Week 12: Bills at Saints on Thanksgiving

[RoyBatty is alive]

So I believe Edmunds is set to play, that will certainly help.

 

I know a lot of the season is still ahead of us and we are in the playoff hunt but I think this is close to a "must win" game for this team.  They lose 3 out of 4, two of which were in horrid fashion, this team could spiral down the drain rapidly.

Edited November 23, 2021 by RoyBatty is alive

[Bob in STL]

9 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

So I believe Edmunds is set to play, that will certainly help.

 

I know a lot of the season is still ahead of us and we are in the playoff hunt but I think this is close to a "must win" game for this team.  The lose 3 out of 4, two of which we in horrid fashion, this team could spiral down the drain rapidly.

Win the next 2 and things swing the other way.   Let’s see what they are made of.  

[Hebert19]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Why not just let McKenzie be that guy and have Stevenson just handle the return duties? Get McKenzie back in the offense like he used to be 

This please!!

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Jpsredemption]

Prediction: bed by halftime. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Similar to Newton with the Panthers…. Dude carried that offense as well…. The regime is too defense centric, it’s been the concern since McDs first year here and it’s reared it’s head again. 

 

 

I think what has been concerning is that you want a HC who specializes in one side of the ball to be able to invest a little less on that side and get results.   

 

Instead.........4 of 6 first rounders expended on defense and a very expensive DL and a back 7 with 5 guys under relatively big dollar contracts and 1 of the two who is not is Edmunds who has a massive 5th year cap it coming.

 

That investment seems reasonable when the defense is forcing 3 and outs and getting turnovers...........but recent history has proven that it's very difficult to maintain a top defense from year to year.    It's something of a black hole investment-wise.   We saw that last year when the defense was middling at best after a strong finish the season prior.   

 

To me.........the Bills plan has looked a little too much like the Green Bay Packers blueprint.........stock the defense with 1st rounders and let the all-world QB figure the rest out.   But the problem is that the Packers don't have a team like New England in their division.    In a season where Rodgers doesn't get hurt and miss time they usually take that division by default.   

[Cantankeous]

NFL just announced Bills/Panthers game will be played on Sunday 1pm -meaning we suck and they don’t want it televised nationally..

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

3 minutes ago, Cantankeous said:

NFL just announced Bills/Panthers game will be played on Sunday 1pm -meaning we suck and they don’t want it televised nationally..

Good my preference anyway

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

To me.........the Bills plan has looked a little too much like the Green Bay Packers blueprint.........stock the defense with 1st rounders and let the all-world QB figure the rest out.   But the problem is that the Packers don't have a team like New England in their division.    In a season where Rodgers doesn't get hurt and miss time they usually take that division by default.   

To be fair....

The Bills didn't ignore the offense in the way you're suggesting.

After Josh's rookie season, Beane made it a significant priority to upgrade the offensive line. He spent big money on a good center and signed a bunch of guards as well. He also handed out decent contracts to Cole Beasley and John Brown and spent 3rd round picks on a running back and a tight end.

The following offseason, Beane traded SIGNIFICANT capital for a star receiver, spent a 3rd round pick on another running back and a 4th round pick on a receiver. 

The offseason after that, Beane signed a WR2 in free agency and spent 3rd and 5th round picks on offensive tackles.

It's totally reasonable to point out that Beane could and should have done more on the offensive line or at running back, or that you wish they'd spend more 1st round picks on offensive players...but to say that they've been ignoring the offense and that their plan is to just "let the all-world QB figure the rest out" is simply not accurate. They've put quite a lot of effort and free agency money and draft capital (via Diggs trade and other moves mentioned above) into the offense. And lest we forget, said offense has been a top five scoring unit for the majority of the season, recent struggles notwithstanding.

 

[OZBILLS]

10 minutes ago, Cantankeous said:

NFL just announced Bills/Panthers game will be played on Sunday 1pm -meaning we suck and they don’t want it televised nationally..

Fair enough. I wouldn't watch us

[reddogblitz]

12 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Good post. I see nothing that gives me hope the Bills dline can effectively stop the Saints run game. I have little faith the Bills Oline can stop Allen from killing killed. Haven't we seen this before? Titans, Colts, and Jags to a certain extent. Anyone have any ideas besides saying or blindly predicting a Bills win? 

Wow. Are you upset? 

 

I see something.

 

A couple of times in the McDermott/Frazier era our run D has gotten so bad we couldn't stop anyone.  Saints game in 2017 was one. Coach McDermott and Coach Frazier put their collective heads together and were able to fix it and we made the playoffs. A similar thing happened in 2019.  I don't see why it won't happen again this year.

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Found it funny McD stated in his post game presser they need to fix the offense after the defense got absolutely annihilated…

 

He needs to fix both.

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Even if the Bills beat the Saints it's another mirage until the inevitable happens on national TV on MNF....and pretty sure most fans know what I'm talking about so don't need to describe it in detail here.

