 was without question the worst in the league with regard to talent. Pretending otherwise is just bias. The fact that he went 5-11 with a 1-15 team (talent-wise) and was competitive the entire second half of the season was good coaching, and everyone in the NFL knew it. Re: your line above, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[billieve420]

5 minutes ago, harryS said:

 

What if your boss asked you to cheat or steal?

Maybe he should have reported that to HR and the league if Ross allegedly did what he was claiming at the time it happened. There is a reason why companies have ethics training. Seems like he is trying to settle some scores and pass it off as him taking a stand for the betterment of everyone else. 
 

Will see what comes from this. Maybe he is paid to settle out of court. However, I have hard time seeing any organization wanting to deal with him in the future.

[Johnnycage46]

9 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Jerry Glanville Houston Oilers 1987-1989 went 28-19 and made playoffs each year. 

And Marty 04 to 06 with Chargers.  14-2 his last season.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, billieve420 said:

Maybe he should have reported that to HR and the league if Ross allegedly did what he was claiming at the time it happened. There is a reason why companies have ethics training. Seems like he is trying to settle some scores and pass it off as him taking a stand for the betterment of everyone else. 
 

Will see what comes from this. Maybe he is paid to settle out of court. However, I have hard time seeing any organization wanting to deal with him in the future.

Maybe he was concerned with the players on the team he was coaching and all of the assistants he hired and asked to move their families to Miami. Life is complicated.

[Nitro]

 Flores, by filing this suit, has ended his NFL career.  He could be right on these charges and my win but in the end he loses.  I still contend that the Rooney rule is a sham.   

[dave mcbride]

27 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Wah wah, my boss didn't like me because i didn't do what i was told. Guess what , thats jobs everywhere, you piss off the boss and you want be around long.

 

 

Barbs, I respect you as a poster, but you can do better than this. 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I think it means the Rooney Rule does more harm than good at this point.  I don’t really like Flores, but good for him for calling out the BS and going after these billionaire owners who think they can do whatever they want.  

“do whatever they want” as in hire the coach they want?  
 

The Ross stuff in Miami is certainly ridiculous, but if this is about the Giants coaching search… they abided by the Rooney Rule, perhaps seriously considered Flores as their 2nd option if Daboll falls through, and then ultimately hired their 1st choice.  

[billieve420]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Maybe he was concerned with the players on the team he was coaching and all of the assistants he hired and asked to move their families to Miami. Life is complicated.

From all reports out of Miami appears he was difficult to work with and had caused a lot of friction within the team and FO. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Just now, Nitro said:

 Flores, by filing this suit, has ended his NFL career.  He could be right on these charges and my win but in the end he loses.  I still contend that the Rooney rule is a sham.   

It’s proving to be just that. Clearly a tool for owners to hide behind when there’s 1 black head coach.  Well we’re giving them interviews at least.  

[The Frankish Reich]

Having read the complaint and the background, I've come to the conclusion that the most likely scenario is that everything Flores is saying is true. Oh sure, there's some things that are subject to interpretation (was Elway really nursing a hangover when he showed up an hour late to interview Flores?), but:

- Flores is only 40. He's not likely to sabotage his future NFL career over minor slights.

- His firing was always weird. He had finished strong, his players were obviously motivated to play for him, and Tua actually had a fine second half that restored his value. 

- I think everybody thought "the Dolphins must have some celebrity coach ready to go." A Harbaugh type. But now it seems like they didn't.

So ... did Ross actually try to get Flores to tank the season? Flores refused, Ross got pissed, fired him, and badmouthed him to the rest of the NFL owners' club?

I'm not sure what exactly precipitated the scorched earth lawsuit. Oh, I believe it is meritorious in a general sense (I really can't explain why we'd have only one black coach in these days), but it seems to me that Flores believed that his career had been destroyed by Ross even before the lawsuit. Flores seems angry (with cause), not insane.

[BuffaloBillyG]

18 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Still… and I don’t know how this operates normally… but is it normal to hire someone while they are still in the interviewing process? We know they interviewed Dabs and Frazier, they need 2 for RR I believe. Definitely smells like BS and glad Flores is sticking it to the NFL.

Agree.

[RiotAct]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Having read the complaint and the background, I've come to the conclusion that the most likely scenario is that everything Flores is saying is true. Oh sure, there's some things that are subject to interpretation (was Elway really nursing a hangover when he showed up an hour late to interview Flores?), but:

- Flores is only 40. He's not likely to sabotage his future NFL career over minor slights.

- His firing was always weird. He had finished strong, his players were obviously motivated to play for him, and Tua actually had a fine second half that restored his value. 

- I think everybody thought "the Dolphins must have some celebrity coach ready to go." A Harbaugh type. But now it seems like they didn't.

So ... did Ross actually try to get Flores to tank the season? Flores refused, Ross got pissed, fired him, and badmouthed him to the rest of the NFL owners' club?

I'm not sure what exactly precipitated the scorched earth lawsuit. Oh, I believe it is meritorious in a general sense (I really can't explain why we'd have only one black coach in these days), but it seems to me that Flores believed that his career had been destroyed by Ross even before the lawsuit. Flores seems angry (with cause), not insane.

I agree, with a lot of what you posted, I was pretty damn surprised when the Dolphins canned him last month.  I thought he earned another crack at it next year for sure with the way they finished.

