Brian Flores suing NFL, NY Giants, Dolphins, Broncos.

[dave mcbride]

18 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

From all reports out of Miami appears he was difficult to work with and had caused a lot of friction within the team and FO. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/10/absentee-ownership-directly-contributes-to-weird-outcomes-like-the-firing-of-brian-flores/

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

If the largest feather in your cap is getting a horrific football team to 5 wins 3 years ago, would you be mad teams weren't breaking your door down for an HC job?

What is your point? He took over a truly terrible team, and those were the facts on the ground that he dealt with. Please clarify, with specifics and a demonstration of knowledge of the 2019 Dolphins roster.

Edited February 2, 2022 by dave mcbride

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/10/absentee-ownership-directly-contributes-to-weird-outcomes-like-the-firing-of-brian-flores/

What is your point? He took over a truly terrible team, and those were the facts on the ground that he dealt with. Please clarify, with specifics.

Flores biggest red flag, to me, is the fact that two years in a row - with playoffs on the line - he gets straight up SMOKED. 

[Nitro]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Nope.  Rich old white guys gonna rich old white guy until it hurts them in the pocket book.  Which is exactly what Flores is trying to do.  Never particularly liked the guy, but good for Flores.  

The NFLPA can put leverage on the owners about this.  

[QLBillsFan]

29 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

How did Flores botch Tua any worse than McDermott botched Allen??? Allen could not have been in a worse situation his first two years. 

I agree he should have kept playing Fitz while they had a shot at the playoffs. Probably lost a fair amount of the locker room. But these guys are pros and everyone of them knows young QBs are going to struggle at times.

Well he picked Tua over Herbert so that didn’t help .

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/10/absentee-ownership-directly-contributes-to-weird-outcomes-like-the-firing-of-brian-flores/

What is your point? He took over a truly terrible team, and those were the facts on the ground that he dealt with. Please clarify, with specifics and a demonstration of knowledge of the 2019 Dolphins roster.

Awesome. He did a solid job in 2019.  Why would an owner not count 2020 and 2021?

[TheFunPolice]

What if a team was awarded a first round pick for hiring a GM or HC of color, and a second for a DC or OC?

 

Would that change the balance of these decisions? 

[QLBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Nope.  Rich old white guys gonna rich old white guy until it hurts them in the pocket book.  Which is exactly what Flores is trying to do.  Never particularly liked the guy, but good for Flores.  

But being forced to hire candidates based on race is good right ?

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Nitro said:

The NFLPA can put leverage on the owners about this.  

How?  You can’t force the owners to hire a black head coach.  Only thing you can do is what Flores is doing.  Hurt em in their bank account when you feel you ain’t getting a fair shake.  

[TheFunPolice]

So, if I'm reading this right Flores says that Daboll was willing to come be his OC in a lateral move?

 

 

[SCBills]

These teams that waited to hire their head coach probably wish they made their decision right about now..  Owners with vacancies about to get a call from Commissioner Roger Farrakhan. 

[billieve420]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Nope.  Rich old white guys gonna rich old white guy until it hurts them in the pocket book.  Which is exactly what Flores is trying to do.  Never particularly liked the guy, but good for Flores.  

Ross is white and hired a black GM Grier and HC in Flores. Could it be that Schoen had ties to Daboll and that familiarity helped him get hired. It is not a cut and dry case. 

[TheFunPolice]

In other words, Flores was going to go into a HC position with an OC he wanted (Daboll) yet he would have to conduct some "sham interviews" of his own since the Rooney Rule applies to coordinators as well.

 

Maybe Flores is just a guy who creates friction and drama

Edited February 2, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Nitro]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

How?  You can’t force the owners to hire a black head coach.  Only thing you can do is what Flores is doing.  Hurt em in their bank account when you feel you ain’t getting a fair shake.  

I was in a union.  Rank and file can move management to change.  Specially when it is good for business.  

[billieve420]

10 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Well he picked Tua over Herbert so that didn’t help .

Apparently Flores wanted Herbert. There was also this report. There was some rift between Flores and Grier my guess mainly over the QB and Ross stuck with his GM.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/nfl-rumors-did-brian-flores-tell-tua-tagovailoa-hed-rather-have-mac-jones

Edited February 2, 2022 by billieve420

[Fan boy '92]

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/02/01/bill-belichick-accidental-text-message-brian-flores-racial-discrimination-lawsuit-giants-brian-daboll-hiring/

 

The accidental text... on purpose.

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

Ross is white and hired a black GM Grier and HC in Flores. Could it be that Schoen had ties to Daboll and that familiarity helped him get hired. It is not a cut and dry case. 

It’s not cut and dry, but how likely is it that 31 head coaching jobs (minus Belichik because he was pre-rooney rule) have had to interview a black candidate and only 1 of those 31 jobs currently have a black head coach.  The Rooney Rule is a joke.  And the NFL is gonna have to fork over a ton of money.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

How many young black offensive coaches are there? That seems to be where the issues are. Most black offensive coaches are WR or RB coaches. I remember Pep Hamilton a long time ago was very highly thought of, never got a chance like some of the young white offensive coaches.