You are just such a ray of sunshine, aren't you?    Can we just take one game at a time?

[Low Positive]

We've been told for years that this is a "passing league," but now this year so many of the contending teams have crap QBs and just run the ball down all the time. Ryan f-ing Tannehill has a good chance to play in the SB against Mathew Stafford. It feels like the NFL has shifted back to the 80's.

[BuffaloBillyG]

26 minutes ago, Cantankeous said:

NFL just announced Bills/Panthers game will be played on Sunday 1pm -meaning we suck and they don’t want it televised nationally..

Would have thought they would have loved to get Cam back in Carolina in the spotlight. Their losses though...I think this is going to be a really good game.

[Arkady Renko]

Do I read this right?  We haven't beaten the Saints since 1992 (the Bobby Hebert era)?

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, Logic said:

To be fair....

The Bills didn't ignore the offense in the way you're suggesting.

After Josh's rookie season, Beane made it a significant priority to upgrade the offensive line. He spent big money on a good center and signed a bunch of guards as well. He also handed out decent contracts to Cole Beasley and John Brown and spent 3rd round picks on a running back and a tight end.

The following offseason, Beane traded SIGNIFICANT capital for a star receiver, spent a 3rd round pick on another running back and a 4th round pick on a receiver. 

The offseason after that, Beane signed a WR2 in free agency and spent 3rd and 5th round picks on offensive tackles.

It's totally reasonable to point out that Beane could and should have done more on the offensive line or at running back, or that you wish they'd spend more 1st round picks on offensive players...but to say that they've been ignoring the offense and that their plan is to just "let the all-world QB figure the rest out" is simply not accurate. They've put quite a lot of effort and free agency money and draft capital (via Diggs trade and other moves mentioned above) into the offense. And lest we forget, said offense has been a top five scoring unit for the majority of the season, recent struggles notwithstanding.

 

 

Well to actually be fair.........I didn't say it was exactly like the Packers approach I said that it looked "too much" like it.   Important distinction.  

 

And keep in mind.......Allen wasn't a star QB until last season.   The Packers have always had top QB play in the 17 years that Rodgers has been in the league.

 

The Bills felt they had to prop Allen up with the Diggs trade because they hadn't been able to draft a WR1 of their own.    The Pack got Davante Adams with about the same value of selection in 2014 that the Bills used on bust Zay Jones in 2017........passing Cooper Kupp among others.    And Beane himself passed on Metcalf and AJ Brown in favor of Cody Ford.   They were playing organizational catch-up trading for Diggs.

 

 

  

Edited November 23, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[YoloinOhio]

Haha

 

[corta765]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

To be fair....

The Bills didn't ignore the offense in the way you're suggesting.

After Josh's rookie season, Beane made it a significant priority to upgrade the offensive line. He spent big money on a good center and signed a bunch of guards as well. He also handed out decent contracts to Cole Beasley and John Brown and spent 3rd round picks on a running back and a tight end.

The following offseason, Beane traded SIGNIFICANT capital for a star receiver, spent a 3rd round pick on another running back and a 4th round pick on a receiver. 

The offseason after that, Beane signed a WR2 in free agency and spent 3rd and 5th round picks on offensive tackles.

It's totally reasonable to point out that Beane could and should have done more on the offensive line or at running back, or that you wish they'd spend more 1st round picks on offensive players...but to say that they've been ignoring the offense and that their plan is to just "let the all-world QB figure the rest out" is simply not accurate. They've put quite a lot of effort and free agency money and draft capital (via Diggs trade and other moves mentioned above) into the offense. And lest we forget, said offense has been a top five scoring unit for the majority of the season, recent struggles notwithstanding.

 

This is a good take. I would add last year Beane was GM of the year and could do no wrong. Realistically you do not bat 1000 all the time, the Bills have had a lot of successful additions in the draft in free agency since they both arrived. This may be the first year in five I would say the additions have not panned out the way we all hoped and that is while acknowledging Sanders has been pretty good, Spencer Brown apparently is the key to everything (so good draft there), and the guys resigned were people we would not wanted to have lost (Milano).

 

Now am I happy that it seems to be going sideways with this years group? Well no especially because an true difference maker up front pass rush wise and another O lineman for depth and I think they are 8-2 maybe 9-1. Matt Judon who of course went to NE was a guy I honestly wish we had to give more bite up front, I would've sacrificed Sanders for him salary wise. But flipside is maybe long term Boogie and Groot develop and the Bills have bookend DE's for 7-10 years. You do what you can and Beane/crew probably could've done a lot worse offseason wise just sometimes the chips do fall against you.

[ytownblofan]

Seeing Rumors start to trickle out on Twitter that Kamara, Ingram, Ramczyk, and Davenport did not practice today.