[SCBills]

To those who think there’s legitimacy to the Flores/Giants lawsuit:

 

Should we launch an investigation into our hiring of Dorsey?

 

Pretty obvious we never were hiring Tee Martin if Dorsey accepted the contract offer.  
 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

19 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

So they set up a 2nd interview with a guy they weren’t impressed with after the first interview? Makes perfect sense.

What happens if the Giants settle on Daboll and Miami swoops in amd offers him an offer he can't refuse? Now they lost their choice. Always good too have 2nd or even 3rd fall back options. 

[JoPoy88]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

What happens if the Giants settle on Daboll and Miami swoops in amd offers him an offer he can't refuse? Now they lost their choice. Always good too have 2nd or even 3rd fall back options. 

So Flores was their 2nd (or 3rd) choice? After you just speculated he bombed his 1st interview. Again, makes perfect sense. You can stop now.

[ROCBillsBeliever]

6 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Sounds like the dolphins are going to get seriously sanctioned by the NFL.

 

What'll they do? Take more of their seemingly endless 1st round picks? 🙄

[IronyAbounds]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Having read the complaint and the background, I've come to the conclusion that the most likely scenario is that everything Flores is saying is true. Oh sure, there's some things that are subject to interpretation (was Elway really nursing a hangover when he showed up an hour late to interview Flores?), but:

- Flores is only 40. He's not likely to sabotage his future NFL career over minor slights.

- His firing was always weird. He had finished strong, his players were obviously motivated to play for him, and Tua actually had a fine second half that restored his value. 

- I think everybody thought "the Dolphins must have some celebrity coach ready to go." A Harbaugh type. But now it seems like they didn't.

So ... did Ross actually try to get Flores to tank the season? Flores refused, Ross got pissed, fired him, and badmouthed him to the rest of the NFL owners' club?

I'm not sure what exactly precipitated the scorched earth lawsuit. Oh, I believe it is meritorious in a general sense (I really can't explain why we'd have only one black coach in these days), but it seems to me that Flores believed that his career had been destroyed by Ross even before the lawsuit. Flores seems angry (with cause), not insane.

Consider Josh McDaniels. He bombed in Denver as a head coach, backed out at the last minute after a handshake deal in Indy in 2018, and yet he merits a head coaching job with the Raiders. Flores takes a disaster in Miami and makes then very competitive in just a couple years. Hard to argue that there isn't racism in NFL coaching hires when there is a lone black head coach and a relatively small percentage of assistant coaches.

[Nitro]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s proving to be just that. Clearly a tool for owners to hide behind when there’s 1 black head coach.  Well we’re giving them interviews at least.  

Only way this gets changed if an impartial third party observes these interviews. 

[Pecos Bills]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

To those who think there’s legitimacy to the Flores/Giants lawsuit:

 

Should we launch an investigation into our hiring of Dorsey?

 

Pretty obvious we never were hiring Tee Martin if Dorsey accepted the contract offer.  
 

 

There was a legitimate chance Dorsey would follow Daboll to NYG.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, JoPoy88 said:

So Flores was their 2nd (or 3rd) choice? After you just speculated he bombed his 1st interview. Again, makes perfect sense. You can stop now.

Well, being it's 100% speculation because I wasn't in the room I am raising plausible things that could be in play. Aside from repeating what I say and making a snide remark can you offer any proof my ideas are so ludicrous? Were you in the room? No? Do you have anything of value or intelligence to add? Again no? 

 

Sit down, pup. Grown ups are talking.

 

 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, BayBuck said:

There was a legitimate chance Dorsey would follow Daboll to NYG.

There was a legitimate chance, in NY’s eyes, Daboll goes elsewhere.   He didn’t just walk into the interview and immediately give away all his negotiating leverage by declaring his undying allegiance to only the NYG’s HC position. 

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Only way this gets changed if an impartial third party observes these interviews. 

Nope.  Rich old white guys gonna rich old white guy until it hurts them in the pocket book.  Which is exactly what Flores is trying to do.  Never particularly liked the guy, but good for Flores.  

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The miami roster in 2019 was without question the worst in the league with regard to talent. Pretending otherwise is just bias. The fact that he went 5-11 with a 1-15 team (talent-wise) and was competitive the entire second half of the season was good coaching, and everyone in the NFL knew it. Re: your line above, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

If the largest feather in your cap is getting a horrific football team to 5 wins 3 years ago, would you be mad teams weren't breaking your door down for an HC job?

[HalftimeAdjustment]

3 minutes ago, IronyAbounds said:

Consider Josh McDaniels. He bombed in Denver as a head coach, backed out at the last minute after a handshake deal in Indy in 2018, and yet he merits a head coaching job with the Raiders. Flores takes a disaster in Miami and makes then very competitive in just a couple years. Hard to argue that there isn't racism in NFL coaching hires when there is a lone black head coach and a relatively small percentage of assistant coaches.

 

This is a pretty solid example. The Schoen-Daboll connection was obvious and the Bills had just laid down a perfect offensive game. Daboll was clearly a "hot" candidate this year. But McDaniels... it's unusual he gets another shot after the 2 prior debacles as compared to others. At least on the surface, Frazier has more going for him than McDaniels and so does Flores (pre-lawsuit). The Raiders just got rid of Jon Gruden - who was no prize either - so this could be a bit of a "quacks like a duck" situation.