 

Who are those guys today? Byron Leftwich? How come there aren't more young black assistant offensive coaches getting jobs coaching QBs and becoming offensive coordinators?

 

Who are the Sean McVays, Zac Taylors of the black coaches. Are there any? Bills gave Tee Martin an interview for OC. I think once these guys start getting OC jobs there will be more black head coaches.

 

We do see young black defensive coaches get head coach jobs. It'll start happening soon on the offensive side. 

[The Frankish Reich]

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He took over a truly terrible team, and those were the facts on the ground that he dealt with. Please clarify, with specifics and a demonstration of knowledge of the 2019 Dolphins roster.

Is he a good head coach? I don't know for sure. But by the way we usually rate head coaches he would be considered good:

- did his teams outperform or underperform their true talent level? Flores wins on this one. He got the 2019 job and the Dolphins promptly traded away most of their decent players. And he certainly doesn't have top personnel now, yet his team finished very strongly but for that Titans game, and the Titans were ultimately the top seeded playoff team

- did his teams show improvement over his tenure? Definitely

- did he appear able to motivate his players, even under difficult circumstances? Absolutely

 

Now there may have been an unspoken Dolphins Ross Rule: thou shalt tank when the owner wants you to tank. On that one, Flores was an epic failure.

[Einstein]

Does it bother anyone else that our Offensive Coordinator had (at least on some level) a texting relationship with a divisional opponents head coach?

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Does it bother anyone else that our Offensive Coordinator had (at least on some level) a texting relationship with a divisional opponents head coach?

 

 

 

 

 

No. Why would it?

[bobobonators]

This is a nuanced topic. Im against someone being hired bc of their

race as much as im opposed to someone being rejected bc of their race. 
 

I think we can all agree the NFL has a problem. The majority of players are black. The vast majority of coaches are white. All the owners are white. Im pretty good at math and that doesnt add up properly. 

Forget about discussing the owners being white - thats too obvious and beyond the realm of fixable. 
 

As for the coaches being white…logic and reason would suggest some of the best candidates to coach a team are those who have been around the game. Logic follows players are around the game. Following that logic most NFL coaches have played football either in the NFL or in college at some point, regardless of how good they were - they played. Awesome. Logic is flowing so far.
 

A very good portion of NCAA football players are black. The overwhelming majority of NFL players are black. Nevertheless, the overwhelming majority of HC and coaching assistants are NOT black. Logic and reason are now broken. We have a problem. 
 

Are former black football players simply not interested in coaching? I dunno. Theres no point in lying to each other. I think if we have an honest conversation we can admit somewhere along the chain there is a serious problem. The question is how do we fix it. Im not sure the Rooney rule is the solution. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by bobobonators

[major]

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Congress is going to get involved if this isn't retracted quickly - you can't have an owner of an antitrust-exempt business, on which betting is now legal, paying coaches to lose.  This is EPIC.

💣

[wppete]

23 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

So, if I'm reading this right Flores says that Daboll was willing to come be his OC in a lateral move?

 

 

That is laughable. There is no way Dabol would’ve left Josh Allen for a lateral move and risking his chances at a future HC job with Tua and Flores who is clearly a head-case.  

[billieve420]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s not cut and dry, but how likely is it that 31 head coaching jobs (minus Belichik because he was pre-rooney rule) have had to interview a black candidate and only 1 of those 31 jobs currently have a black head coach.  The Rooney Rule is a joke.  And the NFL is gonna have to fork over a ton of money.  

Maybe all things being equal majority of owners and GMs which are white are going to hire people they relate to in a lot of instances. Until you start seeing more diversity at top starting with owners there will always be some discrepancy. However, life isn’t fair and even then doesn’t guarantee anything. Shad Khan is a non white owner and none of his hires so far have included a minority coach.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

That is laughable. There is no way Dabol would’ve left Josh Allen for a lateral move and risking his chances at a future HC job with Tua and Flores who is clearly a head-case.  

 

How could Flores know who he wanted for his OC without complying with the Rooney Rule and giving everyone a fair shake?

[major]

6 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

take em all down flores. expose these the nfl for what it is.

Hope Goodell gets canned too

[Warcodered]

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Belichick changed his contacts to Black Brian and White Brian. Won't happen again.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

Klis has a series of tweets basically claiming that Flores claims about his Broncos interview are FOS.

 

 

 

 

One of the comments:

 

Another:

 

[major]

What if - and believe me this is hypothetical - but if you were offered $100,000 to tank a game by an owner, how much do you think a serious gambler would be willing to pay you to lose a game, throw an interception, fumble a ball, etc.  Would that do anything for you? #officespace

 

Seriously, this rabbit hole has the potential to open up all kind of dirty laundry. All

thanks to Bill Belicheat and technology (how poetic)

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Pretty obvious we never were hiring Tee Martin if Dorsey accepted the contract offer.  
 