 

LT Terron Armstead returned to practice - not sure if it was a LP or FP

Edited November 23, 2021 by ytownblofan

[Low Positive]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Haha

 

That's funny, but a lot of guys who go into broadcasting after they retire will go out of their way to criticize their former team so as to not appear as a homer. The classic example of this was Reggie Miller on TNT, who has nothing good to say about the Pacers even when they are playing well.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[freddyjj]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The hype of a 6th round draft pick reminds me of the Jauron days….

Just for perspective

 

Tyreek Hill

No. 10 – Kansas City Chiefs

College:West Alabama

NFL Draft:2016 / Round: 5 / Pick: 165

[PromoTheRobot]

 

[transplantbillsfan]

33 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

I didn't understand the TBA designation... why was that there?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Who would even be running the ball for them in this case? 

[Hebert19]

Ingram will play.  Doubt Kamara will though.  Pushing him back with no practice on a short week seeks like it's a stretch. 

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Similar to Newton with the Panthers…. Dude carried that offense as well…. The regime is too defense centric, it’s been the concern since McDs first year here and it’s reared it’s head again. 

Enh ... that 2013 team that went 12-4 and established them as a real power had a bunch of first rounders on offense: Greg Olsen, both running backs (Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams) and Jordan Gross. Plus they had a superstar receiver who retrospectively would have been a top 15 pick if there was a do-over draft (similar to Diggs): Steve Smith. 

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Who would even be running the ball for them in this case? 

Some guy I never heard of but just claimed in fantasy 

 

sorry Bills D - prove me wrong! 😜

[DapperCam]

Kind of feel like we’re going to smoke these guys. It may all be fools gold though.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Some guy I never heard of but just claimed in fantasy 

 

sorry Bills D - prove me wrong! 😜

I'm sure you're not alone. Saints RB probably has gotten popular in fantasy recently

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

2 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Kind of feel like we’re going to smoke these guys. It may all be fools gold though.

This team needs to find a way to win this game. Just to gain a reset for 11 days. Sitting with another loss for that time would be unbelievable torture and the season will be over before December. Which would absolutely be inexcusable 

[ytownblofan]

[Stank_Nasty]

11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Some guy I never heard of but just claimed in fantasy 

 

sorry Bills D - prove me wrong! 😜

thats sorta what i was getting at. lolol.... i own kamara and ingram in 2 leagues.

[Logic]

13 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

This team needs to find a way to win this game. Just to gain a reset for 11 days. Sitting with another loss for that time would be unbelievable torture and the season will be over before December. Which would absolutely be inexcusable 

Yep. Just find a way.

Star and Brown are out? Don't care.

We're likely facing a team with Trevor Siemian at QB, no discernable threat at running back, and a defense that has been getting burned early and often the past few weeks. No excuses.

Beat the Saints, get some key guys back for the Patriots game, and go win a primetime game at home, and we're back in business at 8-4 and with a division lead.

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yep. Just find a way.

Star and Brown are out? Don't care.

We're likely facing a team with Trevor Siemian at QB, no discernable threat at running back, and a defense that has been getting burned early and often the past few weeks. No excuses.

Beat the Saints, get some key guys back for the Patriots game, and go win a primetime game at home, and we're back in business at 8-4 and with a division lead.

Given the injury situation for the two teams, the Bills have no business losing this game. I did not expect to beat the Colts, and I can be overly pessimistic in the run-up to games, but I think they win this one with ease if they take care of the football.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, SWATeam said:

IMO, offense is more of the issue.  Our D is built to be elite at defending the pass to compliment our explosive offense that should have teams chasing points.  When our O is not working, it allows teams to be content pounding us on the ground.

 

The Colts were going to try to pound us on the ground no matter what happened.  And if what you say is true then how did we lose to TN?  This was a game our offense went up and down the field and scored 31 points.  Yet the defense could not protect multiple Buffalo leads in that game.

 

BTW, if our D is built for defending the pass as teams try to catch up why did we not take the ball to start the game Sunday? It seems to me that if we got up 7 - 0 and then stopped the Cots and stretched the lead to 10 or even 14 - 0 then we might have forced Wentz into an error as the Colts tried to catch up.

[CNYfan]

52 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Kind of feel like we’re going to smoke these guys. It may all be fools gold though.

Don't feel that way.  It has proven to be very disappointing time and time again.

[SWATeam]

38 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The Colts were going to try to pound us on the ground no matter what happened.  And if what you say is true then how did we lose to TN?  This was a game our offense went up and down the field and scored 31 points.  Yet the defense could not protect multiple Buffalo leads in that game.

 

BTW, if our D is built for defending the pass as teams try to catch up why did we not take the ball to start the game Sunday? It seems to me that if we got up 7 - 0 and then stopped the Cots and stretched the lead to 10 or even 14 - 0 then we might have forced Wentz into an error as the Colts tried to catch up.

I think that's a great point and we should do that.  Teams get so caught up on the concept of the "double dip", but we would benefit more from trying to dictate game play from the start- like in the scenario you laid out.

[Nihilarian]

Man, good thing the Bills D stayed in nickle D as they really shut down Carson Wentz...