 

 

As evidenced by........what?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

For those who don't know, Florio is pretty well qualified to speak on topics like this. He is an attorney, and his specialty was employment law.

 

[TheFunPolice]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

For those who don't know, Florio is pretty well qualified to speak on topics like this. He is an attorney, and his specialty was employment law.

 

 

And he LOVES negative stories about the NFL.

 

Maybe Flores is telling the truth, and his own hiring practices and treatment of players was due to what he thought was best 

 

Here's a question for Flores: how many co- offensive coordinators are there in the NFL? I wonder how Studesville felt about being essentially told he didn't deserve a shot to truly run an offense?

 

Easy to question others but when it came time to decide who to stake his career to Flores didn't seem overly concerned about diversity in his staff.

 

Now we're supposed to say how brave he is? No brave would be to take a stand and hire a black OC and DC.

 

Prove a point. There's tons of highly qualified guys. And God knows he chewed through staff so he made plenty of hires. So what gives? 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Cruiserplayer]

Wonder if Flores reported the 1.1 million dollar cash bonus he received? Now that could be trouble.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

And he LOVES negative stories about the NFL.

 

Maybe Flores is telling the truth, and his own hiring practices and treatment of players was due to what he thought was best 

 

Here's a question for Flores: how many co& offensive coordinators are there in the NFL? I wonder how Studesville felt about being essentially told he didn't deserve a shot to truly run an offense

Not just NFL, college football. A lot of coaches work their way up. We just rarely see young black offensive coaches get QB coach and OC jobs.

 

 

[Augie]

42 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Does it bother anyone else that our Offensive Coordinator had (at least on some level) a texting relationship with a divisional opponents head coach?

 

 

 

 

 

No. They are adults. 

[Victory Formation]

I don’t know how this is going to end up, but my heart breaks for Flores. I think he’s a very good coach and I’ve had nothing but love and respect for him because of the way he played the Patriots for all those years down in Miami. Ultimately this is a guy that I was hoping would replace Frazier, so at this point I just really feel bad for him and I hope he lands somewhere. God bless him. 🙏

[PolishPrince]

41 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

This is a nuanced topic. Im against someone being hired bc of their

race as much as im opposed to someone being rejected bc of their race. 
 

I think we can all agree the NFL has a problem. The majority of players are black. The vast majority of coaches are white. All the owners are white. Im pretty good at math and that doesnt add up properly. 

Forget about discussing the owners being white - thats too obvious and beyond the realm of fixable. 
 

As for the coaches being white…logic and reason would suggest some of the best candidates to coach a team are those who have been around the game. Logic follows players are around the game. Following that logic most NFL coaches have played football either in the NFL or in college at some point, regardless of how good they were - they played. Awesome. Logic is flowing so far.
 

A very good portion of NCAA football players are black. The overwhelming majority of NFL players are black. Nevertheless, the overwhelming majority of HC and coaching assistants are NOT black. Logic and reason are now broken. We have a problem. 
 

Are former black football players simply not interested in coaching? I dunno. Theres no point in lying to each other. I think if we have an honest conversation we can admit somewhere along the chain there is a serious problem. The question is how do we fix it. Im not sure the Rooney rule is the solution. 

This is such a bad argument. Why does it have to be even ratios of race on white to black? I would argue most coaches did not play very long because they simply werent that good, but loved the game - so they transitioned to the coaching side early in their career instead of being banged up and battered for a decade or more on the field. Nothing wrong with this, just saying maybe a player is more "done" after getting beaten up so long.

 

What NFL head coaches were long time players? I can think of Reich and Vrabel, not like I have an extensive knowledge of all the coaches playing careers. Most coaches, Belicheck, Reid, Carroll, Arians, McDermott, Tomlin...even up and coming coordinators and coaches like Dorsey, Kellen Moore had short careers that did basically nothing after college. Look at the new young coaches, Shannahan, McVay, Bengals Zack whatever, Stefanski. They are young coaches because they pretty much went straight into coaching rather than pursue playing.

 

Maybe Byron Leftwhich gets his shot soon? But the argument I see "well players are this, so coaches should be equal ratio or close" is kind of flat imo. Should a woman never get a head coach or coordinator job? No females currently are in the NFL.

 

The part maybe we should ask is why collegiate black players who arent expected to make it at NFL level dont seem to turn to coaching early as much? 

 

While typing this I started looking up recent black head coaches, I know Leslie Frazier played. David Culley went into coaching right out of college. Marvin Lewis same thing... BRIAN FLORES (injury prevented him from NFL so he went to coaching). Robert Saleh, Jim Caldwell, Hugh Jackson.

Edited February 2, 2022 by PolishPrince

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Not sure if this has been posted already upthread or not, but some contra voices from minority coaches are being heard on this as well, fwiw:

https://sports.yahoo.com/detroit-lions-assistant-coach-duce-025937983.html

[Just Jack]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

Does it bother anyone else that our Offensive Coordinator had (at least on some level) a texting relationship with a divisional opponents head coach?

 

Nope, Daboll worked for Belichick from 2000-2006, and 2013-2016. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Just Jack